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Post by bowranger on Aug 15, 2018 11:15:04 GMT
Have to say I wasn't very enamoured by the idea when this first started doing the rounds. But considering it's only a five month deal, that's cover for Furlong and a very experienced, decent bloke to have around all the young players, particularly Kakay. Best of luck to him, could have more of a short term impact than we could imagine behind the scenes. Here's hoping for a CB and striker!
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Post by bowranger on Aug 15, 2018 11:12:51 GMT
2+2 = ....? OK, so Hogan Ephraim make a cryptic comment/hint the other day about some interesting upcoming transfer news to be (supposedly) announced soon. At the time I took that to mean that he knew of an incoming player or two currently in the pipeline. But someone Tweeted yesterday about Ephraim's comments asking whether he has a club. QPR's Paul Morrissey replied, "No he hasn't". So, am I making 2+2=5, or might that suggest that the return of Hogan Ephraim is a possibility? And, if so, would that be a good thing? I'd find that very, very hard to believe. He's 30 and was last playing in the National League South, having dropped down to that level from League One. The only connection he'd have with us now, at a push, would be if he was doing his badges and we invited him to hang around the training sessions or something. The comment he made was part of a tweet after his Forever R's induction which said "Good news coming there real soon" - which could mean nothing other than him feeling there's good times ahead. General rumour was that this was maybe in reference to Bhatia potentially coming in to take a more public role at club level (at Fernandes' expense), seeing as Bhatia was a positive figure around the place when Ephraim was at the club. If you've watched the Four Year Plan, Ephraim was fairly vocal about the dressing room failings during the Briatore era so I guess that's not a huge reach.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 14, 2018 23:14:45 GMT
Roll on West Ham away in the next round please... YES PLEASE. I'll take anyone that isn't bloody Swindon or Northampton, at this point.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 14, 2018 21:46:02 GMT
But the whole FFP thing started because the owners tried to turn debt into equity, yes? So, part of the punishment was to force the owners to turn debt into equity, which was what we were being punished for in the first place? Edit: What Marc said in two lines haha. May be wrong but I think it's about the source of the debt and the reason the board did it, rather than turning debt into equity being "wrong" per se. The punishment before was fundamentally because we massively, massively overspent on player transfers and bumper contracts compared to the club's income - spending well beyond what was considered stable or fair. The issue with the debt into equity was because it was seen as a cheeky way to avoid FFP by 'hiding' the debt. Meanwhile, the debt into equity as a requirement for dealing with the fine is supposed to ensure owners don't then look at the fine, run for the hills and saddle the club with the debt. Not saying I agree with the logic or it's right, but that's the line the Football League draw I believe.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 14, 2018 21:32:36 GMT
Just on the way home. That was...weirdly straight forward.
No sign of Hall sadly though Leistner and Baptiste acquitted themselves pretty well.
Cousins looked sharp and linked nicely with Wzsolek so they haven't done themselves any harm at all. Scowen was at his ratty best.
After the two goals we didn't really punish Peterborough and they crept back in. They drew one good trailing leg save out of Lumley but not that much more. Lumley meanwhile, looked solid and his distribution seemed a lot more assured that Ingram's.
Little dull for the last 20 mins or so as we just sought to throttle the game but can't complain. No injuries, two goals, no real danger against not bad opposition who are on a good run.
Special mention for seeing Steve Evans up close from the unfamiliar setting of the paddocks. He was apoplectic throughout.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 14, 2018 13:10:06 GMT
In line with your 3rd point Ricky, there is a very perceptive article* in the current issue of AKUTR's which goes a stage further and argues that our FFP settlement was more important to the EFL than QPR. The EFL's FFP rules survived a severe examination in court, which strengthens their position in future FFP disputes, while QPR, or rather QPR’s owners, received a punishment which they were prepared to accept. Whoever came up with the idea of making the club’s shareholders capitalise £22 million of outstanding debt deserves everyone's gratitude, it allowed both sides to achieve their objective. * OK, I wrote it. Ah didn't realise that was you, enjoyed reading that on the way home, nice one.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 14, 2018 10:31:07 GMT
West Brom 3 - 1 QPR.
