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Post by bowranger on Dec 30, 2017 17:39:17 GMT
There’s valid reasons for sacking Holloway for sure and there are always managers available who will be happy to be employed, even by us and in the position we are in so that’s not a problem. The issue for the Ollie out campaigners, though, is that our FFP position means we can’t go out and buy the other thing on their wish list; a 20 goal a season Championship striker. These two issues seem to go hand in glove and you can fix one but not the other. For the record, I’m not against a new manager. But it needs to be one who is coming in fully aware that he inherits a bloated squad that still needs more trimming and so he’s going to have to work with what he has. Not a Redknapp figure whose going to want to take the lazy route and go out and buy players that he last worked with six years ago because he can’t be arsed to actually scout lower leagues for gems. The most shocking and disappointing factor for this club at the moment, as far as I’m concerned, is that there’s a good team in there in between all the mixed up jumbled up pieces, but the current manager hasn’t figured it out yet and is so prone to thinking he’s Pep Guardiola that he isn’t disciplined enough to find it and stick with it. There are several players here you can build a damn good Championship team on and they’re all being wasted as far as I can see, If we get a new manager it needs to be someone who has a footballing philosophy, will immediately identify which players we have fit that ethos and will run with it without wavering. Otherwise, it’s just sacking one useless manager for another and we’re back here again this time next year having the same conversation. (There are several players here you could build a damn good Championship team) What about a League One Team? Why are you so absolutely devoid of confidence in QPR based on stats but full of confidence in teams below us who are statistically worse than us? I know you're convinced we are getting relegated and perhaps that will happen but at least be consistent about it.
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Post by Macmoish on Dec 30, 2017 17:52:25 GMT
5 Points above relegation spot after Sat's results www.skysports.com/championship-table2017/2018 Season All tables Sky Bet Championship 2017/18 # Team Pl W D L F A GD Pts Last 6 1 Wolverhampton Wanderers 24 17 4 3 45 19 26 55 2 Derby County 25 14 6 5 40 22 18 48 3 Bristol City 24 13 8 3 39 24 15 47 4 Cardiff City 25 14 5 6 35 23 12 47 5 Leeds United 25 13 3 9 37 28 9 42 6 Sheffield United 25 13 2 10 39 30 9 41 7 Aston Villa 25 11 8 6 33 24 9 41 8 Preston North End 25 10 10 5 28 23 5 40 9 Middlesbrough 25 11 5 9 32 24 8 38 10 Brentford 25 9 10 6 39 32 7 37 11 Ipswich Town 25 11 3 11 38 35 3 36 12 Fulham 25 9 9 7 35 33 2 36 13 Norwich City 25 8 7 10 24 30 -6 31 14 Nottingham Forest 25 10 1 14 33 42 -9 31 15 Millwall 25 7 9 9 27 27 0 30 16 Sheffield Wednesday 25 7 9 9 30 31 -1 30 17 Reading 25 7 7 11 30 33 -3 28 18 Queens Park Rangers 25 6 9 10 26 35 -9 27 19 Hull City 25 5 9 11 39 43 -4 24 20 Barnsley 25 5 8 12 26 37 -11 23 21 Sunderland 25 4 10 11 29 42 -13 22 22 Bolton Wanderers 25 5 7 13 24 43 -19 22 23 Burton Albion 25 5 6 14 17 43 -26 21 24 Birmingham City 25 5 5 15 13 35 -22 20 Last updated: December 30, 2017 5:00pm Key Promotion: 1st, 2nd Play Off: 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th Relegation: 22nd, 23rd, 24th
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Post by harr on Dec 30, 2017 18:24:19 GMT
(There are several players here you could build a damn good Championship team) What about a League One Team? Why are you so absolutely devoid of confidence in QPR based on stats but full of confidence in teams below us who are statistically worse than us? I know you're convinced we are getting relegated and perhaps that will happen but at least be consistent about it. I thought I was pretty consistent, where have I not been? In that I am very worried and with one away win all season and a faltering home form, feel I have valid reason to be. Statistically worse than us for the first part of the season but all better than us bar one over the last 10 matches, which at this stage of the season I feel crucially Important. Bolton were dire the first start of season but continually pick up more points than us of late. Sunderland are Improving under Coleman, winning at Forest, a team we got stuffed at. So who will we finish above Birmingham, Burton and Barnsley ? I will be interested to see how we do at Burton for sure. I hope we turn it around but your right my confidence is waining.
