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Post by 0hwestlondon on Dec 21, 2011 22:55:20 GMT
that as put me on a right downer, i cant believe we chucked it away after getting back in the game, terrible defending again, bad mistakes again, that is not NW"S fault, players have to take responsabillity as well, NW out my arse, lets not turn into blackburn fans, kean is a muppet, NW has actually done things for our club, like give us our belief back after fifteen years of basically having none, so if you people want to start giving the manager stick at games then be prepared for the outcome, which will be the players going out as tense as a south korean who lives on the border with the north, also if players start seeing the fans are against the manager they wont sign for us, why would they, they sign results dont improve manager gets sacked the players that have signed might not be the new managers cup of tea, players think of these things before they sign for a club, and they wont sign for one they see as unstable, so we have to stick together, otherwise relegation is a cert.
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Post by nomar on Dec 21, 2011 22:56:47 GMT
Some serious over reaction going on here.
First, has it dawned on some of you that maybe NW was playing 4-5-1 because he was trying to protect a defence he already knew was vulnerable because of missing key players? It didn't work, but I suspect he was hoping the 5 in MF would compensate for the 2 donkeys in the centre of defence.
Regarding the preposterous notion that TF somehow doesn't trust NW with his money and hence the reason why Warnock has now said he wants some loan players. Are you flippin serious?
NW has gone on record talking about loan players because he said he doesn't want to pay inflated January prices. Everyone in football knows that you pay over the odds for players in January and much more than you'd pay for the same player in the summer.
He said he wants to do his next major transfer dealings in the next summer window and, lest ye forget, he really didn't have that luxury afforded to him this summer.
Guys like Gabbidon, Dyer and Bothroyd are here because the last regime gave him no budget at all to buy players with. Faced with that handicap he could either do one of two things: Keep the Championship team as it was and play that every week, or try and find some players with Premier League experience that he could get on free transfers, in the hope that they'd be-even if ever so slightly-improvements on what he already had.
If TF never came we'd be lucky to be on 6 points let alone 16 by now.
And I think you'll find that TF, Bhatia et al are fully supportive of Neil and will open the purse strings in 11 days time to ensure that NW is given the opportunity to put together a 25 man squad that doesn't rely on Championship level talent when injuries hit us.
Am I disappointed about tonight's result? Yes, you bet I am. But I also know that, unlike the previous management of this club, the current board will spare no expense to make sure they bring in players they believe will win enough games to keep us up.
The season isn't over yet and these blips will happen to the teams above us at the moment too. Its time to get behind the team and NW, not do what Blackburn fans are doing and slowly start ripping the club apart from the inside out!
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Post by Macmoish on Dec 21, 2011 23:09:43 GMT
I'm trying to think why we're even playing in the Premiership this season. Oh yes: Neil Warnock.
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tom007
Dave Sexton
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Post by tom007 on Dec 21, 2011 23:11:54 GMT
a lot is said about taraabt is a good championship player but not good enough for the premiership. maybe just maybe with the track record of in twice and straight back down twice the same could just apply to the manager. do we do a blackburn and wait until it is too late to change. i dont know where these great tactics come from our tactics are non existent just look at the goals conceded tonight that should tell you how good our tactics are. sides know how we are going to play and even at home we are like the away side and to a side that was below us.mmm everyone was saying how long has kean at blackburn got the other month.
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Post by Macmoish on Dec 21, 2011 23:13:50 GMT
I don't think anyone believes Warnock is a great Premiership manager. But he certainly is miles ahead of Kean!
And axing Warnock has an awful lot of downsides and negatives
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Post by paddymace on Dec 21, 2011 23:23:41 GMT
A good start, a poor 1/2 hour, a magnifcent 20 minutes and the rest average, Ok, standard.
TF and Amit seem to have the club at heart, in which case they should do just enough to have a crack at staying up and not mortgage our future with big contracts on OK, but, not great players and put us right back to the the trials and tribulations that started in 1997.
Let's face it, we're in a dog fight, but, we were always going to be. Rather a dog fight with financial stability that a financial shithouse somewhere in the Coca Cola.
I'm not sure that Colin is totally in control, but, we must stick with him, now and in the event of relegation. He has bloody well earnt that.
