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Post by harr on Dec 29, 2017 21:39:43 GMT
Where will it all end. 2 Months and one win in 10 games against the team in 24 th place. Millwall take 4 points off us, lets hope Bolton, Barnsley, Burton and Sunderland dont do the same. Absolute rubbish two months, how Ollie and Bircham are still there heaven knows. Cardiff next, they are on the back of three straight losses, that will soon end then
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Post by londonranger on Dec 29, 2017 21:45:44 GMT
Time for a new manager methinks.
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Post by harr on Dec 29, 2017 21:50:23 GMT
Something has to give Harry. Six points now from Thirty...... The powers at be are probably not paniking due to the points gap we have over bottom three but that could well change when even they start beating us.
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Post by bowranger on Dec 29, 2017 22:37:26 GMT
Still don't think a new manager will solve anything or that there's someone available and affordable who'd do better. Just on the train back from South Bermondsey after police treated us like animals for ages.
Recently we've played alright in spells. But tonight we were just crap to be honest. Tried to play a high ball game against a high ball specialist team which makes no sense. I'm very cold.
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Post by harr on Dec 29, 2017 22:47:35 GMT
I guess changing is a risk but are you confident Ollie and Bircham can keep us up Bow. We are currently averaging little over 1/2 point a game for the last ten matches, this form for another 20 game would see us relegated for sure.
I wouldn’t be surprised if someone at the top starts moving if we lose again Saturday.
Anyhow, well done for going tonight and supporting them there, very good. There was a few on social med stating there was banter going on between Ollie and Millwall fans and saying he should just get concentrated on the game? Did you see anything?
Lots are starting to become a bit disillusioned at the minute.
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Post by harr on Dec 29, 2017 22:52:00 GMT
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Post by harr on Dec 29, 2017 22:55:30 GMT
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Post by bowranger on Dec 29, 2017 23:42:34 GMT
I guess changing is a risk but are you confident Ollie and Bircham can keep us up Bow. We are currently averaging little over 1/2 point a game for the last ten matches, this form for another 20 game would see us relegated for sure. I wouldn’t be surprised if someone at the top starts moving if we lose again Saturday. Anyhow, well done for going tonight and supporting them there, very good. There was a few on social med stating there was banter going on between Ollie and Millwall fans and saying he should just get concentrated on the game? Did you see anything? Lots are starting to become a bit disillusioned at the minute. Not necessarily confident, no. But then like I've said I have no idea who we could attract who is better and likely to do a better job with this team and this budget. I keep saying that and I've yet to see any fan mention an alternative name who would come to us now, with no money. The last few years show us that sacking mid season does not improve us. We can say that Ramsey, JFH, Hughes or whatever were all just the wrong choices...But it's still the same people up top making those choices isn't it? So why would they get it right this time? To me, we've got a hard working lower mid table team that's in lower mid table. People can keep quoting the bad stats over and over and over again but it doesn't deal with the question. Yes, we aren't very good. Statistically. Is that just an issue with the manager? How do we improve it? Sack him anyway, like every other year - where's the positive evidence for that approach working? Managerial changes are disruptive and I'd rather stick it out until the end of the season. I didn't notice Ollie having a to and fro with the Millwall fans during the match but he did pre match. Or rather, he laughed off dozens of Millwall fans calling him a c**t: Worth bearing in mind that the away end didn't turn on him and the atmosphere at games is better than it's been in ages. May be toxic and angry on the internet and don't get me wrong, we were genuinely crap tonight, but it's still a team worthy of our time and support. As a comparison, think of the away end response Ramsey walked past when he was heading for the sack - absolute bile. It's nothing close to tjay. The results may not be much better but the football is night and day compared to 2 years ago.
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Post by londonranger on Dec 29, 2017 23:50:15 GMT
Swansea have changed managers now three times, to avoid relegation from Prem. If we don't get in a big bother about going down and do something, well be in 3rd tier.