I'm going on Saturday so am predicting it in the hope I'm very wrong.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 14, 2018 9:35:44 GMT
Weren’t the last two years tough ? We got through 3 -4 Managers so surely they were.... I think with our board's record on managerial changes, shipping them in and out isn't much of an indication of anything haha. For what it's worth, I think the last two years have been tough and it's still going to be tough - the difference being that we seem to have shifted from floundering in a tough situation to still being in a tough situation but having a plan to try and rise above it (as Ricky says, an infrastructural and financial policy that's got implications for generations to come). In that time period, part way through JFH's tenure was the kinda rigor mortis of Fernandes' twitchy optimism and naivety. Hoos and Ferdinand had begun implementing a change in policy and Fernandes got a bit over-excited (I'd wager being panicked about seeing all his long held shiny dreams of short-medium term success going up in smoke, via a glance at the balance sheet) and shifted the goalposts. Holloway coming in was the first proper realisation of the extent of our financial peril. Expectations for on the pitch success were low and we needed a PR-able manager to steady the ship and keep the fans on-side with someone who loves the club and could create a cave mentality. The first big acknowledgement of how tough things were - this was the season to shift all the dead wood/high earners out and replace it with kids and cheaper transfers. Operation stay in the Championship and stop the rot while being haunted by FFP. Mission accomplished. It was a transition, it was trying to maintain stability while the financial shock treatment took place. Now the toughness takes a new form. The initial shock is over in terms of steadying the ship, now it's a new challenge based on trying to improve our lot incrementally and fully committing to this new financial strategy. Turn the youngsters into sellable assets. Buy players which can hit the ground running and then be flipped for profit. As Ricky says, this is made all the more scary by the parachute payments ending. We lose money simply existing at Loftus Road and over the last few years, our margins have been massaged somewhat by the Sterling sale and the parachute money. So I guess the short way of putting it is that yes, the previous two years were tough but in a different way. The last two years was us making the changes necessary to create a new platform for how the club operates. The next few years is now implementing that in a way that gets us over the line by replacing the lost income from the parachute payments and our loss making stadium via maintaining our Championship status and making transfers a matter of long term profitability. Before it was tough and keeping our head above water. Now it's tough but with a plan. The only thing that gives me positivity in this new era of toughness is that: 1. We actually have a long term plan and we're putting it into practice. 2. That long term plan is absolutely dependant on promoting youngsters and polishing up gems who actually want to be here to improve. Something I've wanted to see for years. 3. That there are actual examples of clubs in similar states who have punched above their weight - we got beaten by one of them on the first day of the season.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 14, 2018 9:05:41 GMT
No-one is getting cut adrift after a "month or so" really are they? Brentford had an appalling run at the start of last season, Millwall nearly got into the playoffs from flirting with the bottom six, it's not how this (or practically any league) works. The issue more generally (and this is less important maybe), is that it's a quality of life thing. This isn't really a "happy clappy" board, it's pretty realistic and it's better for it. The problem with establishing us as relegation fodder incredibly early is that it changes the tone of debate for the rest of the season. A defeat doesn't become anything other than vindication of us being crap, every victory is seen as nothing more than papering over the cracks. It starts negative and tends to stay negative. Football is more complicated than that and it gets tiring very, very quickly. Vent vent vent, rinse and repeat. I don't think we're due a storming season but we were nailed on for relegation last season by plenty despite being nowhere near, but if I was effectively writing us off after two games I probably wouldn't bother going haha. So I'd ask for just a modicum of openness to the possibility of the season not going entirely tits up by August 13th, if only to keep things bearable on here! Bow, I said that I think we’re better than what the last 2 results have shown, but we are deficient in a few areas and need to start picking up points. Confidence is a funny thing and the longer you go without a win the more it drains away. It also affects the fans too who very quickly will give up believing. And that’s when you become Sunderland very quickly. I fully expect Peterborough to do us tomorrow because that’s what we do in Cups, and although stranger things have happened I expect Albion to hand our heads to us on Saturday. After that, we’ll see what happens if we can get a few loans in for positions of dire need. Either way, I’m not going to vent and rant if we lose every week, I accept that FFP has done to us what it was designed to do, namely punish clubs who had ambition by making them go to the bottom of the food chain. Not Les, or Hoos fault so no point having a go at them, they’re the poor suckers getting all the grief for trying to put out the fires that Beard started and Redknapp made worse. I see what you mean and to be fair, I was using your post more as a general jumping off point rather than throwing it squarely on you, so apologies if it looks like the latter. I know you're a reasonable person. Think my concern is that it can become a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy, online anyway. Argument could be that if you start with low expectations, when things go slightly better it's a pleasant surprise but last season shows it doesn't really work that way. People seem to take fundamental learnings from defeats (we're crap and this proves it) but never from wins (beating Wolves and Sheff Utd back to back -> well, let's see us do that every week, it's a blip, don't get carried away...). I'm not all sweetness and light on it - I thought us starting the season with Lynch and Baptiste as a starting CB pairing was a one way ticket to League One. Leistner has fortunately improved that and I really, really hope we get another CB in on loan and/or Hall gets his fitness back consistently. As you say, I also think we're better than the last two results have shown. It's a shame it's all happened so early on because over the course of a season, defeats by a single goal to Preston and Sheffield United (7th and 10th last season) wouldn't raise an eyebrow. But because it's back to back and people are already weary, it looks a thousand times worse. Meanwhile, points cost the same whenever you do or don't pick them up and I'd like to think that things will improve (even moderately) once the players are more familiar with this new system and a couple of new faces come in on loan. It's very early days and the online negativity doesn't seem to have permeated Loftus Road yet. The atmosphere is palpably a bit nervous but the players are still being clapped off and all that. Agree RE Les and Hoos. They aren't infallible but them getting coated off is like blaming firefighters for the blaze starting in the first place. It's been particularly nasty seeing Hoos copping a lot of abuse online simply for being American, you'd hope our fans would be a bit better than that (though the disgusting dog whistle racism being chucked about by a vocal minority online about Ferdinand and Ramsey a couple years ago was even more awful by comparison).
