Being positive or just realistic

[blatantfowl]

Being positive or more to the point, realistic.

The margins in this league are so fine that most teams can beat any other team. In a few games you can either shoot up the table or tumble down it.

This squad have been betrayed and while we wish they’d used that experience to prove everybody wrong it is not a shock that they are playing poorly. The spirit in the squad must be depleted. Us fans don’t have to be happy about it but we should not be surprised.

Our stadium, no of fans, facilities and revenue define what we are, a lower end championship club. We’ve punched above our weight many times and underachieved just as many. It’s undeniable that’s what we are. Others are currently overachieving but for every Bournemouth, Brentford, Burnley and Fulham there is a Sheff Wed, Ipswich, Derby, Portsmouth or even a Bradford. All our size or bigger.

Our owners are some of the richest people in the world but cannot invest as we may want. Swapping owners will make not difference. They already subsidise the club. I hate the rules that force so many clubs into an endless hopeless story of mediocrity. Fairytales have been killed off. Instead our owners have taken the only viable way forward, a long term view to invest in better infrastructure and build for the future. God forbid even if we are relegated, it makes little difference to the long term plan.

Not so long ago we nearly went bust, blinked out of existence, disappeared never to return. The rules that limit us so harshly also aim to keep us solvent. If you think we are suffering now, it’s been far, far worse. I would dread to go through an experience like Bury fans went through.

So if you’re as mad as hell and not going to stand it anymore then unfortunately there’s feck all you can do about it.

I for one will feel the pain and get behind the team anyway.

[Macmoish]

New owners probably can't put more money in - given FFP rules.

But maybe they can appoint better...

It's hard to criticize Les Ferdinand because we don't really know what he does. But if his primary job is to bring in players. Well that's worthy of looking at.

As I recall; the reason Tony Fernandes hired Les Ferdinand - He knew him; wanted a name - and a conduit between Manager and Owners

[nomar]

We need to stop loaning in Premier League reserve players. Their attitude clearly is that it’s a privilege for us to have them.

Stop buying injury prone players. They may be good when they’re fit, but that’s the problem. They rarely are. It’s hard to help a team when 90%of the time is spent on crutches or in rehab.

Stop just looking at the UK market. It’s overpriced and full of mediocre players. David Beardsley coaches in the USA and has a direct pipeline to good young American talent. Last time he was interviewed he said the club has never approached him about this. That boggles my mind! We have free access to some good young players we can get really cheap, and we’re not taking advantage of it??!

Also, look abroad like smaller Spanish and Italian clubs do, and pick up gems that they later end up selling to the top clubs in Europe. This should be what our scouting team is doing too!

If you use the UK market then get good L1, L2 players. No prima Donna attitude and likely to be the kind of players who will consider it a privilege and a step up to play for QPR.

[rickyqpr]

I wrote a couple of weeks ago about some of our players attitudes and how we may have to look to our youth if we cannot afford recruits.
Clive's report from Saturday places the blame squarely at the players door.
He names names, and joins Nomar in damming most of our loanees.
It is hard to place the blame at Crirchley's door, he has inherited a dire situation and bad bunch it seems.
On Saturday, he was urging the players to push forward, and they just seemed to ignore him.
Has he lost the dressing room, or was it lost before he even arrived?
Alarmed that the only transfer story seems to be Armstrong leaving, especially when he was one of the few trying on Saturday it seems.
I hope we know what we are doing.....but very much looking down rather than up right now.
www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/queensparkrangers/news/59469

[robindubois]

Being realistic the only people to blame are the players who have gone from being one of the best and most attractive teams in the division to push overs. Some of our play is still not bad but much of it is unacceptable.

Time to stop blaming the board, LF, managers and coaches.

Something happened with the Beale exit - not sure what but that's when things changed, Maybe because he had recruited, especially the loans players, who now seem to be indifferent at best, maybe they feel let down but as pros they should cope.

The only complaints I have on team selections - some of which are enforced are:

1. Critchley says Willock just needs to play himself back into form but if he is on the bench that will not happen

2. Playing Dickie and Dunne together is a guaranteed 2 goal start for the opposition. Dickie has declined and Dunne I now rate as better. Play one of them (preferable Dunne) with Clarke-Slater or Balogun if we could get him fit and the defence suddenly looks much stronger.

I am just waiting for the window to close - see who is still with us and if they know they have less than half a season to prove themselves either to us or to secure a good move some my respond. We are also missing an on field leader - stick Joey Barton type in there and short a few people out. Hoping Johansen keeps playing as the only one apart from Balogun with any sign of leadership. Last with Dykes in hospital I doubt Armstrong is going anywhere.

