|
Post by RoryTheRanger on Oct 2, 2011 15:51:17 GMT
We weren't moaning about Warnock when we lost 4-1 to Sc**thorpe last season which is probably worse than this match.
|
|
pelboy
Gerry Francis
Posts: 60
|
Post by pelboy on Oct 2, 2011 15:52:05 GMT
7 would be killer, Not our day.......SUMO, "Shut up, Move On" I do think we need to start with Campbell at some stage.
|
|
pelboy
Gerry Francis
Posts: 60
|
Post by pelboy on Oct 2, 2011 15:53:30 GMT
Ah, many Fulham fans at your workplace?
|
|
|
Post by charqpr on Oct 2, 2011 15:54:26 GMT
at laest we got 2 weeks to get it right, but if we come back and lose to blackburn at home alarm bells start to ring with big teams coming up and dreading that next game its a must win kind of game, ik now its early for that but this is the prem league
|
|
|
Post by hitman34 on Oct 2, 2011 15:59:15 GMT
agrred about one thing. "three points gone but now its time to move on to the next match"
its time for everyone to smell the coffee.
from the players to the manager. things need to change. from starting 11 to the tactics. drop twitter joey in place of mackie. swp wide right and effing stay wide right. tarrabt left free roll, derry and buzz centre.
our problems today was not caused by the defence or keeper it was caused by our FIVE man midfiled who did not exist.
im not shouting of warnocks head, im shouting for a change of system and bold moves from the manager. if there is no chance by jan, then i will be shouting for his head.
|
|
|
Post by gramps on Oct 2, 2011 16:00:37 GMT
Sorry Bothroyd, you've had a good chance to show what you can do but have come up with absolutely nothing. He just does not look the part for me. We so desperately need a striker and our defence was so often wide open today.
No, let's not talk about Neil going. Give the guy a chance. Let's face it, most of us with a grain of common sense know that it was always going to be difficult and I have said all the way through that I can't see Rangers staying up. I have seen nothing to make me change my mind.
Whatever, this is one defeat. I have been a Rangers supporter for a long lifetime and seen them in much worse situations.
I am still a Rangers supporter and will be until the day I die, come what may.
|
|
|
Post by gibraltar on Oct 2, 2011 16:01:24 GMT
i do agree though that blackburn at home is a must win... surely...?!?!?
|
|
|
Post by RoryTheRanger on Oct 2, 2011 16:05:47 GMT
Sorry Bothroyd, you've had a good chance to show what you can do but have come up with absolutely nothing. He just does not look the part for me. We so desperately need a striker and our defence was so often wide open today. No, let's not talk about Neil going. Give the guy a chance. Let's face it, most of us with a grain of common sense know that it was always going to be difficult and I have said all the way through that I can't see Rangers staying up. I have seen nothing to make me change my mind. Whatever, this is one defeat. I have been a Rangers supporter for a long lifetime and seen them in much worse situations. I am still a Rangers supporter and will be until the day I die, come what may. Well said Gramps.
|
|
|
Post by CookesPie&Mash on Oct 2, 2011 16:07:15 GMT
4 4 2 all day long for me , you have to be a plank to say keep the same system it does not work fact
|
|
tom007
Dave Sexton
Posts: 1,612
|
Post by tom007 on Oct 2, 2011 16:09:35 GMT
questions definately need to be asked.
lets face it we were laughing at arsenal the other week and if i hear 1 more player say yes but we aint been together long i will shout.
neither have arsenals but it did not stop all and sundry shout for wenger,s head and say he dont know what he is doing.
the fact is after the money spent you do not expect to see your biggest hiding for god knows how long.
as mentioned in january if it is same tactics then i would ask can the manager cut it in the top league. he now has the players but can he find the know how and tactics to work with them or continuously praise them instead of get the best out of them.
the divisions are miles apart despite what a lot say and what is popssible in the championship is not so in the premiere league.
|
|
|
Post by Lonegunmen on Oct 2, 2011 16:15:32 GMT
Might have to write this off as just one of those days. Doesn't help our goal difference. But shit happens.
|
|
harbo
Neil Warnock
YOU R'S!!!!!