And we need to get behind the team, not wait for an excuse like tonight. For 15 minutes we were buzzing in the crowd, like we were against City and the other lot for 90 minutes. The players deserve that.
On a positive, I thought Barton and Adel worked really well together and, hopefully, Colin has got the message that he has to play our most creative player (at least at home). Traore continues to be the best left back I think I can remember since Gills, Faurlin was back to his best, Heidar has retained the knack, Jamie's endevour has been rewarded with a goal and Paddy's fit. And finally, we showed proper passion and bottle after going 2.0 down.
On the downside, SWP was very ordinary again (and Colin recognised that too!), we are short of quality at centre half without Ferdinand (but we knew that) and Derry is probably best in a 5 in midfield away from home.
Sunderland are on a bounce and that is just tough titty for us (I thought they looked a good side actually).
I fancy us to nick a win at Swansea, show up and perform (but lose at Arsenal) at give that horrible yellow lot a good hiding on the 2nd.
Most importantly I will TF et al, to not play silly buggers and have a plan in place that will stabilise our great club no matter what division we're playing in next season.
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Post by harlowranger on Dec 21, 2011 23:26:11 GMT
Some good points Nomar and the 6 points before TF came possibly ,but lets come away from TF , Warnocks had alot more money than the other promoted teams. They are playing pretty much settled teams we keep changing, they are showing more passion to stay in this league , why , hungrier players ? . Derry in again really , what benefit did that give us tried it 3 times already and every time it failed of late. Warnocks done alot of things wrong in the last month or so , handled things poorly , let Barton run the show etc etc and now he says cant wait for the window , whos he going to attract when you pick up 1 point in 15 , he probably lost his best three candidates already . I'm not saying change him for one minute but im saying this isnt all the Players doing this time he has to take responsibility for some of these glaring errors.
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Post by Macmoish on Dec 21, 2011 23:26:17 GMT
A good start, a poor 1/2 hour, a magnifcent 20 minutes and the rest average, Ok, standard. TF and Amit seem to have the club at heart, in which case they should do just enough to have a crack at staying up and not mortgage our future with big contracts on OK, but, not great players and put us right back to the the trials and tribulations that started in 1997. Let's face it, we're in a dog fight, but, we were always going to be. Rather a dog fight with financial stability that a financial shithouse somewhere in the Coca Cola. I'm not sure that Colin is totally in control, but, we must stick with him, now and in the event of relegation. He has bloody well earnt that. And we need to get behind the team, not wait for an excuse like tonight. For 15 minutes we were buzzing in the crowd, like we were against City and the other lot for 90 minutes. The players deserve that. On a positive, I thought Barton and Adel worked really well together and, hopefully, Colin has got the message that he has to play our most creative player (at least at home). Traore continues to be the best left back I think I can remember since Gills, Faurlin was back to his best, Heidar has retained the knack, Jamie's endevour has been rewarded with a goal and Paddy's fit. And finally, we showed proper passion and bottle after going 2.0 down. On the downside, SWP was very ordinary again (and Colin recognised that too!), we are short of quality at centre half without Ferdinand (but we knew that) and Derry is probably best in a 5 in midfield away from home. Sunderland are on a bounce and that is just tough titty for us (I thought they looked a good side actually). I fancy us to nick a win at Swansea, show up and perform (but lose at Arsenal) at give that horrible yellow lot a good hiding on the 2nd. Most importantly I will TF et al, to not play silly buggers and have a plan in place that will stabilise our great club no matter what division we're playing in next season. Good stuff. I agree. We have to be FINANCIALLY prepared for relegation> Too many clubs, even with parachute payments have gotten screwed. And I think Fernandes and Bhatia and Beard are sensible people.
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Post by 0hwestlondon on Dec 21, 2011 23:26:29 GMT
If i am at a game and some pathetic childish muppet brings out a childish Warnock out banner i shall put my lighter to it.
read Nomar's post, as it is probably the best you will read on the subject.
Warnock and the players need our backing, not dissent.
