11 Year Flashback: QPR Axe Sousa's Coach Oliveira

[QPR Report]

[11 Years ago: ...QPR Fans were trying to understand what this action meant]


QPR Official Site - OLIVEIRA DEPARTS

Queens Park Rangers Football Club can confirm Bruno Oliveira has had his contract terminated with immediate effect.
Bruno joined the Club in November 2008 as part of Paulo Sousa's backroom staff.
The Club will be making no further comment at this stage.
www.qpr.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10373~1614686,00.html

And what was said when he was hired

QPR Official Site - November 2008 - EXCLUSIVE: OLIVEIRA JOINS STAFF

- The Club are pleased to announce that Bruno Oliveira has joined Paulo Sousa's backroom staff.
- The 30 year-old (pictured, right) has been named as Assistant Coach, complimenting Gareth Ainsworth and David Rouse, who have retained their positions under the new structure.
- John Harbin will also continue in his role as Performance Manager, but, as revealed earlier today (Thursday), Tim Flowers has left the Club with immediate effect.
- Sousa told http://www.qpr.co.uk: "Bruno has great knowledge of the game and we have both been working towards this moment for a number of years.
- "He is a great student of the game, has some fantastic, unique ideas and will be a valuable addition to the impressive team we have in place." >

[andyg199]

I wonder what could possibly be coming next...

[QPR Report]

From the club that gave you "Gardening Leave" for Holloway, Penrice and Breaker...

[QPR Report]

And the Staff Directory updated to remove him - even though Steve Brown remains listed
www.qpr.co.uk/page/StaffDirectory/0,,10373,00.html

[scottjones]

heard a rumour that steve is back on the scene last week??? god knows

[QPR Report]

Anyone familiar with The New York Yankees Boss, George Steinbrenner who hired and fired; hired and fired; rehired and fired coaches?

[scottjones]

Apr 6, 2009 14:04:18 GMT QPR Report said:

Anyone familiar with The New York Yankees Boss, George Steinbrenner who hired and fired; hired and fired; rehired and fired coaches?

funnily enough, no ;D

[QPR Report]

See Profile (if interested)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Steinbrenner

One of his managers, Billy Martin (who was hired and fired 4 or 5 times by Steibrenner) said of his boss, Steinbrenner, who has been convicted of a criminal offense and then received a Presidential pardon and of another player: "One's a born liar and the other's convicted."

[sandyhoops]

Guess commonsense and patience are two words that our current Board seem to understand - surely they have those words in Italian?

I think that all the little pieces add up to a very worrying state of affairs.

This is not a "bash-the-Board" or "bash-Flav" moan - but, seriously, how can we hope to move forward (which we have done - we've already got more points than we ended up with last season, haven't we? & we haven't been relegation-threatened at all this season - so that's a start!!)

If PS goes before the end of his natural contract - i.e. now - we will be looking for our 7th manager in less than 2 years. And THAT ain't good - and certainly doesn't make for stability or continuity going from season-to-season.

Look at how many seasons it took Sir Alex Ferguson to get things rolling at Manchester United - let alone, closer to home, Mick McCarthy.

PATIENCE people on the Board, please - P A T I E N C E!!

[QPR Report]

What a poster on dot.org, adamqpr (who's "reputation" for accuracy I have no idea about) ASSERTS what Paladini said at Saturday's match
www.qprdot.org/viewtopic.php?t=35866&start=30

[Just to note that no one else has reported Paladini as saying this)

[QPR Report]

Meanwhile Pete on WATRB thinks we're drawing the wrong conclusions re the departure
LINK TO WATRB
www.wearetherangersboys.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5889&page=3

[sandyhoops]

Someone told me Paladini had said something similar to fans a few months ago, when referring to whether or not we'd be going for a striker in January - it went something like "what's the f**in point, he only plays one f**in striker up front anyway"

So - actually - I could believe that comment from Paladini on Saturday

But it seems clear there is a power struggle going on at LR right now - and Sousa, unfortunately, imo, is going to lose.

:-(

[sandyhoops]

Apologies, by the way, if I've offended in my post on Paladini - I'll understand if it's edited! I was just responding to the poston dot.org as mentioned above!