[harr]

The players aren’t rubbish though.
They are the same players that took us to the top of the table with Beale only a few weeks ago.
We don’t need to fill the team with kids we need to get the ones we are paying to actually play for us.
When Beale left it should have been down to Hall , Ramsey and others to get the players back on board.
It didn’t happen.
They are the guys working with them on a day to day basis, then when Critchley joins, it’s him.
Since then they havnt been interested, so is it all down to the players or is it our back room staff just ain’t up to the task.
We have had 8 games to sort this mess out and nothing has changed.
I blame all coaches as much as the players , that’s what they’re paid to do, get them back on track as a group.
About time we made a few changes at the club deeper than the players, this cycle has gone on far too long now.

[rangersman]

When they are playing as crap as they are lately, why send out Armstrong etc on loan. Stick them on the pitch, good god they cannot possibly do any worse than that shower. We are the usual farce of the division, and I can blame the whole system. Although I am liking NC at least he is being honest and saying we are crap. Its the usual relegation dogfight then, cant wait.

[londonranger]

Our striker list is unenviable. Since Paul Furlong and Kevin Gallen, only Patrick Agyemang stands out. Not for football but missing easy goals. We better try and stop the bleeding or we will slide down to regions
we've never known. I noticed That Walsall and Grimsby Town popped up in the FA Cup conglomerate. They disappeared and made a slight comeback. Is Bury in our future. Nothing is impossible.

[canadaranger]

Any point in asking Gerry Francis and Ollie and such in to talk with the players and give them some kind of psychological boost. These guys have seen it all and walked the walk. Surely worth trying something. No positions. Just a time or two when the lads could listen, understand, ask questions, receive advice from some very good and committed old hands???

[hitmanrangers]

I never got over excited when we went top of the league. Many of the players were riding a purple patch which most teams have at some point, relevant to their ambitions. Willock and Chair very technical players but Willock in particular has yet to prove his value over a full season. Not yet a hardened Championship performer and lacks consistency to really kick on. We need players who can put a shift in, week in and week out, maybe only Dunne, Dickie and Field do that consistently for us.
A change of system is needed as 2 in the middle has us being overrun even by the so called lesser teams. Tim needs a role that provides more freedom which means dropping (or selling) Chair, Roberts or Willock.
Armstrong is not the answer for us yet this season unfortunately. Lots of potential but needs a season or two in L1 or L2. I like him but feel much like Sir Les, he will be a late bloomer and not start to show his true potential in front of goal until another 2 or 3 seasons.

[egranger]

No one was complaining about the recruitment at the club when we were top of the league.
To criticise Les, Chris Ramsey and Lee Hoos is not to recognise the mess we were in before they stepped in.
They have turned the club around in the last few years and made it an enjoyable club to be around.
We must get behind our current management and accept that it will take time to turn the current run of results around.
We may have played poorly at Hull but the home matches v Sheffield United and Swansea could easily have been home wins and we would be looking up to the play off positions.
I find some of the comments very disappointing and would ask that you are realistic this season and get behind the team

[harr]

Coulds and possibilities …..
Should have kept a clean sheet, shouldn’t have conceded, shouldn’t have missed a sitter, all ifs and butts…
The results under Critchley have been poor, can’t think of any poorer performances from the team than the Luton and Hull performances and Cardiff was also dreadful considering the state they are in.
I don’t blame Critchley too much yet as he does need a bit of time but come on we have all these coaches at the club and in two months they can’t sit down with the players and get a new ethos drummed into their heads, sorry it’s not good enough.
At the minute, I struggle to think we can beat Huddersfield and Millwall at the minute unless we get a couple of players in today and it gives our current players a sudden boost.
I’m not sure where we are going to finish this year but really get the feeling it could be one of lowest since 2017.
To me they havnt turned the club around, we have had 7 years to get in the play offs and have failed on seven occasions.
Surely they have to get us in the play offs at least once in the last 7 years to justify turning us around.
In 7 years a best of finishing 9th is not turning it around to me.
Of course this year your right nobody was moaning when we got to top under Beale but look what’s happened again, like last year have a run of picking up a point a game for two to three months, what’s happening at the club while this is going on.
Since 2017, 18th, 16th, 19th, 13th, 9th, 11th, currently 14th.
I don’t want 20 years in Premiership but I don’t want my Club to be competing a bit better than this.
I know you should be careful what you wish for but I’m wishing some changes higher up the ladder are made in the summer other than just shuffling players out.

