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Post by cpr on Jan 6, 2012 20:44:24 GMT
Or any representatives that may read this site. Re: Neil Warnock and his warnockers!Posted by saphilip, today at 5.29pm. Says it for most. Granted his record is not on the same level as say a Pep [Guardiola] or a [Jose] Mourinho or a Sir Alex [Ferguson] but NW has managed 7 teams [6 but 1 of them twice] to promotion - and in its own right that is a record worthy of a special mention.
I cannot think of many other coaches worldwide, if any, who have matched that record - far less beat it. As I say not something that [Sir Alex] Ferguson would want on his CV, but there are plenty of coaches worldwide who would love to have 3 or more promotions on their CV - and here we have somebody with SEVEN.
In other words he is hardly anybody's fool when it comes to coaching.
Now we are starting to hear stories of he isn't a Premeirship coach, he has taken as far as he could ... blah, blah, blah ... and it is time for him to go.
Funny that
I heard the same story exactly 7 years ago with another coach - and it was nearly the same, i.e. this guy is a bottom 2 div coach, he has taken the club as far as he coulld ... blah, blah, dee bloody blah. Well that coach sure proved the doubtors wrong as Ian Holloway took Blackpool - everybody's favourite for relegation from the Championship - to Premier league football :- and on their budget made a decent fight of it when they got there.
Sadly football has become a quick fix sport - where coaches must deliver or else - and when you consider that only 4 or 5 teams are ikely to win trophies or play Champions League football and that 3 teams ar always going to be relegated or promoted from each division there is hardly much room for error - and so every season countless good managers end up on the scrapheap.
Think about it - our 2 most succesful coaches Alec Stock (over 7 years) and Terry Venables (just under 4 years) would never stand a chance in this day and age of quick results or get out demands.
Consider the facts just under 2 years ago. Make no mistake QPR were heading for relegation to League 1 and the club was a mess. In came one Neil Warnock [championed and backed by Amit Bhatia] and not only did he stop the slide but less than 15 months after he took charge took us to the Championship title. Surely he deserved a chance to manage us in ther Premiership? After all a month ago hardly anybody was calling for his head - so has he become a crap coach in 5 weeks?
I think we need to face reality here - many of us I assume were all expecting us to be near the bottom rather than the top - and surely all of us realised that our aim was to finish outside the bottom 4 - and the implications that goes with that.
The bookies went one better - they had us as firm favourites for the drop. Pundits and casual fans agreed with that as well. Why?
Because they didn't like Neil Warnock or QPR? Possibly they do not like us but those guys are in the business to make money and they knew that thanks to the delays in the takeover of QPR we were never going to have enough time to get the players that we needed for us to do well in this division. While we sat around twiddling our thumbs on non existent funds, Norwich, Swansea and the like got cracking and added players - and the bookies knew that - amd to be honest, so did I.
The time given to NW to buy players was never going to be enough - and by then the best palyers on everybody's list had long been bought.
So we get rid of him - so who do we replace him with? Why a Premeirship Coach I hear people say. Well who are they because surely those "Premiership Coaches" are without a job for a reason? Those that do jobs are hardly likey to resign their position to take over QPR either. In addition if we do go down will that same "Premeirship Coach" have the know how to get us promoted again?
And consider this. This is not the first time that people have expressed doubts that NW had taken the club as far as he could once he got them promoted. Many of the clubs that he was in charge of are in a considerably worse posistion than when they were when he left them [take a swift look at Sheffield United now].
Be careful what you wish for - because while I believe NW is hardly perfect he is by no means the worst coach ever to be in charge of QPR. And we always seem to make a habit of replacing a very good coach with a truly bad one (the only exception that I can think of is Dave Sexton replacing Gordon Jago).
And those people who are demanding that TF release the purse strings - again be careful what you wish for. I'm sure QPR can survive a relegation - it might not survive mad spending in a desperate gamble to keep us up. Read more: qprreport.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=28652&page=3#ixzz1iiA3gT6KI decided this post was not only worthy of it's own thread but of being more visible in the grand scheme of QPR related internet messageboad bollox. Board please take note, this is certainly not bollox. |
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Post by cpr on Jan 6, 2012 20:53:59 GMT
For the benefit of balance, the best warnocking post I've seen so far. People want Warnock out because they've now seen enough to be convinced of what the rest of the football world already knew, namely that he is not good enough at this level.
People also want Mark Hughes because they see a man there who has ambition and vision to match guys like Bhatia, Mittal and Fernandes. They see a man who has managed three clubs and gotten top 10 Premier League finishes at every one of them. They see a man who has taken every club he's managed into Europe and who revived Wales national team when it was at rock bottom.
