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Post by blatantfowl on Jan 23, 2018 20:41:39 GMT
And there is the crux of what I am getting at. It's not a results business, its a staying in business business. Our position in the league as little effect on income. Gate receipts are less and less important as it costs more and more to police a game. We make more from the TV deal than we do from fans going through the turnstile on match-days. I wonder if one day a club might declare that it is cheaper to play the game behind closed doors, fulfill their league obligations and rely on the TV money. If fans through the gates mattered that much, MK Dons would have gone out of business not long after getting franchised. Only promotion and relegation has a marked effect on revenue and even then it is more important to be flexible enough to cut your cloth accordingly and stay in business. Clubs don't disappear by getting relegated. They disappear when they go out of business. It isn't so long ago that QPR almost went down the tubes and it wasn't because we got relegated, it was because we overspent. As for the manger longevity, it isn't a thing of the past either - it's never been a thing and I would like QPR to buck the trend and make it a thing! Off the top of my head I can only think of Alex Ferguson, Arsene Wenger, Dario Gradi, Alan Curbishley, John Lyall and Gareth Ainsworth who have had a long tenure of several years in position at a single club. Half a dozen I can think of in the last 30 years or so of football! The average time a manager gets at a club may have shortened a little recently, but they've never had long. What is it about Wycombe Wanderers fans that mean their aspirations are tethered realistically while there are some of our fans that yearn to stretch our ambition to the point that we risk the very existence of the club? The Wild Thing's win ratio was pretty low (33%) and they finished well in the bottom half. They stuck with him and he has improved their fortunes (win ratio now over 40%) and kept them stable even if they are still in league 2. Is it so crazy to do this at QPR and that Holloway might be the man to do it? Can you see the sense in what I am saying on some level. You love stats so you might love the Wycombe example I have given maybe?!?! And now cheap shots that Holloway is definitely the man to lead us into League 2! Yes blatant, course I see what your saying and agree with most of it. Im not that influenced by stats, stats are stats and can be put for and against arguments in most instances. Whilst that list of Managers is comprihendable you know when Wenger goes that won’t happen again as it didn’t at Crewe, West Ham, Man Utd etc, sad but true. Curbishley did well at Charlton, then vanished off the face of the earth in terms of management, nobody would employ him. Even a Manager that achieved that for Charlton, most strange. Every QPR fan wants our Manager to stay for years but deep down its very unlikely. Wycombe is a good example I agree but a bit of rarity I feel. Very happy for Wild thing though. Hang on though, where did you get that Holloway is taking us to League Two. I have said I’m concerned and MIGHT take us down to Div 1 and still feel this was as we are so unpredictable. I certainly haven’t stated we are heading to League 2 though, I think our owners would act before that anyway If IH can stick it out stay with us 2-3 years or more and improve us I am all for it but at the minute without quoting stats just the League Tables points it isn’t really changing much that’s it really. Certainly take on board all your points though Blatant. Sorry Harr, the "cheap shots" thing was a typo - I meant to say "no cheap shots" instead of "now cheap shots" - was just trying to be funny!
