Post by QPR Report on Sept 27, 2009 6:43:48 GMT
re London's post re supposedly some QPR fans calling Taarabt "'yid twat' - That of course was a rerence to him being from Spurs. And that reminds me of previous debates re the use of the term. Should Jews use the term about themselves. Should non Jews use it to apply to Spurs. And other such questions
This is one article re Football and using the term "Yids"...
When Saturday Comes
The Y word
Tuesday 21 October ~ 2008
Arsenal have been among the most prominent backers of the various Kick It Out anti-racism campaigns. But in WSC 230 (April 2006) Jon Spurling asked whether the club could be doing more to address offensive chanting by a section of their support
In November 2005, Alan Sefton, the overseer of âArsenal in the communityâ, announced that the club would be setting up five soccer schools across Israel. Arsenal are already involved in working with a number of primary schools in mixed Jewish/Muslim areas of London, and children are encouraged to co-present religious festivals before playing football together. Sefton later confirmed his and the clubâs belief that ââŚfootball unites people of different classes, social groups, races and nationalities⌠We donât want it to focus on divisions and tribalism.â
Sefton played down the claim that Arsenal had launched the initiative because he and several of the clubâs directors, such as David Dein and Daniel Fiszman, are Jewish. Instead, he argued that it was due to Arsenalâs wish that âdifferent races and cultures should mix together freelyâ.
With Thierry Henry the charismatic front man for the Letâs Kick Racism Out Of Football campaign, the Gunners appear to be the most forward thinking of all clubs in the battle to fight racial intolerance. Yet despite the clubâs programme in Israel and the explicit warnings in and around Highbury that âracist and foul language will not be toleratedâ, vast numbers of Arsenal fans continue to use the word âyiddoâ freely in chants during games. Brendan Batson, the former West Brom star and Professional Footballersâ Association official, says: âThe âYâ word is much used among London football fans. Derogatory words used in connection with the colour of someoneâs skin are considered more inflammatory than words to do with someoneâs nationality or religion. Thatâs not to say that itâs right. Itâs just how it is.â
Max Hyndes is lobbying the club in an attempt to persuade them to clamp down on the use of the word: âIt started out as an insult to the large contingent of Jewish fans who supposedly went to watch Tottenham and was also part of a reaction to the large numbers of Jews who came to this country after the Second World War. Iâve always laughed inwardly at the belief many Arsenal fans have that Spurs are âthe Jewish clubâ, as Arsenal also have a massive Jewish following.
âThe word âyidâ is a derogatory term. Youâre deliberately drawing attention to the fact that someone either looks different, behaves differently, or follows a different religious orientation to yourself. That â to my knowledge â is a form of prejudice. The chanting at Highbury used to be far more unpleasant than it is now. Up until the mid-1980s, youâd get songs about âgassing the yidsâ, âSpurs are on their way to Auschwitzâ, and a hissing noise from thousands of fans to copy the noise of gas being slowly released. Is laughing about âgassing the yidsâ as offensive as calling someone a âN-Wordâ? Well, no oneâs ever insulted me on account of the colour of my skin, but as a Jewish man, I certainly find the word âyidâ offensive.â
But three decades ago Spurs fans began to adopt the word âyidâ en masse, as a code of honour and to âprotectâ their Jewish fans from Arsenal fansâ anti-semitic chanting. When Arsenal played Spurs last season at Highbury, a group of Tottenham fans gave another airing to a chant from recent years: âOne yid and his baseball cap went to war with Arsenal.â
As Batson comments, the term is used in âeveryday parlanceâ. Hyndes explains: âAll children learn about the Holocaust in school history lessons. Surely their history teachers tell them that the word âyidâ is an offensive term? Ashkenazi Jews use the phrase âYidnâ as a way of saying âmateâ or âbuddyâ to a fellow Jew. But if outsiders use the term, itâs not right. âEveryone says itâ, argued one steward with me, âso how can it be offensive?â Well, I used to go to Highbury in the Sixties when words like âN-Wordâ and âcoonâ were bandied about freely, but weâve moved on since then. If we genuinely live in a multicultural country, the widespread use of the word âyidâ needs to be addressed.â
Arsenalâs official stance on the use of the word by their supporters is unclear. Max Hyndes claims that two letters on the subject directed to the club went unanswered. Other inquiries proved equally fruitless, although an Arsenal telephone operator was more forthcoming, claiming that the widespread use of the word âyidâ by supporters was the âlast bastion of cultural ignorance among our fansâ.
www.wsc.co.uk/content/view/1127/38/
And this is the other I was thinkin of (Many others I could find)
TIME OUT LONDON
Anti-Semitism in football
Peter Watts considers the complexities of fans using the word âYidâ at Spurs games, he worries that the Carling Cup final could resemble the bad old days of the â80s
Where does name-calling end and anti-Semitism begin?