We all wanted Warnock to succeed, but there comes a point when you have to detach yourself from emotion, look at the cold hard facts and realize that the man is out of his depth at this level. I can assure you that Fernandes, Beard and Mittal have already done just that and it looks like they're reaching (or in all truth have probably already reached) the same conclusion.
The truth is that if TF is serious about staying up and moving the club forward then Warnock has to go. Because if Warnock stays then, even if by some miracle we stay up this season, we will be in the same position again next year.
Hughes would attract players to this club that Warnock never could. Hughes knows how to handle Premier League players and the egos that come with them. Warnock's methods work in the Championship. They don't cut it in the dressing rooms of the Premier League.
As sad as it is, this is really as good as it will ever get with Warnock.
The people that you are sneering at for wanting Warnock out are wanting him gone for one reason only. And that is because they care enough about this club to know that if we are to have any future in this league he has to be relieved of his duties. Read more: qprreport.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=28679&page=3#ixzz1iiGWOUMyBoard, also please take note, although consider the evidential value of both. Time for a poll methinks. ;D |
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andygg
Dave Sexton
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Post by andygg on Jan 6, 2012 20:55:33 GMT
Good post and very true.
First post obviously.
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Post by RoryTheRanger on Jan 6, 2012 20:55:58 GMT
Post of the year, there won't be a better post for a long long time.
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Post by maudesfishnchips on Jan 6, 2012 20:56:26 GMT
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Post by cpr on Jan 6, 2012 21:00:35 GMT
Sorry, can posters edit and ensure which post you are referring to even though I know it's the original.
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Post by alfaranger on Jan 6, 2012 21:01:32 GMT
Or any representatives that may read this site. Re: Neil Warnock and his warnockers!Posted by saphilip, today at 5.29pm. Says it for most. Granted his record is not on the same level as say a Pep [Guardiola] or a [Jose] Mourinho or a Sir Alex [Ferguson] but NW has managed 7 teams [6 but 1 of them twice] to promotion - and in its own right that is a record worthy of a special mention.
I cannot think of many other coaches worldwide, if any, who have matched that record - far less beat it. As I say not something that [Sir Alex] Ferguson would want on his CV, but there are plenty of coaches worldwide who would love to have 3 or more promotions on their CV - and here we have somebody with SEVEN.
In other words he is hardly anybody's fool when it comes to coaching.
Now we are starting to hear stories of he isn't a Premeirship coach, he has taken as far as he could ... blah, blah, blah ... and it is time for him to go.
Funny that
I heard the same story exactly 7 years ago with another coach - and it was nearly the same, i.e. this guy is a bottom 2 div coach, he has taken the club as far as he coulld ... blah, blah, dee bloody blah. Well that coach sure proved the doubtors wrong as Ian Holloway took Blackpool - everybody's favourite for relegation from the Championship - to Premier league football :- and on their budget made a decent fight of it when they got there.
Sadly football has become a quick fix sport - where coaches must deliver or else - and when you consider that only 4 or 5 teams are ikely to win trophies or play Champions League football and that 3 teams ar always going to be relegated or promoted from each division there is hardly much room for error - and so every season countless good managers end up on the scrapheap.
Think about it - our 2 most succesful coaches Alec Stock (over 7 years) and Terry Venables (just under 4 years) would never stand a chance in this day and age of quick results or get out demands.
Consider the facts just under 2 years ago. Make no mistake QPR were heading for relegation to League 1 and the club was a mess. In came one Neil Warnock [championed and backed by Amit Bhatia] and not only did he stop the slide but less than 15 months after he took charge took us to the Championship title. Surely he deserved a chance to manage us in ther Premiership? After all a month ago hardly anybody was calling for his head - so has he become a crap coach in 5 weeks?
I think we need to face reality here - many of us I assume were all expecting us to be near the bottom rather than the top - and surely all of us realised that our aim was to finish outside the bottom 4 - and the implications that goes with that.
The bookies went one better - they had us as firm favourites for the drop. Pundits and casual fans agreed with that as well. Why?
Because they didn't like Neil Warnock or QPR? Possibly they do not like us but those guys are in the business to make money and they knew that thanks to the delays in the takeover of QPR we were never going to have enough time to get the players that we needed for us to do well in this division. While we sat around twiddling our thumbs on non existent funds, Norwich, Swansea and the like got cracking and added players - and the bookies knew that - amd to be honest, so did I.
The time given to NW to buy players was never going to be enough - and by then the best palyers on everybody's list had long been bought.
