harbo
Neil Warnock
YOU R'S!!!!!
Posts: 529
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Post by harbo on Jan 28, 2012 22:33:45 GMT
Now let's look at this not critically but realistically and I would love to hear Hitman, Floridar etc opinion on this. In my opinion with the squad that was available to NW (the squad MH has had for the past 4 games) has he really done any better than NW did with them? Lost to Newcastle (who were very poor and had 2 of their best players missing), played awfully and scraped past League 1 MK dons, beat Wigan well 3-1 (but Wigan were by far and away the worst team we have played this season and were a lot worse than some of the championship teams we beat last season), and then the most lacklustre dire performance against our arch rivals and a 1-0 loss.
No, I'm not calling for MH's head or anything stupid or kneejerk like that but has he really done any better with the squad and players available to NW than NW did himself? For the most we have lacked passion and creativity and we have won 2 games against extremely poor teams and lost games to 2 average sides at best. Now, MH will more than likely have a bunch of new players for the next game and we may well improve and hopefully we go on a nice unbeaten run, but the question is could NW have done this with new players aswell, because at the moment it looks like MH is doing nothing different and achieving no more than NW was on course to with the squad available. opinions please.......
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Post by RoryTheRanger on Jan 28, 2012 22:41:22 GMT
Yes a lot has changed IMO. The team has a definite shape now which wasn't there before and the defence has been superb since MH came in. We've haven't conceded more than one goal in a game since he came in.
We wouldn't have beaten Wigan with NW. He would have started Derry over Buzz and would have started Bothroyd over DJ. MH coming in gave a lot of the players more confidence, especially Buzz.
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Post by RoryTheRanger on Jan 28, 2012 22:42:42 GMT
Also I doubt Warnock would have been able to talk Onouha into coming and definitely would never have even though of bringing a player like Taiwo in.
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harbo
Neil Warnock
YOU R'S!!!!!
Posts: 529
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Post by harbo on Jan 28, 2012 22:52:19 GMT
Good points Rory, I still think NW would have put a team out to beat Wigan, they were god awful. And Buzz had a good game against Wigan but against the scum he was non existent and was completely outclassed. Realistically DJ did nothing against Wigan and got injured again, I think Bothroyd would have done the same or more against Wigan. We aren't conceding as many, but we sure as hell aren't scoring more and our games are nowhere near as good to watch under hughes.
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Post by harlowranger on Jan 28, 2012 22:53:04 GMT
Dont think NW Would have landed Onuaha or Taiwo and would definitely not got Alex , Alex and Onu being the two deals NW did think he would land .
Not even the messiah could have made that team beat Chelsea today nothing upfront , Macheda looks p1ss poor , DJ and Bothroyd always injured and Hulse come on !!!
Unless we sign two Strikers by tuesday we will Struggle to score goals which has been our problem all season , Newcastle showed us that.
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Post by RoryTheRanger on Jan 28, 2012 22:57:02 GMT
Good points Rory, I still think NW would have put a team out to beat Wigan, they were god awful. And Buzz had a good game against Wigan but against the scum he was non existent and was completely outclassed. Realistically DJ did nothing against Wigan and got injured again, I think Bothroyd would have done the same or more against Wigan. We aren't conceding as many, but we sure as hell aren't scoring more and our games are nowhere near as good to watch under hughes. To be honest though he hasn't really got properly started yet has he?? The two FA Cup games weren't important and he's only had two league games, one of which was a much needed win. I think this is a question better asked in a month or so. We also have to see who else Sparky can bring in over the coming days. |
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Post by hitman34 on Jan 28, 2012 23:22:25 GMT
Now let's look at this not critically but realistically and I would love to hear Hitman, Floridar etc opinion on this. In my opinion with the squad that was available to NW (the squad MH has had for the past 4 games) has he really done any better than NW did with them? Lost to Newcastle (who were very poor and had 2 of their best players missing), played awfully and scraped past League 1 MK dons, beat Wigan well 3-1 (but Wigan were by far and away the worst team we have played this season and were a lot worse than some of the championship teams we beat last season), and then the most lacklustre dire performance against our arch rivals and a 1-0 loss. No, I'm not calling for MH's head or anything stupid or kneejerk like that but has he really done any better with the squad and players available to NW than NW did himself? For the most we have lacked passion and creativity and we have won 2 games against extremely poor teams and lost games to 2 average sides at best. Now, MH will more than likely have a bunch of new players for the next game and we may well improve and hopefully we go on a nice unbeaten run, but the question is could NW have done this with new players aswell, because at the moment it looks like MH is doing nothing different and achieving no more than NW was on course to with the squad available. opinions please....... firstly harbo, wqe lost our three best players for the newcastle game also. in furlin, trore and tarrabt. yes we were usless againts mk dons but you have to remember that hughes has only been in the job for 1 pultry week by the time the mk dons came to town. but we got the win. our first win in two and a half months might i add. yes we totally out played wigan and i agree with you 100% that wigan are by far the worst team that we have met this season but it did not stop us getting beaten pretty badly by them back in augast under warnocks leadership. yes we have won 2 and lost 2, but look at the MASSIVE IMPROVEMENT IN OUR DEFENCE. wigan had 1 shot on target which was a dead ball situation and other than the dodgy penalty i cant remember much else that troubled kenny against chelsea. where as against wigan and newcastle alone, we manged 40.... yes 40 attempts on goal combined. the effort and respect for the manager is there, but hughes can only do so much with what he has inheretid as this is warnocks team. with hughes, we can attracted better qwuality players unlike warnock. i never wanted warnock from the start of this season but i gave the man 3 months to prove me wrong but he failed big time. hughes i am happy with but he has to produce the goods, lets see what the team will be playing like in march onwards. |
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Post by mikehunt on Jan 28, 2012 23:28:51 GMT
do you think starting tommy smith in a big game like today when he hasnt hardly played all season was a good decision from hughes then, and one you would of aplauded warnock for if he did the same thing?