Posts: 529
|
Post by harbo on Oct 2, 2011 16:16:59 GMT
Right guys it's time for a bit of perspective. Today was not a good day. It was embarrassing to watch, painful even. Every single player from front to back played poorly. However, it was just one game. Yes, I know it was Fulham and that we have been waiting for this game for years, but it's just one bad performance. The last 3 games (villa, wolves, newcastle) we have played very well and accumulated 5 points. Today we lost and took a spanking by a well established premier league team. If we manage to play well every 3 games, amass 5 points score 4 goals and then take a spanking in the 4th then we will survive. I think we are all, myself included, guilty of getting a little carried away dreaming and thinking that a mid table finish was becoming a reality. As Amit Bhatia said on the podcast during the week, if he was offered 17th now he would take it. We are playing in the toughest most competitive league in the world, we just had a bad day just like Wolves had a bad day losing 3-0 to us, or like Liverpool did losing 4-0 to Spurs or even like United did drawing to Stoke last week, the most important thing is now the reaction of the players. We want to be here, but part of us establishing ourselves here is how we respond to days like today. We aren't going to play this poorly week in week out as we have shown in the previous 3 performances. What we need to do is to continue to get behind the boys and let them focus on winning the next game. Don't forget Fulham came back from 2-0 down to draw with Man City. They are a good side, and today we were awful. Jay Bothroyd like the rest of them was terrible today, and unfortunately the longer his barren spell continues the more he will suffer from his crisis of confidence. However, we have 3-4 hungry strikers on the bench that will no doubt replace Jay if he continues with displays like today. When his is dropped is not up to us but up to Neil. Finally, just like after we lost 4-1 to Sc**thorpe last season or lost to 2-0 to Milwall last season or lost 4-0 to Bolton this season, I continue to say what we all should........In Warnock We Trust. You R's!!!!!
|
|
|
Post by zizoustainrod on Oct 2, 2011 16:29:49 GMT
That was pretty bad (alright - abysmal!). It was almost a blessing when the livestream cr#pped out on me. From what I have seen of us previously I don't think we have played too badly. We have generally competed well, showed invention and created chances (today we did none of these things). However our conversion rate for goals is terrible and of greatest concern is that we haven't played any of the top sides yet. We need points off the Boltons, Wigans, Newcastles, Fulhams etc. I agree on the Bothroyd front - time for a change. On the Warnock front, you can always tell the fly-by nighter "fans". They're the ones calling for the manager's head after a lousy result. They don't think about past history or what the club's long term goals are for this season. To those people - Be careful what you wish for or you might really have something to complain about.
|
|
|
Post by londonranger on Oct 2, 2011 16:33:35 GMT
Well Ive been around this team for a long time, including the year we went up and down to first.
They also will build you up if you let them, but they never fail in letting you down with a thud.
This disorganisation will not stay up either. Just to add as I lost interest, so did Trabaant who stopped
playing, like the E. German car stopped running which I use for his nickname.
|
|
|
Post by gramps on Oct 2, 2011 16:40:49 GMT
Hmmm, I wonder if Arseole Whiner is thinking twice about Taarabt now.
|
|
|
Post by jayrigg on Oct 2, 2011 16:50:38 GMT
Definately a bad day at the office , start again in a fortnight.
However i must say i think your right about the tactics, Jay is upfront by himself with no one to hold the ball up to,maybe start with Campbell and Bothroyd together in a fortnight.
In Warnock we trust!!
cheers,
Jay.
|
|
|
Post by Macmoish on Oct 2, 2011 16:50:44 GMT
Well I think Barton is not going to be dropped...
Probably everyone on the team is lucky we're not playing next Saturday...Warnock is less likely to drop people if this gap, I'd say...Except Campbell, if he's actually healthy, starting in place of Bothroyd...and maybe Taarabt on the bench... and of course, Traore returns...
|
|
|
Post by Macmoish on Oct 2, 2011 16:52:36 GMT
Oh...and of course (for me) Warnock's job should be secure...