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Post by Ashdown_Ranger on Dec 30, 2017 18:29:27 GMT
Every team below us picked up decent points today... Wins for Brum against Leeds (the most in-form team in the league before today), Sunderland and Bolton, and draws for Hull, Barnsley and Burton. Yesterday we were 8 points clear of the dropzone, now only 5. That said, we've been kind of OK since Leeds, with a credible win at Brum and draws against Bristol City and away at Ipswich. Some key players are getting back into match fitness and/or suspensions, so no need to panic. But it would be really handy to something out of Cardiff on Monday...
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Post by bowranger on Dec 30, 2017 18:51:08 GMT
Why are you so absolutely devoid of confidence in QPR based on stats but full of confidence in teams below us who are statistically worse than us? I know you're convinced we are getting relegated and perhaps that will happen but at least be consistent about it. I thought I was pretty consistent, where have I not been? In that I am very worried and with one away win all season and a faltering home form, feel I have valid reason to be. Statistically worse than us for the first part of the season but all better than us bar one over the last 10 matches, which at this stage of the season I feel crucially Important. Bolton were dire the first start of season but continually pick up more points than us of late. Sunderland are Improving under Coleman, winning at Forest, a team we got stuffed at. So who will we finish above Birmingham, Burton and Barnsley ? I will be interested to see how we do at Burton for sure. I hope we turn it around but your right my confidence is waining. It's inconsistent because you put lots of faith in teams who have consistently been worse than us all season in a way you don't for our lot. Why is this part of the season particularly crucial? Points are worth the same in August as they are in May for one. If a team like Bolton have an uptick in form and are marginally better than us over a short period, a team that have been shown to be consistently woeful, why do you err on them ending up better than us? When we beat the top two, I don't recall the same kind of confidence. And rightly so, too. If you were a Bolton fan, would you feel comfortable saying that they're safe and we are not, or would you be pointing to their crap point per match stats? I have no dispute about the fact that we aren't very good or that we are in trouble or that our record isn't good enough. But it's frustrating for people to hammer on about that and how crap we are while suddenly having inconsistent levels on confidence in teams who, by the exact same metric, are worse than us. That could change for them but it could change for us too.
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Post by harr on Dec 30, 2017 19:04:07 GMT
I thought I was pretty consistent, where have I not been? In that I am very worried and with one away win all season and a faltering home form, feel I have valid reason to be. Statistically worse than us for the first part of the season but all better than us bar one over the last 10 matches, which at this stage of the season I feel crucially Important. Bolton were dire the first start of season but continually pick up more points than us of late. Sunderland are Improving under Coleman, winning at Forest, a team we got stuffed at. So who will we finish above Birmingham, Burton and Barnsley ? I will be interested to see how we do at Burton for sure. I hope we turn it around but your right my confidence is waining. It's inconsistent because you put lots of faith in teams who have consistently been worse than us all season in a way you don't for our lot. Why is this part of the season particularly crucial? Points are worth the same in August as they are in May for one. If a team like Bolton have an uptick in form and are marginally better than us over a short period, a team that have been shown to be consistently woeful, why do you err on them ending up better than us? When we beat the top two, I don't recall the same kind of confidence. And rightly so, too. If you were a Bolton fan, would you feel comfortable saying that they're safe and we are not, or would you be pointing to their crap point per match stats? I have no dispute about the fact that we aren't very good or that we are in trouble or that our record isn't good enough. But it's frustrating for people to hammer on about that and how crap we are while suddenly having inconsistent levels on confidence in teams who, by the exact same metric, are worse than us. That could change for them but it could change for us too. Well the table doesnt lie so over the season so far we are better than Six teams for sure. As stated though over the last 10 games they have all performed better than QPR apart from Barnsley. I'm not really putting faith in the other teams, I would much rather they keep losing week in week out until May but sadly I dont think they all will. Look, Im not going to go on and on about it, we are a horrid run on form that has taken us within five points of the bottom three. Monday that could be 2-3 points if we fail to win again. The form needs to change we both agree on that, we both agree the players are still playing for the Manager and we have decent players in the squad so Ollie and Birch need to do more imo. By the way my comment about League One was stated really as tongue in cheek re the above thread and I certainly dont ever want QPR to drop down to that division if we can avoid it .
