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Post by harr on Nov 4, 2015 10:46:05 GMT
Hudds have just sacked Chris Powell as they only have 15 pts, only four less than us and look at the squad difference.....
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Post by Harold Wilson on Nov 5, 2015 11:00:16 GMT
I see our clubs are being tarred with the same brush. link "People will look and think 'Is it worth it? Is it because of the colour of their skin? Or is it because they are bad managers?'says Troy Townsend. Statement like this are just embarrassment to kick it out.
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Post by bowranger on Nov 5, 2015 11:06:18 GMT
Hudds have just sacked Chris Powell as they only have 15 pts, only four less than us and look at the squad difference..... Yeah but Powell had been there for a year with a remit of improving the prospects of Huddersfield and he's failed at that - he was appointed at the start of the 2014/15 season and no real improvements were forthcoming. Not really a fair comparison considering he's had three transfer windows and more than one full season at the club. He was given a season and he couldn't make it work. Not really comparable to QPR - far longer tenure, more transfer windows, completely different remits.
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Post by sharky on Nov 5, 2015 12:15:15 GMT
Must admit that I have wondered whether some of the early negative talk about CR was because he's black. I guess we'll never know
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Post by harr on Nov 5, 2015 12:28:15 GMT
From Andros Townshend dad
Disheartening day for black coaches, says Troy Townsend
The sackings of Chris Powell and Chris Ramsey were "disheartening", says anti-racism campaigner Troy Townsend. Powell departed Huddersfield and Ramsey left QPR to leave four bosses of black and minority ethnic (BME) and Asian backgrounds in the top four leagues. Last week the FA's newly appointed BME boss Wayne Allison said he wanted to increase the number of black coaches. "To lose both managers sends out a really strong message to those aspiring to get on this journey," said Townsend. "People will look and think 'Is it worth it? Is it because of the colour of their skin? Or is it because they are bad managers?' "I know people will say results are not right but there is a lot more to it than that. "Today is disheartening without a doubt."
Chris Hughton (Brighton), Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink (Burton Albion), Keith Curle (Carlisle) and Ricardo Moniz (Notts County) are now the only managers from BME backgrounds in the Football League after Wednesday's sackings. Townsend - education and development manager at Kick It Out, as well as the father of Tottenham winger Andros - said the loss of both Powell and Ramsey from the Championship sides was "a really disappointing day for BME people who are looking to be part of the game at the highest level". He told BBC Radio 5 live: "We are talking about the under-representation of black managers in the English game. "We have 25% BME players in this country. There are less than 4% in terms of major coaching roles. The stats don't stack up." Huddersfield said that the dismissal of Powell "signals a change of direction by the club and a new approach", while QPR director of football Les Ferdinand said that replacing Ramsey was in the "best interests of the club".
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Post by harr on Nov 5, 2015 12:31:44 GMT
Frank Sinclair talking some sense
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Post by harr on Nov 5, 2015 12:36:03 GMT
Another from Frank Sinclair
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Post by bowranger on Nov 5, 2015 12:42:49 GMT
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Post by harr on Nov 5, 2015 12:49:09 GMT
Thanks Bow, didnt realise it was up already. Apologies Alfa, you had it covered.
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Post by nomar on Nov 5, 2015 12:53:36 GMT
Another from Frank Sinclair This. If they were both winning they'd still be employed today. And for the record I am a black man (well brown actually but not mixed race, my parents are both South American).
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Post by sharky on Nov 5, 2015 13:02:16 GMT
Sure Nomar but the turning on CR happened earlier than happened for white managers. This may have been because of his inexperience but for some it may have been because he's black. How many we'll never know!
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Post by bowranger on Nov 5, 2015 13:11:20 GMT
Another from Frank Sinclair This. If they were both winning they'd still be employed today. And for the record I am a black man (well brown actually but not mixed race, my parents are both South American). Like I was saying in the other thread, feel like the "disheartening" aspect of the Kick it Out statement is true and it's potentially a situation where aspiring managers from a BME background may well look at it and reinforce the idea that comes out in the disproportionate statistics - i.e. proportionally, things do not seem fair. It's talking about perception rather than implying the sackings were race-related - or at least, that's what I took from it. But in terms of the sackings, just feel that's more just a symptom of modern football than anything else. With the boards at both clubs, with the remits being laid out, they would have been sacked regardless. Powell got given a year or so to improve stuff at Huddersfield and there was no significant improvement. The remit for Ramsey switched to promotion and he didn't look like achieving it at this point and we know what our board is like.
