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Post by Bushman on Mar 31, 2013 21:43:19 GMT
Labour MP David Miliband has resigned from the board of Sunderland FC because of new manager Paolo Di Canio's "past political statements". Mr Di Canio has previously claimed to be "a fascist, not a racist". The former UK foreign secretary was serving as the club's vice-chairman and as a non-executive director. Mr Miliband wished the club "all success in the future. It is a great institution that does a huge amount for the North East". Mr Di Canio was pictured in 2005 making a raised-arm salute to a group of supporters of Italian club Lazio, where he was playing. He was given a one-match ban and fined £7,000 for the incident, and was also banned for a match following a similar incident earlier in 2005. In 2011, when Mr Di Canio was appointed as Swindon Town's manager, the GMB union withdrew its sponsorship of the club, citing his political views. Mr Di Canio scored 48 goals in 118 appearances for West Ham after joining the London club for £1.7m from Sheffield Wednesday in 1999. He began his career at Lazio, and also played for Juventus, Napoli, AC Milan, Celtic and Charlton before later returning to Lazio. Playing for Sheffield Wednesday in 1998, he pushed referee Paul Alcock to the ground after being sent off and was banned for 11 matches. Mr Miliband joined the Sunderland board in February 2011, retiring from frontline politics after losing the Labour leadership race to his brother Ed. He had already said this week that he was quitting as South Shields MP to take up a role with the International Rescue Committee in New York. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21991812
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Post by cpr on Mar 31, 2013 22:19:29 GMT
Typical politician, never miss an opportunity, he happens to be moving to the USofA, has resigned politically but this was not a chance to pass up. Not that I disagree with him but I wonder how much Sunderland were helping to mint him. Can't wait for Bramble to knock him out after he gets a slap round the head for being shit. After all, Bramble's got away with being shit for years! Gets his wish to manage in the championship though!
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Post by cpr on Mar 31, 2013 22:32:00 GMT
By the way, small point, he isn't manager, he is head coach.
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Post by sharky on Mar 31, 2013 23:44:17 GMT
What's the facist name for manager/head coach? One arm bandit?!
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Post by hadders on Apr 1, 2013 0:10:49 GMT
Shame on Sunderland, and good for Milliband. I would sit out going to Rangers for a while if this well-known fascist ever became our manager. Giving Nazi salutes to racist fans? Even if he was the best manager in Europe, he wouldn`t be welcome at my club.
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Post by sharky on Apr 1, 2013 3:07:14 GMT
Shame on Sunderland, and good for Milliband. I would sit out going to Rangers for a while if this well-known fascist ever became our manager. Giving Nazi salutes to racist fans? Even if he was the best manager in Europe, he wouldn`t be welcome at my club.
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obk
Dave Sexton
Posts: 1,516
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Post by obk on Apr 1, 2013 11:37:31 GMT
Shame on Sunderland, and good for Milliband. I would sit out going to Rangers for a while if this well-known fascist ever became our manager. Giving Nazi salutes to racist fans? Even if he was the best manager in Europe, he wouldn`t be welcome at my club.
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Post by canadaranger on Apr 1, 2013 11:44:57 GMT
International Rescue? Milibands are GO!
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Post by cpr on Apr 1, 2013 11:46:27 GMT
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Post by Macmoish on Apr 1, 2013 16:08:27 GMT
Bbc
Paolo Di Canio: Sunderland manager hurt by fascist claims
Paolo Di Canio says he is hurt by his portrayal in the media since becoming Sunderland manager. The Italian was appointed boss of the struggling Premier League club on Sunday following the dismissal of previous incumbent Martin O'Neill. Di Canio, 44, apologised for causing offence with statements of a political nature but said he had been misquoted. "Of course it hurts because people try to take your dignity and that is not fair," said Di Canio in a statement. "I don't have a problem with anyone. I don't know why I have to keep repeating my story, to be defending myself on something that doesn't belong to me every time I change clubs." Ex-foreign secretary David Miliband resigned from the board of Sunderland because of Di Canio's "past political statements" but chief executive Margaret Byrne denied Di Canio was a fascist or a racist. "Naturally it's been very disappointing to read some of the reaction to Paolo's appointment in the last 24 hours," said Byrne. Play media
Di Canio's managerial philosophy "To accuse him now, as some have done, of being a racist or having fascist sympathies is insulting not only to him but to the integrity of this football club." Di Canio reportedly called fascist dictator Mussolini "a very principled ethical individual" who was "deeply misunderstood". In 2005, he was pictured making a raised-arm salute to a group of supporters of Roman club Lazio, for whom he was a player. "What I can say is that if someone is hurt, I am sorry," added Di Canio. "I expressed an opinion in an interview many years ago. Some pieces were taken for media convenience. They took my expression in a very, very negative way. "But it was a long conversation and a long interview. It was not fair. "Talk about racism? That is absolutely stupid, stupid and ridiculous. The people who know me can change that idea quickly. When I was in England my best friends were [black England players] Trevor Sinclair and Chris Powell, the Charlton manager - they can tell you everything about my character. "I don't want to talk about politics because it's not my area. We are not in the Houses of Parliament, we are in a football club. I want to talk about sport. I want to talk about football." Added Byrne: "It is disappointing that some people are trying to turn the appointment of a head coach into a political circus." Di Canio first came to Britain as a player in 1996 when he joined Celtic, and followed his time in Glasgow with spells at Sheffield Wednesday, West Ham and Charlton. He retired in 2008 after spells in Italy with Lazio and former Serie C1 side Cisco Roma, and was handed his first managerial role by Swindon in May 2011, replacing Paul Hart. Di Canio spent 21 months at the County Ground. After securing promotion, and with Swindon in the League One play-off positions, he quit the Robins on 18 February after becoming frustrated by off-the-field issues.