[rickyqpr]

Ok – so there is healthy debate about our plight. None of us know what is going on in the background – as was subsequently proven with Warburton’s demise.
Apportioning blame is all a matter of opinion, I guess.
But a bit of reflection / analysis of our recent style (or lack of it).
When Beale arrived, we were informed that it was all about the full backs – attacking full backs. In came Paal and Laird – 2 very good signings. I for one was surprised that we then played two at the back. Due to injuries, the two rotated between Dickie, Clake-Salter, Dunne and Balogun. Initially, Dunne could not get in the side. With 4 centre backs in the squad (plus Masterson), we looked ok – but we all knew that the cover for the full backs was just not there, We just hoped they would both stay injury free, and in Laird’s case, not be recalled.
Towards the end of Beale’s tenure, we were found out. Our full backs were getting exposed or being pushed back. We will never know if Beale just lost the dressing room, or just got found out, but he could not rescue the games where we struggled. But when it worked, out central defenders played the ball out to our advancing full backs, and Johansen dropped deep to receive if the full back supply was blocked. Very basic, but effective.
The pairing of Dunne and Dickie lacks any pace. They are both better suited to a three. Left to their own devices, they play triangles with Seny, until he either picks a pass or hoofs it up to an isolated Dykes. Without Johansen, there is no dropping deep or anyone prepared to play that role. It is very ineffective.
During the purple patch, Willock was unplayable, and Chair was on the same wavelength. Players lose form, we have suffered badly from individual falls / injuries. Should we play them through these spells or rest them? Who knows?
For me, we have a bunch of players who can raise their game, especially when we score first. We do not have a leader on the pitch, and even on Saturday it seems, that after conceding an early goal, the players could not lift to try to get back into the game until after the half time roasting. Without Laird and Paal on Saturday, we saw what we already knew. Hamalainen, on the bench, but not used when the first choice was injured – because he is nowhere near good enough.
Now you can say that it is up to the coaches to lift the squad, and it is, but what goes on once on the pitch is down to individual and collective responsibility. Clive wrote about players sitting down wanting to go off, our loanees either not being interested or completely out of form, our senior players (Adomah) touching the ball ten times. All the coach can do is bellow at them, hook them, and then not pick them. He bellowed, they ignored him, he hooked 2,and has said that he will drop underperforming players. We will see.
If FFP means that we cannot recruit, if we cannot send the loans back, and what we have is not performing, the manager is short of options, and he and we have a big problem.
I hope that he puts Drewe on the bench instead of Hamalainen. That he gives Richards a decent run in the team. Retains Armstrong as an impact substitution (and not loan him out). Has the courage (and whatever financial implications) to leave Roberts and Iroegbunam out of the starting eleven. That he accepts that Adomah is no longer a consideration to start a game. That he can keep Johansen fit and hopefully find cover in the Summer.
I hope that Critchley can somehow make this team his own team. I hope we can avoid a relegation fight. Amen

[harr]

Very well put Ricky, can’t argue with any of that, other than utilising Drewe, if truthful I know nothing about him.
Regarding the Beale getting found out part for his last 5 games, I’m more in the camp the players got wind exactly what was going on and their beliefs and concentration slowly sapped away each game.

[rickyqpr]

Jan 31, 2023 9:28:38 GMT harr said:

Very well put Ricky, can’t argue with any of that, other than utilising Drewe, if truthful I know nothing about him.
Regarding the Beale getting found out part for his last 5 games, I’m more in the camp the players got wind exactly what was going on and their beliefs and concentration slowly sapped away each game.

Drewe - I believe he is more of a right back but made his full debut playing at left back. i just think we need to blood some, or loan them out, or release them.
Beale - probably both - found out and lost the dressing room - but like I say, who the hell really knows.

[powerpump]

Well folks I need to be perfectly honest as I always try to be.
I have to say I am totally underwhelmed by our manager.
I really hope he proves me wrong!

[robindubois]

Jan 31, 2023 0:38:57 GMT egranger said:

No one was complaining about the recruitment at the club when we were top of the league.
To criticise Les, Chris Ramsey and Lee Hoos is not to recognise the mess we were in before they stepped in.
They have turned the club around in the last few years and made it an enjoyable club to be around.
We must get behind our current management and accept that it will take time to turn the current run of results around.
We may have played poorly at Hull but the home matches v Sheffield United and Swansea could easily have been home wins and we would be looking up to the play off positions.
I find some of the comments very disappointing and would ask that you are realistic this season and get behind the team

Agree completely and that takes me back to the players taking responsibility. 