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Post by steeleyranger on Dec 21, 2011 23:31:18 GMT
So typical of a number of QPR supporters ! As soon as things go wrong the manager gets all the blame- as if changing him will make all the difference? We were for some time the laughing stock of football as we changed managers frequently -as soon as we kept one we had success- now less than half a season in and there are calls for Warnock to go ! Realistically, we are currently placed about where we mostly expected we would be! The problem was the success we had earlier than expected, which raised the expectation to mid table ! Our late 'new signings' gave us a boost-that effect has now worn off and we are back to reality and recognising that we have severe weaknesses-especially in defense. If these can be properly addressed it would make such a difference. Whilst I agree that some of Warnock's tactics seem puzzling -it's the lack of faith in our defense which prompted the 'defensive' mid field line up tonight. However frustrating the current results are- we need to get behind the team and management not look for excuses and not resort to the easily said, 'manager's got to go, captain should go etc. Just remember how far we have come in the last 2 years and who has got us there-and in my opinion that includes Adel ! Lets just be realistic and give them support-plus some new additions please-(striker, midfielder and 2 defenders)-which may just be enough to survive.
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Post by maudesfishnchips on Dec 21, 2011 23:40:28 GMT
i wonder if hitman was amongst the section of fans booing at half time and full time.
stay driving that bandwagon and take the other lot with you,
you fickle fans disgust me.
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Post by scarletpimple on Dec 21, 2011 23:59:21 GMT
I am losing faith in warnock, although injuries have not helped with a weak overall squad, he needs an inspired jan with the players coming in, but to play barton fourlin and derry in the same team with one striker at home is very dissapointing.
Still hopefull.............just.
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Post by maudesfishnchips on Dec 22, 2011 0:11:14 GMT
my opinion is we are seeing the effects of getting this squad together to late, rushed buys, defenders not as neil would of liked, the signing of barton was a board one and i'm sure neil would of been happy with it but could honestly say not his first choice, jan might be better and i expect it to, only concern is the new signings hitting the ground running.
its ganna be a struggle but i would want no one else but warnock leading us.
the man is my hero , and not for the obvious reasons of winning the champs, saving us from relegation, but what he has had to put up with from those c*nts who tried to rip this club apart.
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Post by scarletpimple on Dec 22, 2011 0:18:15 GMT
Good points maud, hope Neil turns it around as he has worked wonders for this club.
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Post by bradfieldhoop on Dec 22, 2011 0:58:14 GMT
I'm afraid I am obviously going to be in the minority as I believe we must evolve if we are to keep our hard earnt place in the Premiership--we will not survive on sentiment. I admire the fact that NW had the courage to build a team around Taarabt in the Championship and with impressive performances from other players the team proved good enough to achieve the dream---but what is abundantly clear to me this season is that we appear to have regressed tactically even though we supposedly have a better team. I'm not absolving the players of their individual mistakes but they seem to be happening time and time again which makes me wonder what is going on in training--if you are constantly out of position and unaware of where the danger is going to come from you are always going to put yourself at increased risk of making mistakes. The back four might not be the most talented but basics such as working as a unit comes from the training pitch--too many times our central two look like strangers not knowing what the other will do and our full backs are failing to provide the extra cover because they have dropped concentration and found themselves too far adrift of the central pairing--real basics that need to be drilled into players during the week--do I consider Swansea have a more talented back line than us or are they just better organised and drilled from the training ground. I do think we have enough in midfield and up front but I'm not sure that NW really knows how to get the best from them. I believe we have a problem with Barton as he is so far away from the player that played for Newcastle last season and has shown no sign of improvement--he needs a manager to get hold of him rather than seemingly be in awe of him and certainly doesn't need to be playing on the right side of midfield which seems to be where he always ends up. I don't understand our team lay out--it seems to change too often. By all means be adaptable but I can't believe the players ever get comfortable with a system as they never seem to stick with it for more than a couple of games--tonights starting eleven was the most ridiculous formation of 4-1-4-1 with Derry trying to bolster the back four--we were playing Sunderland yet three days ago we played Man Utd with a 4-4-2--that does not smack of a manager that knows what he wants and even less how to get it. I don't want to hear NW saying for the umpteenth time that the opposition have got away with murder in his press conference--(Blackburn,WBA,Newcastle,Aston Villa,Norwich and again tonight) Dropping points or losing to them is as much his responsibility,his team selection , his tactics and his substitutions. I am fearful because deep down I think he's done his job--I love his passion but that's not going to keep us where we want to be--thats why i do advocate change and personally would like to see Mark Hughes given the chance to take us to the next level. Harsh maybe but someone I believe the players would respect as I have a feeling too many of ours are losing theirs for him.
