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Post by Ashdown_Ranger on Apr 18, 2020 12:14:30 GMT
Didn't seem to be a thread for this, so thought I'd start one. EFL thinks the season could be completed 'within 56 days' of resumption and played behind closed doors. Just wondering though quite how this would be possible, with players, officials, coaches and ground staff all needing to be there - at least 200 people in all apparently... www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52230105EFL is apparently planning to stream all games live when (if?) the season resumes. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52317944Meanwhile, here's Lee Hoos' take on things...“I think football needs a complete and total reboot at every single level in terms of sustainability, where we are with player salaries. “This is the tip of the iceberg. Where we are right now is terrible, we’re trying to find ways to fund the businesses going forward but right now we’re funding businesses out of future revenues, so at some point you jump off a cliff. “The crowds aren’t going to be there [in the near future]. The people who have been on 80 per cent pay for a long time aren’t going to have the cash to spend money on football and, even if you can, it looks like the season is going to start late which means you’re going to have more midweek games and they’re notorious for poor crowds. “It’s about looking to the future, making sure things are square for the future - but that’s a tough ask for football as everyone’s chasing that dream right in front of them.”
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Post by harr on Apr 24, 2020 6:52:52 GMT
Mark Warburton wrote a piece in Today’s Daily Mirror re football and the virus. I get the impression he thinks the amount of money around is crazy. Mark Warburton claims football needs a complete “reboot” after the coronavirus crisis. Queens Park Rangers boss Warburton has warned the beautiful game has been left “fighting for survival” by the financial blackhole facing clubs at all levels. Warburton’s reality check will not be so much of a wake-up call to EFL clubs who will only be too well aware of the grim situation which is threatening their very futures. But it may hammer home the message to players and fans who refuse to accept the depth of the crisis, especially for those clubs who have spent far too long spending and living beyond their means. The chickens are coming home to roost not just for big-spending Premier League clubs but dozens of EFL clubs who are facing uncertain futures after years of overspending on transfers and player wages. Warburton said: “You can’t avoid the fact that the game is fighting for survival. People are oblivious to the severity of the situation. We have a league structure that is the envy of the world but that is threatened now by what we are facing as a society. We have to be aware of the situation. The sooner football realises where we stand the better we can move forward. I have no vendetta against players, it’s all about the players and we all want to see the best players play. That’s why we love the game. But I do agree that we have to press the reboot button. There’s too many clubs in a financially-weak position. “Right now, if you’re a cynic of the game, you could say it is time to almost cleanse the system. We don’t want that. And yet because of the emotion and passion of football, we tolerate certain wage situations that can’t be allowed. “We want to retain as much as we possibly can. But we can’t ignore the fact that certain clubs have been run inappropriately, such as with FFP, and we have to recognise this fact.” QPR have been in discussions with their players over taking wage deferrals but Warburton insisted that only cuts will make a difference. But Warburton insisted that players have to “open their eyes” and realise that other staff, essential backroom staff, are taking cuts to help the clubs while the Professional Footballers’ Association insist that players should not accept it. Clubs are frustrated with the PFA for attempting to block wage cuts at all levels when the reality is that some will not be able to pay their players in the coming months unless they drastically change their finances. Warburton told Sky: “We are all working guys and taking pay cuts or losing money is never comfortable. But the fact is there is a huge elephant in the room with nobody noticing it never mind talking about it. “Clubs have to act in unity with their staff and players to try to ensure their long-term survival. And if we can do that and if we can work together then we have a chance or riding out what is going to be a very tough storm indeed for 18 months to two years. “The financial landscape of the game is changing and we have to adapt to it. I think you have to mention that word wage cuts. “I spoke to an agent the other day who told me that young League One players are on two or three grand a week. That’s 100 to 150 grand per year basic. "If you’re talking qualified sports scientists, and physiotherapists and recruitment guys, who are taking wage cuts on a lot less money, we have to open our eyes and understand where we are. “And if we can give good information to players, make them aware of where each individual club stands, they’re good guys, they're not fools, and I think they would respond.” www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/qpr-manager-mark-warburton-says-21915464
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Post by rickyqpr on Apr 24, 2020 16:04:35 GMT
Ok – in the interest of keeping the MB going and to stimulate debate, both Hoos and Warburton have taken to the press to express their fears about the future of the game. They are not specific about what changes are required, but what do we think could or should be done. Here are some longer-term possibilities: • Player wage caps per division • Automatic player wage reductions to divisional cap for relegated teams • One-year extension options in all players contracts at club’s discretion • Stricter regulation on agent’s activities and agent’s fees • One transfer window only • Fairer rules on academy players to protect clubs – cap the number of academy players that top tier clubs can contract and the number of loans that they can grant. Provide incentives for lower clubs to develop and retain youth players. • Consistent rules for player sell-on fees so that clubs in financial trouble can not be further exploited • Restructuring of League Cup – to exclude Premier league Clubs from the competition • Restructuring of FA Cup – games to be played mid-week – no replays • Lower leagues to be regoinalised – back to 3rd Division South and North • Consider Championship regionalization as well. • Reduce TV parachute payments through the introduction of wage capping following relegation • Eradicate Sky Red Button weekday coverage • Fairer distribution of the TV revenues to protect lower league clubs and narrow the gap (will never happen!!!) • Allocate some of the TV income to a relief fund to support clubs in short term difficulties • Merge Clubs or Ground Share • Provide structure and financial incentives to allow 3rd tier clubs to go part-time or become community clubs • Tighten the rules and due diligence regarding change of ownership of clubs. • Overhaul the FFP guidelines providing greater clarity with pre-agreed penalties and appeal procedures. • Overhaul the rules related to sponsorship of clubs and players. • Any others? Of course, many of the above would be like turkeys voting for Christmas so highly unlikely to happen. The elite would rather be just that and to hell with the rest. Top clubs buy from overseas and search the youth setups to stockpile and restrict other clubs from acquiring. So they have little interest in the domestic pyramid. None of the above relate directly to the pandemic or short term issues that clubs will face when we re-start. But once the green light signals a restart to the season, it will be back to the usual madness. Perhaps, the pandemic will force a rethink, it is needed, but who knows what will happen.... What do people think could or should happen, and what will it mean for QPR?
