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Post by terryb on Jun 5, 2018 18:07:24 GMT
I've read that the BBC are reporting that Villa have missed a payment to the taxman & have removed their CEO from office with the owner replacing him.
The tax is expected to be paid within the next 48 hours, but it doesn't auger well for them.
Perhaps they will be able to compete with their neighbours as to who has less capital!
Edit* I've just seen that it was a post from Ashdown that I've read, so I'm sure he will be able to provide the link.
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Post by Ashdown_Ranger on Jun 6, 2018 14:23:10 GMT
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Post by kenthoop on Jun 6, 2018 15:30:12 GMT
owner taken over to try and stop the cub getting into the hands of administrators ,it looks a bit like us i agree Ashdown de ja vu
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Post by kenthoop on Jun 6, 2018 15:57:34 GMT
take a look at the article in the Mirror ,apparently the owner has been bank rolling the club since he arrived ,money would be paid into the account from China every month but for the last three months noyhing has been paid in so they have been trying to get money from other sources to pay wages HMRC etc
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Post by terryb on Jun 7, 2018 9:17:03 GMT
Thanks Ashdown.
This does look to be a serious problem for Villa. It also begs the question as to whether the monthly £4 million payments from Xia are allowable against FFP?
If the Chinese government are stopping Xia from exporting money, the future looks quite bleak.
On another club, my son informed me that Palace are also in trouble for not lodging their accounts with Companies House. That is normally a sign of impending problems.
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Post by bowranger on Jun 7, 2018 9:45:57 GMT
The Chinese government being able to stop that level of finance from leaving the country ("irrational" investment is how they describe it) definitely has precedents in football. Wanda who owned a big chunk of Athletico Madrid were forced into selling 17% of their stake under similar circumstances not that long ago.
I presume the issue facing Villa is securing additional finance for the short term (which I believe they may have done) and whether these restrictions are going to make Xia's continued involvement at Villa worthwhile and/or whether another buyer can be found. Which is a harder sell as they're now in a far worse position than when Xia came in.
As their old Finance Director, Mark Ansell, said they've "gone to the casino, rolled the dice and it hasn't worked". Which considering the figures on the other thread about the Deloitte financial league table, makes a lot of sense - the promise of Premier League money is an incentive for gambling for clubs. Which in terms of FFP and the logic of preventing clubs from behaving unsustainably is very frustrating.
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Post by rickyqpr on Jun 7, 2018 11:58:23 GMT
It is a strange emotion when other clubs hit trouble like this. It certainly helps understand why supporters of other clubs took against our plight with a 'serve you right' reaction. I do not wish ill on any club and sympathise that the FFP is so daft - or administered so daft. But in Villa's case, it is hard to ignore the John Terry angle. He stated how gutted he was to miss out on promotion with Villa. He missed out on a £2m promotion bonus - so there is a silver lining. But it was a great pay packet for him and now he can just walk away now leaving the grieving Villa fans to rue what could have been - and what will happen next. As QPR fans we know just how that feels with mercenaries, but with Terry..............how bad must that be? No doubt Terry will pop up with yet another Championship contract - maybe Derby. Sigh...