Iâd been calling Spurs âthe Yidsâ for a couple of years before my dad told me it was racist. âDonât you realise itâs an abusive term for someone who is Jewish?â he said. I didnât, nor had I worked it out from one of my favourite Chelsea chants: âHeâs only a poor little Yiddo/He stands at the back of the Shelf/He goes to the bar/To buy a lager/And only buys one for himselfâ. Racial stereotypes were clearly not one of my strong points as a 13-year-old.
Iâd like to say that I immediately stopped using the word, but I didnât. Chelsea fans â like those at Arsenal and West Ham â had been calling Tottenham âYidsâ for decades. Given that Spurs devotees called themselves the âYid Armyâ I didnât see how it caused any harm. Iâve since ceased, but at the Carling Cup final on February 24 cries of âYiddoâ will ring round Wembley â and theyâre as likely to come from the Spurs end as the Chelsea one. Is anti-Semitism, the oldest hate, prospering in football or is this just a near-the-knuckle nickname for a rival football club?
Many supporters are convinced itâs the latter. David Baddiel, a Jewish Chelsea fan, wrote in 2002: âI told myself that it didnât matter, that for most of these fans, âYiddoâ simply meant a Tottenham player or fan and that the negativity was about that and not about race.â However, when Chelsea fans aimed the chant at non-Tottenham Israeli players, Baddiel ârealised I was in denial: âYiddoâ may mean Tottenham fan but it also means Jew.â Baddiel may be interested to know that my own eureka moment involved him. When he was spotted during a game in the mid-1990s and half the West Stand broke into a chorus of âYiddo, yiddo!â, Baddiel smiled it off â but the penny finally dropped that this was racist abuse, pure and simple.
It used to be worse. In the 1980s chants about Auschwitz and hissing to imitate the release of gas were common, but I havenât heard either in nearly 20 years of attending Chelsea-Spurs fixtures. Jeremy Vine, a Times journalist and another Jewish Chelsea fan, agrees: âIâm sure I would notice hissing as it would most likely come from the Matthew Harding Stand, where I sit.â However, a lot of old faces will be on display at Wembley and the atmosphere could get â80s ugly. Even if it doesnât, the existing abuse is bad enough.
Vine, who briefly stopped attending games in the 1980s due to racism, says: âWithout doubt some of those who chant âYidâ are anti-Semites at heart⌠but I donât believe all are.â The problem, Vine feels, is that âpersonal jibes are part of the language of the terraces. Anything goes. And so the boundaries of decency and offensiveness become blurred.â
What muddies the water further is that, since the 1970s, Spurs fans have proudly reclaimed what was originally coined as a term of abuse (nobody knows why, Tottenham being no more âJewishâ than Arsenal or Chelsea) and now call themselves the âYid Armyâ. Chelsea chairman Ken Bates, always torn between defending Chelsea supporters while confronting their excesses, argued that, âIt is hard to criticise Chelsea fans for calling Tottenham supporters something that they call themselves.â
Spurs conducted a âfull consultation exerciseâ over the use of âYid Armyâ because of fears it led to âcasual anti-Semitismâ, but this was criticised by many of their own supporters who felt the chant united both Jewish and non-Jewish Tottenham fans against their abusers. âIf you are Tottenham, you are a Yid,â is the argument. Many agree thereâs a distinction between chanting âYiddoâ and singing about concentration camps, which is broadly true â unless youâre racist.
Simon Greenberg, Chelseaâs director of communications, disagrees and has denounced the Bates defence, leading to the curious situation where Chelsea â who now have a Jewish owner and manager â are promising to take a harder line on anti-Semitism than conflicted Tottenham. âWe have a policy of zero tolerance,â says Greenberg. âThere is no justification in our eyes and weâre not going to get into a philosophical debate about it.â The club strongly denounced the anti-Semitic hate mail they received after Avram Grantâs appointment as manager.
Fine words, though if zero tolerance is applied at Wembley next week both ends will be half-empty before kick-off. Nevertheless, Vine insists: âThere is no comparison to be made between three decades ago and now. Itâs not perfect. I stayed away from the ground once before because of the people it attracted. The difference now is that these people are an extremely small minority. I donât like it but I accept it as a reality. And it is slowly improving.â That said, as anybody who watches the Carling Cup final will discover, there is still a very long way to go.