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Post by Roller on Apr 24, 2020 17:10:52 GMT
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Post by harr on Apr 24, 2020 18:08:56 GMT
I would be surprised if we get a finish where all 9 games get played, and this takes about 4-5 weeks duration for the games to get played. We seem to be 2 weeks behind Spain and Italy and they are still having around 400 deaths a day. That takes us until Mid May to be where they are. How many more weeks to get from 400 deaths a day to something like 50 or 100 where they might even consider it, surely that’s another month. If they finish it, it will be behind closed doors in June and if that doesn’t happen it may get cancelled. If they start in June it won’t finish until July so the next season gets affected. Only Germany might finish there Leagues due to how well they controlled the virus. Italy Spain and France are all in our boat.
Lives saved are the most important thing. I would rather it gets played but must not in any way influence more lives being lost or a second wave coming it’s not worth the risk
It’s good to see a few posts on here, stay safe everyone.....
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Post by Roller on Apr 24, 2020 18:50:04 GMT
Just to initially pick up on a couple of your points Ricky • Player wage caps per division • Overhaul the FFP guidelines providing greater clarity with pre-agreed penalties and appeal procedures. League 1 and 2 do have a wage cap of sorts. The way that FFP works at their level is that they are only allowed to spend up to a percentage of their revenue on wages. In League 1 it is 60%, in League 2 it is either 55% or 50%. It was 55%, I think I recall it being reduced to 50%. This is, of course, subject to a myriad provisos, clauses and general dicking around. There are pre-agreed penalties with FFP, they just aren't very well publicised. Rather than write this from scratch I'll paste in a few paragraphs from my column in AKUTRs on Birmingham's punishment from last season. For some time, it has been common knowledge that the Football League were in favour of using a points deduction as their preferred punishment, but the application of this has remained unclear. In the weeks and month leading up to the decision, all the talk had been of a 12-point penalty, so when the tribunal saw fit to only deduct 9 points from Birmingham there was a more than a muttering of consternation. However, the reasoning behind this was all explained in the disciplinary commission report.
The 12-point deduction, which we all heard so much about, is the EFL’s default position. However, this only applies for breaches over £15 million. For breaches under this amount, this notional figure is reduced according to a sliding scale. As an example, if a club is only up to £2 million over their FFP limit, the 12-point deduction is reduced by 9 points. Birmingham, who fell into the £8 million to £10 million bracket qualified for a reduction of 5 points and so their sanction was 7 points.
This points deduction is then subject to be increased depending on “aggravating factors”. On the face of it, Birmingham signing Kristian Pedersen last summer while under a transfer embargo would appear to fall into this category, but this was not regarded as such by the tribunal. Transfer embargo is a very misleading term, registration embargo is far more accurate. Clubs are entitled to sign whichever players they like, but their ruling authority, in this case the EFL, can refuse to register them. Back in 2015, Barcelona signed Arda Turan and Aleix Vidal while under a transfer embargo, neither player was registered until the following January. As the EFL did eventually ratify Pedersen’s registration before the season started, it didn’t qualify as an aggravating factor.
That is not to say that there weren’t any aggravating factors. Birmingham’s own forecast in June 2017 predicted that while they would just manage to satisfy the FFP requirements in the 2017/18 season, they would fail to do so for the following two seasons. Their response to this was to allow Harry Redknapp to sign 9 new permanent players and another 5 on loan at a cost of £23.75 million, nearly doubling the cost of the players’ wages in the process. The tribunal regarded this as an intentional breach of the rules and, as such, warranted the deduction of a further 3 points increasing Birmingham’s sanction to 10 points.
However, as Birmingham admitted that they’d breeched FFP, at a point at which they could hardly deny it, was rewarded with a further point being deducted from their sanction, reducing it to a final total of 9 points. I’ve not seen this mentioned elsewhere, but Birmingham were also required to pay the costs of the tribunal and the legal cost of the EFL.