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Post by nomar on Dec 30, 2017 20:18:45 GMT
I agree with much of what you say Nomar. However, football management today covers a wide range of tasks but in the end so often comes down to recent results. I was not keen on Holloway's appointment and he frustrates for the reasons you state. But he and Ferdinannd are also responsible for the positives you mention. That core of a team that encourages us all includes 3 almost free transfers in Scowen, Baptiste and Freeman, added to Luongo's much better form and consistency, Manning stepping up when he was half way out the door, the vast improvement in Robinson and then couple all that with the development and key acquisitions for the future (Wheeler, Osayi-Bright, Smyth Oteh, Chair, Eze, Shadipo and Furlong) and I believe that credit should be given where due. Washington has been his biggest problem - talent, energy but poor conversion - had he scored a few, Holloway may well have been a hero - such is football management. I have been a supporter through the good and the very bad days and I think that some patience is required. I grew up on the long tenure of Alec Stock and although those days are long gone, I think even he would have been pleased with the progress above. Results do have to improve and he needs to stop making the same errors, but if a few depart then perhaps, just perhaps we will have enough for another striker. But I seriously doubt that any other manager will hit the ground running to make a difference. My Point is that there’s no magic beans solution here, Ricky. You can advocate to keep Holloway and you can look to get rid of him and make convincing arguments on both sides of that debate. The issue isn’t just about changing managers, it’s about having a football DNA that works. You choose managers that are right for your particular club, who is right for you may not be right for someone else. Unlike many QPR fans on various fan forums, I believe Les is doing a great job considering the absolute sh*tfest he was left with. This will take time to turn around but in today’s ‘want it now’ age time is a commodity very few managers are afforded.
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Post by londonranger on Dec 30, 2017 20:56:31 GMT
Millwall fans blame Holloway for their relegation from Championship.
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Post by harr on Dec 30, 2017 21:01:46 GMT
Millwall fans blame Holloway for their relegation from Championship. Hugely so and with Bircham. Social media from Millwall fans went into a frenzy when he took over at LR saying he would take us down to the same League. Lets hope they weren't correct.
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Post by rickyqpr on Dec 31, 2017 10:09:29 GMT
I think the next couple of weeks will be crucial for Holloway. He decided to front up the aggression at Millwall including the pre-match talk up. Then he got it completely wrong on the pitch. But he is an emotional chap and when he is 'up' he is very infectious and when he is 'down' then he is always likely to abandon ship as he did at Palace and to some extent Millwall. The next 3 games will determine his destiny in my view, he may well walk again, but perhaps events off the park will have a big impact on the future as well. The piece in today's Sunday Mirror says that we are in danger of exceeding FFP again this season and so Sylla and Ngbakoto may be sent out on loan, JET will have his contract ripped up (and move to Southend) and that we may cash in on Smithies, Onouha and Luongo. Nothing in the article that is new or of real substance, with the only quote coming from Holloway about how he has faith in the youth coming through. Interesting that in Fernandes 'Flying High' book he says that it was Ian Taylor who suggested hiring Holloway and that Sir les and Lee Hoos were not keen. The first choice was always Paul Clement. Holloway did not even discuss salary, he just wanted the job so badly.
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Post by harr on Dec 31, 2017 11:02:31 GMT
(book he says that it was Ian Taylor who suggested hiring Holloway and that Sir les and Lee Hoos were not keen. The first choice was always Paul Clement. Holloway did not even discuss salary, he just wanted the job so badly.)
