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Post by bowranger on Aug 22, 2018 11:25:19 GMT
Was dreading what the attendance would be last night and although low was surprised by how many actually made the effort. I did notice though that a lot of season ticket holders who sit around me weren't there! Let me start by saying Bristol City are a very average team. We played quite well in the first 40 minutes for a team that got smashed at the weekend but then like many games over the last few seasons we give away a sloppy goal in that 5 minutes before half time. (We also do it in the first 5 minutes after half time). Why in this day and age are footballer still slipping over? The defence looked what they are, a group of strangers! Only Bidwell being what you could call a permanent figure from last season. Rangel did ok for his first game and will surely improve with games but to be honest its a shambles at the back. Their line was like a ZigZag, some stepping forward some back. Listner and Baptiste didn't have a clue where each other were and there were again occasions of going into tackles with our own midfield. The communication is non existent! I don't feel that the defence will improve with the return of Hall because the problems are just to deep. Washington wasted a great chance again drilling it straight at the keeper which he has an uncanny skill for. He only had to slide it either side of the keeper and at 1-0 we are talking a totally different game. I've seen Eze getting a bit of stick for missing the chance in the second half but personally I don't think he ever expected to receive the ball from Washington and I couldn't believe Washington didn't take the shot on himself but I suppose that shows his lack of confidence. After my criticism of Washington I might surprise some by suggesting he stays in the team but I believe he could do a job on the left or right of a three with two holding midfielders in Scowen and Luongo. He's quite quick and does have a decent touch. The other two I'd have in the three would be Eze and Freeman in the centre but Washington isn't a number 9! I drastically need a Centre forward! As far as McClaren is concerned he clearly had realised that his playing out from the back is a no go with these players. And whether people like him or not he has a unbelievably difficult job to get the best out of, not the team but the defence. Listner I thought played well in the first game against Sheffield Utd but the last two games he's looked all over the place. McClaren needs to bring in at least two defensive loans or design a system where the full backs just sit and don't get forward in anyway, because when they do we get dragged all out of position and that normally results in a goal. I'm not calling for McClaren's head, but him and his staff need to start earning their money on the coaching ground. No days off, no half days for the players. Need to play games whether against the youth team, U23's, whoever and work on shape because some of players don't seem to know where they need to be when in defence. Hopefully more turn up Saturday but I wouldn't have money on it! Agree with a lot of that. On the defensive shape, I got the impression that either we'd been told to sit a bit deeper to avoid risk taking/mistakes after a poor weekend game but we only partially listened, or Leistner was nervous and sat back on his own accord. As Bristol pressed with longer balls out wide, there were quite a few occasions where Leistner was the only one who didn't push up, meaning no offside trap and more space for their midfield to run into. That's not a dig at Leistner, more a dig at the lack of cohesion. Either the back four go up as a unit or not at all and it ended up, as you say, in a zig-zag. That Eze chance was very frustrating. I actually err more on it being Eze's fault. I think he's isolated from a lot of criticism which is good - he's very young and there's no point hammering people. Interesting on the walk home to hear people battering Freeman for his decision making but Eze was just as culpable in the second half and took to lofting aimless balls forward. As you say, lack of confidence from Washington may have been why he didn't shoot but Eze was fundamentally in a far, far better position to score. If Washington shoots and it's deflected wide, he would have been absolutely pilloried for not giving our golden boy a tap-in. C'est la vie. I think there'll be more on Saturday but not many. A lot of season ticket holders didn't turn up around me either - though I think a big chunk of that can be credited to the game being free-to-air. Evening games are harder for most people in terms of time and travel so if you mix in watching it for free at home plus the poor run we're on, people stay away. Personally I think that's a shame - I get it but if a team ever needed people turning up, it's us.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 22, 2018 11:07:23 GMT
Liked I bored on about in the match thread, I genuinely have no idea. I don't think the manner of the defeats shows this as an issue that a new CB and striker on loan would simply fix. It might improve things, sure. But the start of the season doesn't make us look like we're two signings away from being absolutely fine does it? More fundamentally for McClaren, if he knows anything about football or our Club's situation, he should have been very aware that this transfer situation was, if not totally foreseeable, a very likely outcome. He wasn't brought in to re-shape the club with transfers. He said as much. We were told he was here to develop what we have. Anyone here could have told him that there was a very real possibility of us not being able to compete during the transfer window and we'd be left with a very difficult battle in the loan window. If his only answer is to keep doing what we're doing and keep crowing on about the efforts to bring in bodies, as if that's the only way to fix it, as he keeps on doing, he's toast. Well we are where we are. Nothing any of us can do. I will be the 1st to hold my hands up last Christmas when I gave Ollie a right moan on here for a few weeks when we went through a bad spell thinking he needed replacing. He turned it around though and we finished just under mid table and I thought he deserved longer and was surprised when we was replaced. I would much rather he was Manager for Wigan put it that way. Very true. I mean, I guess you weren't the only one on here arguing the same, but this all does seem very much an exercise in being careful what you wish for. At least you don't see managerial changes as the answer to everything. It's tiring seeing posters come out of retirement who exist only to call for a manager's head but are quiet as a mouse when we win, draw or look average rather than catastrophic. They did it with Ollie too, with no sense of irony. Such are messageboards. For all of Ollie's faults, and there are many, he at least knew how this set of players works. I think people who called for his head last season probably feel sheepish as this season exposes just how hard a job he and Bircham had on their hands. Very easy to moan about being a lower mid-table Championship side when you're not in the relegation zone. It's still August 22nd. I'm far from convinced by McClaren but for all I know this is a horrid transition while the ideas are being drilled into the players, we somehow drag in a CB and half-decent striker in the loan window and we'll all be laughing about how naive we were in a month's time. I doubt it, but weirder things have happened. Looking at our opponents yesterday, Lee Johnson had an appalling start at Bristol City - so bad that he was getting death threats from fans and had to move house for god's sake. But they persisted and they got a lot, lot better. I mean, he's a younger manager with all the caveats that entails but even a dire first three games doesn't mean we can't get better. Brentford didn't win any of their first 8 games last season. But yeah, god knows. It looks very, very bad.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 22, 2018 10:52:54 GMT
Too easy mate. These days you can even predict what minutes weβre going to concede in. Amazes me anyone who never saw this result coming larger than a Tyrannosaurus Rex in the wing mirror of a open top jeep. Maybe we can get one of the backroom staff to pop a glass of water in the cup holder and wait to see if it jiggles?
