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Post by terryb on Dec 8, 2020 10:27:53 GMT
As all message boards are so toxic after a defeat for Queens Park Rangers, I was unaware of the problems that arose between bow & other board members.
However, as I know I hold similar views to bow (though mine have mellowed somewhat as I grew old), I have decided to follow bow. For a period I intend to browse the site, but this will be my last posting.
I also wish to voice a few of my thoughts regarding this site, which may not go well with the administrators!
Firstly, if the site is to have a future, you need to drastically reduce the age & mindset of the decision makers. We are 20% through the 21st century but basically the only posting contribution from Mac is living in the past from his time of living in London. Most supporters Of our club were born before Docherty was first appointed as manager or Mobley appeasred on the pitch at loftus Road. Yet, every year, Mac chooses to remind us of IMO our worst manager & player. YES, give me Redknapp & Bosingwa any day over those two!
This board is meant to be football related only & politics is definitely a no go. Is it? Even on football matters, at least one senior member's posts are perceived by me as the rantings of a right wing politician & Mac has at times openly referred to pro Israel sentiments. This is very understandable from him, but he must then throw the board open to all religious and political groups. Mac will be aware that I have previously sent him a PM to reflect this view.
There was also a thread recently bemoaning how "highly regarded" past board members no longer post. I wonder if it was realised how insulting that was for the small group of regular posters that you have? "Oh, how I miss x, y or z", but not one word of appreciation for ricky, bow, marc, ashdown, sharpy etc. An easy way to alienate your members!
To those I mentioned & more who's names escape my memory at the moment, I wish to say goodbye & thank you for the comradeship we have shared.
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Post by Ashdown_Ranger on Dec 8, 2020 10:48:46 GMT
Very well put, on all counts Terry. As Douglas Adams said, 'So long and thanks for all the fish...'
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Post by Lonegunmen on Dec 8, 2020 10:50:02 GMT
Bye.
Terry I read what you are saying with interest. For the most part we have kept politics out of football on this site. Sadly since the Football League have decided to endorse the kneeling at games, they have brought it in under the microscope. I wish it had never been allowed. What was one American problem has become everyone's problem. A very strange year, with that and Covid. 2020 certainly needs to be written off.
I find I agree with you about the constant living in yesteryear. there are certain sites on FB that revel in it, but they have the luxury of ex players actively taking part. Hell, I caught up with Mick Speight - a player I hadn't spoken to for 42 years or thereabouts. So what do we do about it? The next generation is around us. Our kids, grandkids etc. Well I don't think it should be up to the admin/mods to do all the work. Here is a platform that has tried to encourage new ideas and or participation. I've a few ideas but I am sitting on them to think them through. Our shared QPR history is an important piece of this site but you are right, we need to move forward.
I appreciate the time you took to type the message above me. I did/do appreciate Bow's input. The good thing about democracy is that we have the freedom to express opinions whether or not they are agreed with or not. The world is changing and in some ways for the better and in others not so. At the end of the day, football is being challenged - from Covid, to BLM. I'm praying common sense and football win the day. I want to see the day when Covid is gone and crowds are back in grounds creating the atmospheres again.
The numbers on this site have decreased and yes it is a concern. Nowdays it seems to be Twitter and Facebook. But I still love MB's like this one. At a challenging time is when we should all be sticking together, staying safe and healthy before returning to the grounds we all once enjoyed.
Good luck to you whichever direction your life and interests take you. Stay safe, Stay Healthy.
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Post by surreychad on Dec 8, 2020 11:46:42 GMT
This seems a real shame to me. I don't know you well at all TerryB but wish you the best.
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Post by rangersman on Dec 8, 2020 13:11:02 GMT
So differences of opinion are now deemed insults!!!. I too have supported QPR for 60 years, and in all that time i have taken others views with consideration and respect. Never crossed my mind they were regarded as insults. but then i am an easy going chap. Cannot believe the amount of vitriol from some on here for having different views. It will become apparent that there are millions of others in this world with different opinions on things. Its coming across like i am being used as a Scapegoat for wanting to leave this site, how childish in the extreme. Something i would not do is give in and walk away, but each to their own i suppose. I can assure you i will still sleep soundly at night. Even more so if we beat Millwall tonight.