Surely a media man wouldn’t be advising who the next Manager would be?
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Post by rickyqpr on Dec 31, 2017 11:31:56 GMT
Page 195 - 'Ian Taylor who is a sounding board for me said 'Why don't you try Ian Holloway?' Les and Lee did not think Holloway was strategic enough. Whatever you think of Fernandes - it is an interesting easy read but only 2 of the 14 chapters are about football
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Post by harr on Dec 31, 2017 12:47:46 GMT
Page 195 - 'Ian Taylor who is a sounding board for me said 'Why don't you try Ian Holloway?' Les and Lee did not think Holloway was strategic enough. Whatever you think of Fernandes - it is an interesting easy read but only 2 of the 14 chapters are about football Thanks I find that amazing Ian Taylor is his sounding board. Maybe that’s where we are going wrong
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Post by Lonegunmen on Dec 31, 2017 13:09:44 GMT
Unbelievable, only at QPR.
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Post by Ashdown_Ranger on Dec 31, 2017 16:37:45 GMT
Page 195 - 'Ian Taylor who is a sounding board for me said 'Why don't you try Ian Holloway?' Les and Lee did not think Holloway was strategic enough. Whatever you think of Fernandes - it is an interesting easy read but only 2 of the 14 chapters are about football Thanks I find that amazing Ian Taylor is his sounding board. Maybe that’s where we are going wrong ...and, following his pre-match confrontation with Millwall fans, Ollie seems to have taken over social media from IJT: People saying the post is real and on Ollie's 'official' account (I'm highly suspicious of it though)...
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Post by harr on Dec 31, 2017 16:45:42 GMT
What the heck is this ?
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Post by londonranger on Dec 31, 2017 17:01:59 GMT
Swansea have moved off the bottom of the Prem, with their new manager.
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Post by Ashdown_Ranger on Dec 31, 2017 17:43:42 GMT
It's (apparently) what Ollie posted on his Instagram account after the Millwall game, in response to his confrontation with Millwall fans where they all chanted he was a 'c***'
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Post by harr on Dec 31, 2017 20:15:08 GMT
Thanks for clearing that up. Crikey, Bow put the video up for me, they are a bunch of animals. Surprised he is getting involved in this though .
What I did think though, while Ollie was waving his cap to them, was the players had to watch all that going on before they followed him. What sort of frame of mind would they be in after that, was pretty hostile.
For me, I would have suggested he walked as quick as he could and got the players through as quick as he could and not get involved with them but that’s just me.
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Post by bowranger on Jan 1, 2018 10:14:10 GMT
Page 195 - 'Ian Taylor who is a sounding board for me said 'Why don't you try Ian Holloway?' Les and Lee did not think Holloway was strategic enough. Whatever you think of Fernandes - it is an interesting easy read but only 2 of the 14 chapters are about football Thanks I find that amazing Ian Taylor is his sounding board. Maybe that’s where we are going wrong I get him as a sounding board for PR and how the fans and press would react to a managerial appointment. But you wouldn't expect that to be at the expense of Ferdinand and Hoos heh. Bloody hell.
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Post by harr on Jan 3, 2018 7:35:27 GMT
With Birmingham winning last night After 26 games and 20 matches to go, the bottom three teams have 22,23 and 24 points. Last year it was 16 points (Rotherham) 22 and 24 points So exactly the same 24 point safety. Although only fitting for two spaces at the end of last year as Rotherham were gone and we don’t have a team like that this year. You needed 51 points last year with a good goal difference to stay up, so expect will be similar total of 50-51 pts We need about 6 wins and 2-3 draws, then I will be happy.
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Post by harr on Jan 3, 2018 12:39:58 GMT
I doubt you will need anywhere near 54 or 55 that has only happened about twice in the history of the Championship. I think Peterborough or Palace we’re relegated on 56 points. It can happen but feel much likely around 51 will be ok.
