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Post by gladstoneparkranger on Aug 15, 2017 0:19:15 GMT
I'm sorry for dragging this up but the defence is still suspect and think that with our plethora of midfielders the three at the back makes perfect sense but if you think our strongest three .. is mid table realistically where we'll end up? Hall back makes defence so much better but would he help shore up enough to dream of challenging for play offs? ... Or ... Are we more worried about scoring enough?
I had us for a relegation battle this year but with our new central midfield combination working so well and results going better than expected , I'm really in two minds but very encouraged by what's happening.
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Post by terryb on Aug 15, 2017 8:10:34 GMT
Our defence is not great, but when you look at other Championship clubs, not many are much better.
Dream of challenging for the play off's? I'm not ready for that yet!
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Defence
Aug 15, 2017 8:14:27 GMT
via mobile
Post by gladstoneparkranger on Aug 15, 2017 8:14:27 GMT
I think the Norwich game will be a good yard stick to where we are at the moment .. A comprehensive win and I will start dreaming.
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Post by bowranger on Aug 15, 2017 9:06:21 GMT
Our defence is not great, but when you look at other Championship clubs, not many are much better. Dream of challenging for the play off's? I'm not ready for that yet! I think the quality of defences in the Championship can be over-emphasised. Some of the top teams have got some real quality at the back but generally speaking, our back line isn't that much worse (or better) than most. Fortunately for us, we've got engines like Scowen in front of them who offer some shielding. Always want to hope for the best but don't see us touching the promotion picture this season and that's ok by me. Think Norwich will probably be a bit much for us tonight but fingers crossed.
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Post by marshbowles10 on Aug 15, 2017 9:36:17 GMT
I've always believed although perhaps I'm a bit old fashioned that the hub of any good team and I stress team is to have 4 spine positions that have better than average players.
The goalkeeper needs to be one that effectively wins points for the team and wins you win or draw against a balance of chances that would suggest a loss. A good keeper in this division could be worth 12 points and in Smithies we certainly tick that box.
The centre half needs to be commanding and inspirational. To be able to motivate and encourage when necessary and get in and fight when the going gets tougher. I'm afraid that Ned doesn't come up to the mark and we'll always be worried about him. Hall seems to be a potential better choice but seems a bit injury prone and the manager needs to concentrate on one position for him....centre half.
The centre midfield is a key position and here I do think we have candidates that can tick the box. Here I'm looking for an intelligent and diligent hardworking box to box player. We can probably perm one from 2 or 3 players.
The centre forward is the final element in my spine. It matters not how many chances they miss, its the chances taken and a 20+ goals a season man is crucial to the success going forward. Being in the right place at the right time for a simple tap in 20 times a season are more important that the 4 screamers a year. Here I think we are lacking.
So in concluding with my own theory on what makes a successful team to be built around, I think we are half way there although my glass at the moment is half full rather than half empty. A focussed and fit Hall might fit the centre back position and maybe playing Washington in his best position may open up those 20 goals. They are still for me 'if's. But in the goalkeeping department and in midfield I think we have just as good a spine as anyone to build from.
So what does this all mean?
To me it means that sometimes it will all click and we'll grind out results and at other times simply we won't. However for sure if we can get this spine in place we'll be in a better position come the end of this season that we were the end of last season and that for me will be progress.
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Post by rousdonhoop on Aug 15, 2017 9:47:44 GMT
I'd rather give the Premiership a miss. When you see Brighton's pathetic attempt to keep the score down against City, you wonder, should we bother?
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Post by bowranger on Aug 15, 2017 11:41:04 GMT
I've always believed although perhaps I'm a bit old fashioned that the hub of any good team and I stress team is to have 4 spine positions that have better than average players. The goalkeeper needs to be one that effectively wins points for the team and wins you win or draw against a balance of chances that would suggest a loss. A good keeper in this division could be worth 12 points and in Smithies we certainly tick that box. The centre half needs to be commanding and inspirational. To be able to motivate and encourage when necessary and get in and fight when the going gets tougher. I'm afraid that Ned doesn't come up to the mark and we'll always be worried about him. Hall seems to be a potential better choice but seems a bit injury prone and the manager needs to concentrate on one position for him....centre half. The centre midfield is a key position and here I do think we have candidates that can tick the box. Here I'm looking for an intelligent and diligent hardworking box to box player. We can probably perm one from 2 or 3 players. The centre forward is the final element in my spine. It matters not how many chances they miss, its the chances taken and a 20+ goals a season man is crucial to the success going forward. Being in the right place at the right time for a simple tap in 20 times a season are more important that the 4 screamers a year. Here I think we are lacking. So in concluding with my own theory on what makes a successful team to be built around, I think we are half way there although my glass at the moment is half full rather than half empty. A focussed and fit Hall might fit the centre back position and maybe playing Washington in his best position may open up those 20 goals. They are still for me 'if's. But in the goalkeeping department and in midfield I think we have just as good a spine as anyone to build from. So what does this all mean? To me it means that sometimes it will all click and we'll grind out results and at other times simply we won't. However for sure if we can get this spine in place we'll be in a better position come the end of this season that we were the end of last season and that for me will be progress. Don't disagree with much of that assessment at all, particularly in terms of the midfield, but I keep wondering where this certain knowledge of Ned not being a leader or motivator comes from, considering people aren't watching within earshot of the pitch in the vast majority of cases? In the cup games, when the atmosphere is non-existant and I'm normally shunted to the paddocks as they've closed Ellerslie Road, I've been amazed at just how vocal Ned is, because you'd have no idea during a regular game. It also contradicts what the players have repeatedly said about him. Even Caulker in the interview following the Northampton game, he cites Ned talking him through the game as crucial for him. Not to mention that we have no idea what his impact is in the dressing room other than that most of our previous managers have persisted with him and wanted him on the pitch, even if it's meant shunting him into the unfamiliar full back role. I dunno if it's cos he doesn't conform to the stereotype of the chest beating CB or not, and I'm not saying it is or isn't true - I'm just saying that I have no idea why people seem to be so sure about something they can't really tell from the stands about.
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Post by egranger on Aug 15, 2017 12:19:26 GMT
Ned appears an easy target - he has been our best defender since he joined the club - reliable, rarely injured or suspended. I am sure IH rates him and won't want to see him leave in this transfer window
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