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Post by bowranger on Aug 13, 2018 18:01:51 GMT
If they are up to it and loans only i suppose it would do some good, as for relegation i cannot for the life of me see it going any other way, i really cant. Yeah, it certainly looks that way at the moment, rangersman, cannot disagree with you there at all. I would like to think that we’re better than what we’ve seen over the last 2 games, but it really looks bleak right now and if the obvious deficiencies in defence and up front don’t get addressed in the loan window quickly we are going to be playing catch up early and risk being cut adrift after a month or so. Obviously it’s still early days to be panicking, etc etc, but two weeks into the season I’m already bracing myself for the prospect of an embarrassing relegation and League 1 football next term. No-one is getting cut adrift after a "month or so" really are they? Brentford had an appalling run at the start of last season, Millwall nearly got into the playoffs from flirting with the bottom six, it's not how this (or practically any league) works. The issue more generally (and this is less important maybe), is that it's a quality of life thing. This isn't really a "happy clappy" board, it's pretty realistic and it's better for it. The problem with establishing us as relegation fodder incredibly early is that it changes the tone of debate for the rest of the season. A defeat doesn't become anything other than vindication of us being crap, every victory is seen as nothing more than papering over the cracks. It starts negative and tends to stay negative. Football is more complicated than that and it gets tiring very, very quickly. Vent vent vent, rinse and repeat. I don't think we're due a storming season but we were nailed on for relegation last season by plenty despite being nowhere near, but if I was effectively writing us off after two games I probably wouldn't bother going haha. So I'd ask for just a modicum of openness to the possibility of the season not going entirely tits up by August 13th, if only to keep things bearable on here!
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Post by bowranger on Aug 13, 2018 12:36:56 GMT
Its just a general feeling i have for this season i guess. Couple of wins may remedy that but not holding my breath, i can even cope with poor away form but we need to be resolute at home to ease that feeling. I dont know much about Bhattia either but i feel he has a bit more ruthlessness about him than TF. Can understand the trepidation. I just try and focus on the fact that it's such a young side in a new system, so we won't really see the fruits of it (and that's for better or worse) for a little while yet. It's a weird division. Early last season, we got a very well deserved win at a shaky, average looking Cardiff while Brentford didn't win in their first eight. Look at how all that turned out!
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Post by bowranger on Aug 13, 2018 12:33:12 GMT
Haha I completely agree with that. The only pattern I can identify with him is that he seems to thrive on balls into the box and being no further than 12 yards out! But even then, that's often been him bailing us out of games when we went wider and more direct in previous seasons, it's no real indication of how best to use him when he starts matches. As you say, he's an enigma and I think he gets people frustrated with him more because we can't work out what he's actually trying to do as opposed to him having a clear role and failing at it.
A romantic and naive opinion that doesn't equate to things being better on the pitch...but I do like how weird he is. It all seems very, very QPR.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 13, 2018 12:06:23 GMT
If they are up to it and loans only i suppose it would do some good, as for relegation i cannot for the life of me see it going any other way, i really cant. I think it is fair to say that we are more likely to finish in the bottom half than the top half, but please give the team/coaching staff at least 10-12 games before making submissive statements like that. At least then you might have some genuine evidence to support your claim. Anything else is mostly speculation at the moment. Considering it's August 13th, two games down and the loan window still open, I agree it's absurdly early to start predicting anything concrete really.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 13, 2018 11:59:29 GMT
I dont think being relegated will do us any harm, may bring the club to its senses. Be even better if Bhattia took over and sorted out the place, I like TF but i think he is too nice a guy and has been taken for a mug by mug managers lining their pockets. I think a few years ago I may have partially agreed, prior to FFP looming out of the darkness. There's an argument that quite a few clubs who dropped down to League One got a kick up the arse, took their medicine and revamped their squad/cleared the dead wood out and then actually came back stronger. Sheffield United, Norwich, Leeds (if they weren't ran by a certifiable mad man) etc. I don't think relegation is ever a truly good thing to happen but the stringent restrictions can force clubs to get their houses in order. However, we've already done the clearing out and structural changes at this level, instead. We survived through consolidating and now it's a very different situation. We arguably could have weathered the storm in League One with the parachute payments and Sterling money a few years ago if we cleared out the deadwood in the same manner - stormed back with a bit of momentum and a new mindset. But now, the reduction in TV money and lower attendances could absolutely brutalise us while we try to get on an even keel. Much as I like the cheaper away days, terraces and new grounds to visit, I think relegation would be an absolute disaster now by comparison to a few years ago. On TF, I agree he's been a mug although his influence behind the scenes is definitely on the wane both financially and in the day to day running of the club. I liked Bhatia's attitude back in the day and have fond memories of him chastising the likes of Paladini and Briatore for being such dicks to our players and managers in the Four Year Plan. But beyond that, I don't know too much about him. Could work out really well, could just be a bit of a PR move from the club knowing that his happier, friendly demeanour would play better than Fernandes' waffling. God knows.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 13, 2018 11:45:39 GMT
Lots of good reflection, here.