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Post by bowranger on Aug 22, 2018 10:50:08 GMT
QPR 2 - 1 Wigan.
Not overly confident but as poor as we are, Wigan are also a poor team and we're at home. Praying you can pull this one out of the bag and stop the rot.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 22, 2018 10:45:29 GMT
Bristol City probably get Collins because they sold Aden Flint for Β£7 million after buying him for Β£300k. It's frustrating but when his name first came up, we didn't think we would have been able to afford him, right? Asides from the money being a hurdle, what worries me too is that this increasingly doesn't look like a defensive situation another club would let a younger player into on loan either. It would be like chucking them into a fire. Which on our budget, seems to only leave mature heads...but only ones better clubs don't want. It's a really, really bad situation. Agree on the criticism of Fernandes, I don't about the implication work behind the scenes. Imagine the pressure there after those performances and the outpouring of anger, they're likely absolutely desperate to get a CB in. I donβt think it will matter who we bring in player wise. i think we have a real problem here with McClaren. Whatβs the answer Bow ? Liked I bored on about in the match thread, I genuinely have no idea. I don't think the manner of the defeats shows this as an issue that a new CB and striker on loan would simply fix. It might improve things, sure. But the start of the season doesn't make us look like we're two signings away from being absolutely fine does it? More fundamentally for McClaren, if he knows anything about football or our Club's situation, he should have been very aware that this transfer situation was, if not totally foreseeable, a very likely outcome. He wasn't brought in to re-shape the club with transfers. He said as much. We were told he was here to develop what we have. Anyone here could have told him that there was a very real possibility of us not being able to compete during the transfer window and we'd be left with a very difficult battle in the loan window. If his only answer is to keep doing what we're doing and keep crowing on about the efforts to bring in bodies, as if that's the only way to fix it, as he keeps on doing, he's toast.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 22, 2018 10:39:11 GMT
Not sure if anyoneβs interested and Simon Jordan is a bit of a wally who loves himself but his take on us, where we are.... Have to say guys, I agree 99 % of what he says ..... Yeah, I'm no fan of Simon Jordan but I don't really disagree with much of what he's saying. A bunch is dependent on hindsight but nonetheless, I think he's broadly correct on Fernandes there.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 22, 2018 10:32:06 GMT
Well I am home and I am none the wiser.......... On Saturday we did fine in the first half and collapsed in the second half. Tonight I thought we played really well, up until the first goal. Then we become a pub team. We never looked like scoring yet seemed to have all the possession. But we seem to be making individual errors - usually falling over and gifting possession. The second goal killed us off, the third went in long after Bristol City had stopped trying and were just winding the clock down. We have players who look good when we are still in the game but fade away once we are behind. I have no idea at all if McClaren should be sacked or not. For 41 minutes I though he had got out of jail and then their first proper attack and shot and the ball went straight through Ingram. Sack McClaren and what is PLan B? Who is likely to want to join us (who is any better)? Thought the substitutions were poor again. Listened to the callers on Talksport on the way home. Pretty depressing stuff. The place was pretty empty tonight and pretty deserted at the final whistle. Will have to sleep on it, but I am pretty stuck on what should happen next.I decided to sleep on it too rather than vent on the walk home from Loftus Road, thinking it would be clearer the next morning...but it's not. I do agree with pretty much all you say here though, Ricky. Ditto Marshbowles. I wouldn't necessarily go as far as he did, but that Paul Parker interview posted earlier seemed to mention a lot of the key worries I have. All the talk was that McClaren was brought in to develop what we had and take them to the next step. We always needed to add two CBs and ideally a striker, so I can understand McClaren expecting more bodies in those departments...but this was never, ever going to be a transfer-heavy window for us. Yet every interview since is referencing transfers and the need for experience. I'm sorry but that was not in the bloody brochure. Was McClaren told something different to us? Did he think "oh well, the board always say that but I'll convince them to spend"? Maybe I'm just being cynical after another defeat but this absolutely reaks of Fernandes seeing a big boy manager with England on his CV off the telly. I laid out my opinion after the West Brom game so won't bore on about it again but he seems to be setting us up in a way he'd like us to play with players he wishes we had rather than adapting to what we've got. 4-3-3 was an improvement on Saturday and we did cut out a lot of the more extreme elements of playing it out from the back that we are not capable of. Nonetheless, there's still plenty of square pegs in round holes. Why bring on Smith but remove one of the few players who can put a ball on someone's head in Wszolek? If Washington is on, why not work the channels for his pace rather than lumping it vaguely in his direction? One part that wasn't down to McClaren was a basic quality thing. We played well in the first half, had one clear-cut chance for Washington and he did the hard part then couldn't finish. Bristol City had one good chance but it was borne out of Bidwell uncharacteristically falling over and then Ingram let a shot slip under him. I know why Ingram started the season - he's been a sub for ages now, has hundreds of league appearances under his belt, I rate Lumley more but Ingram is the next cab off the rank. He deserves a chance. But bloody hell, I am in my 30s and overweight, and I saved a better shot than that playing 8-a-side on Monday night, no word of a lie. You save that, it's nil-nil at half time