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Post by londonranger on Dec 2, 2020 3:02:43 GMT
Every season we finish in the lower half of the league, well if thats what management wants and can afford so be it, But what did they do with the 19 million they got for Eze.
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Post by hitmanrangers on Dec 2, 2020 7:33:35 GMT
On the Eze money at least half used to cover loss of income for this season and end of last, then we spent about £5m on Dykes, Dickie, Bonne and Willock, rest for a rainy day.
Next game we need to go with a flat back 4 rather than 2 at the back with wingbacks as Ball and Carroll don’t seem to be quick or alert enough to cover the spaces they should be when full backs get caught forward. We need to block more crosses and just dig out a dirty clean sheet from somewhere. I am all for flowing, attacking football and pushing fullback up the pitch, but we can’t set up like Man City when we don’t have the players particularly in centre midfield.
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rico
Dave Mangnall
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Post by rico on Dec 2, 2020 8:16:07 GMT
Its the lack of quality are players lack and that's down to the clubs budget loads of commitment and energy no real quality to kill games off the fact that dykes has only scored once from open play and carrol ball willock ect were all free contract players but fitted our circumstances one can only hope they will and should improve the defence however is down to coaching warnock would have improved there ability to defend properly
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Post by bowranger on Dec 2, 2020 9:06:42 GMT
Every season we finish in the lower half of the league, well if thats what management wants and can afford so be it, But what did they do with the 19 million they got for Eze. We lose money by simply existing to the tune of about 8-9m quid a season (not including covid situation). Owners put in around a million monthly to keep things ticking over. So a good chunk of that money goes into keeping us existing as a football club. Then some of the money was reinvested in the squad this season - Bonne, Kelman, Adomah, Willock, Dickie, where with some of them, alongside existing young players, we develop them to sell on for a profit, like we did with Eze. Feel like this is trotted out monthly, the club are really really open about what the financial plan is and where the money is going.
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Post by rickyqpr on Dec 2, 2020 9:19:34 GMT
Every season we finish in the lower half of the league, well if thats what management wants and can afford so be it, But what did they do with the 19 million they got for Eze. We lose money by simply existing to the tune of about 8-9m quid a season (not including covid situation). Owners put in around a million monthly to keep things ticking over. So a good chunk of that money goes into keeping us existing as a football club. Then some of the money was reinvested in the squad this season - Bonne, Kelman, Adomah, Willock, Dickie, where with some of them, alongside existing young players, we develop them to sell on for a profit, like we did with Eze. Feel like this is trotted out monthly, the club are really really open about what the financial plan is and where the money is going. And even then the money is only received (and paid out) in installments. Outside of the Prem, it is all about post Covid survival.
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Post by rickyqpr on Dec 2, 2020 9:21:57 GMT
Its the lack of quality are players lack and that's down to the clubs budget loads of commitment and energy no real quality to kill games off the fact that dykes has only scored once from open play and carrol ball willock ect were all free contract players but fitted our circumstances one can only hope they will and should improve the defence however is down to coaching warnock would have improved there ability to defend properly To be fair, Pullis would get the current players to defend and keep blank sheets - as he will do at Sheff. Wednesday - but it will be pretty boring! I know we lost again, but I really enjoyed watching us in the first half and I was as frustrated as everyone else in the second period - but give me some entertainment over Pullisball everyday.
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Post by rickyqpr on Dec 2, 2020 9:24:01 GMT
We will play much worse than last night and win.................
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Post by bowranger on Dec 2, 2020 9:55:01 GMT
We will play much worse than last night and win................. Yeah. It's a hard sell at the moment as we are treading water money wise and everything has to operate on the hope that players step up. For our crop of cheap or young buys, you've got to hope that for every Freeman, BOS, Eze, Manning and Furlong we bring in and polish up, you get the same results over time with Chair, Willock, Dickie, Bonne, Kelman, Dykes, Niko and Bettache etc. Some will make it, some won't. It's a market necessarily defined by risk because people who are proven at this level are predominantly out of our price range - or if they're affordable, they're older (like Adomah). And logically, that's going to mean inconsistency. Agree with you that I'd take this over Pulisball every day of the week. It's frustrating when things don't come to plan in the moment, of course. I was annoyed after last night and still am. But I always think back to the start of the season when we see the players who have gone, the upheaval and all the predictions saying we'd just be happy to stay up, somewhere in midtable, with people putting a shift in. Predominantly, that's what we are doing. And with the games coming so thick and fast, it can change massively week to week. Weeks ago, we had talk that we were definitely going into a relegation scrap and no one had any hope. 2 weeks later, we are 13th and no one is saying a word about it. Another defeat and it all comes out again.