Only two bits from what I've read that I'd pick up on would be on Eze and Sylla.
For United's equaliser I actually thought Eze was far more at fault than Bidwell was. Only moments before, Bidwell had given Eze an earful about dropping back and supporting him on the left and he got caught in two minds on the very next attack where they scored. You saw Bidwell tucking back inside but Eze was in no man's land. I'm not knocking Eze hard, he's a fantastic talent, but either he needs to drop back with a bit more authority or be allowed a free-role where someone does his defensive work for him, or Bidwell is going to get doubled-up on in this formation. Scowen can probably carry some of that can but not when we get stretched out wide. Him playing on the left of the three means he has to add that side to his game because we simply have not got the squad talent or depth to indulge such a free attacking role as it stands.
On Sylla, I actually thought he did alright. He still confuses me and there's still plenty of occasions where I have no idea what he's intending to do. But he did actually do better than Smith with his back to goal - at least two of Eze's best chances came from him collecting the ball, occupying defenders and laying it off. Smith and Sylla are assuredly not "1's" in that formation than we're playing Champions League football next season, but in an unfamiliar role I thought he did OK. I don't think he's the answer, but to be fair he wasn't brought in to answer that question.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 12, 2018 8:44:45 GMT
having just had another look at the game their first goal should have been disallowed as Sharp was offside and where the ref got the idea of the penalty god only knows really soft ,i thought ref had a really poor game rant over I was convinced the first goal was offside but 90% of the time I think that I'm proved wrong by the replay. How frustrating.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 11, 2018 16:21:36 GMT
At some point I'm going to have to accept that in contemporary football you're allowed to feign injury, waste time flagrantly and take the absolute piss without sanction or im going to have an aneurysm. It's not why we lost but it is so, so frustrating.
In a bad mood walking along the Uxbridge Road, so I'll try and be brief.
- Ingram made two very, very good saves but nervous on distribution - he's clearly been coached to take it short.
- Rare I'll say this but Lynch was simply crap. His distribution was woeful, awkward on his man, just not good enough to start. Leistner had a good game and looked strong again. Kakay was largely very good, worked hard, overlapped, unafraid to take his man on.
- Freeman looked bright, Scowen worked incredibly hard, Luongo looked weirdly off the pace. Eze took his goal exceptionally well and was decent throughout but tired towards the end.
- I was miles from it but the penalty looked like Lynch nudged McGoldrick in the back. Soft but unnecessary. Smith came on and was used as a climbing frame and rarely had his shirt out of the CBs hands but never got a foul.
In conclusion, we looked like a nervous team playing a new system unable to beat a very limited but well drilled side. One of those games where the oppo happily sits five (sometimes even six) at the back without the ball. I didn't rate us but felt we were probably value for a draw.
I don't know the answer but there was a moment near the end where a United player went down very obviously feigning injury and the keeper threw the ball out. We had possession but duly returned the ball to their keeper with a few minutes to go. I respect that and while it absolutely pissed me right off and had me out of my seat at the time, I know he did the "right" thing. I don't think United would have done that and after last week it is raising some questions about how 'nice' and unsavvy we are against cynical teams like this.