and it's a different game. As nomar points out referencing Clive at LFW, we concede over and over again in the period just before and after half time. The so-called QPR Pleasure Zone, the one time you need to be at your absolute best and not risk throwing the half time team talk in the bin. Absolute game management basics. But we keep doing it, regardless of the manager, it is infuriating. I felt a bit weird about Manning going out on loan, but seeing Cousins in his stead makes the decision look mind-boggling. Hindsight is 20/20 but we're getting knocked about, we lack grit and we talk about development...and we loan out a player who has grit in absolute spades, who can mix it and is ours to develop. It looks a worse decision by the day. Also, this is probably very low on the scale of stuff to be annoyed about but Angel starting ahead of Kakay. He was fine and he's a very lovely bloke and loves his mum etc etc etc but we still got dicked three goals to nil at home. There's the experience - a 35 year old starting ahead of a right back who is our player, who is young, who we're supposed to be developing, who we dropped after an all-round poor performance at the weekend. What does that do to his confidence? What message is that to our youngsters? I'm in the minority on it, but I think that's plain dumb and the absolute polar opposite of what we were told McClaren was here for. So what now? I genuinely have no idea whatsoever. If this is arguably as good as it's going to get and we've made a blunder and McClaren's tactics and style is not being adapted to the stark reality of making use of what we've got rather than him hanging his hat on fictional far superior newcomers, then he's toast. You cut your losses and make the change early while there's still time to sort it all out. Arguably, if McClaren says the issue is simply one of a lack of 'experience'/new faces in key areas, then you give him and the backroom until after the loan window shuts, see who we bring in and see if things improve. No-one is irrevocably cut adrift in August, no matter how bad it seems. Add in the fact he's brought his own backroom team with him and getting rid of him seems financially very, very frivolous. Maybe even unaffordable. One thing to bear in mind though is that we hired McClaren at the best possible time for a new manager. He's spent a full pre-season with those players getting his ideas across, he's laid down roots. Summer is the best time to get a new manager as there's far more of them out of contract. Now, anyone who others would rate have been snapped up and we'd be left with the scraps. So we have to be very, very careful for what we wish for. Paul Parker references Mick McCarthy and going back to basics, but you also risk going too far the other way. Yes, expecting us to play 4-2-3-1 with no ball playing CBs, a keeper who can't kick and no striker with a back-to-goal game is plain stupid. But so is turning us into a blood and thunder team when we're populated with a ball playing, attractive and somewhat lightweight midfield. Beyond Scowen, Leistner and perhaps Smith and Freeman, who would fit into that kind of team? Either way, if Wigan goes poorly then I imagine he'll be out the door. I'm rambling. I have no idea what we should do.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 22, 2018 9:36:41 GMT
Bristol city probably get Collins, we get Bassong out of the retirement home. Still everyoneβs working hard behind the scenes. Well done Tony F....... nice time to step back....... donβt come back. Bristol City probably get Collins because they sold Aden Flint for Β£7 million after buying him for Β£300k. It's frustrating but when his name first came up, we didn't think we would have been able to afford him, right? Asides from the money being a hurdle, what worries me too is that this increasingly doesn't look like a defensive situation another club would let a younger player into on loan either. It would be like chucking them into a fire. Which on our budget, seems to only leave mature heads...but only ones better clubs don't want. It's a really, really bad situation. Agree on the criticism of Fernandes, I don't about the implication work behind the scenes. Imagine the pressure there after those performances and the outpouring of anger, they're likely absolutely desperate to get a CB in.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 21, 2018 14:23:32 GMT
QPR 1 - Bristol City 1.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 21, 2018 11:52:09 GMT
I think we are all confused by what is going on. D. McIntyre reports the conflict behind the scenes and then withdraws it - presumably chastised by the club. But we get of to a really poor start and the call seems to go out for Rangel, Routledge and Bassong. Even Chis Paul returns after being released. We have taken on some good young defenders recently but they do not now get a game in the U23s now as we try out the other end of the spectrum. What sort of message is that? Phillips (our only mature cover) was injured in the U23 game yesterday. Hall played an hour. Baptiste last man standing. Still 10 days to go, but WTF? A couple of reports insinuating McClaren might even be sacked after 4 straight defeats ? Losing out on that Heferle was a sucker punch Forest can do one.....Hope they miss out on play offs Hefele was a real heartbreaker - that would have been a wonderful signing for us. It's shame Forest are taking a mad tilt and are able to stockpile players like him at our expense. I also can't help but hope the wheels fall off for them.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 21, 2018 11:46:27 GMT
