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Post by bowranger on May 8, 2017 13:04:05 GMT
These are the same players that Ollie said were the right type & were all good players. And that was only eight weeks ago! What has changed since then to the players? Maybe, just maybe, the main problem is the management? I could not agree more. The messages he is sending out are confusing and contradictory. When we were on our good run 10 games ago Ollie was full of taking credit for getting rid of the bad uns, getting the "right sort", all the players playing for the shirt and for each other, all the players running etc etc.
After yesterday he starts with washing over a hammering with "the players tried their best they gave everything" quotes and then turns around a couple of hours later to "I need to change the players , get in the right sort (again).
Only 3 weeks ago Ollie and LF were saying it would be quiet summer , just looking to add 2 or 3 players (which I think is not enough) and now its down to asking for a major turnover (again)
Sounds to me like either he has lost the dressing room already never mind by Christmas or more simply he does not know what he is doing. He had a good season with us (in the First Division) and had a miracle season with Blackpool when he was lucky enough to have young players like Ince and Phillips playing at the top of their game, which they have never matched since. Apart from that what has he really achieved in management especially at the higher levels of the game?. Yes he took over a decent Palace team for half a season and saw them promoted with a play-off victory then had to quit after 10 games in the PL as he was not up to the job.
We recently lost 6 in a row and then lost 7 of our last 8 games. I just cannot see where he is taking us at the moment other than down a league.
Think that's harsh as it's basically heaping it all on his shoulders when it's gone poorly and then removed credit from him when it's gone well. There's nothing "lucky" about Holloway having Ince and Phillips. He signed Phillips after tracking him for a while, picking up a League One player with real talent for relative peanuts. Bear in mind that this is a player at Wycombe, a club QPR have links with but ignored whilst Ollie was identifying signings like that for £350k raising to £700k when we shelled out £5 million on him. Now he's a regular in a top 10 Premier League team so it's not fair to write him off as having never matched that quality since, no matter how frustrating he was at QPR. If anything he's exceeded that. And Tom Ince never played for Blackpool during their promotion season or their time in the Premier League, so that had nothing to do with the "miracle season". He was not a Blackpool player (though it was Ollie who subsequently bought him to the club following their relegation after Liverpool didn't want him). If a manager can't take credit for players playing well who he himself signed then I despair really. I'm not saying Ollie is definitively the right person for the job or that some QPR fans don't look at him through rose-tinted glasses. By all means, think of him as crap, clueless and taking us down a league. But don't rob his very genuine and respectable victories off him, that's just revisionist and unfair. Those stats are straight from Wiki and they look right. Even Millwall sacked him after losing 5 out of 6 on their way down. Also just add on that he spent 18 months out of the management game - that's a long time in football and the game and coaching has moved on. I question why he was out for that long. Better money from Sky, not interested in managerial jobs, no club wanted him. Who knows. One of Ollie's biggest strengths and weaknesses is how emotional he gets about his job. So combine that with the pressure of management that any manager feels and being in the public eye. He's been here half a season with one transfer window when we are tightening our belts more than ever and people are already saying all he can do is relegate us and that his previous achievements were essentially down to luck or exaggerated. I've not been happy with how this season has gone or how Ollie has tinkered with the team in recent weeks but you wonder why on earth someone like him would want to get out of professional football management facing that level of judgement from a passionate public? You couldn't pay me enough to manage QPR.