I never felt he was the greatest Premiership manager around....But for what we are. And where we are, I'd say absolutely he belongs running this club.
|
|
|
Post by jayrigg on Oct 2, 2011 16:54:40 GMT
Couldn't have put it better myself Mac!!
cheers,
Jay.
|
|
|
Post by harlowranger on Oct 2, 2011 17:07:55 GMT
Well I think Barton is not going to be dropped... Probably everyone on the team is lucky we're not playing next Saturday...Warnock is less likely to drop people if this gap, I'd say...Except Campbell, if he's actually healthy, starting in place of Bothroyd...and maybe Taarabt on the bench... and of course, Traore returns... would assume Gabbidon returns aswell.
|
|
|
Post by greeksuperhoop on Oct 2, 2011 17:50:24 GMT
what ive noticed is we try the stoke direct long ball tactics with jay up front and it never works (evident today and when we were 4 down and in desperation against bolton). when dj is on or in the first 30 mins of all our games we play on the floor and look hotter than barca. today we conceded one and started with the long balls. that just frustrates everyone even more and never works and the pentration from the flanks was just not there today. WE NEED TO PLAY ON THE FLOOR. the little triangles set up by faurlin wernt there today. watch the first 30 mins of this game and the first 30 mins of wolves and we are a totally different side. we need to continue to play on the floor regardles if we are behind. we cant change to direct long balls in the first 10 mins becuase for one, it doesnt work, and 2 it just frustrates everyone. if we play one striker, direct balls wont work because well be closed down and frustrated just like otday and forced to shoot outside the box. we need to disect teams as we did to wolves. fulham knew that from the bolton game and put the early goal in to make us panic. we buckled like bitches basically and need to play on floor with fluency no matter what otherwise its a one way ball forward to no one and 6 goals conceded.
that was my little rant...
|
|
|
Post by nomar on Oct 2, 2011 18:02:15 GMT
No one is talking about Neil out.
But Bothroyd is a liability right now but at least if we must play him til Jan when we can get a new striker then give him Campbell to help him.
Taarabt needs the hair dryer treatment. I know he can do the business at this level but he needs to start taking the game to the opposition and getting into the box.
No one seems to want to take responsibility to shoot. Very frustrating.
|
|
|
Post by Bushman on Oct 2, 2011 18:20:13 GMT
This was truly a shite performance and whether we like it or not there will be more days like today. Put me off going for a beer after I left the ground.
|
|
ingham
Dave Sexton
Posts: 1,896
|
Post by ingham on Oct 2, 2011 18:21:18 GMT
Interesting - and a remarkably good-tempered discussion considering.
It was the ref last time out, and the manager this time.
I tend to think that the buck stops with the players. When a ref gives a last minute decision that costs a team a game by the odd goal, the issue seems to be the ref's mistake. The players can fail to score for 90 minutes, but the ref blew it.
The same where the manager is 'to blame'. If he has a really bad run - not just a few games - his time at the Club is probably at an end. Few of the players who've performed abysmally will defend him and say, no way, we were utter rubbish.
Especially not when they're negotiating the £60,000 A WEEK. £60,000 whether he plays well or not. And for 3 or 4 years. Few players play all that well all that often. Year in, year out, they are a financial loss to the Club.
So I feel a little sorry for managers. Not that much nowadays. They line their pockets while the Clubs pile up massive losses indulging their dubious reputations as wonder-workers. But I do laugh at the notion that it is the manager's job to devise a system of play to cover up the almost limitless failings of the people on the pitch.
Of course they win sometimes. But that is because the bunch of overpaid clowns on the other side are even worse.
And I do feel that what they are paid is relevant. If they can't be expected to play all that well all the time , don't PAY THEM SO MUCH. If the buck stops with the manager, let the money stop with him as well, then he will deserve the stick if we lose.
By all means pay the players if they deliver. Not the odd win, but long term, profitable success. Profitable? Them? They talk big about football being a business, and they're happy to rake the money in even when their performances are laughable.
No team is as bad as its worst performance, otherwise it wouldn't be its worst performance. And no team is as good as its best. But that tends to funnel all but the most successful Clubs into the limited middle ground of mediocrity. That's OK if they are realistic, and understand their limitations, but investors are anxious to make money on their shares, so the Clubs are subjected to the exaggerations, distortions, and plain lies we're used to in commercial advertising. But whereas we have no vested interest in whether a vacuum cleaner is quality or not, it is tempting to believe that the Rs are better than they seem.