The names being talked about sound a little arse-backward to me. I thought the initial goal was to fill the gaps left by Onouha and Robinson, while Hall wasn't fit. We've brought in Leistner as a no-nonsense enforcer and I think that's a good signing. But if we're persisting with playing it out from the back, you want a ball playing CB too. Not easy to find for our budget, sure, but that was clearly the goal considering the push for Sainsbury and Hefele (and I'm sure loads more were scouted) but those moves didn't come off. So now the window is shut and we just have loans, we seem to have lowered our sights to just some form of fit CB who can play Championship football. Fine, better to have an average CB to fill a gap on loan than panic-buying the wrong one and being saddled with them. But if that's now true, why on earth are we looking at people like Bassong? Surely if you need cover there are younger, fitter and more affordable loan options? I mean, I don't know what I'm talking about so perhaps that's just the reality of it, but I'd have assumed an out of work 'name' like him is less cost effective? Premier League loans are often a false economy nowadays, but I find it hard to stomach that potentially bringing in old, out of work faces is the best move by comparison? If Rotherham can bring in Manning on a year's deal because he's not going to get regular games here, surely there's a defensive equivalent who isn't getting a start at a similar club? If it's for "experience", I just don't buy it to be honest. I don't think that's the issue in the back four - Kakay is young but we're potentially putting a 35 year old in (wrongly in my opinion, but I appreciate Rangel is on a short deal and he's good to have around the place). Bidwell is well experienced. Leistner is well experienced, albeit in a different league. Baptiste has been around the block. Lynch is flakey but again, he's been there and done it. Not like we're easing in a Giles Phillips who needs a mentor, are we? Anyone concerned about Leistner. He had a horror show Saturday, mind you most did. Norwich fans are saying they are glad they never signed him and neutrals were saying he is the worse CB they had ever seen. In fairness he did ok in the other two League Games I thought, hopefully he can have a better game tonight. Wonder where Onuoha will end up. Not particularly, no. I think he was pretty low down the list of issues on Saturday. I don't think he had a horror show, but he wasn't great, but as you say, no-one was. I think the second penalty sold him short-shrift and made him look worse - I'm a fully paid up member of the goalkeeper's union but that was Ingram's fault all day long. Having watched Championship football and some of the absolute carthorse CBs in this division for years and years, calling Leistner the worst is genuinely moronic. He wasn't even the worst CB on the pitch on Saturday for god's sake. Could care less what Norwich fans say really, they're swimming in money with a gigantic catchment area and have still managed to utterly under-perform by trying to fast track a knock-off version of Huddersfield. We're a young, cheaply assembled side in poor form performing below our lower-midtable ability. They're an expensively assembled German-model wet dream that by every yard stick is performing well, well below where they should be. A Mini Metro trundling at 50mph is a bit sad, but a BMW stuck at 50mph is embarrassing. Finishing 14th and getting left in the dust by the likes of Brentford, Millwall and Preston who have a modicum of the spending power, wage budget, facilities, stadium capacity of them tells you absolutely everything. No idea about Onouha, I guess he's got the luxury of choice really. He's a free agent with some good pedigree with his eyes up north, I'd be surprised if a Championship or even upper League One side didn't take a punt if they could afford him. He's a very good person to have around the place who's been there and done it.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 21, 2018 11:16:35 GMT
We're QPR fans and we are used to the lows and troughs associated with supporting this club. We have always applauded players that try and give 100% no matter their skill level. We tend to support our younger players although a few years ago I came to blows with a moron who felt the best way to encourage a young Richard Langley was with "Langley you are f*&king useless" If we go a goal down then it's not the end of the world. But, if we start playing to our weaknesses and not our strengths and repeat the same mistakes that we did on Saturday with pathetic defending and continue to leak goals then the boo boys may have a field day. Loftus Road when rocking can be an intimidating place but it needs two to tango. If we see some heart and dedication from the team then it will get the crowd behind them. My fear is that if we go a couple down early on that LR will head chants of 'Is this a library or Is there a fire drill" as people head for the exits from the Bristol fans. If ST holders are always included in the attendance then we may squeak 11500. I'll be there and I'm going for a 2-1 win. Very much agree with this. I think it's also a rock and a hard place with statements from the club prior to a game because people will just jump on the back of it after a poor performance. I mean look at the response online to a request for people to get behind the team. No-one is saying the management or the team aren't to blame or that they shouldn't give us something to shout about or that lack of backing from the crowd is the problem here. It's just a very, very basic statement of fact that if a team is struggling, adding a toxic, negative atmosphere into the mix can only ever make it worse. I always hark back to how clubs (including ours) used to play at Molineux in the days before Wolves got all that money. They have a notoriously moody, impatient fan base. If you strangle them for the first 20 minutes or so, the crowd get right on the team's back and the team go into their shell. They start taking pot shots. They start picking the easy sideways ball rather than the ambitious through ball, the players would rather just not make a mistake than take attacking risks. It's an old chestnut but it's always a bit illuminating to me on the other messageboards that the most vocal about this stuff tend to people who don't go. All very easy to have a go when it's not you having to go sit in a negative, nasty atmosphere. Loftus Road when it's rocking is worth a few points per season, but by the same token, it's one hell of a hard place to play when all those thousands of people close to the pitch are just waiting for you to make a mistake. The online 'vibe' does have an impact. If you're a ST holder who goes online and the mood is constantly foul, that affects the mentality of people who do end up clicking through the turnstiles, too.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 21, 2018 10:45:54 GMT
The names being talked about sound a little arse-backward to me. I thought the initial goal was to fill the gaps left by Onouha and Robinson, while Hall wasn't fit.
