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Post by Marc on Feb 13, 2016 16:15:49 GMT
Oh come on harr. I know you're hurting but that is just blatantly untrue! JFH has started him in very few games and, from what I heard, he did ok last week. Yep, your absolutely right Fabs, only 13 games, must confess thought it was nearer 20. It wont make me think of him any more as a Player and JFH as a Manager after performances at home like that against London Rivals sadly. 13? JFH started him in 13 games? Don't think so.
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Post by harr on Feb 13, 2016 17:28:21 GMT
Yep, your absolutely right Fabs, only 13 games, must confess thought it was nearer 20. It wont make me think of him any more as a Player and JFH as a Manager after performances at home like that against London Rivals sadly. 13? JFH started him in 13 games? Don't think so. No course not Fabs, thought you meant total, that total inc games Ramsey Etc . He started against Forest 12th Sept, thought he was dreadful that day and pretty much the same ever since. Not just him today though, most of them dire, certainly no motivation from HasselBaink A team with no passion and not even trying for 45 minutes, we dont ask for much, we are used to not winning, 2 wins in 12 says that but performances like that are not justified and if we lose to Bolton , heaven help us.
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Post by nomar on Feb 13, 2016 19:11:25 GMT
Just got back and won't be returning any time soon!!! We have a HUGE problem. Gutless,clueless,heartless,and mainly talentless. I have a feeling already we have yet another duff manager but most of all Sir Les has to go.. Just because he wears a suit now doesn't mean he's suddenly found a brain. Don't preach legend etc etc---as a player I agree. But he is no director of football and no business man as surely he would have sold Phillips for any reasonable offer. I don't see what his role is and what he is bringing to the club and there is no way he has the nous to guide and manage our club through tough times. Mate, I know today's result is frustrating but there's a lot in there that I cannot agree with. Last week we played Ipswich off the park so there is a lot of good stuff to work with here. The problems began long before Les joined and he's an easy target to start with. Its the reason why Harry Redknapp did it, masking criticism of his own inefficiencies by drawing attention to the supposed pointlessness of Les's role. Ironically, Les has been clearing up the excesses of several QPR managers, including Harry, and a clueless chariman, all of whom have bought us a warehouse full of useless sh*te that we can't use and can't sell on either. Its going to take time to do a full clear out but he's started it and a lot of the overpaid drek has gone. Les wants to provide us with the kind of QPR that you and I will be proud of but that doesn't happen overnight. We lose games like this because we don't have enough players who want to give their all for the cause. Its the reason why we are an embarrasment in cup games too, those games are often about passion over talent. This season is lost but I'm confident that next season we'll have a team full of players who are actually proud to wear the shirt and will consider it a privilege to play for this club rather than the players who feel that they are doing us a favour by turning up on Saturday and gracing us with their presence. But Les really is the least of our problems here.
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Post by harr on Feb 13, 2016 20:55:07 GMT
The worrying think is that I would expect most of these players that played today or came on as subs to be in the squad at the start of next season?
Anyhow, onwards and upwards move on to Bolton. Cant play any worse thats for sure. Play as bad as that and Bolton will beat us, that will lead to some interesting reading.
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Post by Roller on Feb 14, 2016 7:12:53 GMT
Fulham pulled our defence apart by constantly passing inside the fullbacks. Onuoha and Hall drifted further apart to try to cover, leaving the middle wide open. Phillips and Hoilett offered no help. Toszer doesn't have Faurlin positional sense and doesn't cover anything like the same amount of ground.
I'd change the fullbacks (which is so long overdue it is ridiculous), pray that Faurlin regains fitness and start El Khayati and Petrasso because I'm sick of the site of Phillips and Hoilett.