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Post by Macmoish on Dec 8, 2020 13:17:44 GMT
Well obviously I am sorry to see people go. And if you decide to change your mind or at some point decide to return; you'll be welcome. As for the idea that eschewing political discussion means in any sense being "Even handed" re racism. Not at all. And the history of this board - and my posts on it say otherwise. I wish you all well on other messageboards. Whereever we are; we will all undoubtedly continue to support QPR what posted I yesterday - and a couple of responses et al qprreport.proboards.com/thread/46342/reminder-board-eschews-politics-stick WE DON"T WANT POLITICAL DISCUSSION or Posts. Now I confess and apologize that I don't read every thread or every post. And life if too short to have to spend time moderating - Those days are over. As a general rule of thumb - That's why this board was set up - Just QPR. No Politics. Now you can argue "well how about this?" and cite something - and even point to posts by me. And you might well be right But I don' want to get emmersed in having to defend every decision we make. You're all obviously entitled to your political and ideological views. And it's not whether they are "right" or "wrong." It's that they don't have a place on this board. You want to accuse me of being PC (which would be a joke for anyone who knows me) That having been said; this board excludes Racism, antisemitism, homophobia etc etc I think everyone here knows what is and is not acceptible. There are so many other places to discuss/argue/put forth your view on non football issues Thanks
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Post by stylecouncillor on Dec 8, 2020 13:28:50 GMT
This is now starting to take the look of the day the messageboard died. All over this messageboard there are post from people saying they would not post any longer. In the last hour I have added what I thought was a plea to Bow to reconsider a PM to Ricky asking him to reconsider and yet on every click there is another post by posters who say they won't post anymore. These are all posters who I have enjoyed debates and posts with for many a year. It now looks like I won't be able to enjoy these debates any longer.
I am rather torn here because I obviously support their reasoning on not wishing to post any longer. Personally I continue to Post because of the reasoning that by walking away and not voicing an objection you kind of let those with an agenda win. I also agree alot with what Terry wrote and as he pointed out there is not really supposed to be politics on this messageboard . It is also a bit difficult to keep politics off this site at the moment as it is intertwined with football for various reasons. It is therefore probably quite difficult to moderate.
Anyway I would hope that everyone who has said they would not be posting any longer reconsiders, That is absolutely everyone I would rather have a different opinion with someone and debate it than to have no debate at all.
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Post by sharky on Dec 8, 2020 13:36:42 GMT
I will not be leaving the board and give my unreserved support to those who have been forced off the board.
The Millwall supporters are a bunch of thugs and now they have been exposed as racist too. I hope we stuff em tonight!
COME ON URRRRRSSSS!!!!!
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LifeR
Ian Holloway
Posts: 480
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Post by LifeR on Dec 8, 2020 17:07:29 GMT
This is now starting to take the look of the day the messageboard died. All over this messageboard there are post from people saying they would not post any longer. In the last hour I have added what I thought was a plea to Bow to reconsider a PM to Ricky asking him to reconsider and yet on every click there is another post by posters who say they won't post anymore. These are all posters who I have enjoyed debates and posts with for many a year. It now looks like I won't be able to enjoy these debates any longer. I am rather torn here because I obviously support their reasoning on not wishing to post any longer. Personally I continue to Post because of the reasoning that by walking away and not voicing an objection you kind of let those with an agenda win. I also agree alot with what Terry wrote and as he pointed out there is not really supposed to be politics on this messageboard . It is also a bit difficult to keep politics off this site at the moment as it is intertwined with football for various reasons. It is therefore probably quite difficult to moderate. Anyway I would hope that everyone who has said they would not be posting any longer reconsiders, That is absolutely everyone I would rather have a different opinion with someone and debate it than to have no debate at all.Well said sir.
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Post by surreychad on Dec 8, 2020 17:08:11 GMT
I will not be leaving the board and give my unreserved support to those who have been forced off the board. The Millwall supporters are a bunch of thugs and now they have been exposed as racist too. I hope we stuff em tonight! COME ON URRRRRSSSS!!!!! Seconded!!!!
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Post by harr on Dec 8, 2020 17:35:56 GMT
Hopefully we can all get back to the football now and pick up some points tonight. It’s been a very bad week to lose posters like Bow,Ricky,Terry and 57. I certainly don’t always agree with their QPR points but always interested in listening to their opinions and discussions and there passion and positivity towards the Club can never be questioned. Big loss as far as I’m concerned.
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Post by Lonegunmen on Dec 8, 2020 20:58:57 GMT
No one has forced anyone to leave. Some have exercised their right to move along. I wish them well.
I dont know who changed Bows Birthday thread title.