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Post by bowranger on Dec 30, 2017 0:05:32 GMT
Swansea have changed managers now three times, to avoid relegation from Prem. If we don't get in a big bother about going down and do something, well be in 3rd tier. That's a twist of an example though. By the same token, all we know is that Swansea have changed manager 3 times and they are still a team struggling around the bottom of the league each season. Ironically not too far away from us. I'm not saying either way, but you can look at the same facts and say 3 managerial changes have done basically nothing to improve Swansea and if anything they're worse than ever. Are Swansea better for it? Ironically, you can look at teams who performed poorly and stuck with the manager and improved. Sean Dyche got Burnley relegated and now they're in the euro spots. Everyone wanted Lee Johnson out at Bristol City and they were crap last season and almost got relegated. Now they're in the play off positions. It's not something we can cherry pick examples about.
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Post by harr on Dec 30, 2017 0:14:33 GMT
I guess changing is a risk but are you confident Ollie and Bircham can keep us up Bow. We are currently averaging little over 1/2 point a game for the last ten matches, this form for another 20 game would see us relegated for sure. I wouldn’t be surprised if someone at the top starts moving if we lose again Saturday. Anyhow, well done for going tonight and supporting them there, very good. There was a few on social med stating there was banter going on between Ollie and Millwall fans and saying he should just get concentrated on the game? Did you see anything? Lots are starting to become a bit disillusioned at the minute. Not necessarily confident, no. But then like I've said I have no idea who we could attract who is better and likely to do a better job with this team and this budget. I keep saying that and I've yet to see any fan mention an alternative name who would come to us now, with no money. The last few years show us that sacking mid season does not improve us. We can say that Ramsey, JFH, Hughes or whatever were all just the wrong choices...But it's still the same people up top making those choices isn't it? So why would they get it right this time? To me, we've got a hard working lower mid table team that's in lower mid table. People can keep quoting the bad stats over and over and over again but it doesn't deal with the question. Yes, we aren't very good. Statistically. Is that just an issue with the manager? How do we improve it? Sack him anyway, like every other year - where's the positive evidence for that approach working? Managerial changes are disruptive and I'd rather stick it out until the end of the season. I didn't notice Ollie having a to and fro with the Millwall fans during the match but he did pre match. Or rather, he laughed off dozens of Millwall fans calling him a c**t: Worth bearing in mind that the away end didn't turn on him and the atmosphere at games is better than it's been in ages. May be toxic and angry on the internet and don't get me wrong, we were genuinely crap tonight, but it's still a team worthy of our time and support. As a comparison, think of the away end response Ramsey walked past when he was heading for the sack - absolute bile. It's nothing close to tjay. The results may not be much better but the football is night and day compared to 2 years ago. Thanks for the that Bow. I get your points, although Im not just moaning about Ollie here over the last 10 games. I think you have to look at it long term and we are getting less points per game than he did for the 30 + games last year. Surely we should be going forwards now, not reverse. Those Millwall fans, uggh. You woud have thought Ollie really would have got his troops up for this one. One away win all season just not good enough Im afraid. Our team might not be great in this Division be but we are better than that states imo.
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Post by harr on Dec 30, 2017 0:18:28 GMT
Swansea have changed managers now three times, to avoid relegation from Prem. If we don't get in a big bother about going down and do something, well be in 3rd tier. That's a twist of an example though. By the same token, all we know is that Swansea have changed manager 3 times and they are still a team struggling around the bottom of the league each season. Ironically not too far away from us. I'm not saying either way, but you can look at the same facts and say 3 managerial changes have done basically nothing to improve Swansea and if anything they're worse than ever. Are Swansea better for it? Ironically, you can look at teams who performed poorly and stuck with the manager and improved. Sean Dyche got Burnley relegated and now they're in the euro spots. Everyone wanted Lee Johnson out at Bristol City and they were crap last season and almost got relegated. Now they're in the play off positions. It's not something we can cherry pick examples about. Anything is possible, look at where Rotherham were a year or to ago with 15-20 games to go. I see most of the teams under us doing better the second half of season apart from Birmingham and Barnsley. Bolton and Burton are improving, Sunderland will improve with Coleman. Not sure about Hull? But anyone that thinks we cant get sucked into this, think again.