And commenst responding to Time Out Article
www.timeout.com/london/sport/features/4221/Anti-Semitism_in_football.html
This is one article re Football and using the term "Yids"...
When Saturday Comes
The Y word
Tuesday 21 October ~ 2008
Arsenal have been among the most prominent backers of the various Kick It Out anti-racism campaigns. But in WSC 230 (April 2006) Jon Spurling asked whether the club could be doing more to address offensive chanting by a section of their support
In November 2005, Alan Sefton, the overseer of âArsenal in the communityâ, announced that the club would be setting up five soccer schools across Israel. Arsenal are already involved in working with a number of primary schools in mixed Jewish/Muslim areas of London, and children are encouraged to co-present religious festivals before playing football together. Sefton later confirmed his and the clubâs belief that ââŚfootball unites people of different classes, social groups, races and nationalities⌠We donât want it to focus on divisions and tribalism.â
Sefton played down the claim that Arsenal had launched the initiative because he and several of the clubâs directors, such as David Dein and Daniel Fiszman, are Jewish. Instead, he argued that it was due to Arsenalâs wish that âdifferent races and cultures should mix together freelyâ.
With Thierry Henry the charismatic front man for the Letâs Kick Racism Out Of Football campaign, the Gunners appear to be the most forward thinking of all clubs in the battle to fight racial intolerance. Yet despite the clubâs programme in Israel and the explicit warnings in and around Highbury that âracist and foul language will not be toleratedâ, vast numbers of Arsenal fans continue to use the word âyiddoâ freely in chants during games. Brendan Batson, the former West Brom star and Professional Footballersâ Association official, says: âThe âYâ word is much used among London football fans. Derogatory words used in connection with the colour of someoneâs skin are considered more inflammatory than words to do with someoneâs nationality or religion. Thatâs not to say that itâs right. Itâs just how it is.â
Max Hyndes is lobbying the club in an attempt to persuade them to clamp down on the use of the word: âIt started out as an insult to the large contingent of Jewish fans who supposedly went to watch Tottenham and was also part of a reaction to the large numbers of Jews who came to this country after the Second World War. Iâve always laughed inwardly at the belief many Arsenal fans have that Spurs are âthe Jewish clubâ, as Arsenal also have a massive Jewish following.
âThe word âyidâ is a derogatory term. Youâre deliberately drawing attention to the fact that someone either looks different, behaves differently, or follows a different religious orientation to yourself. That â to my knowledge â is a form of prejudice. The chanting at Highbury used to be far more unpleasant than it is now. Up until the mid-1980s, youâd get songs about âgassing the yidsâ, âSpurs are on their way to Auschwitzâ, and a hissing noise from thousands of fans to copy the noise of gas being slowly released. Is laughing about âgassing the yidsâ as offensive as calling someone a âN-Wordâ? Well, no oneâs ever insulted me on account of the colour of my skin, but as a Jewish man, I certainly find the word âyidâ offensive.â
But three decades ago Spurs fans began to adopt the word âyidâ en masse, as a code of honour and to âprotectâ their Jewish fans from Arsenal fansâ anti-semitic chanting. When Arsenal played Spurs last season at Highbury, a group of Tottenham fans gave another airing to a chant from recent years: âOne yid and his baseball cap went to war with Arsenal.â
As Batson comments, the term is used in âeveryday parlanceâ. Hyndes explains: âAll children learn about the Holocaust in school history lessons. Surely their history teachers tell them that the word âyidâ is an offensive term? Ashkenazi Jews use the phrase âYidnâ as a way of saying âmateâ or âbuddyâ to a fellow Jew. But if outsiders use the term, itâs not right. âEveryone says itâ, argued one steward with me, âso how can it be offensive?â Well, I used to go to Highbury in the Sixties when words like âN-Wordâ and âcoonâ were bandied about freely, but weâve moved on since then. If we genuinely live in a multicultural country, the widespread use of the word âyidâ needs to be addressed.â
Arsenalâs official stance on the use of the word by their supporters is unclear. Max Hyndes claims that two letters on the subject directed to the club went unanswered. Other inquiries proved equally fruitless, although an Arsenal telephone operator was more forthcoming, claiming that the widespread use of the word âyidâ by supporters was the âlast bastion of cultural ignorance among our fansâ.
www.wsc.co.uk/content/view/1127/38/
And this is the other I was thinkin of (Many others I could find)
TIME OUT LONDON
Anti-Semitism in football
Peter Watts considers the complexities of fans using the word âYidâ at Spurs games, he worries that the Carling Cup final could resemble the bad old days of the â80s
Where does name-calling end and anti-Semitism begin?