A small football club simply can't deliver on the promises this entails without a very, very large dose of footballing genius, at the very least, and in the Premier League, there doesn't seem to be much scope for the true geniuses who once lifted smaller Clubs up to compete with the best.
As a result, the gap between reality and expectation creates uncertainties which can be crippling. Gambling vast sums of the Club's money on players who lose 6-0 to a side next to bottom is dangerous. Not for any of them, but for the Club.
We all know that Clubs have freak results, steady themselves and go on to outperform their tormentors (QPR 1-6 Brentford in the opening game in 1966 will spring to mind for the more perennially youthful of our support. We almost won promotion that year, they went down).
But steadying ourselves and putting on a decent show in mid-table won't recover tens of millions lost. And it is difficult for a manager to know why the team is doing well or badly because it depends so much on what all the other Clubs are doing, and, by definition, we have very little knowledge or control over that.
It isn't a bad idea to bring unpredictable players down to earth. Paying them big money when big performances aren't always forthcoming is a fool's paradise. Unfortunately, there is little appetite - and maybe little scope - to deal with that, as there are so many fools in boardrooms at the moment. They are smart with their own finances, but indifferent to the losses they inflict on the Clubs.
We can spend more than we earn, in an effort to haul ourselves up by our bootstraps. But is there the talent around to justify it?
Me, I'd never call for a manager to be sacked. If we can't expect the players to deliver on this kind of money, the manager is in the cleft stick of sticking with them, and attempting to gloss over their shortcomings, or paying more for someone else and screwing the Club even more financially.
Excellent thread.
|
|
|
Post by eusebio13 on Oct 2, 2011 18:27:06 GMT
is it now time to question warnock's tacticial ability at premiership level? also would like to question the 60 - 80 thousand pound aweek "superstars" that we have at the club. barton all mouth and no game? wright philips all pace and no control or crossing? bothroyd all heading but no heart? warnock all free roll but no structer or balance in the team? what do you guys think?
|
|
|
Post by 0hwestlondon on Oct 2, 2011 19:45:40 GMT
i remember a good few tonkings we have had, and of course vauxhall motors, i dont remember switching on the news to see pictures of loftus road crashing and burning to the ground after these results, and i dont expect to after this result.
nw and the players are pro"s, and all professionals no matter what there work have bad days, the difference being if a heart surgeon has a bad day the result can cost someone there life, we lost a football match, no matter how unacceptable the performence we have time to rectify it, so lets put things into perspective, one swallow dont make a summer, and one terrible defeat dont mean relegation.
|
|
|
Post by Macmoish on Oct 2, 2011 19:49:31 GMT
And bottom, bottom line: Even IF G-d forbid we're relegated - especially with Fernandes and BHATIA, it's not the end of the world: And it's just a blip in Mighty QPR's history.
|
|
|
Post by gibraltar on Oct 2, 2011 20:02:34 GMT
i honestly don't think amitone will be as blasé about it (relegation) as they make out.
it's a tough feat to get back to the promised land.
|
|
|
Post by maudesfishnchips on Oct 2, 2011 20:16:26 GMT
jay wants to walk the ball in the goal, and spend most of the time on his arse.
long balls to swp to head is nonsense, he needs it on his toes.
crossing was terrible, one good cross and jay 'shoulders' it over the bar
faurlin was a huffing and puffing
derry was tired with the heat
hall is a joke
orr is a little lost boy
young can not play on the left, so this dismisses all belief that he can.
barton wanders to much, how many free roles can we dish out?
taarabt was our best player. he worked too.
ferdinand must of been ok because i can't remember shouting at him.
kenny can only do so much ,but he had a shocker.
campbell shoots when he sniffs the goal, he must start next game.
smith tried, but not good enough
mackie, we need him back starting with campbell in 4-4-2, he was the good thing to come out of today.