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Post by Roller on Feb 14, 2016 7:29:08 GMT
Just got back and won't be returning any time soon!!! We have a HUGE problem. Gutless,clueless,heartless,and mainly talentless. I have a feeling already we have yet another duff manager but most of all Sir Les has to go.. Just because he wears a suit now doesn't mean he's suddenly found a brain. Don't preach legend etc etc---as a player I agree. But he is no director of football and no business man as surely he would have sold Phillips for any reasonable offer. I don't see what his role is and what he is bringing to the club and there is no way he has the nous to guide and manage our club through tough times. Mate, I know today's result is frustrating but there's a lot in there that I cannot agree with. Last week we played Ipswich off the park so there is a lot of good stuff to work with here. The problems began long before Les joined and he's an easy target to start with. Its the reason why Harry Redknapp did it, masking criticism of his own inefficiencies by drawing attention to the supposed pointlessness of Les's role. Ironically, Les has been clearing up the excesses of several QPR managers, including Harry, and a clueless chariman, all of whom have bought us a warehouse full of useless sh*te that we can't use and can't sell on either. Its going to take time to do a full clear out but he's started it and a lot of the overpaid drek has gone. Les wants to provide us with the kind of QPR that you and I will be proud of but that doesn't happen overnight. We lose games like this because we don't have enough players who want to give their all for the cause. Its the reason why we are an embarrasment in cup games too, those games are often about passion over talent. This season is lost but I'm confident that next season we'll have a team full of players who are actually proud to wear the shirt and will consider it a privilege to play for this club rather than the players who feel that they are doing us a favour by turning up on Saturday and gracing us with their presence. But Les really is the least of our problems here. Excellent post Nomar. Les takes a lot of unjustified stick, but he is the first person who has actually tried to address our deep rooted issues in the last decade. It is not a short term project and will be immensely frustrating as we wait for the next transfer window to take the next steps to shed ourselves of the overpaid drek (drek Nomar, drek?) and replace them with his likes of Washington. Having our FFP misdemeanours hanging over our heads like the Sword of Damocles doesn't make life any easier.
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Post by Macmoish on Feb 14, 2016 7:32:07 GMT
Shouldnt dispute Ferdinand needs time to do the job (if he's good enough for the job)
But he should also be judged on who we signed in the last year.
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Post by Roller on Feb 14, 2016 8:43:02 GMT
He needs to be judged on a range of criteria rather than just transfers in; just as the club need to take a holistic viewpoint in their dealings, so do we in our judgement of it.
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Post by marshbowles10 on Feb 14, 2016 11:56:40 GMT
So we lose to Fulham who incidentally had 60% possession. 60% for our home game. Disgraceful.
We can blame this manager or that person on the back room staff, TF……the culprits are all there.
But to lose and not seem to care just isn't right.
The players must take responsibility.
I'm really, really loathed to write this and will be killed by a few, but we need a Joey Barton type character. We need someone on the pitch saying 'This just isn't good enough'.
Ned is a disgrace as a captain, sorry younger posters (yes we always had better players in the old days) but where is the spirit of Alan McDonald screaming at other defenders to do their job, encouraging and motivating?
It's one thing losing, shite happens………... but its another thing not having any professional pride or giving 100% and with the odd exception you overpaid bunch of imbeciles that masquerade as footballers should be ashamed to wear the shirt.
If only, of only you weren't paid when you played like this, you'd care then.
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Post by Ashdown_Ranger on Feb 14, 2016 14:00:10 GMT
Just calming down after yesterdays abysmal display. To my mind, though one or two did kind of OK, not one of our players pitch came out of that game with any great credit, and most were dismal. Absolutely nothing came through the middle, there was just a great big hole where Faurlin should be - boy, was he missed. Polter and Mackie put a shift in, but really, they just weren't good enough on the day, running into dead ends, losing the ball far too frequently. Perch did OK in spells and Smithies pulled off a couple of decent saves. Where Fulham looked up for it, organised and purposeful, we looked like a bunch of schoolkids playing kick-and-rush. Pathetic. Our set pieces were complete cr*p - if Philips can't get a decent cross in from a corner, why not let someone else take it and at least have his height and strength in the box? And there was NO-ONE standing off just outside the box at corners to pick up the loose ball - 4 in the box and vast empty spaces between the box and almost the halfway line... noticed that on at least three occasions. Presumably a management decision? For a 12.30 KO I leave the house at 9.00am, drive to the station, pay a fortune for the privilege of parking in a bit of derelict scrubland among discarded solvent bags, trails of piss and puddles of puke, spend 40 minutes on the 'fast' train to London, another 35 on the tube - only to spend 90 minutes being ritually humiliated by Fulham , before wending my way home. I arrived back at 5.30 - the cat (who has a sixth sense about these things) disappeared sharpish. Eight and a half hours of my life I'll never get back. It's now 2.00pm on Sunday and I'm still a grumpy old sod. I am very seriously considering not renewing my ST for next season...