We've brought in Leistner as a no-nonsense enforcer and I think that's a good signing. But if we're persisting with playing it out from the back, you want a ball playing CB too. Not easy to find for our budget, sure, but that was clearly the goal considering the push for Sainsbury and Hefele (and I'm sure loads more were scouted) but those moves didn't come off.
So now the window is shut and we just have loans, we seem to have lowered our sights to just some form of fit CB who can play Championship football. Fine, better to have an average CB to fill a gap on loan than panic-buying the wrong one and being saddled with them.
But if that's now true, why on earth are we looking at people like Bassong? Surely if you need cover there are younger, fitter and more affordable loan options? I mean, I don't know what I'm talking about so perhaps that's just the reality of it, but I'd have assumed an out of work 'name' like him is less cost effective? Premier League loans are often a false economy nowadays, but I find it hard to stomach that potentially bringing in old, out of work faces is the best move by comparison? If Rotherham can bring in Manning on a year's deal because he's not going to get regular games here, surely there's a defensive equivalent who isn't getting a start at a similar club?
If it's for "experience", I just don't buy it to be honest. I don't think that's the issue in the back four - Kakay is young but we're potentially putting a 35 year old in (wrongly in my opinion, but I appreciate Rangel is on a short deal and he's good to have around the place). Bidwell is well experienced. Leistner is well experienced, albeit in a different league. Baptiste has been around the block. Lynch is flakey but again, he's been there and done it. Not like we're easing in a Giles Phillips who needs a mentor, are we?
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Post by bowranger on Aug 20, 2018 15:37:09 GMT
I mean, I'm no doom merchant and I'm the first to say that QPR fans like many others are the first to draw damning, fundamental conclusions from defeats but are far less talkative after a good win. So I am very much with you in terms of one game not making a season and I'll be there giving those players my 100% backing tomorrow night.
But I do think there is a middle ground here and still feel there was more to Saturday in terms of how it played out than the situation you're laying out. Yes, West Brom are a good side at this level and yes, the team early in the second half did collectively lose their heads. Nonetheless, I think there was still some fundamental tactical and managerial failures at play here like I laid out above. Plenty of times in the past, we've avoided pastings like this against better teams by shoring things up and hunkering down. Likewise, we've come out against far better teams than us in a sensible shape and formation but simply got out-played and our heads went down - I think getting trounced by Newcastle at home more recently fell into that category. There's stuff I think we could have done differently but fundamentally we got hammered by a team who hammered quite a few teams that season, awful as it was. That's football, like I said back then.
However, I think this was fairly different. It's not the death knell of the season and it's not us being cut adrift or being beyond repair. But the excuses for the performance from McClaren do not match up to what happened, the performance was not simply an issue of us being outplayed and heads going down and it's at a point in the season that very rudely exposes the gaping holes in rigidly sticking to a shape and patterns of play that we do not have the players to carry out.
The latter is the bigger long-term worry for me because it affects how we now approach sorting it out.