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Post by blatantfowl on Jan 23, 2018 20:23:56 GMT
Dario Gradi was great, sadly footballs changed and that’s a thing of the past now. Managers longevity is generally only a couple of years , its a results business. And there is the crux of what I am getting at. It's not a results business, its a staying in business business. Our position in the league as little effect on income. Gate receipts are less and less important as it costs more and more to police a game. We make more from the TV deal than we do from fans going through the turnstile on match-days. I wonder if one day a club might declare that it is cheaper to play the game behind closed doors, fulfill their league obligations and rely on the TV money. If fans through the gates mattered that much, MK Dons would have gone out of business not long after getting franchised. Only promotion and relegation has a marked effect on revenue and even then it is more important to be flexible enough to cut your cloth accordingly and stay in business. Clubs don't disappear by getting relegated. They disappear when they go out of business. It isn't so long ago that QPR almost went down the tubes and it wasn't because we got relegated, it was because we overspent. As for the manger longevity, it isn't a thing of the past either - it's never been a thing and I would like QPR to buck the trend and make it a thing! Off the top of my head I can only think of Alex Ferguson, Arsene Wenger, Dario Gradi, Alan Curbishley, John Lyall and Gareth Ainsworth who have had a long tenure of several years in position at a single club. Half a dozen I can think of in the last 30 years or so of football! The average time a manager gets at a club may have shortened a little recently, but they've never had long. What is it about Wycombe Wanderers fans that mean their aspirations are tethered realistically while there are some of our fans that yearn to stretch our ambition to the point that we risk the very existence of the club? The Wild Thing's win ratio was pretty low (33%) in his first season (Holloway's is not far off that now) and they finished well in the bottom half. They stuck with him and he has improved their fortunes (win ratio now over 40%) and kept them stable even if they are still in league 2. Is it so crazy to do this at QPR and that Holloway might be the man to do it? Can you see the sense in what I am saying on some level? After all, you love stats so you might love the Wycombe example I have given maybe?!?! And no cheap shots that Holloway is definitely the man to lead us into League 2 please!
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Post by blatantfowl on Jan 23, 2018 19:34:59 GMT
It's become the thing on this board to say it's great we're "going for youth", "giving the youngsters a chance" and "bringing on our youth" rather than spending money to bring in proven players. I think if the dire FFP situation we are told we find ourselves in is to be believed then FFP has caused this move because we can't do anything else. In the last few weeks we've got shot of a heap of our youngsters and if those ITK are to be believed we will be getting rid of a whole heap more in the coming days. That in my book isn't bringing the youngsters on, it's us taking a gamble on a sh1t load of kids to see if the odd one could make their way into a Championship team. This is a recipe for getting us into League 1 or 2 if we're not careful IMO. We've gone from one extreme to another rather than a mixture of bringing on youth and buying in some proven players. Lessons learned. I don't think so. We have let some youngsters go who weren't cutting it. I think in the first team squad we still have a decent level of experience and with some youth on the fringes. Just how it should be.
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Post by blatantfowl on Jan 22, 2018 17:33:53 GMT
Always spoke knowledgeably when I heard him on the radio. He was an old fella then but still knew his stuff. RIP.
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Post by blatantfowl on Jan 22, 2018 17:30:13 GMT
A decision to change managers would be made in light of the available resources. We have no idea whether this current squad is working at the limit of their capabilities. Assuming better players would be needed to improve the squad and that better players require more resources to buy and retain then instead of an improvement in our fortunes we could be looking at sealing our fate by changing managers. I have a perception that Holloway is better than most at operating within limited means. Possibly? Was he not operating within limited means at Millwall though ? Yes and also at Blackpool and oh yeah...us last time round!Why do we not know if the squad is working to there capabilities, they should be. Because players improve when you coach them, otherwise what's the point? They can also be in or out of form or carrying an injury or like Caulker not in the right mindset to contribute. All basic and obvious variables that mean a competent coach still cannot produce the desired results.So say that FFP takes another 2 years to sort out, we stick with IH for that period whatever position we find ourselves in. Sounds like the ideal job have to me. That depends on whether you see value in keeping with a manager for the long run and giving them time with the ultimate example being Dario Gradi who went through several ups and downs at Crewe but was admired pretty much across the board. I think our destiny lies in being a self sufficient club that will generate talent, sometimes sell it, sometimes get promoted and sometimes relegated. Answers above
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Post by blatantfowl on Jan 22, 2018 14:30:45 GMT
My feeling is that before sacking a manager the club has to be unhappy with him over a period of time - ie, no knee-jerk reaction to one or two poor results. On a 'Happiness with Holloway' scale of 0-100%, I'd say if he reached 35% or lower over a period of a couple of months he should go. I've been fluctuating between 45-65% in the last couple of months - by no means perfect, but (mostly) doing acceptably under trying conditions. I’ve really given up with the idea of a change now this season but have to say if we stay up by three points again this season with Team HolBirch would we want to risk it again. I would have to say if we avoid relegation again by a couple of points or so, my answer would be I would preferably not risk it again. The law of averages says if you keep hovering around there sooner or later you go. If we see a really strong end to the season, finish around 60 points you could possibly warrant it but I don’t see this happening at all. At the minute see us finishing with 50-54 max, possibly even lower than last year. A decision to change managers would be made in light of the available resources. We have no idea whether this current squad is working at the limit of their capabilities. Assuming better players would be needed to improve the squad and that better players require more resources to buy and retain then instead of an improvement in our fortunes we could be looking at sealing our fate by changing managers. I have a perception that Holloway is better than most at operating within limited means.