Iâd been calling Spurs âthe Yidsâ for a couple of years before my dad told me it was racist. âDonât you realise itâs an abusive term for someone who is Jewish?â he said. I didnât, nor had I worked it out from one of my favourite Chelsea chants: âHeâs only a poor little Yiddo/He stands at the back of the Shelf/He goes to the bar/To buy a lager/And only buys one for himselfâ. Racial stereotypes were clearly not one of my strong points as a 13-year-old.
Iâd like to say that I immediately stopped using the word, but I didnât. Chelsea fans â like those at Arsenal and West Ham â had been calling Tottenham âYidsâ for decades. Given that Spurs devotees called themselves the âYid Armyâ I didnât see how it caused any harm. Iâve since ceased, but at the Carling Cup final on February 24 cries of âYiddoâ will ring round Wembley â and theyâre as likely to come from the Spurs end as the Chelsea one. Is anti-Semitism, the oldest hate, prospering in football or is this just a near-the-knuckle nickname for a rival football club?
Many supporters are convinced itâs the latter. David Baddiel, a Jewish Chelsea fan, wrote in 2002: âI told myself that it didnât matter, that for most of these fans, âYiddoâ simply meant a Tottenham player or fan and that the negativity was about that and not about race.â However, when Chelsea fans aimed the chant at non-Tottenham Israeli players, Baddiel ârealised I was in denial: âYiddoâ may mean Tottenham fan but it also means Jew.â Baddiel may be interested to know that my own eureka moment involved him. When he was spotted during a game in the mid-1990s and half the West Stand broke into a chorus of âYiddo, yiddo!â, Baddiel smiled it off â but the penny finally dropped that this was racist abuse, pure and simple.
It used to be worse. In the 1980s chants about Auschwitz and hissing to imitate the release of gas were common, but I havenât heard either in nearly 20 years of attending Chelsea-Spurs fixtures. Jeremy Vine, a Times journalist and another Jewish Chelsea fan, agrees: âIâm sure I would notice hissing as it would most likely come from the Matthew Harding Stand, where I sit.â However, a lot of old faces will be on display at Wembley and the atmosphere could get â80s ugly. Even if it doesnât, the existing abuse is bad enough.
Vine, who briefly stopped attending games in the 1980s due to racism, says: âWithout doubt some of those who chant âYidâ are anti-Semites at heart⌠but I donât believe all are.â The problem, Vine feels, is that âpersonal jibes are part of the language of the terraces. Anything goes. And so the boundaries of decency and offensiveness become blurred.â
What muddies the water further is that, since the 1970s, Spurs fans have proudly reclaimed what was originally coined as a term of abuse (nobody knows why, Tottenham being no more âJewishâ than Arsenal or Chelsea) and now call themselves the âYid Armyâ. Chelsea chairman Ken Bates, always torn between defending Chelsea supporters while confronting their excesses, argued that, âIt is hard to criticise Chelsea fans for calling Tottenham supporters something that they call themselves.â
Spurs conducted a âfull consultation exerciseâ over the use of âYid Armyâ because of fears it led to âcasual anti-Semitismâ, but this was criticised by many of their own supporters who felt the chant united both Jewish and non-Jewish Tottenham fans against their abusers. âIf you are Tottenham, you are a Yid,â is the argument. Many agree thereâs a distinction between chanting âYiddoâ and singing about concentration camps, which is broadly true â unless youâre racist.
Simon Greenberg, Chelseaâs director of communications, disagrees and has denounced the Bates defence, leading to the curious situation where Chelsea â who now have a Jewish owner and manager â are promising to take a harder line on anti-Semitism than conflicted Tottenham. âWe have a policy of zero tolerance,â says Greenberg. âThere is no justification in our eyes and weâre not going to get into a philosophical debate about it.â The club strongly denounced the anti-Semitic hate mail they received after Avram Grantâs appointment as manager.
Fine words, though if zero tolerance is applied at Wembley next week both ends will be half-empty before kick-off. Nevertheless, Vine insists: âThere is no comparison to be made between three decades ago and now. Itâs not perfect. I stayed away from the ground once before because of the people it attracted. The difference now is that these people are an extremely small minority. I donât like it but I accept it as a reality. And it is slowly improving.â That said, as anybody who watches the Carling Cup final will discover, there is still a very long way to go.
And commenst responding to Time Out Article
www.timeout.com/london/sport/features/4221/Anti-Semitism_in_football.html