In my mind, we have to change the shape and tactics to better fit the strengths this squad does possess. In McClaren's mind, this seems to be an issue of replacing players with more 'experience' to fit his system, which was not what we were sold in the brochure for this season and I think is a very dangerous path to be going down. The next week or so will be very telling. Grind out two results this week and see a good response from the players, then happy days. But if we go down the path of loaning out our young players for the likes of Bassong and Routledge (as the rumours suggest), which prioritises McClaren's ideal system over adapting to our squad with minimal money to play about with, then I'd be fairly annoyed by that.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 20, 2018 10:54:35 GMT
West Brom have miles better players than us so defeat was almost certain and no surprise...but that scoreline was real shock horror. We continue to pay the price for signing mainly Mediocre Dud or downright dross championship players since relegation from the premiership in 2015. .... Sadly some of the deadwood is still at the club I disagree about the deadwood (though agree regarding 'mediocre' with a fair few, though even mediocre Championship players are far from cheap..! I can tolerate mediocre) but I know we've debated on recruitment before so no need for us to wade back into it here. On the first part though, yes, definitely. That's kind of what shook me so much in the away end on Saturday. Getting beat away by West Brom is not a shock. Getting beat away in general is not a shock for QPR. I predicted a defeat prior to the match, so did plenty of others and the odds reflected that too. A defeat at West Brom is certainly not season defining, particularly when you consider the gulf in resources when we line up against a team that has Dwight Gayle and Jay Rodriguez up top. If we went there and got done 3-1 or 4-1, you can mark it down as a poor performance against a superior side and carry on. But on Saturday, that's simply not what happened. As you say, the scoreline is the real shock horror. Absolutely basic game management dictates that if you're well in the game against a good team, you close it out sensibly until half-time and be hard to beat for the start of the second half. If that goes out the window, as it did here and you're clearly inferior and the game plan isn't working, then you get into turtle-mode and stop it turning into a hammering. Add a body to the back or the midfield, hunker down, drop deeper and leave with a bit of respect. On Saturday, every change arguably made us worse and the heads dropped. That's the unacceptable part. The manner of it and the tactical naivety of it. That's what makes building a bit of momentum this week so crucial. To steal a point made over on LFW, this is the fifth time we've been battered by 6 goals or more under our current owners. Moments like Saturday are supposed to be once in a generation hammerings, they are not supposed to happen this often. As an aside, I had a moment with another fan when the fifth (I think? Hard to keep count...) goal went in that kind of sums up a lot of the online frustration going around the place. A small group behind me were chanting "we want our money back" and one then changed to "we want our Rangers back". Exasperated and drunk, I turned around said "what does that even mean?!". He just said "I...I don't know...I don't know... but this is sh*t!". People may disagree about what is causing the problems or some may have no idea why on earth things like this happen, but the bottom line is that people are hurting. It'll turn toxic if we don't shore things up and repay the fans with some competent football this week. Fingers crossed, eh?
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Post by bowranger on Aug 20, 2018 10:06:49 GMT
On a tier even lower than clickbait, I can report that I actually signed Carter-Vickers on FIFA 18 career mode on a year long loan for QPR and he's actually done alright. Perhaps more pressingly, I've also been fielding a lot of offers from Millwall for Washington on a permanent deal!
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Post by bowranger on Aug 20, 2018 7:16:47 GMT
One of those games tomorrow where momentum wise, it doesn't matter if the ball ricochets in off someone's arse, as long as it goes in.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 19, 2018 22:51:06 GMT
We all know that the players we have at QPR apart from a few exceptions that have potential to be better are of a very average quality. I can see that when I sit in my seat in The Ellerslie on match days and I'm sure you who attend games can see the same. So why does a Coach/Manager and all the coaching staff who see these players day in day out decide to play a style (although nice on the eye when it comes off)that the players don't have the ability to perform? It's the job of the coaching staff to get the best out of the players and that's what Ollie did. He knew what he had and didn't ask them to do more than their ability allowed. Some will say "he's only had three games" and "give the guy time" but unless we have a change of style and tactics from McClaren immediately we are going to be in serious trouble and McClaren will be gone by the end of September if not sooner. Leaving us with yet more payments to another group of coaching staff! I will be there on Tuesday but doubt very few will, and I do understand fans not attending as it's not cheap for the quality and the frustration you have to suffer but we who attend games really need to get behind these players because they're really going to need as much help as they can get! The reality of us possibly being relegated would see us spiral out of control and I would truly fear for us as a football club! COME ON YOU R'ssss Agree with an awful lot of that. I would gladly be proved wrong but so far, this really does feel like a situation of McClaren having his preferred formation and style but does not have the players to execute it. The key is to adapt, even if it's temporary, so that losing doesn't become a habit. There's a big ol' grey area tactically for us to work within. There isn't some binary decision with 4-2-3-1 as one option and Pulis-style lumping it to a big man as the other. If playing it out from the back with a keeper who is fairly poor at distribution isn't working, bin the strategy til he and the CBs can do it. Ditto relying on a system that lives or dies on a striker with a good back-to-goal game. We don't have one, so stop it until we get one who does and/or they're drilled in it. By all means have these things as aspirations but adapt to the strengths we've got. Bottom line for me is that we don't need to chuck the formation in the bin but it does need to be bloody simplified and adapted right now. Loan window is still open and if we can afford personnel who can play McClaren's way then wonderful, but that frankly may not happen. And if not, we better have a tactical Plan B and McClaren needs to earn his corn and adapt to show us that. I'm not going to write him off this early but he can't just look at the start of the season and say it's just a matter of "lack of experience" and not a tactical issue. For all the mitigation, and there's plenty, I think it is largely tactical and I'd far rather see 'sacrifices' to this footballing system in the short term. What you say about the attitude required now within the stadium is so, so important. This is still a young side that's transitioning and they need us on side more than ever. The last thing we need is a toxic atmosphere at HQ (or online) while we figure out how to get some points on the board. They'll be hurting too. We need them to do well and they need us to back them. You Rs.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 19, 2018 22:31:16 GMT