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Post by terryb on Apr 24, 2020 19:56:32 GMT
Ok – in the interest of keeping the MB going and to stimulate debate, both Hoos and Warburton have taken to the press to express their fears about the future of the game. They are not specific about what changes are required, but what do we think could or should be done. Here are some longer-term possibilities: • Player wage caps per division • Automatic player wage reductions to divisional cap for relegated teams • One-year extension options in all players contracts at club’s discretion • Stricter regulation on agent’s activities and agent’s fees • One transfer window only • Fairer rules on academy players to protect clubs – cap the number of academy players that top tier clubs can contract and the number of loans that they can grant. Provide incentives for lower clubs to develop and retain youth players. • Consistent rules for player sell-on fees so that clubs in financial trouble can not be further exploited • Restructuring of League Cup – to exclude Premier league Clubs from the competition • Restructuring of FA Cup – games to be played mid-week – no replays • Lower leagues to be regoinalised – back to 3rd Division South and North • Consider Championship regionalization as well. • Reduce TV parachute payments through the introduction of wage capping following relegation • Eradicate Sky Red Button weekday coverage • Fairer distribution of the TV revenues to protect lower league clubs and narrow the gap (will never happen!!!) • Allocate some of the TV income to a relief fund to support clubs in short term difficulties • Merge Clubs or Ground Share • Provide structure and financial incentives to allow 3rd tier clubs to go part-time or become community clubs • Tighten the rules and due diligence regarding change of ownership of clubs. • Overhaul the FFP guidelines providing greater clarity with pre-agreed penalties and appeal procedures. • Overhaul the rules related to sponsorship of clubs and players. • Any others? Of course, many of the above would be like turkeys voting for Christmas so highly unlikely to happen. The elite would rather be just that and to hell with the rest. Top clubs buy from overseas and search the youth setups to stockpile and restrict other clubs from acquiring. So they have little interest in the domestic pyramid. None of the above relate directly to the pandemic or short term issues that clubs will face when we re-start. But once the green light signals a restart to the season, it will be back to the usual madness. Perhaps, the pandemic will force a rethink, it is needed, but who knows what will happen.... What do people think could or should happen, and what will it mean for QPR? Here's my replies rick, for what their worth! Personally, I blame the club owners rather than the players for the state the game is! * Player wage caps per division * I would like any cap to be per club as opposed to per plasyer. • Automatic player wage reductions to divisional cap for relegated teams - Clubs should already be inserting these clauses into contracts. Our club set the standard on what not to do! • One-year extension options in all players contracts at club’s discretion - This can't just be in the club's favour. A player should be able to instigate every bit as much as the club. • Stricter regulation on agent’s activities and agent’s fees - Players should pay their own agent's fees. It will require ALL clubs to implement though. Once one club agrees to pay the fee, all clubs will have to! • One transfer window only - I'm not sure how this would be helpful. An alternative would be to allow transfers apart from at the end of the season. It would also help if windows were the same throughout the continent. • Fairer rules on academy players to protect clubs – cap the number of academy players that top tier clubs can contract and the number of loans that they can grant. Provide incentives for lower clubs to develop and retain youth players. - No arguement from me, but I doubt that the Premier clubs will allow this! • Consistent rules for player sell-on fees so that clubs in financial trouble can not be further exploited - I don't think consistency is possible unless it is mandatory that all transfers have a 10% profit sell on clause (10% used for example only) • Restructuring of League Cup – to exclude Premier league Clubs from the competition - An alternative is to scrap thec ompetition, which would be my choice. • Restructuring of FA Cup – games to be played mid-week – no replays - In the contrary! They should be played at weekends & with replays (in all rounds) in midweek. OItherwise scrap the competition! • Lower leagues to be regoinalised – back to 3rd Division South and North - This does not make major savings. For example, it takes less time & is cheaper to go from Ipswivh to Sunderland & Blackpool than to go to Plymouth. I'm not opposed, but any saving in mimimal. • Consider Championship regionalization as well. - See previous answer. • Reduce TV parachute payments through the introduction of wage capping following relegation - This is solely down to the contract between TV & the Premier League. The EFL have no say in this. • Eradicate Sky Red Button weekday coverage - I don't think this has any real rffect on attendances. My solution is in the Any Others section! • Fairer distribution of the TV revenues to protect lower league clubs and narrow the gap (will never happen!!!) - Not feasible! • Allocate some of the TV income to a relief fund to support clubs in short term difficulties - In theory I like this! However, why should a club that deliberately overspends benefit from this? • Merge Clubs or Ground Share - No thank you to merging! I have nothing against ground sharing provided both clubs benefit. • Provide structure and financial incentives to allow 3rd tier clubs to go part-time or become community clubs - They already have the financial incentive. It is called staying alive! I don't think we can justify more than 50ish clubs being full time! • Tighten the rules and due diligence regarding change of ownership of clubs. - Amen to this! • Overhaul the FFP guidelines providing greater clarity with pre-agreed penalties and appeal procedures. - Amen to this! • Overhaul the rules related to sponsorship of clubs and players. Professional players should be employed by the club & not available for individual sponsorship. The Rooney sponsorship is no different to third party ownership IMO. • Any others? - Reduce the amount of clubs in all divisions to a maximum of 20. This will reduce the number of midweek matches & would allow for FA Cup replays. My preference weould be for Premier 20, Championship 20, League One 20, Legue 2 North 20 & League 2 South 20. This would then be carried on to the National, Southern, Isthmian leagues etc. All ST holders (at all clubs) to be allowed to buy ST's for next season at the reduced rate provided they are purchased before the first game of the season, rather tha end of May etc deadlines!