No alarm bells from me other than at CB. Time will tell.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 11, 2018 12:01:02 GMT
With regards to Kakay I beg to differ. Kakay is unproven at this level. Sure we should give him a chance but what happens if he can't hack it at this level and we don't have some else as a back-up plan? Also if all the youngsters feel "entitled" to a first team place just because they've done their time in the U23s and/or on loans at lower levels then they could become lazy. Competition for places is the best way to keep the skill levels up IMO. I think that's the level of risk we are obliged to take to be honest. I see your point but I don't think it's a complacency thing, it's a resource question rather than owing any youngster a chance. We have chances all the way through their development to make judgement calls on our young players. Do they do well at U23? Yes, so send them on loan. Do they do well enough on loan to keep faith in them? Yes, extend their contract. Are they good enough to be on the bench (I.e. to provide cover)? Yes, try them out in cup games and sub appearances. Can they hack it with further development? Yes, name them in the senior squad. At any time, we can tell them their future is elsewhere or hold them back a stage until they are ready. If Kakay is at that point now, which he is, and we don't think he can hack a temporary run of games at this level, we shouldn't have named him in the squad. Not cos we owe him a chance (though I feel how he's treated has resonance for both him and other young players) but because he's a senior squad player.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 11, 2018 10:44:57 GMT
Thanks Bow. I am sure that you understand the ‘younger generation’ dynamic far better than I do. But there is a lot of sense in what you are saying. Back in the day, I used to travel with a group to away games (and we were treated like scum) and for home games we would all stand in the Loft behind the goal – no pre-planning on a Saturday, you just turned up to where we stood. We generated noise and others joined in – much like R Block today – we were the noisy sods, but we generated atmosphere. Even then I used to think that more should be done for the valiant group that travelled up and down the country. The idea that home group concessions could be offered to those that travel is a good premise – and fair in my book. Of course, back when I travelled, the clubs did not really want to encourage away support – the police could be very welcoming (not). There will be an inevitable consultation period before anything goes ahead. You should put yourself forward for it, no doubt Clive from LFW would be listened to, but the more the merrier. Better an articulate view than some of the expressions of dissatisfaction that I have read lately. But if they get the stadium go ahead, I think they will probably get the marketing correct. But the market segmentation for a project of this nature is key. To make money they need an integrated approach and that is why comparison with our current rarely full stadium is not always a fair one. As for the transport, there will be an outcry and much bleating about the East Acton Station and estate. But the OOC proposal was very clear that to make the HS2 and Crossrail interchange work, East Acton Station would need to be relocated to the junction of Brunel Road and Old Oak Common Road with exits to both roads. The interchange will go ahead even without the full regeneration project and East Acton Station ‘one of the smallest and potentially dangerous station on the Network’ will ‘probably need to shift. Once shifted, football supporters would be split, East and Westbound on the Central Line (unlike now with it all going through White City) and supporters arriving from HS2, Crossrail or East Acton Station would walk along the side of the Scrubs to LC Stadium and not through the estate – probably not as far as we walk to Arsenal’s new stadium! I think given the timescales, transport is fixable. The real issue is that a pure stadium investment is unlikely to be profitable, even with other revenue streams. The OOC proposal had hotels, cinemas, leisure centres, supermarkets, restaurants etc. These were all potential attractions for investors. None of that will get approved for the Scrubs Even if some did, it still next to the prison and the hospital. Clearly, QPR Board still want LC as a solution, but I think it is also a genuine final throw of the dice before leaving the borough for other further afield proposal on the Western corridor. The document is a cry for support, a warning to the local council and more importantly, a way to take the fans along before setting the sights on pastures new – IMHO. ‘We tried our best but….’ Really enjoyed reading that, Ricky, cheers. Your experiences are exactly what I'm talking about and I think those are the core groups we risk losing out on over time, particularly if it's people who don't have a family loyalty to keep them as younger people clicking through the turnstiles. I think the experiences you talk about are the kind of crucible that turn a few mates going to a match into the people who end up as season ticket holders for decades to come, the difference now being that there's a lot more footballing distractions competing for people's time now. Yes, these are the noisy little sods, these are the people who want to stand and have a beer, but they're also a good chunk of the people who follow us allover the country, the ones who generate the bulk of the atmosphere, the ones who will be there for the highs of Man City at home and the lows of Grimsby away. You risk losing them at your peril, particularly in our precarious financial state. I think even anecdotally, you look around the ground and how many groups of younger people do you really see? When I was in my early teens and younger, I'd look around and would still see the groups of mates having a laugh, standing and singing - the people you kind of look up to as youngster when you're too young to go to the pub or whatever. I'm in R Block and in my 30s now and I can barely see those kinds of groups anymore. To paraphrase one of Clive's pieces from a while back, if you're a young person who wants to follow QPR (or any other club at around our level) and have a laugh with your mates, the barriers are higher than ever. Assigned seating and high ticket prices is an immediate issue in terms of affordability and going with friends. If you go away, you're often herded off a train and dumped in a pub and kept in there by the police under the assumption you're a hooligan for simply turning up. The train system is an absolute joke in terms of price and even if you follow the companies' advice and book your tickets nice and early, Sky can always end up picking your fixture and your