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Post by harr on Dec 2, 2020 10:30:15 GMT
Its the lack of quality are players lack and that's down to the clubs budget loads of commitment and energy no real quality to kill games off the fact that dykes has only scored once from open play and carrol ball willock ect were all free contract players but fitted our circumstances one can only hope they will and should improve the defence however is down to coaching warnock would have improved there ability to defend properly To be fair, Pullis would get the current players to defend and keep blank sheets - as he will do at Sheff. Wednesday - but it will be pretty boring! I know we lost again, but I really enjoyed watching us in the first half and I was as frustrated as everyone else in the second period - but give me some entertainment over Pullisball everyday. Dunno, would take a few ground out 1-0 wins at the minute. If you concede sloppy goals most weeks as we do, you rarely come away with three points like we have so far 4 times. We wont score as many this season but still leak and so have one of the worst goals against tallies again already, just like last year only last year we scored more thro Eze,Wells,Hugill etc.
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Post by rickyqpr on Dec 2, 2020 11:03:56 GMT
To be fair, Pullis would get the current players to defend and keep blank sheets - as he will do at Sheff. Wednesday - but it will be pretty boring! I know we lost again, but I really enjoyed watching us in the first half and I was as frustrated as everyone else in the second period - but give me some entertainment over Pullisball everyday. Dunno, would take a few ground out 1-0 wins at the minute. If you concede sloppy goals most weeks as we do, you rarely come away with three points like we have so far 4 times. We wont score as many this season but still leak and so have one of the worst goals against tallies again already, just like last year only last year we scored more thro Eze,Wells,Hugill etc. Totally understand where you are coming from. It is the fear of what could happen that impacts on our thinking. Relegation would be a disaster. But we look very good at times and it is hard to legislate for individual errors, especially when several have been down to one of our best players (Dickie). Last night he scored and then passed us into trouble, and yet he is one of the best ball playing defenders in the league. I also feel that we have a goalkeeper who can keep us in games, that has not happened since Smithies. Dieng will have a rough patch, but the basics look good. So as 75 said above, time for strong nerve.....and hope. But if we did grind out a few one nil victories, all the talk would be of the play-offs, such is our league, but I would certainly enjoy the points!
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Post by rickyqpr on Dec 2, 2020 11:04:18 GMT
There are quite a few teams in the Championship better than us, including B. City. There are also quite a few teams who are definitely worse than us. The Championship is always a mixed up league with any team beating any other team but in this weird season of no fans, games every couple of days with international breaks thrown in between anything can happen. We have a young squad some with just a handful of first team games under their belt and are bound to be inconsistent The other day I posted about the number of games we have to play in December and in that thread I said I can see us winning any of the games and I can also see us losing any of the games. Nothing has changed my mind. This season for basically all the Championship clubs except the 3 relegated from the PL is all about survival - both survival in the league and survival financially. We have had some disappointing results from very good performances and more often than not are among the most enjoyable teams to watch. I'm sure as long as we continue to put on the same sort of performance as last night the results will come but also expect we will play just as ell and lose again. That's the facts of life this season and and we need to be realistic. We are not going to be splashing the cash in the transfer market and if we start chopping and changing managers again we will be no better off. The owners are keeping us afloat financially and can do no more - so Keep Calm and support QPR - must get a T-shirt printed up with that. Yep, agree with that!