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Post by Macmoish on Dec 8, 2020 21:03:48 GMT
And of course, any and all are welcome back.
After all the icon Stan Bowles I believe holds the Football record for making the most Transfer requests to leave...
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Post by rangersman on Dec 8, 2020 21:52:28 GMT
No one was forced to leave, its just got out of hand with all this. Good result tonight, and the Millwall supporters applauded the banner, so lets all move on. They can all come back anytime they want as far as i am concerned, no bother to me at all.
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Post by stylecouncillor on Dec 8, 2020 21:54:58 GMT
And of course, any and all are welcome back. After all the icon Stan Bowles I believe holds the Football record for making the most Transfer requests to leave... No offence Mac but the above is not really good enough. Today is a matchday and for the first time in .... probably ever there is no match thread. Today is almost as I said earlier the day this message board died. Even those of us have made the decision to stay can't hold a debate/ conversation with ourselves. If things have happened behind the scenes regarding PM's and emails at least enquiring about why various people feel the need to leave then I apologise. If not why not? I would of thought it was the job of administrators to at least enquire. And then to administer. Now personally I don't want anybody banned but maybe for those that have left this would be the only reason they would come back then that is for the administrators to make a decision, I think the bottom line is if anyone has caused offence to someone else be it accidently or on purpose is it really so difficult to say sorry for offence caused, rather than just constantly twisting the knife in to make their point. a Message board is all about opinions and debate its not to cause offence and long may that continue. But as I stated before you can't debate on your own.
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Post by londonranger on Dec 8, 2020 22:50:34 GMT
Style, I have reconstructed a match thread. There was a lot of action at Millwall with the players undoing the hurts from previous game.
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Post by rangersman on Dec 8, 2020 22:51:39 GMT
If Administrators decide to ban someone just to bring back former members who left of their own accord. Then there would be something very very wrong, and not something i have ever witnessed. People need to realise its a big world out there, with many varying views. For the record my comment ( i am with the Millwall fans) was for their stance on the BLM organisations actions to date. NO offence or implication of racism whatsoever. If some people perceive that differently then that really is not anyones fault. You cannot assume someones beliefs and then refuse to listen to them and call them names, let alone demand they leave. They need to grow up IMO and that is not meant sarcastically, just a reality check. As the admins state, this site is about Football not making assumptions on peoples political views. I am fully aware some would like to see myself removed from here so others will come back, and that would be solely for having different views. Nothing i said was offensive to any rational person, good god i am on sites elsewhere, where i would have to leave every other day. You want to ban me? go ahead, a fellow QPR supporter born and bred in the Bush, cast aside because some members cannot take another point of view. BTW my Black nephews and nieces cannot believe this all happened in the first place, and want you to get real and move on. One thing i am not doing is apologising to anyone for not sharing their views. I hope you hold the same stance in life.
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Post by sharky on Dec 8, 2020 23:11:51 GMT
Lone and rangersman you say no one was forced off this board. You are entitled to your opinions. I have a different view. I believe some posters were forced off this board and I hope you respect my views.
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Post by Lonegunmen on Dec 9, 2020 4:28:35 GMT
NO ONE was told to leave. They left through their own decision and convictions. I can live with that. If they choose to come back, great and if not, I still wish them well.
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Post by Macmoish on Dec 9, 2020 8:37:31 GMT
As all message boards are so toxic after a defeat for Queens Park Rangers, I was unaware of the problems that arose between bow & other board members. However, as I know I hold similar views to bow (though mine have mellowed somewhat as I grew old), I have decided to follow bow. For a period I intend to browse the site, but this will be my last posting. I also wish to voice a few of my thoughts regarding this site, which may not go well with the administrators! Firstly, if the site is to have a future, you need to drastically reduce the age & mindset of the decision makers. We are 20% through the 21st century but basically the only posting contribution from Mac is living in the past from his time of living in London. Most supporters Of our club were born before Docherty was first appointed as manager or Mobley appeasred on the pitch at loftus Road. Yet, every year, Mac chooses to remind us of IMO our worst manager & player. YES, give me Redknapp & Bosingwa any day over those two! This board is meant to be football related only & politics is definitely a no go. Is it? Even on football matters, at least one senior member's posts are perceived by me as the rantings of a right wing politician & Mac has at times openly referred to pro Israel sentiments. This is very understandable from him, but he must then throw the board open to all religious and political groups. Mac will be aware that I have previously sent him a PM to reflect this view. There was also a thread recently bemoaning how "highly regarded" past board members no longer post. I wonder if it was realised how insulting that was for the small group of regular posters that you have? "Oh, how I miss x, y or z", but not one word of appreciation for ricky, bow, marc, ashdown, sharpy etc. An easy way to alienate your members! To those I mentioned & more who's names escape my memory at the moment, I wish to say goodbye & thank you for the comradeship we have shared.
