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Post by rickyqpr on Jul 13, 2020 15:02:35 GMT
The poor post lockdown run has emphasised just how big the rebuilding job will be in the next window – whenever that is, but possibly only 3 weeks away.
So perhaps it is timely to review where we are regarding the various positions and get the views of the message board.
So Next Up – Number 2 - Centre Backs
This Season
First up we have Leinster. Clearly, not fancied by Warburton, one of our highest paid players found himself on the bench for the early part of the season. He was recalled and gave his usual effective but limited contribution. He nearly departed for his homeland, Germany, in the close season but was not allowed to leave as we did not sign a replacement. He was allowed to leave in January though without a replacement! He has announced that he has no intention of returning to England to I guess we have to say thanks and goodbye, but you always knew what you were going to get from Leinster and I quite liked watching him play.
Captain Hall. Never seemed to be much of a leader to me and probably got the job because of his earnings and seniority rather than any leadership qualities. But we missed his experience in his absence and he had a good consistent season for QPR. Not a big shock that he did not accept our new contract offer. But another, thanks and goodbye.
The enigma that is Barbet. Can play very well, can spot a pass and is comfortable on the ball. But then he can be dozy and inept. Being made captain for the run-in has done nothing to help his concentration and he has been awful post lockdown. One of many players who do not seem to want to put in any effort, but as captain…….. Anyway, he is the only left sided centre back that we have so his place is assured, but not sure how we assess his first season with QPR
Masterson - Warburton lectures at briefings about how youngsters have to nurtured and eased into the team. He was reluctant to field Masterson even when we were short of options. Then when he did get into the team, he proved to be very impressive and hopes were raised that we had a gem in our hands. But post-lockdown, Masterson has looked a shadow of the player pre-lockdown. So the post lockdown treatment he has received from Warburton has to be questioned. Not exactly nurtured, it is Masterson who seems to get the hook and in the Sheffield game, his confidence looked shot and he was visibly distraught as he was hooked after just 30 minutes. Young developing players will have severe dips in form, but not sure that Warburton is upholdins what he preached with young Conor.
Cameron – is he a central defender? Not really sure! He is experienced, can play at centre half, but more usually is the holding mid-fielder. But post lockdown, first choice centre half. He puts in a shift and worked hard for his contract extension, but he can be careless with his passing and seems to slip over more than most.
Next Season
We are without a spine for next season. The transfer window is mega. We need 2 central defenders and who we acquire holds the key for me to what sort of season we can expect.
Leinster and Hall are no more. Barbet is inconsistent and we have Masterson and Gubbins who hopefully will progress next season. But yeah, if we have to start with an ageing Cameron as our centre half next season, then it will be a sad reflection on the strength of our squad. Crucial area.
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Post by Ashdown_Ranger on Jul 13, 2020 15:47:21 GMT
Nice evaluation Ricky - imagine Masterson must have been shocked/humiliated by that first half substitution against Wednesday. Hope he can get his head back together over the summer break. As for Leistner - doesn't he still have a year on his contract with us? Could be a very awkward situation, him knowing he's not wanted and MW knowing he that doesn't want to be here anyway! Who'd be a football manager...?
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Post by bowranger on Jul 13, 2020 15:57:09 GMT
Totally agree about needing two CBs. I'm only going off stuff I've read, but it at least sounds like right sided CBs at Championship level are one of the relatively cheaper holes to fill.
On the Masterson thing, do think the judgement on taking him off is maybe a little harsh? Taking MW at his word, Wednesday's front line was different than anticipated and the back five wasn't working, so there was a decision to quickly revert to a back four. Obviously in hindsight, that made cock-all difference! But if we understand the decision to go to a back four, it's only really Masterson or Cameron who can come off. Kakay is the only real choice to end up at RB, Barbet is left-footed and Manning has to go LB. Horrid on balance for a kid that age to go so early, but it was very clearly tactical rather than any mark on him, and MW said so publicly after. Being cynical, you could argue that when we looked so crap in the first ~30 minutes, changing the shape and leaving Masterson on could end up scarring him - he'll know that his time will come, CB isn't Cameron's preferred role and two senior CBs have gone, he's still in a good place, even if he doesn't play a big chunk of the end of the season.
Plus, do think it's valid to question his treatment pre/post lockdown, but that's also with the context of our first choice CB and club captain leaving in the interim. So the context of how he's treated is a different one.
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Post by rickyqpr on Jul 13, 2020 16:52:39 GMT
Totally agree about needing two CBs. I'm only going off stuff I've read, but it at least sounds like right sided CBs at Championship level are one of the relatively cheaper holes to fill. On the Masterson thing, do think the judgement on taking him off is maybe a little harsh? Taking MW at his word, Wednesday's front line was different than anticipated and the back five wasn't working, so there was a decision to quickly revert to a back four. Obviously in hindsight, that made cock-all difference! But if we understand the decision to go to a back four, it's only really Masterson or Cameron who can come off. Kakay is the only real choice to end up at RB, Barbet is left-footed and Manning has to go LB. Horrid on balance for a kid that age to go so early, but it was very clearly tactical rather than any mark on him, and MW said so publicly after. Being cynical, you could argue that when we looked so crap in the first ~30 minutes, changing the shape and leaving Masterson on could end up scarring him - he'll know that his time will come, CB isn't Cameron's preferred role and two senior CBs have gone, he's still in a good place, even if he doesn't play a big chunk of the end of the season. Plus, do think it's valid to question his treatment pre/post lockdown, but that's also with the context of our first choice CB and club captain leaving in the interim. So the context of how he's treated is a different one. Well my point is more that if he was true to his nurturing word, he would have opted to take Amos off and push Cameron forward. That would allow him the option to drop Cameron back later on in the game if desired. Amos is only a loan player after all. So I totally accept that the change was tactical, I just think there was a better option and more in keeping with his own philosophy. As you say, Centre half is not Cameron's preferred role as well. I would also say that as far as the defence stands generally, questions are valid about our defending at set pieces. We have conceded so many goals from free kicks and corners. We also choose not to have anyone on the line, so another one to tackle for next season's training ground.