Not sure the reason Dave Mc is basing IH as a child and Steve M an adult but each to there own. Doesnβt sound brilliant whatβs being discussed though. Oh well letβs see points wise what we can pick up Tuesday and Saturday at home. If itβs nothing, wouldnβt surprise me if SM walked away after 5-6 games, itβs the QPR way. The murmurs were that Ollie's outbursts in terms of stuff like the post-Brentford equaliser meltdown, pre-Millwall shenanigans etc etc were seen as unprofessional by people inside the club and not sustainable in terms of keeping things steady with a young squad. Regardless, as I guess Dave Mac points out too, even if you believe that behaviour was a significant issue, you've got to replace him in a smart way. For all the shortcomings, Ollie knew his way around a hotch-potch squad and making the best of a situation with very, very little money to spend. You lose those expertise at your peril, as we are potentially now finding out. He chopped and changed and that frustrated, but by the same token, is it any worse than a manager who seemingly will not experiment or adapt away from a formation we seemingly don't have the players to enact.? Very messy innit.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 18, 2018 21:55:42 GMT
Be weird if he was laughing. One of Ollie's strengths is that he loves QPR and would run through brick walls for our club. Doubt he takes any joy in us being tanked, harsh as his sacking was. I would imagine Ollie would put his reply of the game exactly as Birchams reply on other thread . LF is taking a lot of stick tonight ? Is he responsible for coming up with players names like Sainsbury that was a pointless target, not sure. Les and the Club come up with targets and he tries to get them. If the Club are not giving him funds what can he do? Les does not select the team or get the players motivated for games.... I guess the longer Les is at the Club with certain areas not performing he will come under more and more pressure.. Apart from the capitulation today, what else have I learnt. I would love to have kept Smithies, TF said it was an area we had strength etc, but to be honest I am not rating our current keeper at all and would prefer Lumley or even the loan keeper from Fulham that I donβt know much about. Ingram is definitely scaring me. We need Rangel in the team asap, with Hall if fit. Same on Ollie, i'd imagine he'd be gutted about the result but would point out how this result highlights the scale of the job he had been doing last season. Dunno why I'm arguing cos the same statements will just come out anyway but: 1. Sainsbury wasn't a pointless target, we were in for him and then PSV made a better offer, that's football. I think this has been a pretty poor window for us, even with all the hard financial circumstances, but I don't see why Sainsbury was a pointless target. 2. Les doesn't come up with names, the scouting team and McClaren does. It's literally not what a Director of Football does. His job is the overall footballing policy, he doesn't identify targets beyond being a check/balance to make sure a transfer target fits into the club financial strategy. There's a lot of people at fault but don't know why people are obsessed with putting stuff at his door. He comes under "more and more pressure" because people wilfully misunderstand his job, are (rightly) pissed off by performances and want to tar someone off. I think it's McClaren at the heart of the particular failures today, personally. It's persisting with his 4-2-3-1 system with players currently incapable of playing it. Insisting on playing out from the back with Ingram who cannot kick properly and a pair of centre backs who aren't much good at distribution. Insisting on playing a 'one' up top in Smith when he has no back to goal game. Play to our strengths if the system isn't working and adapt. We were absolutely abysmal today but based on watching that performance, why would you think Angel would make it in anyway better? Kakay was nowhere near an issue that needing solving today, it was far more fundamental than that.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 18, 2018 21:26:11 GMT
Be weird if he was laughing. One of Ollie's strengths is that he loves QPR and would run through brick walls for our club. Doubt he takes any joy in us being tanked, harsh as his sacking was.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 18, 2018 16:44:14 GMT
Left on 5-1 (first time I've left an away game early as far as I can remember). Was 6-1 as I got out the ground and 7-1 before I reached the tram.
Tired, drunk, can't be arsed to sum it up right now. Not bad first half, absolute capitalution second half. Ingram for that second penalty was genuinely embarrassing.
We need to work with what we've got rather than setting out a system we are so poor at and don't have the personnel to play with. Playing out from the back with a keeper who cannot pass? Playing with one up front with a striker who has no back to goal game? We are better than that but this was absolute crap.
When momentum is against you, absolutely batten down the hatches and stop it turning into a massacre. We didn't.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 17, 2018 10:12:46 GMT
Also won't be a big money...Guess we'll get about 5-6,000 gate No, the crowd won't be big, but I think there will be a couple of thousand Gasheads in attendance. It would be a good night to enrol ex Rovers players to Forever R's! Ian Holloway, Gary Penrice, Andy Tilson & Devon White. Any others? Steve Yates! He ended up back at the Gas as the kit man a few years ago. No idea if he's still there.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 17, 2018 8:47:18 GMT
Just realised that Cousins is still here, I completely forgot about him despite him playing most of the game on Tuesday.