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Post by maudesfishnchips on Dec 22, 2011 1:18:31 GMT
I'm afraid I am obviously going to be in the minority as I believe we must evolve if we are to keep our hard earnt place in the Premiership--we will not survive on sentiment. I admire the fact that NW had the courage to build a team around Taarabt in the Championship and with impressive performances from other players the team proved good enough to achieve the dream---but what is abundantly clear to me this season is that we appear to have regressed tactically even though we supposedly have a better team. I'm not absolving the players of their individual mistakes but they seem to be happening time and time again which makes me wonder what is going on in training--if you are constantly out of position and unaware of where the danger is going to come from you are always going to put yourself at increased risk of making mistakes. The back four might not be the most talented but basics such as working as a unit comes from the training pitch--too many times our central two look like strangers not knowing what the other will do and our full backs are failing to provide the extra cover because they have dropped concentration and found themselves too far adrift of the central pairing--real basics that need to be drilled into players during the week--do I consider Swansea have a more talented back line than us or are they just better organised and drilled from the training ground. I do think we have enough in midfield and up front but I'm not sure that NW really knows how to get the best from them. I believe we have a problem with Barton as he is so far away from the player that played for Newcastle last season and has shown no sign of improvement--he needs a manager to get hold of him rather than seemingly be in awe of him and certainly doesn't need to be playing on the right side of midfield which seems to be where he always ends up. I don't understand our team lay out--it seems to change too often. By all means be adaptable but I can't believe the players ever get comfortable with a system as they never seem to stick with it for more than a couple of games--tonights starting eleven was the most ridiculous formation of 4-1-4-1 with Derry trying to bolster the back four--we were playing Sunderland yet three days ago we played Man Utd with a 4-4-2--that does not smack of a manager that knows what he wants and even less how to get it. I don't want to hear NW saying for the umpteenth time that the opposition have got away with murder in his press conference--(Blackburn,WBA,Newcastle,Aston Villa,Norwich and again tonight) Dropping points or losing to them is as much his responsibility,his team selection , his tactics and his substitutions. I am fearful because deep down I think he's done his job--I love his passion but that's not going to keep us where we want to be--thats why i do advocate change and personally would like to see Mark Hughes given the chance to take us to the next level. Harsh maybe but someone I believe the players would respect as I have a feeling too many of ours are losing theirs for him. lets get mark hughes in he'll save us, exactly the same as warnock did.... oh ...wait....what ever happened to warnock? he's still with us? really? might as well keep him then. you lot make me laugh.
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Post by oliverjames on Dec 22, 2011 2:03:38 GMT
It's pub football, hit hope and chase. Nw,s footballs always been like it, just had luck, Kenny and Tarabt to get him out of jail. Time to think differently at this level.
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Post by steeleyranger on Dec 22, 2011 2:28:51 GMT
I'm with you Maude- I don't believe we have regressed at all as a team-from what I have seen we have played some attractive football much better to watch than last year. However, the obvious difference is that in the Premier you get punished for any errors you make and you have to make the most of the chances you get yourselves. This is where we are falling down and again we merely played Derry to protect our very vulnerable backs. I can't see how changing Warnock for Hughes would make any difference either, oh and by the way that 'average' Man U ( as described by some on Sun) put 5 past Fulham -so maybe our 2-0 wasn't so bad after all!?
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Post by londonranger on Dec 22, 2011 3:15:03 GMT
Im sorry to disagree with so many emotional postersa and you have the right to be that way.
We are a mess, our players are a mess, our manageing is a mess, our goal shhooting is a mess, our morale is a mess, our tactics are a mess, we have a mess of joint and bone disease, some of them came with them, now Traore is a mess, Gabbidon and Ferdiand atre messed, SWP is a mess, Tarrabt, is a bleeding mess, Bothroyd a royal mess, and so ad infinitum. Hall is permanently messed, Connollys mess only exceded by Hall.