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Dufster
Neil Warnock
I say!
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Post by Dufster on Feb 14, 2016 14:45:33 GMT
Mate, I know today's result is frustrating but there's a lot in there that I cannot agree with. Last week we played Ipswich off the park so there is a lot of good stuff to work with here. The problems began long before Les joined and he's an easy target to start with. Its the reason why Harry Redknapp did it, masking criticism of his own inefficiencies by drawing attention to the supposed pointlessness of Les's role. Ironically, Les has been clearing up the excesses of several QPR managers, including Harry, and a clueless chariman, all of whom have bought us a warehouse full of useless sh*te that we can't use and can't sell on either. Its going to take time to do a full clear out but he's started it and a lot of the overpaid drek has gone. Les wants to provide us with the kind of QPR that you and I will be proud of but that doesn't happen overnight. We lose games like this because we don't have enough players who want to give their all for the cause. Its the reason why we are an embarrasment in cup games too, those games are often about passion over talent. This season is lost but I'm confident that next season we'll have a team full of players who are actually proud to wear the shirt and will consider it a privilege to play for this club rather than the players who feel that they are doing us a favour by turning up on Saturday and gracing us with their presence. But Les really is the least of our problems here. Excellent post Nomar. Les takes a lot of unjustified stick, but he is the first person who has actually tried to address our deep rooted issues in the last decade. It is not a short term project and will be immensely frustrating as we wait for the next transfer window to take the next steps to shed ourselves of the overpaid drek (drek Nomar, drek?) and replace them with his likes of Washington. Having our FFP misdemeanours hanging over our heads like the Sword of Damocles doesn't make life any easier. No one if their right mind disputes the reasons or need for change. They are well known and agreed, its the execution that's been poor.
The decision to appoint Ramsey was an appalling one....and then to reward failure with a 3 year contract!! Is jobs for the boys.
Its easy to lets players go or sell them...but Austin for £4 Million is a an example of little experience of how to negotiate well....its buying in the right talent that's requires knowledge and experience. The root cause of our problems over the last few years point squarely at our Chairman.
But Ferdinand's performance since arrival....well I think the stats speak for themselves!!
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Post by sharky on Feb 14, 2016 14:55:34 GMT
Sick and bloody tired of this we should have sold Austin in the summer so it's our fault.
There was only one offer for Austin, from Bournemouth and he refused to go so that was the end of that. Not anyone in the Club's fault, let me say it again, AUSTIN REFUSED TO GO IN THE SUMMER!!
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Dufster
Neil Warnock
I say!
Posts: 548
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Post by Dufster on Feb 14, 2016 15:12:59 GMT
We had offers being tabled by WBA and Leicester....It WAS bad business, we were unable to lock him into a contract extension and let him go for a song!
We'll agree to differ on that one Sharky!
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Post by Roller on Feb 14, 2016 15:45:22 GMT
As I understand it the club offered Austin contract extensions on a number of occasions, he wasn't interested. Likewise he didn't want to sign for any of the clubs that were showing an interest in him last summer, he was looking for career progression. In this Bosman era of the game all of the power lies with the players, I don't know what else the club could have done.
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Post by terryb on Feb 14, 2016 16:26:08 GMT
Yesterday.
Firstly we were awful from the first minute to the last. Fulham came out to compete, we came out as if that was enough to win the game. Smithies was the only starter to escape repsonsibility.
However, having said that, the one "positive" from yesterday is that we did try to the end.
The problems were collective rather than individual even though I could point to certain people as responsible for the three goals (none of which was Tozser). This though is irrelevant. It was just a matter of time before they scored & it could have been anyone that was culpable.