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Post by bowranger on Dec 30, 2017 0:27:11 GMT
Not necessarily confident, no. But then like I've said I have no idea who we could attract who is better and likely to do a better job with this team and this budget. I keep saying that and I've yet to see any fan mention an alternative name who would come to us now, with no money. The last few years show us that sacking mid season does not improve us. We can say that Ramsey, JFH, Hughes or whatever were all just the wrong choices...But it's still the same people up top making those choices isn't it? So why would they get it right this time? To me, we've got a hard working lower mid table team that's in lower mid table. People can keep quoting the bad stats over and over and over again but it doesn't deal with the question. Yes, we aren't very good. Statistically. Is that just an issue with the manager? How do we improve it? Sack him anyway, like every other year - where's the positive evidence for that approach working? Managerial changes are disruptive and I'd rather stick it out until the end of the season. I didn't notice Ollie having a to and fro with the Millwall fans during the match but he did pre match. Or rather, he laughed off dozens of Millwall fans calling him a c**t: Worth bearing in mind that the away end didn't turn on him and the atmosphere at games is better than it's been in ages. May be toxic and angry on the internet and don't get me wrong, we were genuinely crap tonight, but it's still a team worthy of our time and support. As a comparison, think of the away end response Ramsey walked past when he was heading for the sack - absolute bile. It's nothing close to tjay. The results may not be much better but the football is night and day compared to 2 years ago. Thanks for the that Bow. I get your points, although Im not just moaning about Ollie here over the last 10 games. I think you have to look at it long term and we are getting less points per game than he did for the 30 + games last year. Surely we should be going forwards now, not reverse. Those Millwall fans, uggh. You woud have thought Ollie really would have got his troops up for this one. One away win all season just not good enough Im afraid. Our team might not be great in this Division be but we are better than that states imo. All good mate. Away end response at Brentford I meant in that reply on the Ramsey point. I don't really disagree with much of that. I don't think it's a good record or that one away win between now and August is good enough. I just don't think, in terms of where we are at as a club, that there's a gettable manager out there that's worth us disrupting us midseason. The problems are bigger than Ollie. The injuries will still be there, we'll still have no money to spend, we'll still have players like Wheeler and Bright learning this level of football, we'll still not be good enough up front. Most of that doesn't change this season regardless and it's a long road. Think we were up for it tonight but think the approach was wrong and a big part of it was Freeman having a rare off day. Games like this show just how much we rely on him and our usual midfield 3 clicking.
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Post by harr on Dec 30, 2017 0:33:32 GMT
Thanks for the that Bow. I get your points, although Im not just moaning about Ollie here over the last 10 games. I think you have to look at it long term and we are getting less points per game than he did for the 30 + games last year. Surely we should be going forwards now, not reverse. Those Millwall fans, uggh. You woud have thought Ollie really would have got his troops up for this one. One away win all season just not good enough Im afraid. Our team might not be great in this Division be but we are better than that states imo. All good mate. Away end response at Brentford I meant in that reply on the Ramsey point. I don't really disagree with much of that. I don't think it's a good record or that one away win between now and August is good enough. I just don't think, in terms of where we are at as a club, that there's a gettable manager out there that's worth us disrupting us midseason. The problems are bigger than Ollie. The injuries will still be there, we'll still have no money to spend, we'll still have players like Wheeler and Bright learning this level of football, we'll still not be good enough up front. Most of that doesn't change this season regardless and it's a long road. Think we were up for it tonight but think the approach was wrong and a big part of it was Freeman having a rare off day. Games like this show just how much we rely on him and our usual midfield 3 clicking. Yeah I fully agree with when Ramsey was there. But things can change quickly. Im not sure what the answer is and we are not going to attract a New Manager with the current funds but if this carries on, do we not want to go down without some sort of fight. I dont think Ollie/Bircham combo is really working at the minute even with the injuries, some of which we have back now.
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Post by bowranger on Dec 30, 2017 0:45:17 GMT
I think the argument gets cyclical at that point, which is why I end up not wanting a change in manager. As you say, you can't get anyone else decent in if they can't shape their own squad which requires budget and it's not like we've got a blank cheque for January to make immediate changes to the squad.
I keep thinking over the last few seasons and the corners we've turned in terms of organisation and strategy and transfer policy and all that. It takes ages. You change manager now and it's another bump in the road where we aren't likely to get much better in the short term. I don't think it's working out well right now with Ollie, in terms of results. But I don't see anyone else making it much better either in the club's state. And like I've bored on about before, I am happy with the positives that have come out of this horrible process of paying for Beard, TF's etc mistakes. More young players. More affordable players. More likeable players. More fight. That does affect my relationship with my team.