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Post by bowranger on Dec 2, 2020 12:14:48 GMT
Dunno, would take a few ground out 1-0 wins at the minute. If you concede sloppy goals most weeks as we do, you rarely come away with three points like we have so far 4 times. We wont score as many this season but still leak and so have one of the worst goals against tallies again already, just like last year only last year we scored more thro Eze,Wells,Hugill etc. Totally understand where you are coming from. It is the fear of what could happen that impacts on our thinking. Relegation would be a disaster. But we look very good at times and it is hard to legislate for individual errors, especially when several have been down to one of our best players (Dickie). Last night he scored and then passed us into trouble, and yet he is one of the best ball playing defenders in the league. I also feel that we have a goalkeeper who can keep us in games, that has not happened since Smithies. Dieng will have a rough patch, but the basics look good. So as 75 said above, time for strong nerve.....and hope. But if we did grind out a few one nil victories, all the talk would be of the play-offs, such is our league, but I would certainly enjoy the points! Yeah, similar take and I definitely feel for where Harr's coming from. 100% agree there is a lot of tightening up to be done. My watch word for a lot of this stuff (not in response to Harr, just generally) is on timing and recruitment. When people bring up Pulis, it's about working with the available parts and changing the footballing philosophy on a club level. Currently, we are on a path where the first team plays a variety of 4-2-3-1 focused on ball retention and playing out from the back. That's linked to a wider 'identity' project that goes all the way through the club, from the kids to the U23s. The goal being that the next crop are drilled in a way that means they play a certain way and can hopefully slot in when eventually called upon. The goal being somewhere like Brentford where they are 10 years into a process that we are about 5 years into, with incremental year on year improvement. It's the basis of recruitment and development. So I'm always weary when the likes of Pulis get brought up, or there's talk of 'back to basics' 4-4-2, cos the possible short term gain could mean massive long term pain. I look at the players we have and wonder, even if with the most cynical of managers, could you turn that into a gritty, grindy outfit? Could Barbet and Dickie form the heart of a deep lying, head it and kick it into touch defence? Would Willock, Carroll etc fit into a midfield that's essentially bypassed? Does Dykes or Bonne have the conversion rate to be relied upon to feed on scraps? Are Niko and Kakay full backs who can do a sit back role? I don't see it. If you wanted to do that, you'd need a totally different recruitment process, a different layer of players.
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Post by harr on Dec 2, 2020 12:48:48 GMT
There are quite a few teams in the Championship better than us, including B. City. There are also quite a few teams who are definitely worse than us. The Championship is always a mixed up league with any team beating any other team but in this weird season of no fans, games every couple of days with international breaks thrown in between anything can happen. We have a young squad some with just a handful of first team games under their belt and are bound to be inconsistent The other day I posted about the number of games we have to play in December and in that thread I said I can see us winning any of the games and I can also see us losing any of the games. Nothing has changed my mind. This season for basically all the Championship clubs except the 3 relegated from the PL is all about survival - both survival in the league and survival financially. We have had some disappointing results from very good performances and more often than not are among the most enjoyable teams to watch. I'm sure as long as we continue to put on the same sort of performance as last night the results will come but also expect we will play just as ell and lose again. That's the facts of life this season and and we need to be realistic. We are not going to be splashing the cash in the transfer market and if we start chopping and changing managers again we will be no better off. The owners are keeping us afloat financially and can do no more - so Keep Calm and support QPR - must get a T-shirt printed up with that. Just because some teams are better than us on paper doesn’t mean we shouldn’t still be beating them though. That’s what this League is all about, getting results against anyone. If you look at all the teams like we should be beating that are worse than us, we won’t beat all of them and that goes already with Coventry, Barnsley,Birmingham to name a few. So who are the teams worse than then? Wycombe, Rotherham, Derby, .? Coventry and Barnsley have beaten us,we drew with Sheff Weds and Birmingham. We beat three of the teams below us , Forest,Derby and Rotherham but Forest won’t finish down there.
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Post by harr on Dec 2, 2020 13:00:28 GMT
Dunno, would take a few ground out 1-0 wins at the minute. If you concede sloppy goals most weeks as we do, you rarely come away with three points like we have so far 4 times. We wont score as many this season but still leak and so have one of the worst goals against tallies again already, just like last year only last year we scored more thro Eze,Wells,Hugill etc. Totally understand where you are coming from. It is the fear of what could happen that impacts on our thinking. Relegation would be a disaster. But we look very good at times and it is hard to legislate for individual errors, especially when several have been down to one of our best players (Dickie). Last night he scored and then passed us into trouble, and yet he is one of the best ball playing defenders in the league. I also feel that we have a goalkeeper who can keep us in games, that has not happened since Smithies. Dieng will have a rough patch, but the basics look good. So as 75 said above, time for strong nerve.....and hope. But if we did grind out a few one nil victories, all the talk would be of the play-offs, such is our league, but I would certainly enjoy the points! Yes we have a good keeper agree. Looking good is one thing and is great but getting those 3 points is another. I’m not in slightest worried about play offs, more concerned about hovering around or just above the relegation spots. So many individual lapses and errors at critical times, giving sloppy goals away, careless red cards , irrational sending offs in the first 1/3 rd of this season. Is it because we have younger players who are maybe a little more naive or are we lacking guidance from coaching staff here? I have no idea but these lapses have already cost us 10-15 points this season.