The amount of passes that were played inside our full backs were numerous & all caused us problems. Perhaps the positioning of Perch & Konchesky was questionable, but they received no cover from the centre backs or the wide men in front of them. Perhaps Hall & Onohua could not give cover as they were struggling to cope with no cover in front of them. Whatecver the reason, defensively this was the worst I've seen us since away to Tottenham last season!
With hindsight, the team selection was probably wrong, but I don't think too many argued against the starting eleven if Faurlin & Washington were not fit to play all game. Yes, I would have picked Tozser. This would have been solely based on his performance against Ipswich. Mind you, if we hadn't loaned out Doughty he would have been my preference. However, he was attrocious & his lack of performance had a direct effect on Luongo.
Now to something more contentious! Jamie Mackie. As everyone would expect, Mackie gave us 100% for every minute of the game. What his appearance on the pitch also did was disrupt Polter, Philips & Hoillet. I'm afraid he doesn't fit in with the rest of the side. El Khayati(sp)was out best outfield player & I hope he is rewarded with a starting place next week instead of one of our usual wide men.
Finally, to answer Jimbo Rangers on not606. What does the "over rated" Ale Faurlin give to this team? Yesterday gave the answer more succinctly than I ever could!
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Post by harr on Feb 14, 2016 21:11:38 GMT
Tony still pretty positive, which is good when a new Manager has won just two of fourteen games.
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Post by nomar on Feb 14, 2016 21:57:52 GMT
Tony still pretty positive, which is good when a new Manager has won just two of fourteen games.
This clown's where you need to be directing your anger at, not Les or JFH. Well, not just him, previous owners and board members too.
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Post by harr on Feb 14, 2016 22:22:02 GMT
Tony still pretty positive, which is good when a new Manager has won just two of fourteen games.
This clown's where you need to be directing your anger at, not Les or JFH. Well, not just him, previous owners and board members too. Maybe Birch has a point too Nomar?
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Post by nomar on Feb 15, 2016 6:28:12 GMT
This clown's where you need to be directing your anger at, not Les or JFH. Well, not just him, previous owners and board members too. Maybe Birch has a point too Nomar? That goes without saying, Harr.
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Post by Lonegunmen on Feb 15, 2016 8:08:30 GMT
I'd like to thank QPR. They saved me a bundle of money. Here I was, about to subscribe to Sky Sports NZ at $28.20 NZD per month about 3 hours before Kick off as I have been missing watching live football. But for some reason I decided not to and I have saved my self a long commitment of money and avoided being humiliated by yet another piss poor performance.
So thanks QPR, I now know that I don't need to get in debt and to not be humiliated watching you.
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Post by harr on Feb 15, 2016 9:21:43 GMT
They still look like a rabble of a team at times. That was not a good Fulham team, only 3 away wins pryor to beating us and hardly a win for them in 2016. Whilst we continue to play games like this at home I will have little confidence in Hasselbaink.
I wish I left my yearly prediction at 15th instead of changing it to 12 th or whatever I changed it to when Charlie and the others stayed. Just need Rotherham,Charlton and Bolton to keep losing.
If that team turns up at Bolton though who are the worse team in the League, I fear even they could turn us over.
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Post by nomar on Feb 15, 2016 12:47:21 GMT
They still look like a rabble of a team at times. That was not a good Fulham team, only 3 away wins pryor to beating us and hardly a win for them in 2016. Whilst we continue to play games like this at home I will have little confidence in Hasselbaink. I wish I left my yearly prediction at 15th instead of changing it to 12 th or whatever I changed it to when Charlie and the others stayed. Just need Rotherham,Charlton and Bolton to keep losing. If that team turns up at Bolton though who are the worse team in the League, I fear even they could turn us over. Bolton are on a run at the moment and another team prepared to lose a tooth to knock out one of ours. Not the kind of games this lot usually are up for. Personally, I'd seriously consider never playing Hoilett or Phillips again. I genuinely have no interest in seeing guys who clearly have talent and should be tearing it up at this level giving us one good game in 10. If we're lucky! The criticism of TF and his predecessors is worthy. Not really so for Les but that goes with the territory. Still, on the bright side, I'm looking forward to locking horns with Villa again next season!