So unless some amazing manager comes up who's weirdly willing to work for not much money and not have any to spend then I'd rather stick this out.
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Post by harr on Dec 30, 2017 0:54:29 GMT
I think the argument gets cyclical at that point, which is why I end up not wanting a change in manager. As you say, you can't get anyone else decent in if they can't shape their own squad which requires budget and it's not like we've got a blank cheque for January to make immediate changes to the squad. I keep thinking over the last few seasons and the corners we've turned in terms of organisation and strategy and transfer policy and all that. It takes ages. You change manager now and it's another bump in the road where we aren't likely to get much better in the short term. So unless some amazing manager comes up who's weirdly willing to work for not much money and not have any to spend then I'd rather stick this out. Is it not possible to find a Manager that can spend a small amount of money and get better out the current squad of players. A sort of Warnock but not Warnock We have a lean squad now and from that point of view, things are much better now but going down again would be dreadful with FFP. I think the owners will panic if the bottom five teams are only 3-4 points behind us, then I suspect they will not risk it. I wouldnt blame them either really as its a huge gamble to do nothing if we continue at 0.6 pts a game bottom of form table. Specially if we go out to MK again.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2017 6:23:44 GMT
Like a lot are now thinking.. Sack the manager.. I have been banging this drum since September, OLLIE should not be a manager, come on folks look at his record. Let's stay up and change now, otherwise a relegation battle will be on the cards.
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Post by bowranger on Dec 30, 2017 9:56:26 GMT
I think the argument gets cyclical at that point, which is why I end up not wanting a change in manager. As you say, you can't get anyone else decent in if they can't shape their own squad which requires budget and it's not like we've got a blank cheque for January to make immediate changes to the squad. I keep thinking over the last few seasons and the corners we've turned in terms of organisation and strategy and transfer policy and all that. It takes ages. You change manager now and it's another bump in the road where we aren't likely to get much better in the short term. So unless some amazing manager comes up who's weirdly willing to work for not much money and not have any to spend then I'd rather stick this out. Is it not possible to find a Manager that can spend a small amount of money and get better out the current squad of players. A sort of Warnock but not Warnock We have a lean squad now and from that point of view, things are much better now but going down again would be dreadful with FFP. I think the owners will panic if the bottom five teams are only 3-4 points behind us, then I suspect they will not risk it. I wouldnt blame them either really as its a huge gamble to do nothing if we continue at 0.6 pts a game bottom of form table. Specially if we go out to MK again. I'm not saying it's not possible but we've trusted the board to do that multiple times over the last few years and they've pulled the trigger at this time of the season and it's got us nowhere. By all means, if you can identify that manager then that's interesting but no one has suggested anyone realistic. We do not have a lean squad at all - we have one of the largest squads in the division which hamstrings us because of money going out on wages. Which again, is a result of us thinking new blood is the answer to everything. League 1 isn't good for FFP but neither is team disruption and the inevitable layering of new players and alienating of others i.e wasted wages. As a microcosm, look at players like Borysiuk or Ngbakoto - Ollie doesn't rate them so they don't play football. Fine, but that's two squad slots right there wasted, with us with no money, because frequent managerial changes do exactly that. The MK Dons thing is whatever anyway, we are always crap in the cup.
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Post by bowranger on Dec 30, 2017 9:56:57 GMT
Like a lot are now thinking.. Sack the manager.. I have been banging this drum since September, OLLIE should not be a manager, come on folks look at his record. Let's stay up and change now, otherwise a relegation battle will be on the cards. And replace him with who?