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Post by Ashdown_Ranger on Dec 2, 2020 13:25:14 GMT
We're like an old car trying to start on a cold morning. Starter motor won't fire for a couple of turns, then splutters into life briefly giving us cause for optimism (decent draw at Bournemouth), before conking out in a cloud of smoke (hammering by Barnsley). We know it's capable of better, so a quick check under the bonnet, wiggle the HT leads, spray a bit of WD40 and it starts and runs OK, if a little lumpily for a few weeks (wins against Cardiff and Derby), but then the fuel pump packs in and the battery goes flat.
Give it a service in the international break and a partial rebuild in the transfer window and we think we're on our way again, only to have found we may have bought some dodgy parts that aren't all they're cracked up to be. Meanwhile running costs are increasingly worrying and we have to consider the longer term outlook - do we want to keep spending on trying to get a moneypit BMW-like team running sweetly, or is getting a newer, more Vauxhall Nova-ish squad a better plan?
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LifeR
Ian Holloway
Posts: 480
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Post by LifeR on Dec 2, 2020 16:23:10 GMT
We're like an old car trying to start on a cold morning. Starter motor won't fire for a couple of turns, then splutters into life briefly giving us cause for optimism (decent draw at Bournemouth), before conking out in a cloud of smoke (hammering by Barnsley). We know it's capable of better, so a quick check under the bonnet, wiggle the HT leads, spray a bit of WD40 and it starts and runs OK, if a little lumpily for a few weeks (wins against Cardiff and Derby), but then the fuel pump packs in and the battery goes flat. Give it a service in the international break and a partial rebuild in the transfer window and we think we're on our way again, only to have found we may have bought some dodgy parts that aren't all they're cracked up to be. Meanwhile running costs are increasingly worrying and we have to consider the longer term outlook - do we want to keep spending on trying to get a moneypit BMW-like team running sweetly, or is getting a newer, more Vauxhall Nova-ish squad a better plan? Neat analogy Ashdown. Being an Rs supporter remains never a dull moment. Slowly getting there on all fronts. Really solid squad evolving, in conjunction with a defined football culture. Likable and motivated management team and coaches. Lets compare this current set up to that loathsome creature Beard and the despicable Hughes with his disaffected mercenaries. Incidentally, this thread has become pleasantly philosophical regarding the club we follow, win or lose.
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Post by nomar on Dec 2, 2020 17:35:09 GMT
There are quite a few teams in the Championship better than us, including B. City. There are also quite a few teams who are definitely worse than us. The Championship is always a mixed up league with any team beating any other team but in this weird season of no fans, games every couple of days with international breaks thrown in between anything can happen. We have a young squad some with just a handful of first team games under their belt and are bound to be inconsistent The other day I posted about the number of games we have to play in December and in that thread I said I can see us winning any of the games and I can also see us losing any of the games. Nothing has changed my mind. This season for basically all the Championship clubs except the 3 relegated from the PL is all about survival - both survival in the league and survival financially. We have had some disappointing results from very good performances and more often than not are among the most enjoyable teams to watch. I'm sure as long as we continue to put on the same sort of performance as last night the results will come but also expect we will play just as ell and lose again. That's the facts of life this season and and we need to be realistic. We are not going to be splashing the cash in the transfer market and if we start chopping and changing managers again we will be no better off. The owners are keeping us afloat financially and can do no more - so Keep Calm and support QPR - must get a T-shirt printed up with that. This. Sometimes you just get beaten by a better team, who can afford to buy better players, including some you once loaned.