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Post by harr on May 8, 2017 13:09:21 GMT
Those stats are straight from Wiki and they look right. Even Millwall sacked him after losing 5 out of 6 on their way down. Also just add on that he spent 18 months out of the management game - that's a long time in football and the game and coaching has moved on. I question why he was out for that long. Better money from Sky, not interested in managerial jobs, no club wanted him. Who knows. The bottom line now is what he does in the summer. I do not like the new talk of moving more players out and will be extremely interested in who he brings in. If he brings in more "runners" then we will be in trouble - what we need is a bit of skill to go with the effort. We have some skilful players, some have been under utilised probably because they may not match Ollies like for runners. If he pushes them out, as I fear he will, we will be taking another step backwards - and backwards from where we are is only one place. So it will be an interesting summer transfer window and Ollie and the team will be under the microscope from day one of the new season. How much easier it would have been for him if we had finished the season well. I fully agree with all this. (So it will be an interesting summer transfer window and Ollie and the team will be under the microscope from day one of the new season. How much easier it would have been for him if we had finished the season well.) I dont think our owners would hesitate to change things in even November if we were sitting in bottom 3-4 and I wouldnt blame them. He doesnt have to start the season running but more like a slow jog. I will back him at the start but as much as I love Ollie as a former player and former Manager I will judge him in this current Managerial spell where we are after a few months of 17-18 season. I would really like to keep him for the whole season, so hope he brings in a couple of diamonds and we finish mid table or better. Real concerns though with these two blocks of zero points from 18. No points from a possible 36 points is mind blowing even if we did have a good run in between.
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Post by bowranger on May 8, 2017 14:10:44 GMT
Those stats are straight from Wiki and they look right. Even Millwall sacked him after losing 5 out of 6 on their way down. Also just add on that he spent 18 months out of the management game - that's a long time in football and the game and coaching has moved on. I question why he was out for that long. Better money from Sky, not interested in managerial jobs, no club wanted him. Who knows. The bottom line now is what he does in the summer. I do not like the new talk of moving more players out and will be extremely interested in who he brings in. If he brings in more "runners" then we will be in trouble - what we need is a bit of skill to go with the effort. We have some skilful players, some have been under utilised probably because they may not match Ollies like for runners. If he pushes them out, as I fear he will, we will be taking another step backwards - and backwards from where we are is only one place. So it will be an interesting summer transfer window and Ollie and the team will be under the microscope from day one of the new season. How much easier it would have been for him if we had finished the season well. I fully agree with all this. (So it will be an interesting summer transfer window and Ollie and the team will be under the microscope from day one of the new season. How much easier it would have been for him if we had finished the season well.) I dont think our owners would hesitate to change things in even November if we were sitting in bottom 3-4 and I wouldnt blame them. He doesnt have to start the season running but more like a slow jog. I will back him at the start but as much as I love Ollie as a former player and former Manager I will judge him in this current Managerial spell where we are after a few months of 17-18 season. I would really like to keep him for the whole season, so hope he brings in a couple of diamonds and we finish mid table or better. Real concerns though with these two blocks of zero points from 18. No points from a possible 36 points is mind blowing even if we did have a good run in between. I just find this hard to get though. You've said yourself, looking at JFH and Ramsey's records and then Ollie's and being worried even more. Ramsey got sacked in November and then JFH barely did any better. JFH gets sacked in November and then Ollie does slightly worse. All those previous managers, as you keep pointing out, weren't performing well enough on that basis and they went, partially due to fan pressure. To me that says the process of sacking managers in November after their first full transfer window doesn't work as a matter of club policy, so why do we assume it would work again if Ollie did have the club in the bottom four come November? Cardiff were fourth bottom in November 2016 and Brum were 7th - a lot of things can and will happen. But yeah, I don't get how you can say you want him to last a season and then spend a fair chunk of the time saying that whoever is in the hot seat isn't statistically good enough for the job come November and should get the chop. With the club and squad as it is and our history, I don't see how that's a good approach for us. By all means, if we're bottom of the Championship and look irretrievable because the players have fundamentally revolted or something, any manager has to go but I've not seen that under either Ramsey, JFH or Ollie and yet here we are, still knocking about in the bottom half of the Championship.