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Post by nomar on Feb 15, 2016 12:50:13 GMT
Is Whittingham's brutal autopsy of Saturdays latest derby day low ready to read yet?
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Post by dorsetqpr on Feb 15, 2016 13:15:42 GMT
Has anybody heard any thoughts from jfh on the game? I haven't. No doubt it will be the same starting eleven against Bolton.
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Post by sharky on Feb 15, 2016 13:18:25 GMT
They're on the Offie mate
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Post by harr on Feb 15, 2016 13:43:06 GMT
Is Whittingham's brutal autopsy of Saturdays latest derby day low ready to read yet? Not sure but I read and listened to all the articles from the players saying it was payback time for Craven cottage and they knew what it meant to the fans losing like that in September and we will be up for it blah blah blah. Remarkable really all that talk and hot air and play 45 minutes again like they did on Saturday At Hasselbainks current rate, we should get two more wins before the seasons out. I look forward to them. Probably Charlton and Bristol City
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Post by Roller on Feb 16, 2016 7:40:57 GMT
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Post by bowranger on Feb 16, 2016 11:23:59 GMT
As I understand it the club offered Austin contract extensions on a number of occasions, he wasn't interested. Likewise he didn't want to sign for any of the clubs that were showing an interest in him last summer, he was looking for career progression. In this Bosman era of the game all of the power lies with the players, I don't know what else the club could have done. Agree - I've frequently thrown criticisms at the club for our transfer policy but I can't really fault them for the Austin transfer. Interest was shown in him last summer - much of it not firm in the form of offers - and Austin didn't want to go (he's got a contract) and the figures being banded around were taking the piss. It made sense for him to ride out his contract as more clubs would take a punt on him on a free next summer and he could negotiate more lucrative personal terms (signing on fee in lieu of transfer fee etc.) - more money, more options. Then Southampton came in - that was the move Austin wanted as it's a top half, competitive prem team that wouldn't require him to uproot his family. By which point, any idea of us getting promoted had evaporated, but we don't look like going down either - so Austin's value to us depreciated (i.e. he could be the difference of shifting us up a few places in the table, but it's still mid-table - he wasn't a component in a promotion push that had disappeared. Hence why Boro spent highly in January - the contextual value of buying in players in relation to promotion money plays a role). So you either keep a potentially unsettled Austin for half a season and let him go for free, or you take the opportunity to get some money in whilst you can and give him the move he actually wants. He had the opportunity to extend his contract and he declined, which is fair enough. His contract stayed the same but our context and the options he faced changed. It's not ideal, but I understand it. The broader issue is that it sends a good message to new players in terms of QPR being a stepping stone and facing up to the kind of team we are right now. It says to potential players that if you do well at QPR, if we don't go up, you could be picked up by a premier league side and we won't stand in your way if the move makes sense or push you to sign for a team you don't fancy if the money isn't right. I'd have loved Charlie to stay. Weird as it sounds though, £10m from a club the player doesn't want to go to for a player going into a new Championship season with a year on his contract is worse contextual value than £4m for a player with half a year on his contract facing an offer from a club he really wants to sign for. There'd have been murders in the summer if we flogged him for below his market value. Now the reality has finally set in that we aren't chasing promotion this season, the context changed - for us and the Austin transfer.