So we get rid of him - so who do we replace him with? Why a Premeirship Coach I hear people say. Well who are they because surely those "Premiership Coaches" are without a job for a reason? Those that do jobs are hardly likey to resign their position to take over QPR either. In addition if we do go down will that same "Premeirship Coach" have the know how to get us promoted again?
And consider this. This is not the first time that people have expressed doubts that NW had taken the club as far as he could once he got them promoted. Many of the clubs that he was in charge of are in a considerably worse posistion than when they were when he left them [take a swift look at Sheffield United now].
Be careful what you wish for - because while I believe NW is hardly perfect he is by no means the worst coach ever to be in charge of QPR. And we always seem to make a habit of replacing a very good coach with a truly bad one (the only exception that I can think of is Dave Sexton replacing Gordon Jago).
And those people who are demanding that TF release the purse strings - again be careful what you wish for. I'm sure QPR can survive a relegation - it might not survive mad spending in a desperate gamble to keep us up. Read more: qprreport.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=28652&page=3#ixzz1iiA3gT6KI decided this post was not only worthy of it's own thread but of being more visible in the grand scheme of QPR related internet messageboad bollox. Board please take note, this is certainly not bollox. well said!  |
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Post by RoryTheRanger on Jan 6, 2012 21:01:57 GMT
Sorry, can posters edit and ensure which post you are referring to even though I know it's the original. The first one, the pro-warnock one. |
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Post by Macmoish on Jan 6, 2012 21:10:50 GMT
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Post by Macmoish on Jan 6, 2012 21:21:25 GMT
I added a tweet re this thread.
There's obviously no certain "right" answer. No assurance that if we keep Warnock, we stay up; that if we replace him, we stay up.
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Post by fraserinbc on Jan 6, 2012 21:31:43 GMT
There's obviously no certain "right" answer. No assurance that if we keep Warnock, we stay up; that if we replace him, we stay up. It's a win, win situation. If we keep Warnock and we go down, then we should have gotten rid of him. If we get rid of Warnock and we go down, then we didn't get the right bloke in. If we get rid of Warnock and they get our chosen manager in and we go down, well, we didn't get rid of Warnock early enough. QPR Supporters - sometimes right, sometimes wrong, but always certain. |
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Post by oliverjames on Jan 6, 2012 21:39:41 GMT
With reference to the mention of Ian Holloway on this thread.
Watching NWs team to me is like watching IHs team at times when we got up to the championship. Round pegs in square holes and more hoping something happens rather then make it happen.
Thing is IH after his dismissal I think from Leicester, he went and studied the game for a year. What he did at Blackpool was testament to that. Originally IH set his teams out not to lose, not neccessarly win but not to lose. So many away games where we created nothing. The game starts at 0-0 and youre not losing thinking. Midfielders not to go past the ball stuff, NW 451 etc. At Blackpool he started to attack and defend with good stratetegies and common sense.
Holloway was a motivator and then became a student of the game. Rogers/Lambert both thinkers about the game.
Just dont see that in NW and think it is what we need to attain points in the premier league and establish ourselves.
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Post by maudesfishnchips on Jan 6, 2012 21:57:45 GMT
There's obviously no certain "right" answer. No assurance that if we keep Warnock, we stay up; that if we replace him, we stay up. It's a win, win situation. If we keep Warnock and we go down, then we should have gotten rid of him. If we get rid of Warnock and we go down, then we didn't get the right bloke in. If we get rid of Warnock and they get our chosen manager in and we go down, well, we didn't get rid of Warnock early enough. QPR Supporters - sometimes right, sometimes wrong, but always certain. we keep warnock and go down i will applaud him, where do i fit in there? |
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Post by Macmoish on Jan 6, 2012 21:58:27 GMT
The Charge of The Light Brigade!  |
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Post by fraserinbc on Jan 6, 2012 22:06:04 GMT
you are a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma (but I happen to agree with you). |
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Post by cpr on Jan 6, 2012 22:11:04 GMT
you are a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma (but I happen to agree with you). conundrum fits in there somewhere, shirley! ;D |
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Post by cpr on Jan 6, 2012 22:13:47 GMT
With reference to the mention of Ian Holloway on this thread. Watching NWs team to me is like watching IHs team at times when we got up to the championship. Round pegs in square holes and more hoping something happens rather then make it happen. Thing is IH after his dismissal I think from Leicester, he went and studied the game for a year. What he did at Blackpool was testament to that. Originally IH set his teams out not to lose, not neccessarly win but not to lose. So many away games where we created nothing. The game starts at 0-0 and youre not losing thinking. Midfielders not to go past the ball stuff, NW 451 etc. At Blackpool he started to attack and defend with good stratetegies and common sense. Holloway was a motivator and then became a student of the game. Rogers/Lambert both thinkers about the game. Just dont see that in NW and think it is what we need to attain points in the premier league and establish ourselves. Good post, in all honesty I felt Holloway had run his course with us however the "style" of his demise was nothing short of f**king disgraceful. I think, no, hope, that Fernandes has more substance as a man than the turd that tricked and stabbed Holloway. |
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Post by FloridaR on Jan 6, 2012 22:31:31 GMT
Fact is Warnock is out of his league and cold hard facts show that its going to be a cold hard landing for Tony Fernandes in his 1st year here and a complete waste of time for long suffering QPR fans everywhere.