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Post by harr on May 8, 2017 14:45:10 GMT
I fully agree with all this. (So it will be an interesting summer transfer window and Ollie and the team will be under the microscope from day one of the new season. How much easier it would have been for him if we had finished the season well.) I dont think our owners would hesitate to change things in even November if we were sitting in bottom 3-4 and I wouldnt blame them. He doesnt have to start the season running but more like a slow jog. I will back him at the start but as much as I love Ollie as a former player and former Manager I will judge him in this current Managerial spell where we are after a few months of 17-18 season. I would really like to keep him for the whole season, so hope he brings in a couple of diamonds and we finish mid table or better. Real concerns though with these two blocks of zero points from 18. No points from a possible 36 points is mind blowing even if we did have a good run in between. I just find this hard to get though. You've said yourself, looking at JFH and Ramsey's records and then Ollie's and being worried even more. Ramsey got sacked in November and then JFH barely did any better. JFH gets sacked in November and then Ollie does slightly worse. All those previous managers, as you keep pointing out, weren't performing well enough on that basis and they went, partially due to fan pressure. To me that says the process of sacking managers in November after their first full transfer window doesn't work as a matter of club policy, so why do we assume it would work again if Ollie did have the club in the bottom four come November? Cardiff were fourth bottom in November 2016 and Brum were 7th - a lot of things can and will happen. But yeah, I don't get how you can say you want him to last a season and then spend a fair chunk of the time saying that whoever is in the hot seat isn't statistically good enough for the job come November and should get the chop. With the club and squad as it is and our history, I don't see how that's a good approach for us. By all means, if we're bottom of the Championship and look irretrievable because the players have fundamentally revolted or something, any manager has to go but I've not seen that under either Ramsey, JFH or Ollie and yet here we are, still knocking about in the bottom half of the Championship. I guess team performance will come into it aswell Bow. If we are consistently playing poorly. I really hope Ollie plays a settled team next year, stopping all this tinkering every week, Im sure his trying to outfox some teams by over complicating which in turn causes more problems. Ollie will get my backing for now but Im sorry if we are in the bottom 3-4 towards the end of 2017, it will be because we are averaging a point a game still after another 20-25 games. That will be 50-55 games at a point a game., which in no other terms is bottom three material. Lets face it, JFH points average saved QPR this season as Rowetts saved Birminghams. Are we at the stage to accept we are bottom of the table Championship team now? Well I am not there just yet, although another season qnd I could be.
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Post by Ashdown_Ranger on May 8, 2017 14:45:48 GMT
All true Bow, but each successive manager also had 'worse' players to manage, so is the team's performance down to management incompetence, or player skill levels?
We've tried chop-and-change and gone progressively backwards for 3 years.
Perhaps the biggest mistake in that time is not signing Warnock up after his short second stint with us.
Anyway, we are where we are, so let's give stability and growth a chance.
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Post by harr on May 8, 2017 14:53:54 GMT
All true Bow, but each successive manager also had 'worse' players to manage, so is the team's performance down to management incompetence, or player skill levels? We've tried chop-and-change and gone progressively backwards for 3 years. Perhaps the biggest mistake in that time is not signing Warnock up after his short second stint with us. Anyway, we are where we are, so let's give stability and growth a chance. Agh the ' S 'word Stability..... 20th Prem > Championship 12 th > Championship 18 th> ? to be continued and with our last year of parachute payment.
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Post by Ashdown_Ranger on May 8, 2017 15:10:34 GMT
Harr - I meant 'stability' as in not panicking and jumping ship as soon as something goes wrong. From having players of the calibre of Austin, Phillips, Fer and Sandro (under Redknapp and then Ramsey), we now have very much less skilled/proven players - so perhaps it's no surprise we've tumbled down the league. Not sure that's Ollie's fault - it's just the hand he's been dealt? Yes, he started playing Tinkerman before we were safe. But he's got to be worth sticking with, surely? If he isn't, I can't see too many 'must have' replacements out there - though I notice Dave Jones is available...
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Post by londonranger on May 8, 2017 15:29:12 GMT
Without Smithies, I think we would have gone down. The games I saw, we consistently looked like we belonged in the lower division.