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Post by Roller on Apr 25, 2020 6:09:39 GMT
I would be surprised if we get a finish where all 9 games get played, and this takes about 4-5 weeks duration for the games to get played. We seem to be 2 weeks behind Spain and Italy and they are still having around 400 deaths a day. That takes us until Mid May to be where they are. How many more weeks to get from 400 deaths a day to something like 50 or 100 where they might even consider it, surely that’s another month. If they finish it, it will be behind closed doors in June and if that doesn’t happen it may get cancelled. If they start in June it won’t finish until July so the next season gets affected. Only Germany might finish there Leagues due to how well they controlled the virus. Italy Spain and France are all in our boat. Lives saved are the most important thing. I would rather it gets played but must not in any way influence more lives being lost or a second wave coming it’s not worth the risk It’s good to see a few posts on here, stay safe everyone..... The schedules are going to get ripped apart to accommodate the 2022 World Cup in Qatar, so why not start now? Delay next season so that this one can be finished. It will require flexibility from all the parties involved and for Gordon Taylor and the PFA to actually see what is going on in the world, but it can be done. Once the Qatar World Cup is over the season can start to be re-aligned. The players' contracts would be the main stumbling block, but should be more easy to solve than the inevitable lawsuits that would follow not completing the season from teams that either were relegated or not promoted.
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Post by rickyqpr on Apr 25, 2020 10:50:13 GMT
Yeah, my list was a start point for potential options, not what I think should happen or will happen. It was meant to spark debate - and it has achieved that. There are so many vested interests that self preservation will probably over rule any common sense. There is also the problem that fewer games means even less income. Any incitement for fans to return will also come at a price. The issue for football for a long time has been a pretty fix=d cost base with little to improve income within any given season. TV coverage usually comes as a bonus, but certain clubs in the EFL fair better than others (Leeds). The cost of player wages is central to the debate though. Squads are too large, players and agents have all the sway. I think that is what Hoos and Warburton want to resolve / change. Not easy though. The majority of the possible measures can only be introduced through collective agreement - and I cannot really see much of it happening. What has happened to Bury and Bolton hardly sparked any reaction from the richer clubs. I think most clubs would not worry if the number of clubs were to reduce.
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Post by terryb on Apr 25, 2020 12:34:29 GMT
I do understand why there was little reaction to the problems of Bury & Bolton though. Both were brought on by owners who were only interested in their own ends & not of the well being of the football club.
When some people were critical of Premier clubs for not making donations to "save" them I was amuded! The comments were always well meant, but any money received would have ended up in the back pocket of the owners & not to the creditors. Other club's donatuions would have just encouraged the owners to continue to behave in the same manner or perhaps to redeuce the payments that they were making! Neither club deserved supporting, but any pheneix club that came to fruition would have deserved full backing from all of football. I would never have wanted Queens Park Rangers to be financed by others to pay for our incredible overspending!
Clubs that enter financial difficulties because of the Virus are a different entity though. It matters not if it is Luton, Rochdale, Burton, Aldershot, Slough, Witham etc (clubs picked at different levels rather than that they have money problems), they need the support of the FA, the Premier League, the PFA & anyonbe else who can help! We need these clubs if football is to survive.
I do think that the structure has to change though! I can't see how every club in the EFL can justify being full time professionals, never mind the National League & lower! Hopefully, the current position will give clubs the impetus to adjust their sights & start living within their means!
My expectation is that the transfer market will be greatly devalued when the game returns & so should the wages that are being offered. Likewise, ALL clubs should refuse to pay the players agent fees. I accept that these will mainly be savings at the higher level, but they should filter down the pyramid. Whether this will lead to decreases in admission charges I'm not so sure, as income will need to be maximised as well as reducing expenditure.
What does amaze me is that our club is in a better position to survive than most. What a change from a few years ago!
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Post by blatantfowl on Apr 26, 2020 7:42:48 GMT
Netherlands have cancelled the current season. There will be no promotion or relegation.
Cambur, who are 11 points clear at top of 2nd division are livid.
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Post by rickyqpr on Apr 26, 2020 8:02:50 GMT
Karl Robinson (now Oxford) has published his 'blueprint': Some clubs will go to the wall before football resumes Leagues to be streamlined with smaller divisions, but no regionalization. Instead half of the National League should be promoted to a fifth division (so I guess 5 divisions of about 20) New owners should have to submit a 6 month bond, guaranteeing wages No salary cap at all - allowing ambition once again.