[londonranger]

Excellent shout Sandy. But isnt it interesting that we may be higher in league and not threatened but More goals and a better overall point per game ratio were achieved under Dowie.He left with us in 6th place tie. Defensiveley we have tightened. It says that patience is a virtue. But with the constant chopping and changing and not scoring patience can wear you down. The fans at the games are showing exactly what is showing up on this board. yelling for Blackstock etc...Yes we are not threatened with the drop but somehow that was more exciting than this year. Also if there is no stabilization and acquistion over summer of quality we could be threatened with the drop again. If that happen my patience will be thinner than thin!

[QPR Report]

No I think your post is ok Quoting what someone (allegedly) said is different to being abusive to someone.

After all if the Independent can quote Ian Holloway saying Paladini said: "And Gianni was going: 'You F***ing bastard I am going to kill you. I am going to kill you, you F***ing bastard... where are you, you F***ing... F***ing hell where are you.'" why shouldn't you

www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/ian-holloway-in-a-league-of-his-own-513941.html

[londonranger]

I think Paladini thinks he is a fan , then he thinks he runs the team. That talk tells you what a shambles we are.

[sandyhoops]

Clearly Paladini is fluent in all aspects of the English language!!

(But thanks for the reassurance - I dont want to get kicked off this site ;-) )

[sandyhoops]

Apr 6, 2009 14:52:18 GMT londonranger said:

I think Paladini thinks he is a fan , then he thinks he runs the team. That talk tells you what a shambles we are.

Remember that he didn't sit with the Directors a few weeks ago when we played Blackpool that wet, windy night - but was out in the rain with all of our away fans.

So - yes, he does think he's a fan - but he's not & should act like it!

[ingham]

The 'be patient' viewpoint is an interesting one, because it implies that if we're patient, things will come together as we would like. I'm not critical of patience, I'd like to see more of it, but we need to be a bit clearer about what we mean by patience.

For one thing, it's hard to see how our being patient will make the players better, or the manager more effective. Do they all get better the longer we wait? But we're only waiting because they aren't getting better.

It's very difficult to put patience up against winning. A new manager comes, and people say 'give him time'. But this is misleading. In my view, they're really saying 'give him time to start winning', on the assumption, presumably, that if he's given time, he WILL start winning.

That's why people boo. They've led themselves to believe, or they've been led to believe, that if they allow a little time, they'll get success delivered on a plate. And they're naturally upset when they don't get what they think they've paid for.

We should ask ourselves why we think a manager will suddenly start winning just because we stand by while he goes on losing for longer.

Many, if not all of the successful managers were on their way almost at once. Busby was runner-up in his first season. Shankly took Liverpool up the same season he was allowed to sign the players he wanted. Stein was achieving things from his arrival at Dunfermline for the relegation battle, while Clough worked wonders fast at Derby and Forest, if my memory serves me well. As did Ramsey at Ipswich, although the really astonishing success took a few years more. Jim Gregory had turned QPR round within a year of arriving.

Managers usually get time. Just not very much of it. One defeat, nothing. Two, hmmm. Three. Well, give him time. But three months on, let alone six months, even his admirers have backed off. It's difficult to explain why he keeps on getting it wrong.

But why do we expect him to get it right? He just takes training, signs players. There's nothing about 89 of the managers in the League that says 'winner', and only one of the three who have won the League recently can keep it up.

Look at Holloway. It was obvious that his hero status would last as long as he maintained the improvement dramatically year by year. One dullish season, and he was vulnerable. A poor one, and he was out.

We need something to hold our attention while we work out what we want. While we learn the game. Maybe the learning process is what we need. But nobody wants to learn. They're all 'winners' already.

I'm amazed that footballers not only don't learn, but don't expect to learn. Oh, tactics, yes, but not ball control, passing, shooting. All the things needed to make the tactics actually work.

While the coaches and managers, these insightful geniuses we sack every 3-6 months, are never expected to teach them. Hence poor Bruno, whose "fantastic, unique ideas" weren't, after all, "a valuable addition to the impressive team we have in place".