For this team to get promoted, it will be "The Escape from Alcatraz" Remember, we played a team that was circling the drain. To which we lost at home very late. Without a doubt our drain circling is a messy gurgling.
"(Oh London, how harsh and cynical you can be? Support our boys)...Mates, if my yiddisher brothers "fought like this against the Persians, our Temple wouldve been a real live mess.
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harbo
Neil Warnock
YOU R'S!!!!!
Posts: 529
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Post by harbo on Dec 22, 2011 7:15:25 GMT
Hitman comparin my quote about an out of shape adel taraabt who was showing no loyalty or heart for our club, to the situation with warnock at the moment is exactly what's wrong with your argument. Regardless of if we were fortunate or not did we beat Stoke, everton and wolves away from home? Did we give man city their toughest game of the season? Did we beat Chelsea? You need some perspective, if you understand where our club has come from the situation we have been in to where we are now, just because we've had a bad patch of 4 or 5 games you are calling for our manager to be sacked. It's knee-jerk. There's no long term reason for it, it's just short term frustration that you aren't able to contain and thus it transforms into your calling for warlocks dismissal. Whether you're jumping on the bandwagon or starting it, it's wrong. Who realistically with the players available to QPR would have done a better job up to this point? Who would of realistically made such a great change and wouldve been such a great manager that they would have made Matt Connelly and Danny Gabbidon good defenders? You said previously that you don't blame the players well they should take as much responsibility as the manager if not more, thy are the ones out their making mistakes which are costing us games, not NW. Your negative energy would be far better served turned into positive support of the club you love, and not having knee jerk reactions to what could just be a blip in form that we turn around. I support QPR AND I support Neil Warnock.
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blandy
Dave Mangnall
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Post by blandy on Dec 22, 2011 7:26:06 GMT
Firstly, this was always gonna be a difficult season. With the late deals done for SWP and Barton it was obvious the Jan window was gonna be more important for us than other clubs. We now have a chance, a small chance albeit, to be top of the bottom 4 at ther start of the new year......i'll take it and see what we buy/loan in then on the plus side , we managed two goals last night !! ..can we somehow scamble a point away at swanswa??...we all know where the weak areas are.
secondly, Warnock has got us there and i realloy want him to stay and finish the job...we've not had much to cheer about this year , especially at home.....our two big names are not performing but hopefully the addition of some quality will start to bring out the best in them........its gonna be a tough few months and if we avoid the drop then its gonna be by the skin of our teeth...........nervous already.....?? a win at swansea and a performance at arsenal is all i want for xmas
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harbo
Neil Warnock
YOU R'S!!!!!
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Post by harbo on Dec 22, 2011 7:26:48 GMT
You have obviously not watched all our games this season. We have played some great attacking football. Stupid post, not thought through.
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Post by sirpiechucker on Dec 22, 2011 7:58:16 GMT
Sorry OJ but I have to agree with Harbo. At times we've played some very nice football. Sometimes you have to play differently against certain opposition. With the likes of Cattermole and Vaughan in the middle you sometimes have to play route one as its difficult to play through those kinds of players. My problem with the 1st half yesterday as well as a number of times against Liverpool and United is that we've tried to play route one using SWP as the target.
The tactics aren't perfect but they are actually alright it's the execution and the indivudal errors which are costing us so dearly!
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Post by sirpiechucker on Dec 22, 2011 8:19:05 GMT
Nothing is guaranteed in football. Sacking Warnock and appointing Bruce, Hughes or whoever else wouldn't guarantee safety. Yes, we're not having a good run of results but we're a club in transition and right now sacking the man who has got the best out of the likes of Derry, Helguson, Kenny, Hill etc isn't the way to go. Any new manager would have to manage a club which has a number of Championship players and try and survive because ultimately that's what Warnock is trying to do. We rightly didn't outbid for Crouch and we missed out on Bellamy so we've got Championship strikers, a few Championship defenders, midfielders and goal keepers all new to this level (or very unexperienced) alongside some genuine Premiership players. Maybe long term if we survive and we have a full squad of genuine Premiership players and Warnock isn't getting the results then talk about replacing him but right now back him.
We've seen what happens when a club turns on their manager and it isn't helping the players so please please don't do it to Warnock.