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Post by stylecouncillor on Apr 26, 2020 12:29:55 GMT
I have a question for many on here, and football fans in general. If football comes back behind closed doors. Where do season ticket holders stand? Now not being a season ticket holder I am not affected by this but assuming your owed say between 4 and 10 games on your season ticket depending on your club this is probably a minimum of £100 you are owed by your respective club and perhaps going upto £1000 for a premiership club. Now football fans and sports fans in general are perhaps a special breed. Its safe to assume that no fan is going to want to be the fan that bankrupts their club chasing a refund, There are going to be be fans who can not just right off this money My concerns are that my club for instance are going to lose thousands in revenue and refunds maybe. Anyone for instance think opening grounds to home season ticket holders, even if being half one game half the next sitting one or two seats apart round the whole ground might be a solution though maybe impossible to implement. Without trying to answer my own question Its safe to say Life in general will change when lockdown ends with many People having no jobs to return to and firms simply not coming back from this. Anyone who has lost a holiday or flight during lockdown will know the nightmare of trying to get your money back. This obviously has not happened and so there have not been costs involved, but if football goes ahead and you have bought a ticket and are not allowed in you must be entitled to a refund? And it worries me that football can not afford the refunds
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Post by rickyqpr on Apr 26, 2020 13:55:06 GMT
I have a question for many on here, and football fans in general. If football comes back behind closed doors. Where do season ticket holders stand? Now not being a season ticket holder I am not affected by this but assuming your owed say between 4 and 10 games on your season ticket depending on your club this is probably a minimum of £100 you are owed by your respective club and perhaps going upto £1000 for a premiership club. Now football fans and sports fans in general are perhaps a special breed. Its safe to assume that no fan is going to want to be the fan that bankrupts their club chasing a refund, There are going to be be fans who can not just right off this money My concerns are that my club for instance are going to lose thousands in revenue and refunds maybe. Anyone for instance think opening grounds to home season ticket holders, even if being half one game half the next sitting one or two seats apart round the whole ground might be a solution though maybe impossible to implement. Without trying to answer my own question Its safe to say Life in general will change when lockdown ends with many People having no jobs to return to and firms simply not coming back from this. Anyone who has lost a holiday or flight during lockdown will know the nightmare of trying to get your money back. This obviously has not happened and so there have not been costs involved, but if football goes ahead and you have bought a ticket and are not allowed in you must be entitled to a refund? And it worries me that football can not afford the refunds When QPR in the Community rang me, I asked what was the plan for season ticket renewal / dates, rates etc. and the issue you raise of an unfinished season. The reply I received was that the club believes that the EFL will issue a financial policy statement for all clubs to follow. But yes - the outcome has to be a huge loss of income. That is why some are speculating that certain clubs will not make it to the next season. Even if they did open at some point with social distancing as you suggest, many (like me) will not be able to return until a vaccine is available (hence my questioning when they called - I did not want to lose my seat, but who knows when I will be able to return). Tough times.
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Post by hitmanrangers on Apr 26, 2020 14:33:30 GMT
I thought I heard, before lockdown and games were cancelled, that behind closed doors games would be free for ST holder online TV. Not the same but better than nothing. As for next season, who knows! I am on the subscription/auto renew ST scheme so will be interested to know if they start taking payments as usual?
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Post by terryb on Apr 26, 2020 17:47:28 GMT
I have a question for many on here, and football fans in general. If football comes back behind closed doors. Where do season ticket holders stand? Now not being a season ticket holder I am not affected by this but assuming your owed say between 4 and 10 games on your season ticket depending on your club this is probably a minimum of £100 you are owed by your respective club and perhaps going upto £1000 for a premiership club. Now football fans and sports fans in general are perhaps a special breed. Its safe to assume that no fan is going to want to be the fan that bankrupts their club chasing a refund, There are going to be be fans who can not just right off this money My concerns are that my club for instance are going to lose thousands in revenue and refunds maybe. Anyone for instance think opening grounds to home season ticket holders, even if being half one game half the next sitting one or two seats apart round the whole ground might be a solution though maybe impossible to implement. Without trying to answer my own question Its safe to say Life in general will change when lockdown ends with many People having no jobs to return to and firms simply not coming back from this. Anyone who has lost a holiday or flight during lockdown will know the nightmare of trying to get your money back. This obviously has not happened and so there have not been costs involved, but if football goes ahead and you have bought a ticket and are not allowed in you must be entitled to a refund? And it worries me that football can not afford the refunds I really don't know the answer to this, but I think I can remember Hoos saying that there will be refunds. On a personal level, I can afford to forego any refund, but I would certainly like to be given the choice between refund, donnate the refund to the club or donate the refund to QPR in the Community. The average cost of attending games for me is around £50 (travelling, AKUTR'S & The Defectors Weld) so I'm persuading myself that the break is saving me money! I'm far more interested in what will happen with ST renewals for next season. As an OAP my income has remained the same & I qualify for the ST discount for seniors, therefore I expect that I will renew before the end of May deadline. However, I don't think that the club, laegue etc will know at rthat point when next season will begin, or even how many home matches will be played (I don't rule out playing each club only once), so refunds may well be required for us that have renewed. I realise that I'm very fortunate that I can afford to renew at this time, but I'm concerned for the current ST holders who can't afford to until they know what their future employment status etc is. I really hope that the club allow them to qualify for the earlybird discount at a later date, preferably by renewing before the first game is played being good enough. I also undertand that the club need as many ST renewals paid for as quick as possible for cashflow reasons. It's a very tricky situation for everyone!
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Post by harr on Apr 26, 2020 21:41:58 GMT
SERIE A to resume team training 18/5. Going on the basis we are two weeks behind them, we might be doing the same 1st week June and starting mid June I guess if they think it’s safe enough. Presume behind closed doors. We would be finished mid /end July if they did? Lots of ifs and buts .l.l.
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Post by terryb on Apr 27, 2020 9:46:33 GMT
On the subject of season ticket refunds, I have just posted a query on the non-league forum.
As the FA have voided the season for clubs in steps 3-6 (Isthmian, Southern Premier to Combined Counties division one) are ST holders due a full refund as the matches don't count? They surely should receive a discount for the matches that were not staged, but maybe the clubs/FA will say the season was void, but we're keeping your money!
I doubt that many with a non league ST would want to hurt their club by wanting a refund, but I think the legal position would be interesting!