If they can't teach, and the players can't learn, why do we expect anything at all of them? We can't sign winners, because they wouldn't come here. We aren't run by winners, because they haven't won anything.

Maybe a little more humility, maybe an acknowledgement that they don't know much, and therefore we can't expect much of them, might give us the breathing space to look at ourselves honestly, realistically - and patiently.

And we might learn something.

[Zamoraaaah]

GP wasn't welcome in the directors box at Blackpool. That's why he went in our end. Oh and it looked good in front of the film crew.

Fan my @rse, if he had the clubs best interests at heart instead of his own we wouldn't be witnessing the latest shambolic installment of 'QPR The Joke Club' unfolding now.

[sandyhoops]

Ingham - I understand wot you're saying. But "patience" means that we've got to see the handicaps that have been hindering us this season, which can & will & should be put right in the summer:

pick from the terrible state of our pitch or the high number of injuries to our "top" players or the fact that the new manager did not have a pre-season before being thrown in the deep-end of a league he had never experienced, as a player, let alone a manager, before and which everyone says is important (the pre-season that is!) or the weakness in certain areas of our playing staff

If - after some or all of these are put right - we still do not see (a) decent football and (b) a few more goals leading to (c) a few more wins - then our "patience" will run out and the manager's time will be over.

But how can we ask the man to perform miracles under the current circumstances. And, for your information, Mick McCarthy has taken 4 long years at Wolves to get them to the position they've been in all season this year - and then there is the great Alex Ferguson who took more than a season to get Manchester United up n running and nearly got the order of the boot at the end of his first season! I'm betting the Club are glad they didn't cut him so quickly after all ;-)

[andyg199]

Apr 6, 2009 14:47:30 GMT londonranger said:

Excellent shout Sandy. But isnt it interesting that we may be higher in league and not threatened but More goals and a better overall point per game ratio were achieved under Dowie.He left with us in 6th place tie. Defensiveley we have tightened. It says that patience is a virtue. But with the constant chopping and changing and not scoring patience can wear you down. The fans at the games are showing exactly what is showing up on this board. yelling for Blackstock etc...Yes we are not threatened with the drop but somehow that was more exciting than this year. Also if there is no stabilization and acquistion over summer of quality we could be threatened with the drop again. If that happen my patience will be thinner than thin!

I think the irony of the situation is that Sousa and Dowie both played 4231 and both could claim to have watertight defences. I'm not sure exactly what has been achieved by changing, nor how much better we would have been if we hadn't.

[eusebio13]

Apr 6, 2009 15:20:29 GMT ingham said:

The 'be patient' viewpoint is an interesting one, because it implies that if we're patient, things will come together as we would like. I'm not critical of patience, I'd like to see more of it, but we need to be a bit clearer about what we mean by patience.

For one thing, it's hard to see how our being patient will make the players better, or the manager more effective. Do they all get better the longer we wait? But we're only waiting because they aren't getting better.

It's very difficult to put patience up against winning. A new manager comes, and people say 'give him time'. But this is misleading. In my view, they're really saying 'give him time to start winning', on the assumption, presumably, that if he's given time, he WILL start winning.

That's why people boo. They've led themselves to believe, or they've been led to believe, that if they allow a little time, they'll get success delivered on a plate. And they're naturally upset when they don't get what they think they've paid for.

We should ask ourselves why we think a manager will suddenly start winning just because we stand by while he goes on losing for longer.

Many, if not all of the successful managers were on their way almost at once. Busby was runner-up in his first season. Shankly took Liverpool up the same season he was allowed to sign the players he wanted. Stein was achieving things from his arrival at Dunfermline for the relegation battle, while Clough worked wonders fast at Derby and Forest, if my memory serves me well. As did Ramsey at Ipswich, although the really astonishing success took a few years more. Jim Gregory had turned QPR round within a year of arriving.

Managers usually get time. Just not very much of it. One defeat, nothing. Two, hmmm. Three. Well, give him time. But three months on, let alone six months, even his admirers have backed off. It's difficult to explain why he keeps on getting it wrong.