We still have players who were part of the team under Warburton that pushed into the play-offs but then completely switched off for the second half of the season. Sure we had some bad injuries but one of the points Warburton made was that players are not doing what they had been told to do in training and questioned commitment. Did Warburton suddenly become a bad coach, did LF Ramsey (who has little if anything to do with the first team) cause the team to switch off. We are told there were other behind the scenes issues among the managers but on the field it is the players responsibility to do the job they are paid for.

Then we get to this season, brilliant start top of the table under Beale and then it all fell apart even before Beale left. The bad run started under Beale and his big complaint after those games was not injury or anything other than a lack commitment from the players, poor attitude and players not doing what they had been trained and told to do. So did Beale suddenly become a bad manager or were the backroom staff responsible for the players change in attitude?

Along comes Critchley - not a great start but the thing he keeps repeating is that the players are good enough and have the talent but they just are not doing what they are told and are lacking in commitment and obviously now confidence. It was obvious in recent games no more so than at Hull where we could see the coach shouting instructions, telling players to push forward or wider - and the players totally ignored him and strolled around playing training ground knock about and gifting soft goals.

Now given that 3 successive managers have had  the same complaint about player attitude etc is it down to them being bad managers or is there something else in the squad. Maybe agents or clubs tapping people up,  low salaries , squad players being disgruntled when they are not picked and influencing the team spirit. I really do not know.

So those who say change all the management in the summer and stop changing the players- why were you not saying that when we were top of the league? Would those changes really help if we have the same core of players who are not performing to their ability now.

We have 5 potentially 6 loans - they will, with one exception, go in the summer so we will see the team churn again. If we replace the whole management structure who do we get in, will they be any different, will they be able to change player mentality? I doubt it. Plus why would we get rid of Ramsey - one of the recognised best coaches in the game of youth and young talent.

The "Strategy" that many fans plead for is to give youth a chance, bring young players through. But in the championship that does not work. Teams need some experience, hard heads and leaders to balance the talent of the Willocks and Chairs of this world. There are many teams in this division who man for man are less talented than our lot but they have players who have been round the block, get stuck in and fight and provide some leadership. It is this sort of players and coaches who have worked out easily how to stop our creative players. 

If we had Johansen with Field and Balogun playing it would be a start of balancing the team. The much criticised Dykes at least gives his all to the point of running himself into hospital. Without these sort of players we have talent but on match day it is our boys against men and they roll over far too easily. 

What is the solution - for now the only way is for Critchley to kick a few up the backside, maybe make a few changes and get them playing to their ability as we saw at the start of the season. Do I think that is possible - yes and if not I still support the team coach managers and club through thick and thin as I have always done. 

[blatantfowl]

Today is pivotal. I hope NC gets a chance to freshen up a couple of positions and with players returning from injury he turns it around.

I sadly predict it will go the other way. NC will leave and in desperation we will appoint Ollie in a short contract til end of season for his 3rd stint. He’ll do it with sheer positivity and getting his arms round the squad. It will be bumpy but he’ll keep us up and we’ll replace him in the summer.

[maude]

Those blue and white hoops though 😁

[blatantfowl]

Jan 31, 2023 21:55:57 GMT maude said:

Those blue and white hoops though 😁

Ain’t that the truth brother! welcome back Maude. 👍🏻

[dan]

I’m with nomar here. Plenty of CHEAP talent in the US. They would sign a contract in a second! Yet we don’t offer. We should think outside of the box. The worst that happens, we have players on the cheap who are thinking bigger goals.

[dan]

I’m with nomar here. Plenty of CHEAP talent in the US. They would sign a contract in a second! Yet we don’t offer. We should think outside of the box. The worst that happens, we have players on the cheap who are thinking bigger goals.

[harr]

Oh well Critchley got no reinforcements, shame, thought he might get one addition, the loans we have are killing us as Jan is the time when you pick up loans and we have enough already, that and the fact we can’t offload Roberts until the end of the year.
Niko out on loan until the end of year, still havnt managed to fully offload, same for Shodipo. Still have Kakay on the books.
Thomas offloaded and bought by Cambridge Utd.
The window consisted of us getting Lowe in, maybe he cost all the 1.5 Million of Beales contract and the 300K from Chairs World Cup.
Another season of mediocrity then.
Let’s hope we have enough in this bunch to compete with Huddersfield and Millwall in the next two games as two more losses and things will suddenly look much different in the table.
The good thing is the four teams at the bottom look poor, saying they have all just either got new Managers or players so you never know one or two might pick up, I guess you can say the same about us, this run can’t go on much longer can it?
We said the same last year and it went on 3-4 months.
The next thing about transfer deadline yesterday was Luton beating Cardiff.
More and more fans start to get disillusioned now about what’s going on at QPR , you can pick that up from the amount of fans starting to save money in really hard earnt times and going to games they normally would.
Still nothing from the owners in any shape or form…..very strange times at the minute…. probably made all the worse with how well Fulham and Brentford are currently doing.
Oh well it is what it is, at the end of the day only a game of football.