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Post by bowranger on Dec 2, 2020 18:59:48 GMT
Totally understand where you are coming from. It is the fear of what could happen that impacts on our thinking. Relegation would be a disaster. But we look very good at times and it is hard to legislate for individual errors, especially when several have been down to one of our best players (Dickie). Last night he scored and then passed us into trouble, and yet he is one of the best ball playing defenders in the league. I also feel that we have a goalkeeper who can keep us in games, that has not happened since Smithies. Dieng will have a rough patch, but the basics look good. So as 75 said above, time for strong nerve.....and hope. But if we did grind out a few one nil victories, all the talk would be of the play-offs, such is our league, but I would certainly enjoy the points! Yes we have a good keeper agree. Looking good is one thing and is great but getting those 3 points is another. I’m not in slightest worried about play offs, more concerned about hovering around or just above the relegation spots. So many individual lapses and errors at critical times, giving sloppy goals away, careless red cards , irrational sending offs in the first 1/3 rd of this season. Is it because we have younger players who are maybe a little more naive or are we lacking guidance from coaching staff here? I have no idea but these lapses have already cost us 10-15 points this season. I think some are brain farts but by and large a lot of what we see as lapses are just representative of the development and quality of players we have - both at our club and across the division. Loose balls, iffy decisions and whatnot define a lot of matches at this level. Dickie as a microcosm ballsed it up for a goal, but also showed his quality with a headed goal - a chance City may see as a lapse from their defence getting bullied and not dealing with a CB up for a cross. There's more to all of this of course but it's the risk thing again. League one players making a step up, or players making their first steps in this division will sometimes make mistakes, those are the waters we swim in. It's frustrating, it should hopefully improve given more time, more minutes, but they aren't going to be the full package off the bat. I guess the same as the BOS we know now isn't the one we knew in 2018 and Dom Ball isn't the same guy who could barely get a kick in a crap Rotherham side etc.
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Post by spanishal on Dec 3, 2020 11:43:54 GMT
Two things about last night, one being the complimentary comments from the City coach and the fact that Bristols more professional second half approach saw them through. Just about sums it up. Secondly Wells non- celebration after scoring, pretty decent of him methinks.
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Post by harr on Dec 5, 2020 1:12:28 GMT
Last thought on this topic for those who think we are not doing so well. How many on here can say they looked at what was left of our squad at the end of last season , Eze gone, no strikers, only one recognised first team CB etc etc and look at our squad today and can say we have not progressed again with another rebuild. Lots of skill and potential that will develop over time as will results - the important word there is time. We still have a fair way to go on the pitch in my opinion 57. We have been in a horrible situation, however so are a lot of clubs and some are doing better than us on just as small budgets, your Millwall’s , Luton’s etc. Currently though we have a young developing squad, however, is this going to change much over the next few seasons, they will improve and probably most will now be sold as that’s the situation we pretty much are in. We seem to be hovering about the same positions every season, most of us saying it’s fine as long as we don’t go down which will be terrible for the club which it would but deep down you can’t help think that one season soon unless things change we probably will do. There has been many positives around the club after our relegation and subsequent fine and our recruiting has improved no end. But as team we frequently concede goals very easily and whatever way you dress up our clean sheets under MW 8 in 66 games or thereabouts it’s pretty shocking. I think we spent a fair bit of money back on players this season after the Eze sale, so far not much difference really. We score fewer goals as we thought we might but still concede with ease. I can certainly say I’m very happy with how the way things around the Club are now, very positive, great family and community Club, people making the right decisions on who we try to buy etc etc. However unless we address the defending issue, can’t really see much changing under MW. The last 8 games we have nearly let an average of 2 per game again, it’s a trait we can’t seem to come away from. I get the comments about grinding out wins is boring to watch but it gives the team a little belief sometimes when they go on a good run of clean sheets. So really, in a nutshell I am pretty happy with things but certainly some improvement still needed from MW. I don’t see why we can’t spend a season fluttering a bit higher in the League why not, other clubs in the Championship that are no different to us manage it for fair spells even if they don’t make the play offs. So what are our goals in the Division say for the next three seasons? Just stay in it, like the last few ?
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Post by egranger on Dec 5, 2020 10:04:04 GMT
The members of this board are genuinely more positive and optimistic than on the boards and for that I must thank you.
We played so well in the first half against Bristol but unfortunately did not take our chances.
We simply must stick with MW - he is a good manager producing entertaining football on a relative shoestring budget.
44 of our goals last season were scored by three players no longer with us. We continue though to play great football with our own strikers who we must give time to adjust to the new level they are playing at.
We have unearthed a great goalie and two young full backs who will make mistakes whilst they learn their trade. Same goes for Dickie who looks a great signing.
We should have thrashed Bristol and hope today we take our chances against Huddersfield this to give us cheer.
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