non-refundable tickets go straight in the bin. Not to mention that it could end up with an early kick off. In the ground, you get over-active police and stewards at plenty of grounds who seem hell bent on finding any excuse to kick you out. So your day out - say, some food, a few rounds of drinks, travel and a match ticket can tip your away day over the thick end of £100, or £50+ for a day out at a home game. Factor in the fact that a lot of the time you're treated as a group of people they'd rather not even have in the ground to begin with and it's a less and less attractive way to spend your time. It's draining when you consider the modern young person is being bombarded by 24/7 football on social media - no wonder so many just buy a crate of beer for £20 between a few mates and watch the game in the comfort of your own home with your mates on a stream for free. As an immediate example, my housemate is a Spurs fan and loves going to matches. They're away at Newcastle today and was desperate to go, but with the early kick off, he could neither get the time off work to go up on the Friday night nor afford to get an early train ticket this morning. So he's going to go down the pub instead. Spurs can afford him and 10 mates not doing that, can QPR when those people turn their backs on going to the match when situations like that come up week after week after week? This sounds defeatist because I don't have a solution - but do think things like age-centric discounts, group booking discounts and setting parts of the ground aside to focus on such group bookings are a start. And should be a key consideration in any new stadium plan, to avoid the kind of situation we've got with the family stand being chucked in the lower loft, for example (I know the club are now in a rock and a hard place with that one, though). That's kind about putting myself forward. I mean, I'm sure I'll reply to any consultations on it. I did use to be involved in the Supporters Trust and that's a movement I think is crucial in football in general. Unfortunately I didn't find it very effective at QPR and didn't have the time required to make a proper go of it. My priorities for what I thought were the most important elements for campaigning for fans weren't the same as the people already involved. To me, the Trust movement is fundamentally different to more general supporters groups so I felt the scope for umbrella movements and collaboration with other groups (LSA, IndyRs etc. etc.) and fans more generally on single issue campaigns such as safe standing and "Twenty is Plenty" was absolutely doable and key to having the club listen on issues as some form of united front. But repeatedly found that there was an incredible amount of static between fans' groups, largely dating back to incidents or perceived slights from when I was barely a teenager or even younger (such as the proposed Fulham merger - I was one years old!) so frankly just could not be arsed anymore. All good, hardworking folk with QPR deeply at heart but yeah, wasn't for me. I had no idea about the HS2 element to the transport issues - fascinating!
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Post by bowranger on Aug 11, 2018 10:09:30 GMT
If memory serves me right we did own some, much earlier than the 60's and sold them as we needed/wanted the cash. As I said in a lengthy post on another thread the other day the situation we face now does not result just from the last few years under TF but dates backs through many years of bad management, lack of foresight and investment and poor decision making. The LC proposal seems very workable to me and would not only benefit the club but also the others sports associated with the location, the general community and the local council. The recent idea from the Council to build a 13,000 seat concert venue on the site to me is more a case of them looking for quick solution with the hope they can generate some cash by renting out the venue. That idea does little else for the area or community and faces the exactly the same if not bigger transport issues - all of which I believe are solvable or not real issues. At present I think R's fans are a little spoilt by the availability of transport compared to many other grounds. I would think a 5 or 10 minute extra walk, knowing you would then watch a match in comfort with un-interupted views is worth it. Correct me if this is absolute guff but I remember reading that during the Chris Wright era, there was a chance to buy up a chunk of the housing at a fairly knock down price which would have enabled us to expand Loftus Road, but the club decided against it..? Hindsight is 20:20 and all that, but how frustrating.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 11, 2018 10:06:37 GMT
Not impressed with this one............give Kakay a chancewww.westlondonsport.com/qpr/football-updated-qpr-ready-to-bring-in-former-swansea-city-defenderQPR ready to bring in Rangel as short-term cover By David McIntyre 10/08/2018 QPR are ready to sign veteran right-back Angel Rangel on a short-term deal as cover for the injured Darnell Furlong. Rangel, 35, is a free agent, having left Swansea City when his contract expired this summer. He spent 11 years with the Welsh club, making 328 league appearances and playing a key role in their climb to the Premier League. Rangel, who played seven times for Swansea in all competitions last season, has been invited to train with the R’s, who expect to be without Furlong for at least three months. Furlong, who missed much of last season with knee trouble, suffered another knee injury during a recent pre-season friendly against AFC Wimbledon. I couldn't agree more Ricky. From what I've seen of Ossie he looks pretty good. Some League Cup match last season where he played in midfield, Brentford away last season and against Union Berlin he more than held his own. How can we hope to develop our own players if we don't play them? Hopefully this is just more nonsense. Same and I think that bleeds into the wider club philosophy. We have a lot of credit in terms of introducing youth after loaning them/integrating them gradually and establishing that pathway from the U23s to the first team. It's a great signal to future signings such as those who've crashed out of other clubs' academy (like Eze did) and so on. This would dent that a bit. As you say, he's had some experience in the first team and it's important because Kakay isn't just coming out of the U23s but he's done his time on loan too - having accumulated two seasons away at Livingston and Chesterfield. If he can't be relied on for a few months (and I think he can and should be), then why has he been named in the senior squad. I don't really know what a 'short term' deal necessarily means. To me, that tends to mean til January but loan deals can be more flexible I think.? Maybe I'm overreacting and this is just a case of an affordable bandage on a situation so we have two fit RBs to call on but I really don't like this at all. Not to add speculation but I hope this doesn't mean that Furlong's injury has been assessed as more serious than originally thought.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 10, 2018 15:49:57 GMT