[robindubois]

Surprise surprise - money grabbing Nico only goes on loan again. Why would he agree to a transfer to Scotland or Belgium on an 12 month contract after which he would be out of work when he can go on loan, no responsibility maybe play a game or 2 and come back knowing he has another 2 years contract with us. Shows to me he is only interested in the money and not football.

On the other side which idiot gave him another 4 years. Some reports at the time said Beale liked him and thought he had potential - lots of other managers have said the same until he played a few games and dropped out of view. Must have a good agent.

While everyone is moaning about our not unexpected lack of signings (not unexpected by those who understand finance and FFP) we should also note that none of our 'better" players left or as far as we know even attracted a bid apart from the Millwall attempt to get Dykes.

Now is the time for Critchley to lay it on the line to the players that they are here for the rest of the season and if they hope to move on to better things they had better start playing football again.

So the window is over - can we still pick up a free agent? - there are plenty around. Time to hibernate again and I will stick with my prediction league forecast - we will win every game 2-0. I must be right once this season

[harr]

Some of the long contracts we gave Niko, Kakay and Shodipo is mind blowingly bad business, has to stop, killing us in this League.
How about sorting out the contracts on the ones we want to keep or if we do sell at least get something for them.
Getting nothing for BOS , now valued at near 10 million still haunts me, Manning another.
I hope Critchley gets the respect from the players he deserves, it’s shocking how the players have reacted since Beales departure, like spoilt kids.
Expecting fans to go and watch them with performances like last week and Luton and Cardiffs.
It’s as if they don’t even want to bother to make the trip to away games.

[robindubois]

Well if we think we have something to worry about just look at Everton. In the relegation zone, new manager appointed too late to use the window, sold their top scorer (who makes Dykes look prolific) and signed absolutely no-one.

Then look at Chelsea - if it goes through they just spent over 100 million on one player - is that FFP.

[harr]

As we know though FFP is never going to affect the big boys they can carry on in that league and do what they want.
We just have to get on with it.
The most saddening thing is the way the team has capitulated exactly like it did last year.
Which begs the question when it happened last year under Warburton, was it just the players who couldn’t be bothered.

[robindubois]

Feb 1, 2023 10:26:26 GMT harr said:

As we know though FFP is never going to affect the big boys they can carry on in that league and do what they want.
We just have to get on with it.
The most saddening thing is the way the team has capitulated exactly like it did last year.
Which begs the question when it happened last year under Warburton, was it just the players who couldn’t be bothered.

As they say you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink. Maybe our players think they deserved champagne after a good start and turned their noses up at water.

Then of course there is the no point hitting your head against a brick wall saying - if the players ignore their coaches instructions for months what will a coach do - give up or change the players - if he has the money and management backing to change them.

Football used to be such an easy game until player power and Sky (ie money) came along. 

[maude]

I’ve missed this .
Brilliant debates and proper opinions.

[Lonegunmen]

Feb 1, 2023 13:56:37 GMT robindubois said:

Feb 1, 2023 10:26:26 GMT harr said:

As we know though FFP is never going to affect the big boys they can carry on in that league and do what they want.
We just have to get on with it.
The most saddening thing is the way the team has capitulated exactly like it did last year.
Which begs the question when it happened last year under Warburton, was it just the players who couldn’t be bothered.

As they say you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink. Maybe our players think they deserved champagne after a good start and turned their noses up at water.

Then of course there is the no point hitting your head against a brick wall saying - if the players ignore their coaches instructions for months what will a coach do - give up or change the players - if he has the money and management backing to change them.

Football used to be such an easy game until player power and Sky (ie money) came along. 

I'd like to correct you on one point. Football never existed prior to 1992 when Sky TV created a game and decided to televise it to the masses for a fee. What happened prior to that was a ball game that had loyalty, skill, crap pitches and World Cup winners, but it wasn't known as real football. I hope that clears it up for you.