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Post by bowranger on Jun 8, 2018 9:27:48 GMT
It is a strange emotion when other clubs hit trouble like this. It certainly helps understand why supporters of other clubs took against our plight with a 'serve you right' reaction. I do not wish ill on any club and sympathise that the FFP is so daft - or administered so daft. But in Villa's case, it is hard to ignore the John Terry angle. He stated how gutted he was to miss out on promotion with Villa. He missed out on a £2m promotion bonus - so there is a silver lining. But it was a great pay packet for him and now he can just walk away now leaving the grieving Villa fans to rue what could have been - and what will happen next. As QPR fans we know just how that feels with mercenaries, but with Terry..............how bad must that be? No doubt Terry will pop up with yet another Championship contract - maybe Derby. Sigh... I agree, it's definitely a weird set of emotions and loads of finicky bits of rivalry and bitterness get sucked into it when perhaps it shouldn't. Thinking back, the way Luton were treated by the Football League was monstrous and heavy handed in principle but I didn't care because of my experience with their fans. Meanwhile I felt loads of sympathy for fans of clubs like Accrington Stanley and Darlington when their clubs were in trouble. Ditto Coventry and the way they were ruined by SISU. Very different situations obviously but football is full of hypocrisy - it's still fans (most of which are just people like us) having the club they love be put through the ringer. In the same way, I said to plenty of mates who took the piss out of us during the Ecclestone and Briatore era that they should think about the fans who are being priced out and alienated who are people just like them. But hypocritically, I find it hard to feel bad for Villa because of Terry and because of the way they financially doped the league...even though we acted similarly in the past! People rightly point to Villa fans online who spend every waking moment trying to twist the facts to make out that Xia actually means well in everything he does and defending the transfer spending and go "well, you reap what you sow". But by the same token, we had more than our fair share of people crowing about us swimming with money and we can't forget we even had "We R Richer Than You" signs in the home end during our period of financial madness. Football's weird innit?
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Post by sharky on Jun 8, 2018 14:56:03 GMT
With all the sh1t we copped when we were spending like miners on pay day I feel very little for Villa who are doing the same.
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Post by rickyqpr on Jun 8, 2018 19:57:24 GMT
At some point the football authorities have to wake up and smell the coffee regarding FFP. It is not delivering what it was supposed to and it is forcing clubs into extreme measures and then placing them in financial peril as they try to deal with the consequences (don't we know it!). Look at West Brom and the transfer of Jonny Evans to Leicester. Last Summer WBA gambled £25m when they rejected an offer from Leicester. Had they sold Evans the fans would have accused the board of lacking ambition and accepting relegation as a consequence. So they had little choice but to reject the offer. Now Evans has joined Leicester today for £3.5m due to his release clause. Albion have lost over £20m gambling on survival - and he hardly played in 2018. WBA prior to this year was a well run club. The original idea was to protect clubs from unworthy owners. That does not seem to have happened in some cases but instead, worthy wealthy owners are unable to invest in their clubs now even when they want to. If QPR receive a massive fine for our part in the fiasco it will just add to the total injustice that is FFP with the long suffering fans the real casualties.
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Post by Ashdown_Ranger on Jun 9, 2018 9:55:06 GMT
I have the feeling that the EFL will not back down against us on the full FFP fine.... Agreed 57, I think that's been perfectly clear all along - hence our appeal against the fine they want to impose. My understanding is that we are no longer appealing against EFL's right to impose a penalty for breaking the rules, just the amount of that penalty. I think English law doesn't allow a fine made against a business of such a size that it threatens the existence of that business. To my mind, we have made losses for as long as I can remember - so a £40-£50m fine could bankrupt us and would therefore be unreasonable. The shareholders could afford pay a fine of that amount between them out of personal funds, but the EFL has not accepted the shareholders' rights to write off their debts - so, by the same logic, that should not be a consideration in arriving at a final judgement. Given the level of fines/settlements over the last year or so with other clubs, I would hope and expect that a similar 'deal' could be struck. That said, we are being prosecuted under the old FFP rules - and the EFL does seem to be acting in a particularly vindictive manner against us. Let's hope it can be settled before the new season starts.