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Post by bowranger on May 8, 2017 15:36:38 GMT
All true Bow, but each successive manager also had 'worse' players to manage, so is the team's performance down to management incompetence, or player skill levels? We've tried chop-and-change and gone progressively backwards for 3 years. Perhaps the biggest mistake in that time is not signing Warnock up after his short second stint with us. Anyway, we are where we are, so let's give stability and growth a chance. I'm not sure. To me, I think it's a mix of stuff. Predominantly that we're transitioning with players who are probably at about lower/mid-Championship status (with some definite exceptions) who have the ability to improve if nurtured properly. Under Ollie we've seen that that group of players, when setup properly, can perform at a higher standard than that (e.g. Reading and Leeds away) but also debatably even worse than that standard (particularly Norwich and Brentford away) - so management is a factor too. Gelling and settling is a big part of it - lack of consistency both in terms of player transfers, managers and formations. I'm not saying we're at our level now - we should aspire for better - but I don't think we're a managerial appointment or 2 signings away from being loads better. I agree about stability and growth - it may or may not work but we've not actually stuck with anything for longer than a year since the club went through a massive financial overhaul. We seem to stick with that agenda off the pitch a fair bit and then deviate when it comes to the squad and manager. The Warnock thing is moot I reckon - he was definitely not interested when he had his short stint with us. Personally felt that the way he set the team up during that stint was no better than we saw under JFH stylistically - barely any attacking intent and that win away at Reading basically from Al-Habsi dropping the ball into his own net (which was proper funny). Bottom line is that he openly said he did not want the job long-term. We couldn't have signed him up even if we wanted to.
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Post by gladstoneparkranger on May 8, 2017 16:34:13 GMT
Think it's no coincidence that our form dipped when Hall was injured . He's our best defensive midfielder and defender, we really need another very capable defensive midfielder / centre back so we don't mis him so much.
January signings I was and still am very pleased with , so happy for Olly to work his magic again !
The squad is simply not strong enough in depth .. I still have faith in Olly to turn us around.
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Post by Ashdown_Ranger on May 8, 2017 17:09:48 GMT
Think it's no coincidence that our form dipped when Hall was injured... The squad is simply not strong enough in depth. And that, I think, sums it up - whoever the manager.
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Post by harr on May 8, 2017 19:04:15 GMT
Think it's no coincidence that our form dipped when Hall was injured... The squad is simply not strong enough in depth. And that, I think, sums it up - whoever the manager. So one player gets injured and then we lose lose lose. Its a squad game, when someone gets injured you get someone motivated to do the role, thats the job of the coaches. I'm certainly not saying get rid of Ollie now but if we go on this one point a game for another 4-5 months, expect me to be on the bandwagon of needing someone different. Ollie has not been dealt a bad hand at all, he just needs to start getting the best from what he has got.
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Post by Ashdown_Ranger on May 8, 2017 19:14:43 GMT
That's the reality of where we are Harr.
Ollie has to strengthen the squad. With the financial constraints we're now operating under, that could be tricky - and maybe we just have to accept we're not going to be challenging for promotion anytime soon and hope we can at least hang on to our Championship status.
New scouting setup, improved facilities (in the next couple of years hopefully) should be able to attract decent players.
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Post by harr on May 8, 2017 19:30:23 GMT
That's the reality of where we are Harr. Ollie has to strengthen the squad. With the financial constraints we're now operating under, that could be tricky - and maybe we just have to accept we're not going to be challenging for promotion anytime soon and hope we can at least hang on to our Championship status. New scouting setup, improved facilities (in the next couple of years hopefully) should be able to attract decent players. Amazing how things have changed though in recent months, only a few months ago Les saying playoffs were our target. Now it seems not finishing in the bottom three is our target. Instead of 70 points its now 50. When did this happen exactly? At present of course im in the stick with Ollie boat, which is probably something like 60/40 in his favour if we had a poll. However 20 + plus games of a point a game average, that would soon change to 40/60 or even far worse, so lets see how he starts the new season.