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Post by bowranger on Nov 5, 2015 13:15:20 GMT
Sure Nomar but the turning on CR happened earlier than happened for white managers. This may have been because of his inexperience but for some it may have been because he's black. How many we'll never know! I've had quite a few QPR fans and fans from other clubs echo similar things when I've chatted to them but they havn't felt very confident about bringing it up because of fearing the reaction of other fans. It's not something I've ever seen on this messageboard at all, but online I've seen stuff about that seemed like some really insidious "dog whistle" kinda statements, if you know what I mean. Particularly in terms of his relationship with LF. But as you say, I'll guess we'll never know. Sadly, we know those attitudes do persist in some sections of football and I doubt our fanbase is any different to any other in that respect.
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Post by alfaranger on Nov 5, 2015 13:37:36 GMT
Sure Nomar but the turning on CR happened earlier than happened for white managers. This may have been because of his inexperience but for some it may have been because he's black. How many we'll never know! It seems as if you're pushing for that Sharky. If it's 'how many we'll never know', it could be none of them or all of them or a non defined number in between. The fanbase tends to turn on a manager when he isn't winning games, makes poor decisions and doesn't react to situation on the field with the subs etc. Had you thought that might be a contributory cause? It wasn't my cause because I never called for him to go or gave him any abuse. This wasn't a 'race' discussion before he was sacked. The debate was all about how badly (in most peoples eyes) he was doing and how more and more wanted change. Now there is that change, an element of 'it could have been because he is black' is just starting to be put out there.
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Post by bowranger on Nov 5, 2015 13:49:40 GMT
Sure Nomar but the turning on CR happened earlier than happened for white managers. This may have been because of his inexperience but for some it may have been because he's black. How many we'll never know! It seems as if you're pushing for that Sharky. If it's 'how many we'll never know', it could be none of them or all of them or a non defined number in between. The fanbase tends to turn on a manager when he isn't winning games, makes poor decisions and doesn't react to situation on the field with the subs etc. Had you thought that might be a contributory cause? It wasn't my cause because I never called for him to go or gave him any abuse. This wasn't a 'race' discussion before he was sacked. The debate was all about how badly (in most peoples eyes) he was doing and how more and more wanted change. Now there is that change, an element of 'it could have been because he is black' is just starting to be put out there. Don't think that's necessarily fair - not seen arguments stating he could have been sacked because he was black, just whether his race had something to do with some of the really nasty bile directed at him compared to other managers. As I say, I've had fans bring that up with me a while ago and seen some statements online that may point to that. It's obviously hard to quantify that stuff, doesn't cease being relevant just because of that. And unfortunately it was a discussion regarding race well before the sacking - there's been comments about that on Twitter, on LFW etc. - though often from the other point of view (i.e. him being given more time because of his race, which I don't think is particularly fair, or accurate considering he's been sacked in November). I don't doubt that the vast majority of all the dissatisfaction just comes from a mixture of modern football expectations, the attitude of our club/boardroom and Ramsey not helping himself with some odd squad choices and probably a less than successful approach to in-game management thus far. I don't think the Kick it Out statement is saying that either really, though I think it is probably worded in a fairly provocative way to provoke discussion about BME representation in football. Like with a lot of issues like this, even if it's not something I've felt has been particularly prevalent, it's something I've had a fair amount of people bring up to me and I wouldn't want to just dismiss that.
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Post by alfaranger on Nov 5, 2015 14:14:43 GMT
It seems as if you're pushing for that Sharky. If it's 'how many we'll never know', it could be none of them or all of them or a non defined number in between. The fanbase tends to turn on a manager when he isn't winning games, makes poor decisions and doesn't react to situation on the field with the subs etc. Had you thought that might be a contributory cause? It wasn't my cause because I never called for him to go or gave him any abuse. This wasn't a 'race' discussion before he was sacked. The debate was all about how badly (in most peoples eyes) he was doing and how more and more wanted change. Now there is that change, an element of 'it could have been because he is black' is just starting to be put out there. Don't think that's necessarily fair - not seen arguments stating he could have been sacked because he was black, just whether his race had something to do with some of the really nasty bile directed at him compared to other managers. As I say, I've had fans bring that up with me a while ago and seen some statements online that may point to that. It's obviously hard to quantify that stuff, doesn't cease being relevant just because of that. And unfortunately it was a discussion regarding race well before the sacking - there's been comments about that on Twitter, on LFW etc. - though often from the other point of view (i.e. him being given more time because of his race, which I don't think is particularly fair I don't doubt that the vast majority of all the dissatisfaction just comes from a mixture of modern football expectations, the attitude of our club/boardroom and Ramsey not helping himself with some odd squad choices and probably a less than successful approach to in-game management thus far. I don't think the Kick it Out statement is saying that either really, though I think it is probably worded in a fairly provocative way to provoke discussion about BME representation in football. Like with a lot of issues like this, even if it's not something I've felt has been particularly prevalent, it's something I've had a fair amount of people bring up to me and I wouldn't want to just dismiss that. Some very fair points there Bow. I do remember televised clips of managers nearing the end of their tenure getting terrible and continuous abuse from the fans. Allardyce at Newcastle and do you remember Steve Keane's ordeal at Blackburn - he's free by the way - they and many others have all taken heaps of sh*t. That's not to say that I am in denial of any race element in the way that Chris has been treated by individual fans and as you sensibly say, it's hard to quantify.