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Post by RoryTheRanger on Jan 28, 2012 23:37:45 GMT
do you think starting tommy smith in a big game like today when he hasnt hardly played all season was a good decision from hughes then, and one you would of aplauded warnock for if he did the same thing? Who else could he have played?? Macheda isn't a player I would imagine Hughes even wants and has even less game time than Smith. Hulse has had no time at all. |
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Post by Macmoish on Jan 28, 2012 23:39:06 GMT
As usual you're forgetting Rowan Vine! (or Balanta who's back with us!)
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Post by hitman34 on Jan 28, 2012 23:39:29 GMT
personally i would not have tommy in the starting line up, so no i dont applaud that.
neither do i applaud rob hulse being in the squad.
your point?
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Post by RoryTheRanger on Jan 28, 2012 23:40:35 GMT
personally i would not have tommy in the starting line up, so no i dont applaud that. neither do i applaud rob hulse being in the squad. your point? Yeah I agree, I don't agree with either but we didn't really have a choice with our recent injuries. |
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harbo
Neil Warnock
YOU R'S!!!!!
Posts: 529
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Post by harbo on Jan 29, 2012 0:08:06 GMT
Some good points made Hitman, however the game we lost against Wigan earlier in the season we had THE weakest line up we have had all season. Agyemang was on his own up front, Perone was playing CB and we even had to bring on Michael Harriman with 20 mins to go and both goals from wigan were deflections and we hit the post twice in that game, so to compare this game to the one we won 3-1 is pretty pointless and extremely unfair and harsh on NW.
The point I am making is the squad available to Hughes is not neccessarily doing any better than it was under NW, and the point I am trying to make is that the blame for shit performances and bad results has to lie on the players as much as the manager. NW did the best he could with what we all admit is a thread bare squad, he managed to get some cracking away wins against Stoke, Everton and Wolves. I have no doubt with financial backing NW would have been able to get the players he wanted to get in, but the only true comparison you can get between MH and NW is to compare how they managed the same poor squad, and in my eyes they have managed it similarly.
We have to remember that luck also plays a part in things, SWP disallowed goal against WBA which would have put us 2-0 up and who knows what a great goal like that would have done for SWP's confidence? Barton's sending off against Norwich, the numerous clearances off the line against Newcastle at home, the shocking penalty given at home against Villa against Traore. The margins between NW getting those extra 6-9 points that would have seen him still at the helm of the club and us judging the 1st half of the season as a success were small at best. Unfortunately, it is true that our owners especially TF are not football people and don't realise that these margins are not because of poor management but because of bad luck and players, ironically players that ended up no doubt having a word in the ear of TF to help get rid of NW.
I support Hughes, as I back anyone who is in charge of my beloved QPR, but we have to ask what more will he really do for us in the long run and if we do (god forbid) go down, it wont look too pretty with a manager of a 3million quid contract, and will he really stick around if we go down to the championship. Loyalty and faith are words without much substance in todays game but in NW I think if we had shown a little more of these 2 things, in the long term we would have benefitted from it.
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harbo
Neil Warnock
YOU R'S!!!!!
Posts: 529
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Post by harbo on Jan 29, 2012 0:09:39 GMT
And to answer the questions about our defence, against newcastle at home we kept a clean sheet and against chelsea in the league at home we kept a clean sheet under NW.
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Post by londonranger on Jan 29, 2012 0:17:38 GMT
Agree totoally with Rory, with one exception. Smith earned a start today after that wonderful massive strike last week that secured the three vital points. He also scored the only goal in a 1-0 win. Sparky is the Spark, we needed to ignite this team.