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obk
Dave Sexton
Posts: 1,516
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Post by obk on Apr 1, 2013 18:39:16 GMT
So Byrne, let me ask you: What did you think the reaction would be?
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bowles
Dave Sexton
Posts: 1,939
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Post by bowles on Apr 1, 2013 22:08:17 GMT
i wouldnt touch this horrible little man with a 10ft barge pole! makes my flesh creep ever time i see him ... di canio is a shite as well ;D
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Post by Macmoish on Apr 2, 2013 0:40:21 GMT
You can argue it doesn't matter what his political beliefs are as a football manager - especially if he doesn't push those views.
But there is no question those are his views...
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Post by Macmoish on Apr 4, 2013 2:02:17 GMT
I guess just because he himself has said he's a fascist and does the salute is no reason for thinking he's a fascist! GUARDIAN • Di Canio responds to 'vicious and personal accusations' • Sunderland manager: 'I am not racist … I respect everyone' Louise Taylor The Guardian, Wednesday 3 April 2013 17.29 BST After almost three days of controversy and confusion, Paolo Di Canio was finally forced into distancing himself from fascism on Wednesday. The Sunderland manager's move came after criticism that culminated in the dean of Durham calling on him to renounce the ideology publicly or risk being associated with "toxic far-right tendencies". Di Canio and the club had reacted slowly to the firestorm that has engulfed them since the Italian's appointment on Sunday night, when David Miliband reacted to the 44-year-old's installation as Martin O'Neill's successor by resigning as the club's vice-chairman. In the past Di Canio has said he was "a fascist but not a racist" . He refused to confirm whether he was still a fascist during an introductory media briefing on Wearside on Tuesday but now Di Canio has sought to clarify his views. "I am not political, I do not affiliate myself to any organisation," he said in a statement to Sunderland's website clearly designed to draw a line under the matter. "I am not a racist and I do not support the ideology of fascism. I respect everyone. I am a football man and this and my family are my focus. Now I will speak only of football. "I feel that I should not have to continually justify myself to people who do not understand this, however I will say one thing only – I am not the man that some people like to portray." Sunderland's American owner, Ellis Short, and Northern Irish chief executive, Margaret Byrne, have evidently been shocked and stunned by the opposition to their new manager from assorted quarters including the Church of England, former Durham miners and war veterans. It certainly did not help the struggling club when, earlier on Wednesday, new photographs emerged of Di Canio seemingly attending the funeral of a well-known Italian fascist and when the Lazio historian Alfonso Dessi told ITV News: "He was a true fascist. He declared himself a fascist and never denied his ideas but this matter had no impact on the … football institutions. He had a huge impact on the so-called hooligans because of his political ideas but no impact on the media." Belatedly Sunderland's previously confusingly opaque manager has answered back in a coherent manner. "I have clearly stated that I do not wish to speak about matters other than football, however, I have been deeply hurt by the attacks on the football club," he added. "This is a historic, proud and ethical club and to read and hear some of the vicious and personal accusations is painful. I am an honest man, my values and principles come from my family and my upbringing." His words were posted on the club website shortly after the dean of Durham wrote an open letter to Di Canio. The Very Reverend Michael Sadgrove, a Sunderland supporter and the son of a Jewish war refugee, said he was struggling to stay loyal to the club and that he found Di Canio's "self-confessed fascism deeply troubling". In his letter Sadgrove wrote: "Your appointment raises very difficult questions. You see, I am the child of a Jewish war refugee who got out of Germany and came to Britain just in time. Some of her family and friends perished in the Nazi death camps. So I find your self-confessed fascism deeply troubling. "Fascism was nearly the undoing of the world. It cost millions of innocent lives. Mussolini, who you say has been deeply misunderstood, openly colluded with it. You are said to wear a tattoo DUX [the Latin equivalent of Duce and a reference to Benito Mussolini's title Il Duce] which speaks for itself. This all adds up to what I find baffling. "You say that you are not a racist, but it needs great sophistication to understand how fascism and racism are ultimately different. I can promise you that this distinction will be lost on the people of the north-east where the British National Party is finding fertile ground in which to sow the seeds of its pernicious and poisonous doctrine. "You did not necessarily know this before you came. But I believe that unless you clearly renounce fascism in all its manifestations, you will be associated with these toxic far-right tendencies we have seen too much of in this region." Di Canio had little choice but to respond. Now Sunderland can only pray that the only F-word mentioned at the Stadium of Light is football. Considering the team are without a win in eight games, one point above the relegation zone and due to visit Chelsea on Sunday and Newcastle United the following week such refocusing seems essential. "I doubt Paolo's political views are really relevant to keeping Sunderland in the Premier League," said Jeremy Wray, Di Canio's former chairman at Swindon. "I've known Paolo for two years and I don't think I've heard him discuss politics once." Short will doubtless be delighted if the same proves true at Sunderland. www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/apr/03/paolo-di-canio-ideology-fascism
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Post by alfaranger on Apr 4, 2013 9:36:12 GMT
Just so we know what we're dealing with:
Fascism a. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
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Post by terryb on Apr 4, 2013 10:26:42 GMT
I have to agree that being a facist should not stop Di Canio being employed.