But why do we expect him to get it right? He just takes training, signs players. There's nothing about 89 of the managers in the League that says 'winner', and only one of the three who have won the League recently can keep it up.

Look at Holloway. It was obvious that his hero status would last as long as he maintained the improvement dramatically year by year. One dullish season, and he was vulnerable. A poor one, and he was out.

We need something to hold our attention while we work out what we want. While we learn the game. Maybe the learning process is what we need. But nobody wants to learn. They're all 'winners' already.

I'm amazed that footballers not only don't learn, but don't expect to learn. Oh, tactics, yes, but not ball control, passing, shooting. All the things needed to make the tactics actually work.

While the coaches and managers, these insightful geniuses we sack every 3-6 months, are never expected to teach them. Hence poor Bruno, whose "fantastic, unique ideas" weren't, after all, "a valuable addition to the impressive team we have in place".

If they can't teach, and the players can't learn, why do we expect anything at all of them? We can't sign winners, because they wouldn't come here. We aren't run by winners, because they haven't won anything.

Maybe a little more humility, maybe an acknowledgement that they don't know much, and therefore we can't expect much of them, might give us the breathing space to look at ourselves honestly, realistically - and patiently.

And we might learn something.

Extremely thoughtful piece Ingham and perhaps you are right, it can be hard to teach football dogs new tricks but surely someone like Ferdinand show that inherent talent needs occasionally to be unlocked or the Keegans or Beckhams who have turned limited talent into much much more through relentless application or the plethora of players once discarded by clubs who go on to developed their talent.

You then need to consider that if patience is over rated then consider that most managers will inevitably fail but those that have some success must have some recurring themes and I think time is one of them. The classic example is Ferguson who had several seasons without any real success at Man U, but also look at Rafa Benetiz, he was appointed manager of Real Valladolid for the 1995–96 season but was sacked after only two wins in 23 games with the club bottom of the Primera División, so was he a crap manager or was he still learning? Wenger's first senior job was at Nancy, which he joined in 1984, but he enjoyed little success there and in his final season in charge, Nancy finished 19th and were relegated to the second tier of French football. These guys alone make up the three most successful managers in British football and they all had failure in their careers. Even Mourinho who is now considered the wonderkid of management was fired by Benfica after 9 games.

Patience IMO is critical to success but of course no guarantee of it. In Sousa I believe we have a talented individual with some integrity and a clear view of how we should play and he is willing to stick to this while suffering criticism. That focussed or stubborn approach seems to replicate some of the behaviours I see from the likes of Ferguson/Wenger/Benetiz et al and to me establishes the reasons why I believe he should be retained (football is no place for supplicants or committees).

IN SOUSA WE TRUST

[andyg199]

Apr 6, 2009 18:15:19 GMT eusebio13 said:

Apr 6, 2009 15:20:29 GMT ingham said:

The 'be patient' viewpoint is an interesting one, because it implies that if we're patient, things will come together as we would like. I'm not critical of patience, I'd like to see more of it, but we need to be a bit clearer about what we mean by patience.

For one thing, it's hard to see how our being patient will make the players better, or the manager more effective. Do they all get better the longer we wait? But we're only waiting because they aren't getting better.

It's very difficult to put patience up against winning. A new manager comes, and people say 'give him time'. But this is misleading. In my view, they're really saying 'give him time to start winning', on the assumption, presumably, that if he's given time, he WILL start winning.

That's why people boo. They've led themselves to believe, or they've been led to believe, that if they allow a little time, they'll get success delivered on a plate. And they're naturally upset when they don't get what they think they've paid for.

We should ask ourselves why we think a manager will suddenly start winning just because we stand by while he goes on losing for longer.

Many, if not all of the successful managers were on their way almost at once. Busby was runner-up in his first season. Shankly took Liverpool up the same season he was allowed to sign the players he wanted. Stein was achieving things from his arrival at Dunfermline for the relegation battle, while Clough worked wonders fast at Derby and Forest, if my memory serves me well. As did Ramsey at Ipswich, although the really astonishing success took a few years more. Jim Gregory had turned QPR round within a year of arriving.