|
|
|
Post by hitman34 on Oct 2, 2011 20:18:10 GMT
Interesting - and a remarkably good-tempered discussion considering. It was the ref last time out, and the manager this time. I tend to think that the buck stops with the players. When a ref gives a last minute decision that costs a team a game by the odd goal, the issue seems to be the ref's mistake. The players can fail to score for 90 minutes, but the ref blew it. The same where the manager is 'to blame'. If he has a really bad run - not just a few games - his time at the Club is probably at an end. Few of the players who've performed abysmally will defend him and say, no way, we were utter rubbish. Especially not when they're negotiating the £60,000 A WEEK. £60,000 whether he plays well or not. And for 3 or 4 years. Few players play all that well all that often. Year in, year out, they are a financial loss to the Club. So I feel a little sorry for managers. Not that much nowadays. They line their pockets while the Clubs pile up massive losses indulging their dubious reputations as wonder-workers. But I do laugh at the notion that it is the manager's job to devise a system of play to cover up the almost limitless failings of the people on the pitch. Of course they win sometimes. But that is because the bunch of overpaid clowns on the other side are even worse. And I do feel that what they are paid is relevant. If they can't be expected to play all that well all the time , don't PAY THEM SO MUCH. If the buck stops with the manager, let the money stop with him as well, then he will deserve the stick if we lose. By all means pay the players if they deliver. Not the odd win, but long term, profitable success. Profitable? Them? They talk big about football being a business, and they're happy to rake the money in even when their performances are laughable. No team is as bad as its worst performance, otherwise it wouldn't be its worst performance. And no team is as good as its best. But that tends to funnel all but the most successful Clubs into the limited middle ground of mediocrity. That's OK if they are realistic, and understand their limitations, but investors are anxious to make money on their shares, so the Clubs are subjected to the exaggerations, distortions, and plain lies we're used to in commercial advertising. But whereas we have no vested interest in whether a vacuum cleaner is quality or not, it is tempting to believe that the Rs are better than they seem. A small football club simply can't deliver on the promises this entails without a very, very large dose of footballing genius, at the very least, and in the Premier League, there doesn't seem to be much scope for the true geniuses who once lifted smaller Clubs up to compete with the best. As a result, the gap between reality and expectation creates uncertainties which can be crippling. Gambling vast sums of the Club's money on players who lose 6-0 to a side next to bottom is dangerous. Not for any of them, but for the Club. We all know that Clubs have freak results, steady themselves and go on to outperform their tormentors (QPR 1-6 Brentford in the opening game in 1966 will spring to mind for the more perennially youthful of our support. We almost won promotion that year, they went down). But steadying ourselves and putting on a decent show in mid-table won't recover tens of millions lost. And it is difficult for a manager to know why the team is doing well or badly because it depends so much on what all the other Clubs are doing, and, by definition, we have very little knowledge or control over that. It isn't a bad idea to bring unpredictable players down to earth. Paying them big money when big performances aren't always forthcoming is a fool's paradise. Unfortunately, there is little appetite - and maybe little scope - to deal with that, as there are so many fools in boardrooms at the moment. They are smart with their own finances, but indifferent to the losses they inflict on the Clubs. We can spend more than we earn, in an effort to haul ourselves up by our bootstraps. But is there the talent around to justify it? Me, I'd never call for a manager to be sacked. If we can't expect the players to deliver on this kind of money, the manager is in the cleft stick of sticking with them, and attempting to gloss over their shortcomings, or paying more for someone else and screwing the Club even more financially. Excellent thread. am glad you appreciate this thred ingham. that is exactly what i intended, A DEBATE. No one here is calling for warnocks head (yet) but i just wanted to to get opinion regarding his team choice and tactical ability (premiership level) no blame atall towards the two owners they have put their money where their mouths are and got the players warnock wanted. i restate my opinion that after the last four games we have only won 1 game or 2 in 7 which is not good enough considering the wages we are paying and money that was spent in transfer window. also, everyone must get real about this dream january transfer window, fernandez is running a tight ship and has splashed out 12-15 mil already plus 40 odd mil in buying the shares dont be expecting to many signings in january. probably just a striker. warnock has to take charge of this team now and make bold decisions regarding tactics and the starting 11. twitter joey needs to be dropped, swp needs to be pinned to the right wing try mackie and dj up front with tarrabt on left and buzz and derry middle of the park. that would be my choice but ffs we need to change this current shite system.
|
|