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Post by Marc on Apr 27, 2020 10:03:01 GMT
Looking at next season's season ticket prices, any pro-rata refund would be between £40-100. Given that the majority of those affected would probably be around the £60 mark, would anybody really be that upset if they didn't get a refund? No-one is going to be in any financial difficulty because of it. In fact, much of it might be offset by the savings in matchday costs (food, drink travel etc)
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Post by terryb on Apr 27, 2020 12:36:10 GMT
Looking at next season's season ticket prices, any pro-rata refund would be between £40-100. Given that the majority of those affected would probably be around the £60 mark, would anybody really be that upset if they didn't get a refund? No-one is going to be in any financial difficulty because of it. In fact, much of it might be offset by the savings in matchday costs (food, drink travel etc) I don't think many would like a refund on this season, but paying full price for next season at present will not be possible for a lot of fans. It would also be unacceptable to charge for 23 games IF it is known before the season starts that there won't be 23 home matches. For instance, IF we were to only play each club once I would want a 50% reduction in the cost. I really do believe that this scenario is a possibility!
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Post by Marc on Apr 27, 2020 13:22:05 GMT
Looking at next season's season ticket prices, any pro-rata refund would be between £40-100. Given that the majority of those affected would probably be around the £60 mark, would anybody really be that upset if they didn't get a refund? No-one is going to be in any financial difficulty because of it. In fact, much of it might be offset by the savings in matchday costs (food, drink travel etc) I don't think many would like a refund on this season, but paying full price for next season at present will not be possible for a lot of fans. It would also be unacceptable to charge for 23 games IF it is known before the season starts that there won't be 23 home matches. For instance, IF we were to only play each club once I would want a 50% reduction in the cost. I really do believe that this scenario is a possibility! Oh, I don't disagree with that at all Terry bt I can't see next season being less than the full 46 games as long the resolution to this season is made within the next few= months. Thev season may start late but I could see more midweek games in order to shorten it.
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Post by terryb on Apr 27, 2020 18:12:44 GMT
It may well be a 46 match season Marc, but I don't think there is a chance that we could watch all of the home matches.
I would be surprised if we are allowed to attend games until January at the earliest & I don't think the price of the ST should include matches you can't go to. Even though I'm on the reduced Senior prices, I would not be happy to pay the currently advertised fees to watch less than 75% of the games, especially when midweek is a reeal bind to get to.
Of course, the FA do have the chance to change the dates of the season to be in line for the follwing winter World Cup.
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Post by rickyqpr on Apr 27, 2020 18:41:02 GMT
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Post by rickyqpr on Apr 29, 2020 8:12:34 GMT
www.skysports.com/football/news/11711/11980286/coronavirus-qpr-chief-executive-lee-hoos-fears-clubs-are-being-pushed-to-the-brinkCoronavirus: QPR chief executive Lee Hoos fears clubs are being pushed to the brink Lee Hoos fears "a tidal wave of comeuppance" could overwhelm those in the EFL; QPR chief exec says "it's a very realistic possibility we'll lose clubs" By Aidan Magee, Sky Sports News QPR chief executive Lee Hoos has warned that the coronavirus pandemic is already pushing EFL clubs to the brink of financial ruin. Hoos, who has worked in English football for more than 20 years and previously held CEO roles at Fulham, Southampton, Leicester and Burnley, describes the prospect of clubs going under within months as "a very realistic possibility". QPR were the embodiment of financial excess during their two ill-fated spells in the Premier League - before shifting towards a more prudent financial model in recent years. The Championship club will not escape the impending economic squeeze though, with the QPR director predicting a "tidal wave of comeuppance" for those guilty of over-spending. "It's pretty severe and it's a double-whammy," said Hoos. "Not only do we have zero income coming in, but the advanced central payments money from the EFL has already been spent. Lee Hoos has a stark warning for English football "If we finish the season behind closed doors, then that will necessitate refunds for season-ticket holders. Then there are those who use the hospitality and of course, sponsors who will need to be compensated in some way. "So not only is there zero income, there's also a huge cheque to write out sometime in the future. At some stage, there is a big wall to be hit with the way everyone is deferring everything right now. "The Premier League is very much propped up by the broadcasting income. It's not the same in the EFL. "We have some money coming in through sponsorship and central payments but the bulk of our revenue is through the gate. "Literally every avenue of our income is shut down, right now. Yet we're still having to pay our training ground rent, pay our rates and pay for our utilities. We are deferring some payments - like to HMRC - and that will eventually result in a tidal wave of comeuppance for EFL clubs the length and breadth of the country. "I don't know how people are going to deal with that. It's going to be a huge problem when the reckoning comes. I think it's a very realistic possibility that we'll lose clubs." 'Football needs a total reboot' QPR were six points off the Championship play-offs and on a six-match unbeaten run before lockdown. They agreed a wage deferral with players on Tuesday. Hoos revealed that some Rangers season-ticket holders had contacted the club to say they would not be seeking a refund on remaining games to limit the financial impact on the club. The US-born CEO sees the current Covid-19 crisis as an ideal chance for football to end an era of reckless planning. "Football really has to look at itself and admit that it needs a complete and total reboot from what it was," added Hoos. "And I mean that every aspect needs to be looked at - including the relationship and distribution models between the Premier League clubs and the EFL. Player wages are going to have to be looked at otherwise clubs aren't going to survive. "Everyone is going to have to take a haircut and some of this money is going to have to start coming back into the game." Football has resisted monetary shocks within the global economy in the time Hoos has been involved in the sport. But he now questions the sport's ability to withstand the impact of coronavirus if it fails to adapt to the latest economic challenge. Hoos concedes wage caps may provide part of a solution to bring clubs' costs under closer control, while also hinting that FIFA's Financial Fair Play rules have not done enough to help the game operate within more sensible limits. "I've worked in the English game for over 20 years now and what I've found is that football has always been insulated from the economic realities of the world," said Hoos. "We've had recessions, we've had the financial crisis. There have been other mini-pandemics like SARS and MERS - but football has always been insulated and the cheque kept coming. "Now for the first time, football has to look into the reality of the situation as it's affecting the sport. "Everybody was chasing that dream, particularly in the Championship - which is a unique product, where clubs have been spending beyond their means to reach the promised land of the Premier League. "And now that their businesses are being hit, the cheques aren't coming anymore. It's a wake-up call that they all need to run their businesses more responsibly - whether that be through wage caps or whatever. "We've tried Financial Fair Play but we're going to need something more drastic than that to make sure football survives." 'Let's try to complete the season' Hoos insists football will do everything in its power to complete the current season, but believes the implications for the next campaign will be felt further into the future."I think from an integrity of the competition standpoint, you have to finish the season. That has always been my priority," he added. "The impact that's going to have on next season is another area of debate. How we address that is probably an even more complex question than trying to finish this season. "Unfortunately, we're no closer to knowing what will happen. The government has said they need their criteria met and right now it's looking to me like the testing regime is nowhere near what it needs to be for us to resume anything. "Even if my club has no chance of going up and no chance of going down, I'd still be a firm advocate of finishing the season.