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Post by harr on Jan 3, 2018 12:48:05 GMT
Just checked last 10 seasons 51 points and a good goal difference kept you up last year. or say 52 . Then...., 41 , 42, 45, 54 Peterborough relegated, 41, 43, 48, 47, 52 Leics were Relegated
10 year average around 47
3 times in last 10 years needing over 50.
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Post by harr on Jan 3, 2018 15:50:28 GMT
Just checked last 10 seasons 51 points and a good goal difference kept you up last year. or say 52 . Then...., 41 , 42, 45, 54 Peterborough relegated, 41, 43, 48, 47, 52 Leics were Relegated 10 year average around 47 3 times in last 10 years needing over 50. Agreed based on past stats (did I really just say that) but I am just looking at the way all the teams at the bottom are now picking up points. I thought Bolton would be write offs like Rotherham last season but it is not happening and teams like Reading and Wednesday must be looking over their shoulders as much as us. It's already been a season of crazy results even by Championship standards so if a 54 or 55 point cut off is going to happen sometime this season is a likely candidate.
Still lets get 60 points and I will be more than happy. I think that is the target Ollie should be aiming for if he is to demonstrate that good progress is being made on the pitch over the season.
Not a gambling man but even I would bet that Wolves are safe now though and we beat them!
60 points 57 ? What winning 10 from 20, can not see that.( 9 points from last 11 matches but will get 30points from next 20 ?) We are going at a little over a point a game, puts us in line to get 53 points at our current 26 game rate, I don’t get us getting 60 sorry. We only got 53 last year and JFH got a fair few of those and a better average than IH . Thats why we have gone backwards from 15-16(60 pts) backwards 16-17 (53 points )and maybe even backwards 17 -18 If we are not careful in terms of points achieved at the end of season. If you keep going backwards you know what comes sooner or later, these are warnings.
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Post by harr on Jan 3, 2018 20:18:10 GMT
Yeah but don't forget we still have our 7 game winning run to come! Always look on the bright side of life We are good at 7 game runs
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Post by harr on Jan 7, 2018 18:02:56 GMT
Noticed we have some very tough away games 2018
We have 10 more away games to play, 7 of them teams in 1/4/5/6/7/10/11 places . Wolves, Bristol, Villa , Leeds , Sheffield U , Brentford and Fulham.
Only three away games with bottom teams, Reading , Hull and Burton.
Wonder how many of that 10 we can win?
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Post by Ashdown_Ranger on Jan 7, 2018 19:23:51 GMT
Noticed we have some very tough away games 2018 We have 10 more away games to play, 7 of them teams in 1/4/5/6/7/10/11 places . Wolves, Bristol, Villa , Leeds , Sheffield U , Brentford and Fulham. Only three away games with bottom teams, Reading , Hull and Burton. Wonder how many of that 10 we can win? 8 or 9 points form that lot...
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Post by harr on Jan 7, 2018 19:34:24 GMT
Noticed we have some very tough away games 2018 We have 10 more away games to play, 7 of them teams in 1/4/5/6/7/10/11 places . Wolves, Bristol, Villa , Leeds , Sheffield U , Brentford and Fulham. Only three away games with bottom teams, Reading , Hull and Burton. Wonder how many of that 10 we can win? 8 or 9 points form that lot... Well I guess Ashdown, If we could pick up 8 points from those would be ok, would leave us to get 4 wins and a draw or two at home. However, I think we have played 13 away games so far, won just the one and draw a few. Getting about 0.5 points per away game.
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Post by harr on Jan 7, 2018 19:40:09 GMT
1 win, 5 draws, 7 defeats in our first batch of away games that were mostly against lower table teams.
8 points from 39 points .
Not sure if we get 8 points from 30 off teams nearer the top.
Guess it depends what we get at Burton, Reading and Hull
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Post by harr on Jan 8, 2018 12:58:34 GMT
As a comparison with 26 games last year, we had 32 points at this stage not 30 points as current, so we have gone backwards for a further year. We were 8 points clear of relegation spots but was really only 2 team places left to fill.
We managed 21 points from our last 20 matches. If it’s a similar pattern over our next 20 games will finish up with around 51 Pts.
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