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Post by blatantfowl on Jan 22, 2018 13:07:41 GMT
Brizzle 2 QPR 0
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Post by blatantfowl on Jan 20, 2018 14:49:17 GMT
We don’t need another striker. Item will score today and Smyth will return from injury soon. Give a youngster a run in the team.
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Post by blatantfowl on Jan 18, 2018 10:23:24 GMT
I was linesman for my lads game at the weekend. I zoned out for a moment and missed a simple throw in then got grief from one of the managers. It's not the first time I have had to tell someone to pipe down and this is just at a kids game! None of the other parents will run the line and out a combination of apathy, lack of fitness and the stress of getting heckled by arsey spectators. If you've never been a ref or a linesman it is actually more difficult than it looks and no one should criticize unless they have done it! I agree with most of that - as I said above the decision in the Leicester match was so close the linesman had an near impossible chance and cannot be criticised for it. I do not think that VAR is there to criticise officials but to try to help them.
However we have in the past seen some terrible howlers by professional refs and linesmen for which they should rightly be criticised so if VAR helps to correct those decisions it should decrease the criticism of the officials as in the end the right decision will be made - in theory although the Chelsea incident last night brings that into question. Still early days so we need to see VAR in action for a while before passing judgement
Yeah fair point, officials are paid to carry out the role after all and I am not. My own personal experience was just fresh in my mind! So obvious cockups ought to be challenged just the same as if any paid professional does a bad job. I guess my point is that those occurrences are in the minority and are vastly outweighed by the unrealistic expectations and often vile abuse of some spectators. But I am get away from the point of this thread which is VAR
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Post by blatantfowl on Jan 17, 2018 21:02:17 GMT
I was linesman for my lads game at the weekend. I zoned out for a moment and missed a simple throw in then got grief from one of the managers. It's not the first time I have had to tell someone to pipe down and this is just at a kids game! None of the other parents will run the line and out a combination of apathy, lack of fitness and the stress of getting heckled by arsey spectators.
If you've never been a ref or a linesman it is actually more difficult than it looks and no one should criticize unless they have done it!
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Post by blatantfowl on Jan 16, 2018 19:57:05 GMT
I want the club to remain solvent and to operate within its means. The uncertainty of league positions is the whole point of being a fan.
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Post by blatantfowl on Jan 15, 2018 20:03:30 GMT
QPR 1 Boro 1
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Post by blatantfowl on Jan 15, 2018 17:45:15 GMT
I have a vivid memory of watching him play for Coventry in the 87 cup final. A fine player and a gentleman who will be sadly missed.
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Post by blatantfowl on Jan 13, 2018 21:37:07 GMT
Feel great about this, and also that we have a steady hand on the tiller getting the best from our meagre resources. Youngsters scoring on their debut is brilliant. Well done Ollie and the boys!