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Post by mikehunt on Jan 29, 2012 0:29:03 GMT
personally i would not have tommy in the starting line up, so no i dont applaud that. neither do i applaud rob hulse being in the squad. your point? my point is, you said earlier that you gave warnock 3 months and he did a terrible job, but hughes does the same thing today (even worse imho), isnt it cos of the poor squad and nothing to do with the manager? after this window, fair enough, but your mate wasnt afforded that luxury was he. |
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Post by twohalfs on Jan 29, 2012 0:36:54 GMT
Some points
Hughes is not known for making an immediate big impact on teams he takes over. His success in improving teams has in the past been steady and sustained, based on organisation and good recruitment.
He lost a key member of the team (Faurlin) just as he took over, plus two to the African Nations Cup.
He stated that he would give everyone a chance and has been trying as many players as he reasonably can.
The defence is looking more composed and difficult to score against, despite Hill and arguably Hall, not being first choices.
I think Warnock would have given up in the FA Cup with just two days recovery after Newcastle and the Wigan game to come. We would have had the ignomony of losing to MK Dons at home to cope with. He would then have got a win against Wigan, just.
So I'm with those that think that Hughes is achieving more than Warnock could have achieved. More to the point Hughes will go on to achieve much more.
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Post by Macmoish on Jan 29, 2012 0:39:12 GMT
I think you're probably right, two halts
I guess just some of us find it offensive the vitriolic attacks on Warnock - and the blind eye to things that were they to happen while Warnock was manager would have been cited to show how incompetent Warnock was. and so respond.
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Post by nomar on Jan 29, 2012 8:42:40 GMT
Well, to have kept Warnock on you would have to have been convinced that the players were going to have been right behind him for what would be the most important stretch of the season.
Because if you didn't believe that then keeping him now became irrelevant.
Considering we can safely now say that , at the very least, he'd already lost his club captain and NW has admitted he was being slowly poisoned by people inside the club then any logical conclusion would be that an improvement would only be possible with a change of leadership.
Clearly, if after 2 cup games and 2 league games we're already playing the "Warnock would have gotten the same results" card then we haven't fully let go and moved on yet.
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Post by terryb on Jan 29, 2012 11:56:29 GMT
We are now playing with a shape that had been missing for quite a long time. Also defensively we are looking sound.
On the question of whether you are happy that Smith played, I for one would hope that we never needed him to be on the bench, let alone in the starting side.
His selection states more than anything else how thin the quality within the club is.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2012 12:23:03 GMT
I would like us to have at least 10 games under Hughes before we discuss this
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tom007
Dave Sexton
Posts: 1,612
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Post by tom007 on Jan 29, 2012 16:54:34 GMT
my opinion is plain and simple.
we are looking fitter , more organised , and to put it bluntly we got a sh.t midfield .
to be fair to Hughes i am surprised but glad he took the job he has come in with a side that quite honestly is a complete shambles.
you got 2-3 players that have wanted to run things not mentioning their names but before picking on the obvious i am also speaking of a young player away with his country currently who acts like a child when not getting his way.lol
we needed someone in quite honestly with a backbone who will get repect from the players , who will have the players listen to him.hughes is that man.
our problem has been defence and midfield , not attack.
hulse ,bothroyd campbell attacked regularly although i can see why if they dont get the service they aint gonna score simple as.
rooney,balotelli they all miss but with the quality of midfield they get enough chances to put 1or 2 away eventually .
derry too old,mackie courageous but not premiere league, smith not good enough good goal v wigan though.once the service from midfield is better you would see goals from our forwards i am certain dont forget DJ scored enough for blackpool in premiere last season and bothroyd has not become useless overnight he is a good striker that is for sure just needs the service.
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tom007
Dave Sexton
Posts: 1,612
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Post by tom007 on Jan 29, 2012 17:00:58 GMT
PS.
also hughes said he would give everyone a second chance and full marks to him for that.
although i would never give vine or agyemang anymore chances in my opinion they need putting out of their misery.
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Post by klr on Jan 29, 2012 17:05:13 GMT
I'll start judging Hughes from wednesday onwards.
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kilburnhoop
Dave Sexton
Every Ranger is a danger
Posts: 1,631
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Post by kilburnhoop on Jan 29, 2012 17:32:14 GMT
In a word YES. The shape of the team has improved 10 fold. We look like we can defend again. If anyone doubts this cast your mind back to the west brom game at home and west broms goal. 7 mins to go and we got caught up the pitch all over the place. Wont happen under hughes.
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Post by nomar on Jan 29, 2012 21:33:49 GMT
PS. also hughes said he would give everyone a second chance and full marks to him for that. although i would never give vine or agyemang anymore chances in my opinion they need putting out of their misery. Very true, sadly so especially about Vine and Agyemang.  |
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Post by ozhoop on Jan 30, 2012 6:13:17 GMT
Yes .I dont shit myself when we concede a corner now.He's doing something right with the defense and general shape of the team and thats without the new signings.
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Post by Macmoish on Jan 30, 2012 9:34:06 GMT
I've seen NO sign of "Misery" from Vine or Agyemang - or Borrowdale...Just a happy hand held out: Prefer pay at QPR rather than play elsewhere.
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