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Post by bowranger on Feb 16, 2016 11:52:28 GMT
Yesterday. Firstly we were awful from the first minute to the last. Fulham came out to compete, we came out as if that was enough to win the game. Smithies was the only starter to escape repsonsibility. However, having said that, the one "positive" from yesterday is that we did try to the end. The problems were collective rather than individual even though I could point to certain people as responsible for the three goals (none of which was Tozser). This though is irrelevant. It was just a matter of time before they scored & it could have been anyone that was culpable. The amount of passes that were played inside our full backs were numerous & all caused us problems. Perhaps the positioning of Perch & Konchesky was questionable, but they received no cover from the centre backs or the wide men in front of them. Perhaps Hall & Onohua could not give cover as they were struggling to cope with no cover in front of them. Whatecver the reason, defensively this was the worst I've seen us since away to Tottenham last season! With hindsight, the team selection was probably wrong, but I don't think too many argued against the starting eleven if Faurlin & Washington were not fit to play all game. Yes, I would have picked Tozser. This would have been solely based on his performance against Ipswich. Mind you, if we hadn't loaned out Doughty he would have been my preference. However, he was attrocious & his lack of performance had a direct effect on Luongo. Now to something more contentious! Jamie Mackie. As everyone would expect, Mackie gave us 100% for every minute of the game. What his appearance on the pitch also did was disrupt Polter, Philips & Hoillet. I'm afraid he doesn't fit in with the rest of the side. El Khayati(sp)was out best outfield player & I hope he is rewarded with a starting place next week instead of one of our usual wide men. Finally, to answer Jimbo Rangers on not606. What does the "over rated" Ale Faurlin give to this team? Yesterday gave the answer more succinctly than I ever could! Excellent reasoned post and I have to agree 100%
Just to add a few points, I think the players on the pitch are the ones who have to take responsibility for that performance. They are the same players who took on Ipswich and were unbeaten for 5 games. Some of the attackes being launched against the owners and management on here since Saturday are over the top imo.
Still first key issue is we have no on field leadership. I posted this a couple of times before and will repeat it - Ned is not a leader and I cannot see we have anyone on the pitch who will pick up the pieces and have a go at the others when it is needed. Smithies is the only one who opens his mouth.
Our problem on Saturday was that Luongo and Tozser were hung out to dry. Fulham played 3 strong experienced (at PL level) midfielders who would have given our 2 a bad time anyway. They included Parker as a leader doing what a Barton type could have done for us. Plus then had 2 overlapping wingbacks who were given freedom of the park to get behind our midfield.
Phillips and Hoilett should have been the people to stop their wing backs. Firstly by dropping back and getting between them and our goal. Most of the game at best they were trotting along 5 yards behind the wing backs leaving our full backs completely exposed. The other method of course would have been for our wingers to push the wing backs back by holding the ball and attacking - more on that below; One of the reasons they did not do that was a lack of service. Polters real ability showed through and he was unable to win, hold or lay off any ball played forward. Add the fact that Mackie was all over the place, literally, and we had no hope of moving forward. As TerryB said Mackie gave 100% but his effort is totally misguided. Chasing down their goalkeeper and defenders in lost causes was a total waste of effort and I'm afraid to say he looked like a proverbial headless chicken. If he had used that energy to sit on Parker or Crainey things might have been different. I do not think it is co-incidence that our worst performances this season have come in the games that Mackie has started
JFH can train the players forever but if they do not do their job on the pitch and do not do what they have been trained to do he is fighting a lost cause. So how did JFH do.
At half time the switch of Washington for Polter was 100% correct. Washington suffered from the same lack of service but at least he demonstrates some skill. Then the latter part of the game changed completely when El Khayiti and Chery were introduced. When they came on they showed the energy and commitment that was missing from Hoilett and Phillips. They chased back but more importantly when they got the ball they were able to hold it pass it and push back Fulham's wing backs. My only criticism of those substitutions were that I would have taken Mackie off and pushed Phillips more forward and central, and that Chery coming on was held back for 10 minutes after a strong negative crowd reaction to Tozser slicing a clearance.
At the end of the game we scored and only a couple of excellent saves from the Fulham keeper stopped us from a totally undeserved "decent" scoreline or even a point even though we still left gaps at the back. A depressing day again against our local rivals but time to look forward.