Geez harr, the window only closed 5 mins ago! ....and the answer to your question is NOAlso, having made such a song and dance about getting loans in rather than signings I wonder what the excuse will be if we don't get any loans in before the end of the month! Hahahaha. The change of tact on that is probably the biggest clue we have to this window not going exactly as planned in terms of our targets. We never ruled out the loans market by any means, but it is telling that in the weeks prior, the club were very openly saying that the loan market was not as attractive in terms of value and yet now we're essentially relying on it.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 10, 2018 15:23:08 GMT
The football economy is very skewed now. The Sky money rewards success - through the divisions. FFP takes that premise and extends it so that owners can no longer invest over their established position in the hierarchy. Or perhaps another way of stating that is that owners can only over invest on the privoso that they have to succeed. Fail and you are double punished. The stadium is a major part of the proposition. If you look at QPR in terms of stadium only, we should be in the third tier - and that is where we will be placed by the current regulations. Likewise, Sunderland will return to their rightful position. The size of the ground in the long term means more than the quality of the football heritage or community. Sad but true. Fans will migrate - especially the younger ones and so the stadium ends up governing the ambition. Fernandes thought he could work round this reasoning that QPR was the closest to the West End of London and that he could generate revenue from the tourist trade. But with our current stadium, the proposition was very limited (and he screwed up). A stadium at Old Oak Common though with all the plans........... Interesting that there is now no chance of OOC and a stadium it seems. However, now we are looking at Wormwood Scrubs. Not that far away but next to a prison and hospital with no shopping centre / train interchange etc. In short, if we do not get LC Stadium they will have to look out of the borough - probably Park Royal way. My footballing education started on the mud slopes of South Africa Road. Ellerslie Road stand was a dump, getting covered in rust when the ball hit the roof. White City Stadium was great for Speedway and Greyhounds. I loved going to Speedway there, but bloody hated football there. It was like the old Wembley but twice as far away and with no atmosphere at all. There was more noise for our school sports events at the stadium than for football. Then after the building of Loftus Road we had a wonderful stadium (apart from knee room) and it was fit for purpose. Sadly, it no longer is. Investors cannot go on making losses indefinitely. In football, if they walk away the club folds. It is amazing that more clubs have not gone to the wall , but I think that it will happen more and more. Stadiums need to be multi-purpose in the medium to long term. But please, not like the old White City. Really interesting post, nice one. On the thing about young people migrating, I think that can actually be double-edged and it's been a really interesting discussion point on new stadiums (and the modern football experience in general) to me, particularly as it loosely links to my previous job. A lot is made in terms of young people who potentially turn up to Loftus Road and being confronted with poor facilities compared to the likes of Chelsea and Fulham and subsequently turn their nose up, which is a fair point. There are young people weened on a diet of Sky Sports, streaming and world-class football on social media so Loftus Road can feel like a damp squib with its lack of leg room, queues for food and often mediocre football. So there's an argument that without a modern, clean stadium we lose out on attracting the youngsters. But I'd argue that in the short-medium term, the level of football is going to be turn off for fans like that regardless, beyond attractive offers for the younger end of that market to encourage families. By the same token though, I've met just as many young people who are disillusioned by the glitzy experiences of top level football and their wants aren't being catered to either. Call it boredom, call it the popularity of football nostalgia, but a lot of younger people want affordable, authentic football. They want to stand. They want to be able to get an affordable beer and an affordable match ticket, and could care less about the leg room or food or state of the bogs. For all the good work the club does with family ticket offers etc, I actually think the 18-25 age group is one of the most neglected and important groups for the long term health of our fanbase. These tend to be the people who end up getting into travelling en masse to away games, generating noise at home games and we (and football in general) are losing them. Football is bigger than ever with young people but the average supporter age (particularly for season tickets) is actually rising. There's been some steps taken (such as cheaper tickets in X Block nearer the away fans which people have snapped up), but I think any new or old stadium needs to think about competing for that market more heavily. If you're a young person and QPR are your local club, you've got some distinct choices. You could go to QPR, but the price is prohibitive, the beer is extortionate and it's hard to go in a group. It's cheaper and easier to buy a crate of beer and watch better football on a stream. I'd love it if we offered group tickets to that age group - making it affordable for say, groups of 5 mates to get cheaper tickets and sit together easily and affordably. Those are the season ticket holders of tomorrow in my book. Quick one on Wormwood Scrubs and transport. I reckon we're pretty spoilt currently with how close we are to the tubes and buses, though I think the area near Scrubs is still pretty competitive compared to other clubs in our league. Mobility is a big factor here, but you've still got White City, Wood Lane and East Acton within walking distance.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 10, 2018 14:49:38 GMT
Enjoyed that - he's a divisive writer and I certainly end up disagreeing with him as much as agreeing but this is spot on. Bit of a knock on the "very big clubs", mind. They all deserve a decent standard coverage being in the second tier, whether it's Leeds or Rotherham.