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Post by stylecouncillor on Apr 29, 2020 11:48:30 GMT
Cheers Ricky. I have to say Lee Hoos talks a lot of sense as chief executives go we do have a good one. Good to see fans who can afford it have contacted the club to say they don't want a refund, Probably the case at all clubs. Also probably predictable from football fans as nobody wants to kill their club.
A big worry is probably going to be players yet again. A player is not really going to be willing to go unpaid as they don't really have the same loyalty again understandable. Its a job all be it well paid. I don't think I am willing to work for nothing even if its for the good of the company. Footballers are the same as everyone else with the belief that this company wont pay me but another company will if you believe in your own worth.
Time will tell I presume if what has seemed to be supporters of a club that seems to have turned a corner and being run the right way pays off. Nobody wants to see football clubs go to the wall, but the blatant bending of the rules especially in the championship needs to be addressed and some clubs living way above their means deserved to be found out. Hopefully if nothing else it levels the playing field and clubs stop trying buy to there way into the Premier League.
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Post by spanishal on Apr 30, 2020 11:28:25 GMT
In my view there are two ways out of this season.
1. If and when the season starts, finish the games and go into a winter or even a Spring break before starting the new season.
2. Cancel the rest of the season and all teams start the next season with the points they already have.
Yes tough on Liverpool and all promotion hopefuls, but pretty insignificant when thousands of families have lost everything included loved ones. Football will have to adapt the same way as any other buisiness and yes some clubs may go to the wall, life from now on will be very different for some time to come.
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Post by rickyqpr on Apr 30, 2020 18:48:00 GMT
EFL clubs below Championship told ‘season unlikely to resume’ due to amount of coronavirus tests needed English Football League players below the Championship have reportedly been told the 2019/20 season will not be finished because of problems concerning coronavirus testing. The Premier League could return as early as June 8 with football chiefs willing to spend around £4million on 26,000 COVID-19 testing kits as part of their plan. The EFL may not resume this season Players will be tested twice to ensure safety as they remain committed to fulfilling the remaining 92 fixtures of the campaign. However, this does not appear to be the case lower down the English football pyramid. The Daily Mail report that EFL players below the Championship have been told that one of the main problems stopping games resuming is the number of coronavirus tests that would be needed. The report also says there is little expectation that any football will be played in June despite plans for clubs to resume training next month. This came as a result of an EFL board meeting on Wednesday. Jamie O'Hara believes the only way forward is to end the season immediately Most Championship clubs are said to be committed to finding a way of resolving the season but support further down the pyramid is waning. If the season were to end then there would be debate on how to determine promotion and relegation. One of the options is possibly using a ‘sporting merit’ system with points per game a viable choice to be usedOne of the options is possibly using a ‘sporting merit’ system with points per game a viable choice to be used. One suggesting is that clubs in the automatic promotion places would go up with no teams going down. This would need agreement from the Premier League. There are also concerns about player contracts with a number of deals ending in June, but there is a possibility of the season running into July, or even August and beyond. talksport.com/football/efl/700954/efl-below-championship-unlikely-resume-coronavirus-tests/
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Post by Roller on May 3, 2020 9:56:13 GMT
Fifa vice-president considers European season based around the calendar year Victor Montagliani said the move would fit in with the 2022 World Cup being played in Qatar www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/05/02/fifa-vice-president-considers-european-season-based-around-calendar/ Fifa vice-president Victor Montagliani has said that moving the European football season to the calendar year is a "possibility to be discussed" in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic which has brought football to a standstill around the world. In an interview with Italy's Radio Sportiva, Montagliani, who is seen as a close ally of Fifa president Gianni Infantino, said the move would fit in with the 2022 World Cup being played in Qatar in November and December. The head of world football's governing body himself has said that football will be totally different when it restarts and that the current stoppage could be a good chance to overhaul the overloaded calendar which is due to run until 2024. "We have the opportunity because the World Cup in Qatar in 2022 will be played in November/December and that could be the idea," said Montagliani, who is president of the CONCACAF confederation. "Here in the Americas, the season is already played according to the calendar year, perhaps it is a solution that could also be used in Europe and Africa, it is a possibility to be discussed at national and continental level," he said. "It is not an idea to be discarded, it can be a solution in view of the next two years and this winter World Cup". A number of European leagues, including Italy, Germany and England, still hope to finish their seasons but doing so could force the start of the 2020-21 campaign to be pushed back. Uefa also wants to finish the Champions League and Europa League. "We had already started thinking about how to set a new calendar from 2024, now with this crisis we need immediate answers," added Montagliani. The idea of a calendar-year season has been put forward before including by Karl-Heinz Rummenigge when he was chairman of the European Club Association (ECA). "Everywhere, be it Germany, France or England, summer is the best period of the year. And that is the season we don't play," he told France Football magazine in a 2013 interview. "In deepest winter, when it is very cold and snowing, we play nearly all the time in conditions that are disagreeable for both players and spectators. It is not logical." ------------------------- Both Terry and I have floated this as a possibility, I'm pleased to see that they are going to consider it as an option.