My question is whether for the next game JFH will go back to near the starting 11 of the Fulham game or whether he will have the nerve to start with Washington, El Khayiti, Chery
Yeah agree with most of these two posts, very well reasoned. I'd add in that what concerns me is how fans attribute weight to some performances over others. We looked as good as we have done for months on end against Ipswich and we looked absolutely abject against Fulham. Both games of 90 minutes of football, both with things to learn from, particularly for JFH. We're not talking about tearing up the table after Ipswich so why are we talking about tumbling down the table because of Fulham? Fulham have dicked us almost every time in the last few years and those games have not been a micro-cosm of our entire season. Not sure why Les is getting so much flack. For one, as other have said, his job is a holistic one about policy at the club - a cultural shift that takes years to impact. Transfer policy is part of that and his role in that should be evaluated, definitely. Konchevsky has been poor almost the entire season and just looks a poor, panicked signing. Perch has been poor too - though I have zero idea who this player is compared to the one we seemed to be buying from Wigan. Ditto for Tozser, who many Watford fans were sad to see go but looks devoid of confidence here beyond a decent showing against Ipswich. In mitigation for Perch and Konchevsky, it's not easy when you are being doubled up on all game and being offered less than zero support from Hoilett and Phillips. But either way, I'm not sure why people are laying stuff at Les' feet for another crap performance against Fulham. What I would say you could draw from it is our performances in derby games. Mentality has to be a huge part of it - we have gone missing in derby games for years now, bar some incredible performances against Chelsea, and that's a big problem that takes a long time to fix and instil. Hopefully that's something that JFH can sort out, who knows? But it doesn't get fixed in a few months when it's been a problem for years. Was particularly disappointed with Onouha in that regard. He's had a decent season but seeing a player direct 90% of his ire to the ref (who, to be fair, was crap) and not his team was frustrating and worrying. In terms of JFH, the concerns I come out with are preparation and reacting to situations. As Clive says on LFW, this shouldn't have been a shocked - Fulham dismantled us in the same way last time and targeted our weak points. During the game, we barely reacted to that. They had an extra man in midfield and we did not add one to combat that - either by shifting our setup or by players like Phillips and Hoilett putting in the requisite effort to shut down Parker starting attacks. At a push, maybe that's why Mackie was picked? But that didn't work. Polter coming off was the right move - he can bully defences and he is getting better at battling but he was getting zero change out of Dan Burn in the air, who is gigantic. Dare I say it, even Henry coming on to shore things up may have been a better move to settle the middle? But he may well have had a mare, hard to tell. But yeah, absolutely awful game. We were crap, the referee was crap and McCormack running to R block to take the piss had the desired affect on me, that's for sure. My conclusion is simply that this game highlights problems that have been around for a while and desperately need addressing. By the same token, games like the Ipswich one have given me lots to be hopeful about to. My only hope is that, now that this season seems to have been binned off for mid-table and assessing things, that we learn something from it ready for summer.
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Post by nomar on Feb 17, 2016 8:02:36 GMT
Excellent reasoned post and I have to agree 100%
Just to add a few points, I think the players on the pitch are the ones who have to take responsibility for that performance. They are the same players who took on Ipswich and were unbeaten for 5 games. Some of the attackes being launched against the owners and management on here since Saturday are over the top imo.
Still first key issue is we have no on field leadership. I posted this a couple of times before and will repeat it - Ned is not a leader and I cannot see we have anyone on the pitch who will pick up the pieces and have a go at the others when it is needed. Smithies is the only one who opens his mouth.
Our problem on Saturday was that Luongo and Tozser were hung out to dry. Fulham played 3 strong experienced (at PL level) midfielders who would have given our 2 a bad time anyway. They included Parker as a leader doing what a Barton type could have done for us. Plus then had 2 overlapping wingbacks who were given freedom of the park to get behind our midfield.
Phillips and Hoilett should have been the people to stop their wing backs. Firstly by dropping back and getting between them and our goal. Most of the game at best they were trotting along 5 yards behind the wing backs leaving our full backs completely exposed. The other method of course would have been for our wingers to push the wing backs back by holding the ball and attacking - more on that below; One of the reasons they did not do that was a lack of service. Polters real ability showed through and he was unable to win, hold or lay off any ball played forward. Add the fact that Mackie was all over the place, literally, and we had no hope of moving forward. As TerryB said Mackie gave 100% but his effort is totally misguided. Chasing down their goalkeeper and defenders in lost causes was a total waste of effort and I'm afraid to say he looked like a proverbial headless chicken. If he had used that energy to sit on Parker or Crainey things might have been different. I do not think it is co-incidence that our worst performances this season have come in the games that Mackie has started
JFH can train the players forever but if they do not do their job on the pitch and do not do what they have been trained to do he is fighting a lost cause. So how did JFH do.