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Post by gladstoneparkranger on Jun 9, 2018 23:42:29 GMT
I have the feeling that the EFL will not back down against us on the full FFP fine.... Agreed 57, I think that's been perfectly clear all along - hence our appeal against the fine they want to impose. My understanding is that we are no longer appealing against EFL's right to impose a penalty for breaking the rules, just the amount of that penalty. I think English law doesn't allow a fine made against a business of such a size that it threatens the existence of that business. To my mind, we have made losses for as long as I can remember - so a £40-£50m fine could bankrupt us and would therefore be unreasonable. The shareholders could afford pay a fine of that amount between them out of personal funds, but the EFL has not accepted the shareholders' rights to write off their debts - so, by the same logic, that should not be a consideration in arriving at a final judgement. Given the level of fines/settlements over the last year or so with other clubs, I would hope and expect that a similar 'deal' could be struck. That said, we are being prosecuted under the old FFP rules - and the EFL does seem to be acting in a particularly vindictive manner against us. Let's hope it can be settled before the new season starts. Some posts just nail it and this is one of them ... almost Ingram like ! ... As a side point .. has anyone heard from Ingram?.. loved his well thought out posts
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Post by bowranger on Jun 10, 2018 11:53:45 GMT
Agreed 57, I think that's been perfectly clear all along - hence our appeal against the fine they want to impose. My understanding is that we are no longer appealing against EFL's right to impose a penalty for breaking the rules, just the amount of that penalty. I think English law doesn't allow a fine made against a business of such a size that it threatens the existence of that business. To my mind, we have made losses for as long as I can remember - so a £40-£50m fine could bankrupt us and would therefore be unreasonable. The shareholders could afford pay a fine of that amount between them out of personal funds, but the EFL has not accepted the shareholders' rights to write off their debts - so, by the same logic, that should not be a consideration in arriving at a final judgement. Given the level of fines/settlements over the last year or so with other clubs, I would hope and expect that a similar 'deal' could be struck. That said, we are being prosecuted under the old FFP rules - and the EFL does seem to be acting in a particularly vindictive manner against us. Let's hope it can be settled before the new season starts. Some posts just nail it and this is one of them ... almost Ingram like ! ... As a side point .. has anyone heard from Ingram?.. loved his well thought out posts Hmm yeah good point, do miss his posts.
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Post by Ashdown_Ranger on Jun 10, 2018 14:10:30 GMT
Agreed 57, I think that's been perfectly clear all along - hence our appeal against the fine they want to impose. My understanding is that we are no longer appealing against EFL's right to impose a penalty for breaking the rules, just the amount of that penalty. I think English law doesn't allow a fine made against a business of such a size that it threatens the existence of that business. To my mind, we have made losses for as long as I can remember - so a £40-£50m fine could bankrupt us and would therefore be unreasonable. The shareholders could afford pay a fine of that amount between them out of personal funds, but the EFL has not accepted the shareholders' rights to write off their debts - so, by the same logic, that should not be a consideration in arriving at a final judgement. Given the level of fines/settlements over the last year or so with other clubs, I would hope and expect that a similar 'deal' could be struck. That said, we are being prosecuted under the old FFP rules - and the EFL does seem to be acting in a particularly vindictive manner against us. Let's hope it can be settled before the new season starts. Some posts just nail it and this is one of them ... almost Ingram like ! ... As a side point .. has anyone heard from Ingram?.. loved his well thought out posts Haha - 'almost Ingram like...'Praise indeed! To be truly Ingram like, I'd have had to go on for another 500 words though...
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Post by Markqpr on Jun 10, 2018 14:33:35 GMT
It's Ingham rather than Ingram. Just not in this instance though. Both apt and sacrilege at the same time!
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Post by rickyqpr on Jun 12, 2018 11:31:34 GMT
Stories today that if Villa do not sack Bruce he will resign anyway. On his way to Leeds apparently - he must be hard up to go there. but if they sack him at Villa his pay off will be £1.5m Astonishing turnaround for the supporters - preparing for a return to the top tier, rumored to be bidding for Luongo with the prospect of him joining up with Grealish, Terry and Chester at they back for another year. Now they do not have a keeper, Grealish on his way out for up to £40m, Chester also on the way out. Sam Johnstone, Robert Snodgrass and Lewis Grabben returned to parent clubs. Every cloud though - Terry has left. £15m drop in parachute payments and on top of all that, their sacked Chief Executive (Wyness) has put in a claim for £5m for constructive dismissal. His defense being that he tried to warn owner (Xia) about the club's impending financial crisis but was ignored. Staggering fine line between success and failure. Newcastle bet the shop but got away with it. Villa bet the shop and face melt down. Respect to Fulham, they got their without betting the shop -0 or so it seems. Respect to Fulham - that hurts doesn't it?
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