I just don't understand the mentality of Fans supporting warnock & expressing loyalty for someone that they know who's technique endangers the very existence of QPR playing in the top flight. Heck its not my money but i'd love the prospect of QPR playing in Europe in the next couple of years...don't know about you lot !
Let's face it the premier isn't rocket science - it's shallow, celebrity lives are short and it's all about money and success. Many QPR fans need to adjust quickly and realise its the best man for the job and remember that Tony Fernandes might be the type, so don't be disappointed when he makes a move...
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Post by cpr on Jan 6, 2012 22:35:25 GMT
Fact is Warnock is out of his league and cold hard facts show that its going to be a cold hard landing for Tony Fernandes in his 1st year here and a complete waste of time for long suffering QPR fans everywhere. I just don't understand the mentality of Fans supporting warnock & expressing loyalty for someone that they know who's technique endangers the very existence of QPR playing in the top flight. Heck its not my money but i'd love the prospect of QPR playing in Europe in the next couple of years...don't know about you lot ! Let's face it the premier isn't rocket science - it's shallow, celebrity lives are short and it's all about money and success. Many QPR fans need to adjust quickly and realise its the best man for the job and remember that Tony Fernandes might be the type, so don't be disappointed when he makes a move... Another one of the drivel posts that say much whilst saying effall. Replace him with whom? The question is not rocket science either but the warnockers don't answer it. |
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Post by maudesfishnchips on Jan 6, 2012 22:41:25 GMT
Fact is Warnock is out of his league and cold hard facts show that its going to be a cold hard landing for Tony Fernandes in his 1st year here and a complete waste of time for long suffering QPR fans everywhere. I just don't understand the mentality of Fans supporting warnock & expressing loyalty for someone that they know who's technique endangers the very existence of QPR playing in the top flight. Heck its not my money but i'd love the prospect of QPR playing in Europe in the next couple of years...don't know about you lot ! Let's face it the premier isn't rocket science - it's shallow, celebrity lives are short and it's all about money and success. Many QPR fans need to adjust quickly and realise its the best man for the job and remember that Tony Fernandes might be the type, so don't be disappointed when he makes a move... what you just wrote is everything i hate about other clubs and why i love QPR for not being that. tide is turning i think |
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Post by harlowranger on Jan 6, 2012 22:48:18 GMT
Holloway had Peanuts to keep us up and to do what he did most of those seasons was remarkable and i will never forget him as a good Manager .
By comparison Warnock has had far greater kittys in both Leagues to get the results which he has gone on to achieve!
Cant really compare them unfair too !
And the way he was finally treated was mention above disgusting for a servant of those years!
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Post by Macmoish on Jan 6, 2012 22:49:27 GMT
Certain managers are no brainers to axe: Mick Harford and Gary Waddock being two (even though it was sad to do; and what happened after). And of course we should have axed Wilkins in our Prem season. But others, not at all clear.
And that leaves out matters of loyalty, etc...Or giving manager time.
But I just don't see Warnock as proven failure.