At half time the switch of Washington for Polter was 100% correct. Washington suffered from the same lack of service but at least he demonstrates some skill. Then the latter part of the game changed completely when El Khayiti and Chery were introduced. When they came on they showed the energy and commitment that was missing from Hoilett and Phillips. They chased back but more importantly when they got the ball they were able to hold it pass it and push back Fulham's wing backs. My only criticism of those substitutions were that I would have taken Mackie off and pushed Phillips more forward and central, and that Chery coming on was held back for 10 minutes after a strong negative crowd reaction to Tozser slicing a clearance.
At the end of the game we scored and only a couple of excellent saves from the Fulham keeper stopped us from a totally undeserved "decent" scoreline or even a point even though we still left gaps at the back. A depressing day again against our local rivals but time to look forward.
My question is whether for the next game JFH will go back to near the starting 11 of the Fulham game or whether he will have the nerve to start with Washington, El Khayiti, Chery
Yeah agree with most of these two posts, very well reasoned. I'd add in that what concerns me is how fans attribute weight to some performances over others. We looked as good as we have done for months on end against Ipswich and we looked absolutely abject against Fulham. Both games of 90 minutes of football, both with things to learn from, particularly for JFH. We're not talking about tearing up the table after Ipswich so why are we talking about tumbling down the table because of Fulham? Fulham have dicked us almost every time in the last few years and those games have not been a micro-cosm of our entire season. Not sure why Les is getting so much flack. For one, as other have said, his job is a holistic one about policy at the club - a cultural shift that takes years to impact. Transfer policy is part of that and his role in that should be evaluated, definitely. Konchevsky has been poor almost the entire season and just looks a poor, panicked signing. Perch has been poor too - though I have zero idea who this player is compared to the one we seemed to be buying from Wigan. Ditto for Tozser, who many Watford fans were sad to see go but looks devoid of confidence here beyond a decent showing against Ipswich. In mitigation for Perch and Konchevsky, it's not easy when you are being doubled up on all game and being offered less than zero support from Hoilett and Phillips. But either way, I'm not sure why people are laying stuff at Les' feet for another crap performance against Fulham. What I would say you could draw from it is our performances in derby games. Mentality has to be a huge part of it - we have gone missing in derby games for years now, bar some incredible performances against Chelsea, and that's a big problem that takes a long time to fix and instil. Hopefully that's something that JFH can sort out, who knows? But it doesn't get fixed in a few months when it's been a problem for years. Was particularly disappointed with Onouha in that regard. He's had a decent season but seeing a player direct 90% of his ire to the ref (who, to be fair, was crap) and not his team was frustrating and worrying. In terms of JFH, the concerns I come out with are preparation and reacting to situations. As Clive says on LFW, this shouldn't have been a shocked - Fulham dismantled us in the same way last time and targeted our weak points. During the game, we barely reacted to that. They had an extra man in midfield and we did not add one to combat that - either by shifting our setup or by players like Phillips and Hoilett putting in the requisite effort to shut down Parker starting attacks. At a push, maybe that's why Mackie was picked? But that didn't work. Polter coming off was the right move - he can bully defences and he is getting better at battling but he was getting zero change out of Dan Burn in the air, who is gigantic. Dare I say it, even Henry coming on to shore things up may have been a better move to settle the middle? But he may well have had a mare, hard to tell. But yeah, absolutely awful game. We were crap, the referee was crap and McCormack running to R block to take the piss had the desired affect on me, that's for sure. My conclusion is simply that this game highlights problems that have been around for a while and desperately need addressing. By the same token, games like the Ipswich one have given me lots to be hopeful about to. My only hope is that, now that this season seems to have been binned off for mid-table and assessing things, that we learn something from it ready for summer. Pretty much how I feel, Bow. I'm optimistic for next season. Les is here for the right reasons and I believe JFH is too. I think they are both on the same page about where they want QPR to be and what kind of club we want to be again. But it takes time to get there and we all need to be patient to see this thing through.
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