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Post by gladstoneparkranger on May 9, 2017 0:57:11 GMT
That's the reality of where we are Harr. Ollie has to strengthen the squad. With the financial constraints we're now operating under, that could be tricky - and maybe we just have to accept we're not going to be challenging for promotion anytime soon and hope we can at least hang on to our Championship status. New scouting setup, improved facilities (in the next couple of years hopefully) should be able to attract decent players. Amazing how things have changed though in recent months, only a few months ago Les saying playoffs were our target. Now it seems not finishing in the bottom three is our target. Instead of 70 points its now 50. When did this happen exactly? At present of course im in the stick with Ollie boat, which is probably something like 60/40 in his favour if we had a poll. However 20 + plus games of a point a game average, that would soon change to 40/60 or even far worse, so lets see how he starts the new season. De ja vu ... We are in a very similar situation as we were before Warlock:) added Hill and Derry . Think we are not that far from a good squad but with additions and commanders.
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Post by harr on May 9, 2017 6:41:19 GMT
Amazing how things have changed though in recent months, only a few months ago Les saying playoffs were our target. Now it seems not finishing in the bottom three is our target. Instead of 70 points its now 50. When did this happen exactly? At present of course im in the stick with Ollie boat, which is probably something like 60/40 in his favour if we had a poll. However 20 + plus games of a point a game average, that would soon change to 40/60 or even far worse, so lets see how he starts the new season. De ja vu ... We are in a very similar situation as we were before Warlock:) added Hill and Derry . Think we are not that far from a good squad but with additions and commanders. Big big difference, when Warnock joined I seem to remember we were close or in the bottom three. He came in straight away and got wins and took us to mid table safety with ease in about 3-4 months. Check out NW points per game whn he came in against Ollies 30 from 30, my guess is much better. Then straight after that he gained promotion. The big difference here is Ollie had longer than Warnock halfway thro a season yet made us fall even further down. Not a good comparison really.
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Post by harr on May 9, 2017 6:52:57 GMT
I had a quick check Gladstone.
Warnock had 14 games to turn us around not a luxury of 30 games.
Ollie 30 points 30 games. 1 point a game 46 points ( relegation in a full season if this season ) Ollie joined 17 th, finished 18 th.
Warnock 20 points 14 games 1.42 ponts per game 66 points in a season average When Warnock joined 20 th, finished season 13th. Not a comparison for me.
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Post by Ashdown_Ranger on May 9, 2017 9:43:56 GMT
Definitely a comparison... ...just not a good one! And well said 57 about Henry.
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Post by nomar on May 9, 2017 11:58:42 GMT
Its hard to tell for sure because it genuinely looked like the lads mailed it in every week after the Rotherham victory.
But, they were able to get the result against Forest when they needed it, which suggests they're capable enough of holding their own in this league.
What happened down the stretch here doesn't necessarily have any bearing on what will happen next season, so I'm not rushing to any snap judgements here.
Lets see what happens in the summer for one thing. August is 3 months away and no one knows yet who's going to be good and who's going to be bad next season.
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Post by gladstoneparkranger on May 9, 2017 13:42:39 GMT
My point was more our position at the time but with key areas addressed the following season we were promoted with very little tinkering and not comparing the managers performance! ... I'm not saying we are going to be promoted but if Olly brings in the same calibre of player as he did in January then I'll be a lot more hopeful for the upcoming season
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Post by Ashdown_Ranger on May 10, 2017 9:36:20 GMT
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Post by bowranger on May 10, 2017 11:40:50 GMT
I love him to bits but I just don't think it would be worth it. For one, if he's not even being considered for another season at Rangers even as a squad player (and they are pretty awful), I just don't think he'd get a game and/or would be what we need. I'm all for having people like him around the dressing room as he exemplifies what QPR are about in many ways, but I just don't see a footballing argument for it sadly.