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Post by londonranger on Jul 13, 2020 17:49:43 GMT
Apparently Massimo Luongo was the best half back on the field against Wednesday.
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Post by bowranger on Jul 14, 2020 8:25:55 GMT
Totally agree about needing two CBs. I'm only going off stuff I've read, but it at least sounds like right sided CBs at Championship level are one of the relatively cheaper holes to fill. On the Masterson thing, do think the judgement on taking him off is maybe a little harsh? Taking MW at his word, Wednesday's front line was different than anticipated and the back five wasn't working, so there was a decision to quickly revert to a back four. Obviously in hindsight, that made cock-all difference! But if we understand the decision to go to a back four, it's only really Masterson or Cameron who can come off. Kakay is the only real choice to end up at RB, Barbet is left-footed and Manning has to go LB. Horrid on balance for a kid that age to go so early, but it was very clearly tactical rather than any mark on him, and MW said so publicly after. Being cynical, you could argue that when we looked so crap in the first ~30 minutes, changing the shape and leaving Masterson on could end up scarring him - he'll know that his time will come, CB isn't Cameron's preferred role and two senior CBs have gone, he's still in a good place, even if he doesn't play a big chunk of the end of the season. Plus, do think it's valid to question his treatment pre/post lockdown, but that's also with the context of our first choice CB and club captain leaving in the interim. So the context of how he's treated is a different one. Well my point is more that if he was true to his nurturing word, he would have opted to take Amos off and push Cameron forward. That would allow him the option to drop Cameron back later on in the game if desired. Amos is only a loan player after all. So I totally accept that the change was tactical, I just think there was a better option and more in keeping with his own philosophy. As you say, Centre half is not Cameron's preferred role as well. I would also say that as far as the defence stands generally, questions are valid about our defending at set pieces. We have conceded so many goals from free kicks and corners. We also choose not to have anyone on the line, so another one to tackle for next season's training ground. Hmm yeah good point, I didn't think about Cameron dropping into midfield as a possibility. Cameron and Ball (almost a pun, there) would be quite a...meaty DM partnership. I often forget that Amos is on loan, as is our desire to play him so often. I know MW rates him, half of me wonders if there's performances attached to the loan deal too - I'd certainly heard that, with a lot of Championship clubs tightening belts, there's even more competition for Prem loan signings, so they have the power to attach more demands to the deals (e.g. number of first team appearances). But who knows. Also agree on the set piece defending. I genuinely have no idea what we're even supposed to be doing - it's like some kind of zonal/man-marking hybrid where neither is done. Particularly with Hugill injured and Hall gone, we lack height at set pieces...which to me says, you're less likely to win the first ball which logically means, put someone on the bloody line (although I should point out, as you may know, my dad is a staunch believer in not 'wasting' a player on the line!).
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Post by rickyqpr on Jul 14, 2020 10:55:58 GMT
Well my point is more that if he was true to his nurturing word, he would have opted to take Amos off and push Cameron forward. That would allow him the option to drop Cameron back later on in the game if desired. Amos is only a loan player after all. So I totally accept that the change was tactical, I just think there was a better option and more in keeping with his own philosophy. As you say, Centre half is not Cameron's preferred role as well. I would also say that as far as the defence stands generally, questions are valid about our defending at set pieces. We have conceded so many goals from free kicks and corners. We also choose not to have anyone on the line, so another one to tackle for next season's training ground. Hmm yeah good point, I didn't think about Cameron dropping into midfield as a possibility. Cameron and Ball (almost a pun, there) would be quite a...meaty DM partnership. I often forget that Amos is on loan, as is our desire to play him so often. I know MW rates him, half of me wonders if there's performances attached to the loan deal too - I'd certainly heard that, with a lot of Championship clubs tightening belts, there's even more competition for Prem loan signings, so they have the power to attach more demands to the deals (e.g. number of first team appearances). But who knows. Also agree on the set piece defending. I genuinely have no idea what we're even supposed to be doing - it's like some kind of zonal/man-marking hybrid where neither is done. Particularly with Hugill injured and Hall gone, we lack height at set pieces...which to me says, you're less likely to win the first ball which logically means, put someone on the bloody line (although I should point out, as you may know, my dad is a staunch believer in not 'wasting' a player on the line!). I think the man on the line is generally as much a keeper's call as the coach's call. I agree it wastes a man, but when it is hard to see where any of our players are supposed to be anyway for set pieces, it all becomes somewhat academic. We also have deployed our centre forwards to track the tallest opponent at set pieces, but playing without a centre forward makes that a bit harder! none of it would matter if it looked as if we knew what we are doing, but like you, I do not know what system we operate. In the main it works. But when it doesn't work, it always seems to cost us a goal. Seems like one player asleep and the whole system falls apart.
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Post by rickyqpr on Jul 16, 2020 14:59:28 GMT
Perhaps we could try to update this thread as and when new transfer stories emerge.
In the meantime......
Central Defender we have been linked with of Late
Jonathan Dinzeyi (Tottenham) Free Agent Rob Dickie (Oxford United) Contracted until June 2021 (Forest leading the chase @£3m valuation) Sam Hutchinson (Sheffield Wednesday) Valued @£1.4m but he is a Free Agent David Bates (Hamburg) Valued @ £500k. Contracted until June 2022 Scott McKenna (Aberdeen) - Long term injury since February. Valued @ £1.8m Contracted until June 2023
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