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Post by bowranger on Nov 5, 2015 14:19:41 GMT
Don't think that's necessarily fair - not seen arguments stating he could have been sacked because he was black, just whether his race had something to do with some of the really nasty bile directed at him compared to other managers. As I say, I've had fans bring that up with me a while ago and seen some statements online that may point to that. It's obviously hard to quantify that stuff, doesn't cease being relevant just because of that. And unfortunately it was a discussion regarding race well before the sacking - there's been comments about that on Twitter, on LFW etc. - though often from the other point of view (i.e. him being given more time because of his race, which I don't think is particularly fair I don't doubt that the vast majority of all the dissatisfaction just comes from a mixture of modern football expectations, the attitude of our club/boardroom and Ramsey not helping himself with some odd squad choices and probably a less than successful approach to in-game management thus far. I don't think the Kick it Out statement is saying that either really, though I think it is probably worded in a fairly provocative way to provoke discussion about BME representation in football. Like with a lot of issues like this, even if it's not something I've felt has been particularly prevalent, it's something I've had a fair amount of people bring up to me and I wouldn't want to just dismiss that. Some very fair points there Bow. I do remember televised clips of managers nearing the end of their tenure getting terrible and continuous abuse from the fans. Allardyce at Newcastle and do you remember Steve Keane's ordeal at Blackburn - he's free by the way - they and many others have all taken heaps of sh*t. That's not to say that I am in denial of any race element in the way that Chris has been treated by individual fans and as you sensibly say, it's hard to quantify. Yeah I think that's a very fair way to put it. As you say, managers have got dogs abuse since forever, it just seems to be a lot worse these days. I think social media and the ability to get caught up in a swarm of opinion instantly, not just at games, plays into that a lot. Remember both situations with Allerdyce and Keane - both seemingly had a lot to do with their relationship with the boardroom as a context for that, which may play into some of the stuff with Ramsey.
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Post by northolt on Nov 5, 2015 17:48:10 GMT
The comments from Troy Townsend are just stupid. If he had paid 100s of pounds for a season ticket would he have enjoyed the rubbish Ramsey served up and some of the stupid subs he made. Its not the colour of his skin in my opinion he was not up to the job. I dont care what the next managers background is if he turn this shambles of a football club into something I enjoy watching again.
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Post by timewaster on Nov 5, 2015 18:05:34 GMT
The funny thing is that neither our chairman or director of football are white. In that case, maybe they could be called racist for sacking Hughes or Warnock or Redknapp
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Post by Lonegunmen on Nov 5, 2015 20:09:29 GMT
I hope thus is not going to disintergrate into a racial argument. My only issues with Ramsey are his results and the style the team played. He might be a nice guy, he might be coloured but I dont reeally give a shit. I refer you back to my issues.
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Post by Macmoish on Nov 5, 2015 20:30:28 GMT
Whatever some fans may or may not...Certainly in this respect our owners are beyond reproach.
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Post by sharky on Nov 8, 2015 9:09:05 GMT
From four four two Hasselbaink: Sackings irrelevant of raceBurton Albion manager Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink does not believe race was considered in the sacking of Chris Ramsey or Chris Powell. Burton Albion manager Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink has denied speculation Chris Ramsey or Chris Powell lost their jobs for anything other than footballing reasons. Ramsey and Powell were sacked from QPR and Huddersfield Town respectively this week after failing to live up to board expectations with both suffering difficult starts to the 2015-16 campaign. The number of black and minority ethic managers in the Football League has reduced to four following the sackings, with Kick It Out chairman Herman Ouseley claiming the decisions will hinder future generations. However, Hasselbaink, refuses to believe race was a factor. "No. I don't want to think like that. I can't think like that," he told Talk Sport. "I am not that kind of person. "I don't look at it like 'oh, they've been sacked because they are black' – that's just being ridiculous. "It is the world that we are living in. It is football." Following relegation from the Premier League last season, promotion hopefuls QPR sit 12th in the Championship, while 16th-place Huddersfield are looking to avoid another relegation battle. Read more at www.fourfourtwo.com/news/hasselbaink-sackings-irrelevant-race#1xs9tIvtDfVSey64.99
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