And I certainly don't see out there, a proven success
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Post by FloridaR on Jan 7, 2012 1:34:30 GMT
Fact is Warnock is out of his league and cold hard facts show that its going to be a cold hard landing for Tony Fernandes in his 1st year here and a complete waste of time for long suffering QPR fans everywhere. I just don't understand the mentality of Fans supporting warnock & expressing loyalty for someone that they know who's technique endangers the very existence of QPR playing in the top flight. Heck its not my money but i'd love the prospect of QPR playing in Europe in the next couple of years...don't know about you lot ! Let's face it the premier isn't rocket science - it's shallow, celebrity lives are short and it's all about money and success. Many QPR fans need to adjust quickly and realise its the best man for the job and remember that Tony Fernandes might be the type, so don't be disappointed when he makes a move... what you just wrote is everything i hate about other clubs and why i love QPR for not being that. tide is turning i think Sounds faceless doesn't it ! But this might be the lifestyle that the new owner wants at QPR....I'll absorb the glamour when it comes : ) |
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Post by FloridaR on Jan 7, 2012 1:49:39 GMT
Fact is Warnock is out of his league and cold hard facts show that its going to be a cold hard landing for Tony Fernandes in his 1st year here and a complete waste of time for long suffering QPR fans everywhere. I just don't understand the mentality of Fans supporting warnock & expressing loyalty for someone that they know who's technique endangers the very existence of QPR playing in the top flight. Heck its not my money but i'd love the prospect of QPR playing in Europe in the next couple of years...don't know about you lot ! Let's face it the premier isn't rocket science - it's shallow, celebrity lives are short and it's all about money and success. Many QPR fans need to adjust quickly and realise its the best man for the job and remember that Tony Fernandes might be the type, so don't be disappointed when he makes a move... Another one of the drivel posts that say much whilst saying effall. Replace him with whom? The question is not rocket science either but the warnockers don't answer it. whatever. |
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Post by RoryTheRanger on Jan 7, 2012 1:54:49 GMT
Another one of the drivel posts that say much whilst saying effall. Replace him with whom? The question is not rocket science either but the warnockers don't answer it. whatever. He has a very very good point, none of the warnockers can name a better replacement. |
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Post by londonranger on Jan 7, 2012 2:01:05 GMT
I do happen to agree 100% with Floridar, and although I promised not to get into this again, I dont
think its necessary nasty up peoples opinions..CPR is my brother and I love him but I rarely agree with
him, although Ill have to say its his prediction that we will stay up is all that I am banking on. He was also convinced that we would win the FA Paladini case,
Still lets not go overboard, cutting off votes, not leaving poll on long enough nor giving a time when it will be on till
Then, we are slowly but sureley approaching some other boards who have restricted opinions that go against the approaching party line which this is developing into. That revolved around Paladini worship
or its alternate Paladini worship deemed idolatry and those insulted, villified and finally denied membership
Warnock as our Saviour is a bit rich, and has a quasi religious quality. If this is the way he is seen, lets
have respect and decency without indecency. We all love and respect each other and have differring
viewss, there is no right view. Just different ones. There is no right religion, just different ones. There
is no right sexuality, just different ones, there is no better governing party just different ones.
Except Margaret Thatcher who knew the difference between right and wrong.
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Post by FloridaR on Jan 7, 2012 2:15:31 GMT
london. I think we are all straight talkers around here ...
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Post by kewgreen on Jan 7, 2012 9:48:17 GMT
By the end of January I would imagine we'll have a more definitive answer to our problem, and opinions will have shifted, perhaps even by todays final whistle, it's anyones guess.
Me, I'm sitting on the fence till he end of he mointh.
It's easy right now to enter into a long diatribe on who's right or wrong, events will tell us.
I crave for us to succeed and I hope whoever is in the hotseat will pull us through; but I still firmly believe that if we can hang in there this season, in five years from now we will be a major force.
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Post by Macmoish on Jan 6, 2013 8:25:43 GMT
Bump a year...
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Post by Macmoish on Jan 4, 2017 9:38:59 GMT
Flashback 5 Years Meanwhile 5 Years ago - a series of Tweets from Tony Fernandes Vital QPR www.qpr.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=268138#ixzz4UmlDwSUi Fernandes Makes QPR Vow QUEENS Park Rangers chairman Tony Fernandes has vowed to step down if he cannot make the club a success. In an interesting series of comments on his twitter account @tonyfernandes, the QPR chairman has stated that he will be the first to step down if he cannot deliver in his role. The comments have sparked suggestions that Neil Warnock's role as manager may not be as sterdy as previously purported. 'It's important to note no one job is safe,' he said. 'Results are key. If I don't deliver I would be the first to step down as chairman. 'We owe it to all the fans. Good money is paid and results are key. 'I will leave no stone unturned to make QPR a success, but if I fail I have to go. I will give it 150 percent effort.' The comments have not gone unnoticed by the QPR supporters who had some fears allayed regarding the January transfer budget with the Daily Mail putting out a farcical story regarding the R's chairman putting a halt on spending. He continued: 'Guys at QPR. There is no freeze of cash. 'Don't listen to ambiguous press reports. We are disappointed where we are in the league. 'This is a journey not a sprint. Along the way we learn. But we continue to develop and along the way hard decisions need to be made. But we never stop moving. Never.' The R's chairman is undoubtedly passionate about the journey he hopes to take QPR along, but this latest statement has created a little confusion surrounding his and Neil Warnock's tenure. |
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