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Post by Macmoish on Dec 9, 2020 8:55:07 GMT
My response even to leavers As all message boards are so toxic after a defeat for Queens Park Rangers, I was unaware of the problems that arose between bow & other board members. However, as I know I hold similar views to bow (though mine have mellowed somewhat as I grew old), I have decided to follow bow. For a period I intend to browse the site, but this will be my last posting. I also wish to voice a few of my thoughts regarding this site, which may not go well with the administrators! Firstly, if the site is to have a future, you need to drastically reduce the age & mindset of the decision makers. We are 20% through the 21st century but basically the only posting contribution from Mac is living in the past from his time of living in London. Most supporters Of our club were born before Docherty was first appointed as manager or Mobley appeasred on the pitch at loftus Road. Yet, every year, Mac chooses to remind us of IMO our worst manager & player. YES, give me Redknapp & Bosingwa any day over those two!
You may be right about the age of the "decision makers" - but in truth - and there may be a flaw; there really are NO "decision makers" - apart from a few spam posters which we see and remove; we really for many years have not needed Administrators/"decision makers" That was the whole beauty of this site/intent of this site when I set it up. Yes back in the bad old days we were attacked by some. As for my postings: One of my major QPR interests is undeniably QPR nostalgia and history. And I post on it. Another is for how QPR are run and have been run - and for many many years - way before I set up this board (or my old blog); my interest has been in documenting/reminding what ownership (present and past) and have said and done. Others have been free to post their own QPR STuff. As they liked.
This board is meant to be football related only & politics is definitely a no go. Is it? Even on football matters, at least one senior member's posts are perceived by me as the rantings of a right wing politician & Mac has at times openly referred to pro Israel sentiments. This is very understandable from him, but he must then throw the board open to all religious and political groups. Mac will be aware that I have previously sent him a PM to reflect this view. I am unquestionably pro-Israel and not ashamed of it in the slightest. But I think if you go through my past posts on this board; you would find very few of that kind from me. Not 1 in 100...Not in in 500 of my posts. I have wished happy Jewish Holidays. That's not Israel. And I did proudly make a deal when the club used to wish people happy Holidays for Christian, Muslim, Hindu holidays. BUt said nothing on Jewish Holidays. (The club has changed that pattern; for which I'm very grateful). And I think that focus was on my blog. I have posted on anti-Semitism in English football. That's not Israel. And I did post on Joey Barton when he bashed Israel in the crudest terms. I have posted sometimes on Israeli Soccer.
There was also a thread recently bemoaning how "highly regarded" past board members no longer post. I wonder if it was realised how insulting that was for the small group of regular posters that you have? "Oh, how I miss x, y or z", but not one word of appreciation for ricky, bow, marc, ashdown, sharpy etc. An easy way to alienate your members!It may not be tactful; but people on every board do it. And it's surely permissable for people on a board to post their views on this. To those I mentioned & more who's names escape my memory at the moment, I wish to say goodbye & thank you for the comradeship we have shared. The bottom line: Obviously this site has declined in numbers in recent years. And obviously I regret departures in recent days. And obviously I hope people decided to return. But while I've made some mistakes - To post or not to post is largely out of my hands. And many of the problems experienced with this site; I'm sure after a while you'll find with others. The central premise when I first set up this site - without consulting with anyone or having mass backing;- was to focus on QPR present and past on and off the field. And I'm pretty proud of what, at least for a while it was.
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Goodbye
Dec 9, 2020 18:05:47 GMT
via mobile
LifeR likes this
Post by egranger on Dec 9, 2020 18:05:47 GMT
Please keep up the good work Macmoish - it’s a great website and one that is in the positive about Rangers and the posts are focussed on the club. Thank you to you and the other moderators.
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Goodbye
Dec 9, 2020 19:33:39 GMT
via mobile
Post by Lonegunmen on Dec 9, 2020 19:33:39 GMT
All MB are losing members, just a fact of life as lifestyles and behaviors change. Just keep plugging along. I'm looking forward to the day Hoops fans will fill the stands again.
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