Do like Shaun Harvey taking a knock yet again. Not enough is made of the fact that this clown is in charge of something as important and divisive as FFP when he's a definitive failure when it comes to football finances.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 10, 2018 14:37:48 GMT
Like i said its my opinion and i think he is a waste of time and money , spouts crap etc. And i do not read the media crap to form that opinion, or on anything in life. Why do people assume that something they do not agree with has to come from a media fed imbecile?? . I don't know, feels like you're reaching - I was just referring more generally to the criticisms flying around about Hoos. Most of that is down to the idea that the club are sitting on their hands and not moving on obtainable transfers through choice, which I'd argue is pretty deliberately and understandably fuelled by endless speculation that links us with transfers we often have absolutely nothing to do with. Doesn't assume people are idiotic, it's just cause and effect - if you bombard people with transfer speculation, people are going to comment - I'm as guilty of that as anyone. Throughout the thread, I've argued and discussed transfers such as the Bettinelli non-story, it's what football fans do. No-one is saying it's not your opinion or you aren't entitled to it, people have said as much. What I'm interested in why you think he spouts crap and is a waste of money. Not doubting you think it, would just like to discuss why because it's QPR and it's interesting to me and it's a forum for discussion. If you don't want to explain it then feel free, but don't act like anyone is robbing you of an opinion here.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 10, 2018 13:25:06 GMT
QPR 1 - Sheff Utd 1 QPR 1 - Posh 0
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Post by bowranger on Aug 10, 2018 12:28:21 GMT
Should have kept Holloway , smithies etc , i see nothing but grief heading our way yet again. It is my opinion so you can bleat all you want it wont change how i feel. Also that Hoo`s fatty should lay off the pies and get his arse working in this clubs favour. Asides from the fact that there's zero need to get personal about Hoos' appearance, I just don't know what this opinion is based on. How is he not working in the club's favour? A struggling, non-competitive QPR makes Hoos' job infinitely harder. Don't always agree with the bloke but I'm not quite sure what it is that attracts the bile. Can't help but blame Sky Sports and the galaxy of shitee-spouting clickbait transfer news stories for this kind of stuff. Whips everyone up into a frenzy about us "missing out" on players we've probably never even spoken to. They literally make money off of making things up and it's staggering so many of us put so much faith and interest in websites that literally make money off our clicks for un-sourced, agent-fuelled fantasy crap.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 10, 2018 12:03:14 GMT
I mean, I love it when we win and curse it when we get turned over... Meaningless but personally I'm just annoyed Bolton are even here as I can't shake the thought of their survival being at the expense of Burton. We've essentially lost an incredible day out full of welcoming, friendly pubs loaded with food and local ales on a relatively cheap trainline with an away terrace...and swapped it for a half empty, cavernous, identikit stadium on a bloody retail park in the middle of nowhere hundreds of miles away. The bastards. I’m even quite happy when we draw believe it or not, just don’t like losing Haha I can be quite philosophical about draws but only once I've had an hour or two to calm down on the way home! In tight, entertaining games where we've done well but ended up settling for a point, I'm always impressed by those around me who can walk away saying "wow, what a spectacle for the neutral and a point's a point...". They're the ones in the right, but when it's tight margins, I'll always be more disappointed about not nicking all three points and you'll see me in a right old mood on the tube while everyone is exhorting the end to end action.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 10, 2018 12:00:17 GMT
Unless I'm missing something, isn't this less significant than it comes across? I thought with how debt had been converted to shares and so on (terminology may be wrong here but you know what I mean), Ruben had been having a far larger role behind the scenes for quite some time anyway, seeing as he's the majority shareholder and Fernandes' proportion financial control had waned.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 10, 2018 11:43:16 GMT
Oh crap, I missed the deadline. Oh well, I'll stick. Don't think the transfer window was as disastrous as being made out but don't think we'll do as well as it stands. However, as we may bring bodies in on loan while that window is open, my prediction may still be alright!
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