Perhaps McClaren sees him playing a role this season which in turn means less chances for Manning, so loaning him out gets him playing regularly? I'd see the logic in that but still feels a bit weird.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 17, 2018 8:27:25 GMT
Yawwwwwwn. Really fancied a new trip.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 16, 2018 13:12:28 GMT
I'm in two minds really. On the one hand, it's good for him to get some games and I can't necessarily see him breaking into the first team with our midfielders as it stands, plus he's at an age where he really needs to be playing more often for his development. On the other hand, I don't see who fits in if Scowen gets an injury. He was immense and busted a gut for 90 minutes on Tuesday but the decision to risk him looks even riskier if Manning temporarily goes out the door.
RE: Goss - he was definitely there on Tuesday. Saw him behind the home dugout, having a laugh with the other squad players. May be meaningless but we also handed our Instagram story over to him during pre-season, so he's definitely about. Don't know if Manning potentially going out on loan is an invitation for him to play as back-up for Scowen? Both CDMs but incredibly different - Scowen is an absolute ratty enforcer and from what I've seen, Goss fancies himself as a bit of a 'quarter-back' style player at the base of midfield?
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Post by bowranger on Aug 16, 2018 10:39:38 GMT
Very good points - particularly in terms of how Bhatia is now likely to be the face of future negotiations and what that could mean for us.
I'm only guessing and speculating here but I wonder if the difference in business background gives clues to a change of tact and negotiating style.? Fernandes' business projects like Air Asia, Caterham and QPR have all been intensely personal. A lot of talk about trust, relationship building and so on. They're his babies - the success in growing Air Asia from the ground up enabling him to bank roll his other projects in a looser, emotive way. Meanwhile Bhatia's background is in managing funds and putting investment into growing concerns. I wonder if that means he will approach stuff in a colder, more realistic fashion and be better at articulating himself to potential future partners and investors? Looking at each deal in isolation and in terms of ROI? Not to mention the fact he's London-based and therefore a more stable, reachable face for the club to put in front of people.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 16, 2018 9:19:38 GMT
It is good PR, but I suspect it is more than that. I think that the Summer transfer widow was the start of the change. Back in the day, 'Arry would call Tony and say ' You won't believe what goalkeeper I have been offered - he will blow you away'. When told who it was Tony would say to go and get him and hopefully there would have been some discussion about how much and what happens to our current goalkeeper - but who really knows. It would seem that the Summer window was governed by a specific player budget. If you want to buy, you must first sell, but those decisions were to be made by Hoos and Ferdinand. Smithies goes - Tony gets pelters. He responds. He feels the need to defend himself. But you either delegate or you do not. Half way measures only confuse. Striker and defender lined up but dependent on a player leaving. Word goes out that the player leaving will be Freeman. Fans react - Tony comes out as says that the player is not for sale. Key question here is was that helpful to Hoos and Ferdinand and was it with their agreement? Dave McIntyre consistently reported (and still does) that the club were open to offers for Freeman but those offers did not match the club's valuation. The fans having direct access to the Chairman is not healthy if it leads to confused or inconsistent communications. So Fernandes can now respond to the dogs abuse by saying he is no longer involved on a day to day basis. I expect Amit's communications to be party line and far more corporate - although with a bit of love for the club thrown in for good measure. Like Bow says, I am only making an informed guess though I think that covers a lot of the reasoning well. I agree particularly RE Bhatia and his communications. Based on his previous tenure, he always came across as pretty balanced. Friendly but serious. Very aware of his role and that he was running a business first and being a "mate" to the fans second. However, his passion used to come through a bit and he was always the first to admit that running a football club doesn't follow the same rules as a regular business - that a football club should be a key part of the community. Like with most stuff it's about balance and perspective. Some people seem to be implying that the change is absolutely meaningless because the ownership percentages don't change, meanwhile others (particularly on social media) see this as the 'end' of Fernandes and the beginning of an utterly different new era under Bhatia. In reality, I think it's bang in the middle. A PR win doesn't have to mean it's smoke and mirrors.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 15, 2018 22:35:45 GMT
If you can answer my question, maybe the answer will be yes! (And of course I've had my Happy Moments at and with QPR! Many of them. But these questions remain valid It doesn't change in terms of ownership percentages, but then nobody (including the club or anyone here) is pretending otherwise. It ain't a conspiracy. I don't see people saying this equates to a sea change. Other posters have given more detailed breakdowns but fundamentally it changes only in that Bhatia now has enhanced responsibility at the club compared to Ruben and Fernandes. That wouldn't be true if the title was purely ceremonial, but that seems very unlikely considering this is a person who resigned previously over not getting the level of control he wanted at the club. We can make informed guesses but not much more. We can presume that as Bhatia is UK-based and holds the chairman title, he'll have more trust put in him for decisions compared to Ruben and Fernandes and those decisions will be made quicker. A lot of that's probably granular day to day stuff that we may not see much of. We have some clues in terms of his priorities, demeanour and so on from his previous role at the club. I doubt a lot of fundamental stuff will change - debt to equity in the past and post-FFP ties a lot of the same faces to the club, at least for now. Hoos and Ferdinand have a long term strategy which the board collectively have invested in so I can't see the sustainability processes and club 'culture' changing. It's probably good PR in terms of how it's being chucked out there - a divisive Fernandes being pushed back in exchange for Bhatia who is broadly well liked is a 'good news story'. But beyond that, it is what it is.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 15, 2018 14:03:35 GMT
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