Managers usually get time. Just not very much of it. One defeat, nothing. Two, hmmm. Three. Well, give him time. But three months on, let alone six months, even his admirers have backed off. It's difficult to explain why he keeps on getting it wrong.

But why do we expect him to get it right? He just takes training, signs players. There's nothing about 89 of the managers in the League that says 'winner', and only one of the three who have won the League recently can keep it up.

Look at Holloway. It was obvious that his hero status would last as long as he maintained the improvement dramatically year by year. One dullish season, and he was vulnerable. A poor one, and he was out.

We need something to hold our attention while we work out what we want. While we learn the game. Maybe the learning process is what we need. But nobody wants to learn. They're all 'winners' already.

I'm amazed that footballers not only don't learn, but don't expect to learn. Oh, tactics, yes, but not ball control, passing, shooting. All the things needed to make the tactics actually work.

While the coaches and managers, these insightful geniuses we sack every 3-6 months, are never expected to teach them. Hence poor Bruno, whose "fantastic, unique ideas" weren't, after all, "a valuable addition to the impressive team we have in place".

If they can't teach, and the players can't learn, why do we expect anything at all of them? We can't sign winners, because they wouldn't come here. We aren't run by winners, because they haven't won anything.

Maybe a little more humility, maybe an acknowledgement that they don't know much, and therefore we can't expect much of them, might give us the breathing space to look at ourselves honestly, realistically - and patiently.

And we might learn something.

Extremely thoughtful piece Ingham and perhaps you are right, it can be hard to teach football dogs new tricks but surely someone like Ferdinand show that inherent talent needs occasionally to be unlocked or the Keegans or Beckhams who have turned limited talent into much much more through relentless application or the plethora of players once discarded by clubs who go on to developed their talent.

You then need to consider that if patience is over rated then consider that most managers will inevitably fail but those that have some success must have some recurring themes and I think time is one of them. The classic example is Ferguson who had several seasons without any real success at Man U, but also look at Rafa Benetiz, he was appointed manager of Real Valladolid for the 1995–96 season but was sacked after only two wins in 23 games with the club bottom of the Primera División, so was he a crap manager or was he still learning? Wenger's first senior job was at Nancy, which he joined in 1984, but he enjoyed little success there and in his final season in charge, Nancy finished 19th and were relegated to the second tier of French football. These guys alone make up the three most successful managers in British football and they all had failure in their careers. Even Mourinho who is now considered the wonderkid of management was fired by Benfica after 9 games.

Patience IMO is critical to success but of course no guarantee of it. In Sousa I believe we have a talented individual with some integrity and a clear view of how we should play and he is willing to stick to this while suffering criticism. That focussed or stubborn approach seems to replicate some of the behaviours I see from the likes of Ferguson/Wenger/Benetiz et al and to me establishes the reasons why I believe he should be retain (football is no place for supplicants or committees).

IN SOUSA WE TRUST

Sousa has a clear idea of how his team should play, but he is inevitably going to be replaced by yet another identikit idiot who will play 4-4-2, tell the "lads" to "hit the channels", work hard on set pieces, aim for the big man and get back to basics. But we won't have the best squad, so the best squad doing the aforementioned crude boll*cks will win the league. See Wolves and Birmingham for examples.

[Zamoraaaah]

IN SOUSA WE TRUST

[Markqpr]

In Sousa we trust.

[londonranger]

If mark likes him so do I. in sousa we trust.

[londonranger]

I also thought Mr. Inghams piece was terriffic. dont expect much. However its hard to keep going to games or reading about a team that doesnt do much.

[scarletpimple]

The future is Sousa.

[londonranger]

The asst coach goes. thats interpreted as confidence in Sosa. I cant comprehend this, Anyone help me out?. Now why doesnt it mean that Sousa doesnt need an assistant,or he wanted to go, or sousa wanted to go but they said Stay till end of year, and he said then get rid of Oliveira and Ill stay, or it was a salary trimdown, or sousa wants a different assistant or they want a different assistant, or he said something naughty to Palindrome or he fired him for taking off Tarabat (was he on bench when Sou in stands.. Whatever. I cant be convinced that this indicates confidence in Sousa.