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Post by blatantfowl on Jan 8, 2018 19:48:46 GMT
burton 0 qpr 2
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Post by blatantfowl on Jan 6, 2018 20:55:11 GMT
It’s the hope that kills you
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Post by blatantfowl on Jan 4, 2018 23:46:59 GMT
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Post by blatantfowl on Jan 2, 2018 23:24:37 GMT
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Post by blatantfowl on Jan 2, 2018 20:33:48 GMT
Interesting arguments but not really convincing for me. To be clear, I had to look up the parallels you made as I had not really taken any notice of those transfers. Versatility is useful but does not make players values soar unless they excel in their primary position. Look At James Perch for example who never demanded a great fee despite being able to play right across defence and midfield. Robinson only played centre back because we were desperate and on the left side of 3 centre backs has done well. In my opinion, Bidwell is a better left back than Robinson so he cannot even guarantee his place in the QPR team in his primary position. It looks like Mawson went for £5.5m with about the same number of games as Robinson albeit at League One. He has never had a major injury and is now in a Swansea team where he may again be playing championship football next season. Stewart fee was undisclosed so we have no idea what Hull paid and I dont know if the fact that he came from Liverpool added anything to his valuation. We only paid £500k for Sean Goss so I dont think the cache of having a big club in your CV really makes any difference. It comes down to the quality of the player every time. I cannot see why any Premier club would be interested in a player who has only just got into a championship team and has had a big injury which he has struggled to recover from. As you chose Stoke as an example it is true that Erik Pieters has been very out of form but not so much that they would replace him with Jack Robinson. If they were crazy enough to come to QPR to find a new left back they are more likely to want Bidwell who has loads more games, has been a captain and has not had the injury history which Robinson has suffered. So Terry I dont see Robinson being a player departing on a record fee in the next 3 years but I am enjoying the debate so thanks for taking the time to discuss!
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Post by blatantfowl on Jan 2, 2018 16:49:51 GMT
I'm sure the club would love him to sign a new contract, as I would be. It will just depend on whether they can agree a drop in salary. A three year contract would make him our most saleable asset & a record fee for Rangers could be achieved. Thus the question for the board is whether to offer more than we can afford in the hope of selling him on for an enormous profit. Not an easy decision. I am with you that we need to agree a salary with him but I don't get why you rate him so highly that he will become worth more than £12m. He is a good player but after half a season of doing above OK in an otherwise stuttering defense. If one of our CBs wasn't already injured he may not even have got into the team. IMO he'll be desperate to stay and if he has any sense he'll be ready to negotiate.
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Post by blatantfowl on Jan 2, 2018 16:39:41 GMT
There has not been anything wrong that is not remedied by a steady nerve.
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Post by blatantfowl on Jan 1, 2018 21:28:18 GMT
Qpr 1 mk dons 0
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Post by blatantfowl on Dec 27, 2017 2:33:26 GMT
Hi - Just to point out there London that I predicted a 2-1 win to Ipswich so I should not get anything this time
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Post by blatantfowl on Dec 24, 2017 13:37:09 GMT
Peace be with you all
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Post by blatantfowl on Dec 24, 2017 13:35:22 GMT
Millwall 0 qpr 1 Qpr 1 Cardiff 1
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Post by blatantfowl on Dec 20, 2017 13:57:57 GMT
Ariel Borysiuk, Matt Phillips, Park Ji-Sung, Adel Taarabt, Marcus Bent, Wayne Routledge, Adam Bolder, Matthew Rose, Richard Langley??, Ian Holloway??
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Post by blatantfowl on Dec 20, 2017 12:24:39 GMT
qpr 1 brizzle 1 ipswich 2 qpr 1
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Post by blatantfowl on Dec 19, 2017 14:32:14 GMT
Celtic just got absolutely stuffed 4-0 by Hearts. Quote from BBC commentary thread.. Does that mean we might have Rodgers knocking on our door on January 1st for Caulker? Would be nice to recoup something for him... Celtic are as aware as everyone else about Caulker's current status so there is no motivation to have him hanging around up there while still unable to play. Looks like they have better options anyhow.. www.bbc.com/sport/football/42414457
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Post by blatantfowl on Dec 17, 2017 14:55:53 GMT
As always happy to be wrong, but this has not been a confidence inspiring season. How many more times do we play Birmingham away this season Same no of times we play at home wolves or Sheffield Utd
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Post by blatantfowl on Dec 16, 2017 21:36:31 GMT
Well done to fight back after a rare gaff by smithies.
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