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Post by sharky on May 10, 2017 15:15:30 GMT
From westlondonsport www.westlondonsport.com/features-comment/gossip-qpr-linked-swindon-man-along-ipswich-charlton-portsmouthTransfer gossip: QPR linked with Swindon defenderBy West London Sport 10/05/2017 Some of the recent transfer speculation involving QPR. QPR are among a number of clubs interested in Swindon captain Nathan Thompson, it is claimed. Thompson’s contract expires this summer and he will be available on a Bosman free transfer if he does not sign a new deal at the County Ground. Sky Sports News HQ believe the 26-year-old defender will move on and claim the clubs keen on him include QPR. Ipswich, Charlton, Rotherham and Portsmouth are also said to be interested in him. Thompson has been with Swindon his entire career and has made 167 league appearances for the Robins.
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Post by Ashdown_Ranger on May 12, 2017 6:19:11 GMT
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Post by harr on May 12, 2017 6:29:03 GMT
(That means sometimes it’s going to be tough, particularly for us) Its tough for a lot of teams in the Football League, not just us, get on with it.
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Post by sharky on May 12, 2017 7:42:33 GMT
Rumoured that Warnock may pick him up as cover at Cardiff? ?. I suppose in Goalkeeper terms he is not too old At 32 a veritable youngster as a keeper!
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Post by Lonegunmen on May 12, 2017 20:56:57 GMT
I always thought he was about 5 inches too short for a keeper. He was very good at all aspects of his game but needed that height advantage.
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Post by Macmoish on May 13, 2017 18:54:52 GMT
Clint Hill talking today
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Post by sharky on May 13, 2017 22:46:11 GMT
From the Daily Record www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-defender-clint-hill-admits-10415790Rangers defender Clint Hill admits he is leaving Ibrox with a heavy heartThe 38-year-old defender has been one of the few bright sparks this season and says he would have liked to stay on at the club if it was up to him. BY RECORD SPORT ONLINE 16:56, 13 MAY 2017 Clint Hill admits he is disappointed to be leaving Rangers at the end of the season after turning in a man-of-the-match display in Saturday's 2-1 win against Hearts. The 38-year-old defender has been one of the few bright sparks this season for the Ibrox side, and the former QPR defender was in no hurry to leave if it was up to him. Record Sport Online confirmed earlier this week that Pedro Caixinha will allow Hill and Swiss stopper Phillipe Senderos to move on. Hill says there is no hard feelings and hopes the club return to the top of Scottish football in the near future. He said: "I will be moving on unfortunately. "It has been hard on the pitch in terms of performances but it has been brilliant for me to play at this club, and to play in front of the fans has been a big highlight for me. "Obviously you are a little bit disappointed (at no deal) because when you play at such a big club you want it to last as long as possible. ADVERTISEMENT "But I have been in football long enough to know that when a new manager comes in they have different ideas, so I am just trying to enjoy every minute as if it's my last. "I can only wish the club all the best and hopefully see them get back to the top sooner rather than later." Meanwhile, Rangers boss Pedro Caixinha says all his focus in the final two games of the season is emerging victorious. The Ibrox men are six points behind Aberdeen but it looks impossible they could catch their rivals due to their far inferior goal difference. He said: "Win my friend. Win. "It is going to be the last working week before a short period of vacation and we return again. "The working week is ready. I am always working in advance and depending on what is going on, I make some changes after I analyse the game. But it is about winning. "We want to finish well and until the last moment they are here and I am here, we can think only about winning."
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Post by nomar on May 15, 2017 12:46:17 GMT
Its a testament to him that he is still playing at 38.
He's a QPR legend and one of the players we should have built our Prem team around instead of p*ssing money at complete effing wasters like that ex Chelsea defender whose name I refuse to use in a thread honoring Clint Hill.
Happy trails Clint.
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