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Post by harr on Dec 30, 2017 11:13:21 GMT
Is it not possible to find a Manager that can spend a small amount of money and get better out the current squad of players. A sort of Warnock but not Warnock We have a lean squad now and from that point of view, things are much better now but going down again would be dreadful with FFP. I think the owners will panic if the bottom five teams are only 3-4 points behind us, then I suspect they will not risk it. I wouldnt blame them either really as its a huge gamble to do nothing if we continue at 0.6 pts a game bottom of form table. Specially if we go out to MK again. I'm not saying it's not possible but we've trusted the board to do that multiple times over the last few years and they've pulled the trigger at this time of the season and it's got us nowhere. By all means, if you can identify that manager then that's interesting but no one has suggested anyone realistic. We do not have a lean squad at all - we have one of the largest squads in the division which hamstrings us because of money going out on wages. Which again, is a result of us thinking new blood is the answer to everything. League 1 isn't good for FFP but neither is team disruption and the inevitable layering of new players and alienating of others i.e wasted wages. As a microcosm, look at players like Borysiuk or Ngbakoto - Ollie doesn't rate them so they don't play football. Fine, but that's two squad slots right there wasted, with us with no money, because frequent managerial changes do exactly that. The MK Dons thing is whatever anyway, we are always crap in the cup. Thats half Ollies problem he doesnt rate too many, put Sylla in that group too. I thought our squad was leaner now. JET will be offloaded and Borysuik and Ngbakato and Sylla as they are not rated.
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Post by bowranger on Dec 30, 2017 12:16:04 GMT
I'm not saying it's not possible but we've trusted the board to do that multiple times over the last few years and they've pulled the trigger at this time of the season and it's got us nowhere. By all means, if you can identify that manager then that's interesting but no one has suggested anyone realistic. We do not have a lean squad at all - we have one of the largest squads in the division which hamstrings us because of money going out on wages. Which again, is a result of us thinking new blood is the answer to everything. League 1 isn't good for FFP but neither is team disruption and the inevitable layering of new players and alienating of others i.e wasted wages. As a microcosm, look at players like Borysiuk or Ngbakoto - Ollie doesn't rate them so they don't play football. Fine, but that's two squad slots right there wasted, with us with no money, because frequent managerial changes do exactly that. The MK Dons thing is whatever anyway, we are always crap in the cup. Thats half Ollies problem he doesnt rate too many, put Sylla in that group too. I thought our squad was leaner now. JET will be offloaded and Borysuik and Ngbakato and Sylla as they are not rated. But that's not an Ollie issue, it's a manager switching issue. All managers have different opinions about players who they rate or not, they bring their own in or alienate others. That's partly their job - what new manager comes in somewhere and tolerates not being able to make their own judgements or assemble their own side? It doesn't and can't work that way. Having a Director of Football mitigates that somewhat but one comes with the other. This is Sylla who he doesn't rate but started last night.? That's likely true for Borysiuk and Ngbakoto but with the likes of Villa and Boro financially doping the transfer market, even if Sylla went too, that doesn't buy you even half a proven striker at this level.
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Post by rickyqpr on Dec 30, 2017 12:48:51 GMT
Bow is correct in my opinion. Holloway makes mistakes but I do not believe that we could recruit anyone any better in our circumstances. He has been evaluating all our striker combinations and nothing has really worked. Any new manager without money would have to do the same. I believe we should wait until the and of season and see if there is any measurable progress. We still have to reduce the size of the squad. The following players are not likely to contribute and are a drain on resources: Borysuik, Goss, Ngbakoto, Petrasso and JET. We also have players like, Lynch, Mackie, Perch and even Onouha who are aging and expensive Lua-Lua and Caulker have also been an expensive drain this year, so any new manager would still have to face the simple economics of our squad thanks to FFP. So who is this guy that everyone sees as sorting this out any better than the current management team?
So much progress has been made in the last 18 months. We do not want to throw that all away. it may be a bumpy ride but survival will suffice. Most of the top teams have struggled playing Millwall this season - especially at the New Den. Last night was poor but not a disgrace. Going to the Den has been a hostile experience going back the circa 60 years that I have supported the Rs. The video said it all. We have some good wingers coming through. Our various striking combinations are usually starved of crosses. Bidwell is not a wing back but he is a decent Championship full back. Wszolek has gone backwards this season. If he would try to beat his man more often, look up and cross he could make a huge difference. Keep the faith guys and get behind the team rather than putting them under even more pressure.