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Post by Marc on May 3, 2020 10:34:10 GMT
Fifa vice-president considers European season based around the calendar year Victor Montagliani said the move would fit in with the 2022 World Cup being played in Qatar www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/05/02/fifa-vice-president-considers-european-season-based-around-calendar/ Fifa vice-president Victor Montagliani has said that moving the European football season to the calendar year is a "possibility to be discussed" in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic which has brought football to a standstill around the world. In an interview with Italy's Radio Sportiva, Montagliani, who is seen as a close ally of Fifa president Gianni Infantino, said the move would fit in with the 2022 World Cup being played in Qatar in November and December. The head of world football's governing body himself has said that football will be totally different when it restarts and that the current stoppage could be a good chance to overhaul the overloaded calendar which is due to run until 2024. "We have the opportunity because the World Cup in Qatar in 2022 will be played in November/December and that could be the idea," said Montagliani, who is president of the CONCACAF confederation. "Here in the Americas, the season is already played according to the calendar year, perhaps it is a solution that could also be used in Europe and Africa, it is a possibility to be discussed at national and continental level," he said. "It is not an idea to be discarded, it can be a solution in view of the next two years and this winter World Cup". A number of European leagues, including Italy, Germany and England, still hope to finish their seasons but doing so could force the start of the 2020-21 campaign to be pushed back. Uefa also wants to finish the Champions League and Europa League. "We had already started thinking about how to set a new calendar from 2024, now with this crisis we need immediate answers," added Montagliani. The idea of a calendar-year season has been put forward before including by Karl-Heinz Rummenigge when he was chairman of the European Club Association (ECA). "Everywhere, be it Germany, France or England, summer is the best period of the year. And that is the season we don't play," he told France Football magazine in a 2013 interview. "In deepest winter, when it is very cold and snowing, we play nearly all the time in conditions that are disagreeable for both players and spectators. It is not logical." ------------------------- Both Terry and I have floated this as a possibility, I'm pleased to see that they are going to consider it as an option. It's also something I've mentioned on a few occasions. The current crisis vis a major opportunity to revamp the game and bring it properly into the 21st century.
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Post by Roller on May 13, 2020 19:50:27 GMT
EFL: Championship clubs aim for 25 May training date after conference meetingwww.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52651502Championship clubs hope to gain government clearance for a 25 May return to regular training, as part of plans to resume the 2019-20 season. It is understood a target restart of 6 June has been discussed but clubs still anticipate a more likely 13 June date, in line with the Premier League. All 24 clubs held a conference call on Wednesday, after an EFL board meeting. League One and Two clubs will speak on Friday, when the prospect of ending the season seems certain to move closer. The plan for the Championship is still to complete the season, thereby avoiding avoid a potential legal minefield around promotion and relegation if the campaign ends early but the Premier League plays to a conclusion. An EFL statement, released following Wednesday's board meeting, pointed to a need to acknowledge the financial shortfall that would accompany the game restarting behind closed doors. While the resumption of competition would satisfy commitments to broadcasters, the costs related to meeting hygiene and testing protocols, as well as a lack of regular matchday income, have to be taken into account. "The EFL will continue to undertake consultation with our members before the next steps are determined," the statement read. "Current attention is clearly on the immediate next steps, but the long-term impact on the league and its clubs remains as stark as previously outlined, and solutions are still required to fill the financial hole left by the crisis. The consequences of the Covid-19 pandemic will not be rectified simply by a return to play behind closed doors. "In addition, the EFL is mindful of the pressing need for clarity in a number of areas, including the practicalities and timeframes of clubs being able to facilitate a return to training. To address this, clubs have today been issued with the latest draft of the EFL's 'Return to Training Protocols', so that they can prepare appropriately. "However, until all outstanding matters are concluded, including finalising a comprehensive testing programme on matchdays and non-matchdays, the EFL board has informed its clubs that a return to training should not take place until 25 May at the earliest."
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