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Post by alfaranger on Dec 22, 2011 8:41:49 GMT
Nothing is guaranteed in football. Sacking Warnock and appointing Bruce, Hughes or whoever else wouldn't guarantee safety. Yes, we're not having a good run of results but we're a club in transition and right now sacking the man who has got the best out of the likes of Derry, Helguson, Kenny, Hill etc isn't the way to go. Any new manager would have to manage a club which has a number of Championship players and try and survive because ultimately that's what Warnock is trying to do. We rightly didn't outbid for Crouch and we missed out on Bellamy so we've got Championship strikers, a few Championship defenders, midfielders and goal keepers all new to this level (or very unexperienced) alongside some genuine Premiership players. Maybe long term if we survive and we have a full squad of genuine Premiership players and Warnock isn't getting the results then talk about replacing him but right now back him. We've seen what happens when a club turns on their manager and it isn't helping the players so please please don't do it to Warnock. Nice one!
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w12
Ian Holloway
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Post by w12 on Dec 22, 2011 9:09:30 GMT
I seriously think if we dont start picking up points by the end of February we are going down.Our fixture list up to the end of then says we should get some wins,i for one never thought it was going to be a peice of cake.This transfer window has to produce some quality,rather more than quality,perhaps get rid of some deadwood,bringing in some more quantity with quality.The names being bandied about coming to us are crazy,you might as well mention my name 50 plus keen but no legs for the game.I want action rather than just talk,new training ground when?new stadium when? give us possible sites,give us something to perhaps look forward to,some hope.Warnock is also giving me some doubts as to whether he,s up to the task,as to lead our team in the best league in the world.Dont get me wrong love the guy,but 1 striker up front in a game we need to win is a strange decision,Dyer Gabbidon etc what are they doing at our club sfa thats what.Lets hope something good happens soon.
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Post by maudesfishnchips on Dec 22, 2011 9:30:03 GMT
I want action rather than just talk,new training ground when?new stadium when? give us possible sites,give us something to perhaps look forward to,some hope.Warnock is also giving me some doubts as to whether he,s up to the task,as to lead our team in the best league in the world.Dont get me wrong love the guy,but 1 striker up front in a game we need to win is a strange decision,Dyer Gabbidon etc what are they doing at our club sfa thats what.Lets hope something good happens soon. a site for the new training ground and facilities has been identified by QPR, this was said by our ceo beard, i would suppose a lot of negotiations are still to be complete before any official announcement is made, they have done great work to get this far in such a short amount of time. As for a new stadium, well......not like popping down the corner shop to get a loaf of bread is it? dyer, gabbidon etc etc are a product of our former twisted owners, neil done as best he could with no money or support from them, if fernandes had been able to buy them out earlier this inherited problem would not exist. starting with HH as the only striker is something that has happened quite a lot in our formation this season, with bothroyd playing attacking midfield, only difference yesterday was that barton pushed up with the inclusion of derry.
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Post by mikehunt on Dec 22, 2011 10:49:40 GMT
truth is we are actually really shit. who do you blame for that?
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Post by sirpiechucker on Dec 22, 2011 11:51:19 GMT
truth is we are actually really shit. who do you blame for that? I blame a long drawn out takeover meaning that we have a squad full of players that Warnock HAD to buy and a squad full of players who he was forced to keep and only a handful of players he actually wanted. All resulting in no proper pre-season and a bunch of players who’ve learnt how to play together in competitive matches rather than friendlies. Given the full summer to bring in players would we really be seeing the likes of Gabbidon and Connolly in the centre of defence? Would we really have signed Bothroyd, Perone and Puncheon? Norwich and Swansea have made minimal changes and are playing the same systems as last season so each player know’s his role in the set up whereas we have a whole host of players of many different standards of quality trying to gel in a system which has had to change due to it failings. Give Warnock time and if he fails to deliver then fire him but whilst we’re still in with more than a fighting chance of surviving this season it’s far too earlier to talk about dismissal.
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Post by mikehunt on Dec 22, 2011 12:07:03 GMT
i actually and seriously wish we had of kept the exact same team and formation as last season. cos they would of done better than this lot, im so certain of that.
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