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Post by harr on Dec 30, 2017 13:07:41 GMT
Thats half Ollies problem he doesnt rate too many, put Sylla in that group too. I thought our squad was leaner now. JET will be offloaded and Borysuik and Ngbakato and Sylla as they are not rated. But that's not an Ollie issue, it's a manager switching issue. All managers have different opinions about players who they rate or not, they bring their own in or alienate others. That's partly their job - what new manager comes in somewhere and tolerates not being able to make their own judgements or assemble their own side? It doesn't and can't work that way. Having a Director of Football mitigates that somewhat but one comes with the other. This is Sylla who he doesn't rate but started last night.? That's likely true for Borysiuk and Ngbakoto but with the likes of Villa and Boro financially doping the transfer market, even if Sylla went too, that doesn't buy you even half a proven striker at this level. Hey come on Bow, how many games hasnt Sylla featured since Ollie has been Manager. Im not talking about one game last night. Well we either stick him and keep things settled and hope he keeps us up, which at the minute doesnt look that likely. Or we go for a new Manager into the New Year and hope he can push us up the table. Both options are risky but I back the board on whatever option they choose. If we go down another League, my guess is it wont just be Ollie and Bircham the fans want out.
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Post by Ashdown_Ranger on Dec 30, 2017 13:40:09 GMT
We're part-way through a massive rebuild, losing our biggest earners and those who don't want to be at the club.
Others likely to be on their way are players Ollie didn't bring to the club and who he doesn't rate, for whatever reason.
The overall squad size is being reduced.
I'm pretty sure this as all with the agreement (or by instruction) of the owners.
January window is just about upon us and I suspect Ollie will be able to bring in maybe two players in key positions, dependent on some leaving.
I don't think Ollie will be sacked this season.
Millwall was a poor result, but not the end of the world. With Hall making a comeback, Scowen back from his ban, Robinson recovering from illness I think we'll be in good enough shape to avoid the drop.
Now if we could only only persuade our strikers to tonk a few more in...
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Post by bowranger on Dec 30, 2017 14:07:05 GMT
But that's not an Ollie issue, it's a manager switching issue. All managers have different opinions about players who they rate or not, they bring their own in or alienate others. That's partly their job - what new manager comes in somewhere and tolerates not being able to make their own judgements or assemble their own side? It doesn't and can't work that way. Having a Director of Football mitigates that somewhat but one comes with the other. This is Sylla who he doesn't rate but started last night.? That's likely true for Borysiuk and Ngbakoto but with the likes of Villa and Boro financially doping the transfer market, even if Sylla went too, that doesn't buy you even half a proven striker at this level. Hey come on Bow, how many games hasnt Sylla featured since Ollie has been Manager. Im not talking about one game last night. Well we either stick him and keep things settled and hope he keeps us up, which at the minute doesnt look that likely. Or we go for a new Manager into the New Year and hope he can push us up the table. Both options are risky but I back the board on whatever option they choose. If we go down another League, my guess is it wont just be Ollie and Bircham the fans want out. But like Ricky said above, he's been reshuffling our striking partnerships and nothing has worked consistently. Sylla was booed by one or two people around me in R Block at the last home game which doesn't make sense to me. This feels circular again to me because when we have persisted with players and it's not worked out immediately everyone screams for a reshuffle and players to be dropped, particularly up top. Broken record but it's all so vague - "hope he can push us up the table". Same players, same financial pressures, track record of changing managers mid season when we are lower mid table over the last 4 years and we have barely changed in terms of points or position. People can point to minor differences in points per match averages but you aren't going to change a manager to finish 16th rather than 18th and then deal with the backlog of isolated players and panic buys that accompanies every single managerial shift for the next 2 years - exactly like we are now. It's a huge rebuilding project. And until someone comes up with a prospective, affordable new manager who has a good prospect of improving things long term at the cost of all the disruption it will cause then it all seems moot to me. All problems and no solutions. That's not me saying I have a lot of faith in Ollie, but on balance there's more reasons to stick than rock the boat.
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Post by nomar on Dec 30, 2017 14:53:31 GMT
There’s valid reasons for sacking Holloway for sure and there are always managers available who will be happy to be employed, even by us and in the position we are in so that’s not a problem.
The issue for the Ollie out campaigners, though, is that our FFP position means we can’t go out and buy the other thing on their wish list; a 20 goal a season Championship striker.
These two issues seem to go hand in glove and you can fix one but not the other.
For the record, I’m not against a new manager.
But it needs to be one who is coming in fully aware that he inherits a bloated squad that still needs more trimming and so he’s going to have to work with what he has.
Not a Redknapp figure whose going to want to take the lazy route and go out and buy players that he last worked with six years ago because he can’t be arsed to actually scout lower leagues for gems.
The most shocking and disappointing factor for this club at the moment, as far as I’m concerned, is that there’s a good team in there in between all the mixed up jumbled up pieces, but the current manager hasn’t figured it out yet and is so prone to thinking he’s Pep Guardiola that he isn’t disciplined enough to find it and stick with it.
There are several players here you can build a damn good Championship team on and they’re all being wasted as far as I can see,
If we get a new manager it needs to be someone who has a footballing philosophy, will immediately identify which players we have fit that ethos and will run with it without wavering.
Otherwise, it’s just sacking one useless manager for another and we’re back here again this time next year having the same conversation.
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Post by rickyqpr on Dec 30, 2017 15:26:35 GMT
I agree with much of what you say Nomar. However, football management today covers a wide range of tasks but in the end so often comes down to recent results.
I was not keen on Holloway's appointment and he frustrates for the reasons you state. But he and Ferdinannd are also responsible for the positives you mention. That core of a team that encourages us all includes 3 almost free transfers in Scowen, Baptiste and Freeman, added to Luongo's much better form and consistency, Manning stepping up when he was half way out the door, the vast improvement in Robinson and then couple all that with the development and key acquisitions for the future (Wheeler, Osayi-Bright, Smyth Oteh, Chair, Eze, Shadipo and Furlong) and I believe that credit should be given where due. Washington has been his biggest problem - talent, energy but poor conversion - had he scored a few, Holloway may well have been a hero - such is football management.
I have been a supporter through the good and the very bad days and I think that some patience is required. I grew up on the long tenure of Alec Stock and although those days are long gone, I think even he would have been pleased with the progress above.
Results do have to improve and he needs to stop making the same errors, but if a few depart then perhaps, just perhaps we will have enough for another striker. But I seriously doubt that any other manager will hit the ground running to make a difference.
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Post by harr on Dec 30, 2017 17:05:10 GMT
We will be in the bottom three before you know it, 6 points from 30 is now starting to take us there.
Away wins for Bolton ( much improved team )and Sundeland take note Ollie.(Sunderland look a different team now with Coleman) Birmingham also win.
Draws for Hull, Burton and Barnsley, All picked up points whilst we let Millwall and a Striker that hadn’t score for 25 goals beat us, pathetic.
All of a sudden our cushion starting to go........just five points off drop ...... better get a move on Ollie before it’s to late and you do a Millwall on us.
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Post by harr on Dec 30, 2017 17:10:59 GMT
There’s valid reasons for sacking Holloway for sure and there are always managers available who will be happy to be employed, even by us and in the position we are in so that’s not a problem. The issue for the Ollie out campaigners, though, is that our FFP position means we can’t go out and buy the other thing on their wish list; a 20 goal a season Championship striker. These two issues seem to go hand in glove and you can fix one but not the other. For the record, I’m not against a new manager. But it needs to be one who is coming in fully aware that he inherits a bloated squad that still needs more trimming and so he’s going to have to work with what he has. Not a Redknapp figure whose going to want to take the lazy route and go out and buy players that he last worked with six years ago because he can’t be arsed to actually scout lower leagues for gems. The most shocking and disappointing factor for this club at the moment, as far as I’m concerned, is that there’s a good team in there in between all the mixed up jumbled up pieces, but the current manager hasn’t figured it out yet and is so prone to thinking he’s Pep Guardiola that he isn’t disciplined enough to find it and stick with it. There are several players here you can build a damn good Championship team on and they’re all being wasted as far as I can see, If we get a new manager it needs to be someone who has a footballing philosophy, will immediately identify which players we have fit that ethos and will run with it without wavering. Otherwise, it’s just sacking one useless manager for another and we’re back here again this time next year having the same conversation. (There are several players here you could build a damn good Championship team) What about a League One Team?
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Post by londonranger on Dec 30, 2017 17:34:49 GMT
From reading all these posts seems like theres no help for us.So lets go down and see if we can stay in that league. Or if by a miracle we stay up, we will go through the same mess next season. IMHO (in my humble opinion).
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