However, it is laughable that a football club can make an appointment like this & expect it to be acceptable to all of the supporters/fans of that club. Equally, if a supporter of extreme left wing views was employed he would have the same amount of opposition.
I'm pleased that we have not employed him in the same way that I was pleased that we didn't sign King.
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Post by cpr on Apr 4, 2013 12:21:39 GMT
Just so we know what we're dealing with: Fascism a. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism. Bit like Mao, Stalin etc eh.
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Post by alfaranger on Apr 4, 2013 12:45:46 GMT
Just so we know what we're dealing with: Fascism a. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism. Bit like Mao, Stalin etc eh. Absolutely, and well put. I don't think that the 'right' and 'left' measurement is a straight line where one is at the opposite end to the other, but rather that it curves in a sort of circle. Extreme right and extreme left then meet and can nestle quite closeley together under a new label called 'murdering bastards'. However, as a caveat to this, if we propose some 'action' because of his political views then we begin to tread the same path.
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Post by cpr on Apr 4, 2013 16:06:17 GMT
Bit like Mao, Stalin etc eh. Absolutely, and well put. I don't think that the 'right' and 'left' measurement is a straight line where one is at the opposite end to the other, but rather that it curves in a sort of circle. Extreme right and extreme left then meet and can nestle quite closeley together under a new label called 'murdering bastards'. However, as a caveat to this, if we propose some 'action' because of his political views then we begin to tread the same path. Funny that, I too use the circle analogy and where they meet and become one.
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Post by terryb on Apr 7, 2013 10:15:02 GMT
Did any of you hear the Fulham fan from Pointless on Have I got News For You?
He explained that there was a difference between being a facist and a racist by "After all John Terry isn't a facist"!
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Post by bowranger on Apr 7, 2013 20:20:22 GMT
Absolutely, and well put. I don't think that the 'right' and 'left' measurement is a straight line where one is at the opposite end to the other, but rather that it curves in a sort of circle. Extreme right and extreme left then meet and can nestle quite closeley together under a new label called 'murdering bastards'. However, as a caveat to this, if we propose some 'action' because of his political views then we begin to tread the same path. Funny that, I too use the circle analogy and where they meet and become one. I'm gonna be really boring and say I don't think it really work likes that in an ideological sense. The nastier ends of ideology tend to pick and choose from both the left and right depending on balancing particular views on economics and authoritarianism. You can have Stalinists who believe in total state control, repression and so on being "extreme left" - by the same token, anarchists and socialist-libertarians believing in the total destruction of state control and total freedom also being "extreme left". Just like how on the "extreme right" you can have some types of fascist dictator or total capitalist-libertarians. My point being is that you could have extreme right or left belief systems, but they don't always hit a circle in terms of mass-murdering, authoritarian states. It's just those are the practical examples we have to hand, bar perhaps big chunks of Spain during the Civil War as a non-authoritarian extreme left example. Fascism is abhorrent, but really interesting to me ideologically as it's quite hard to define as it takes different shapes in different countries, just with some of the 'core' beliefs in tact. Like the nazis in Germany were very "extreme right" in terms of valuing extreme nationalism, racial solidarity and so on, but "extreme left" in terms of a lot of economic policy - state nationalisation, protectionism and so on. Quite different to fascism in Italy or Romania, say. Or indeed, neo-nazis today. Either way, completely disgusting, but it's a very strange and complex set of ideas. Which is partly why I think there's so much debate about Di Canio at the moment. People have some legitimate reasons for tagging racism onto fascism because most active fascists in Europe and the US today, claiming the term, tend to be related to the white power scene of total boneheaded idiots. But that's different to some Italian people who identify with Mussolini's "brand" of fascism - they tend to be extreme social conservatives with a love of authoritarian strong-arm leadership - but not necessarily racists. In my opinion, still total cretins. But yeah, there's a distinction to be made there. But I totally agree that no matter what "wing" someone decides to call it, there's definitely a convergence of nasty murdering bastards claiming the tags at both ends. So in that sense, I think you're right. I'll go out and get a life now. Just using anything to distract me from how I feel after today's game.
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manta
Gordon Jago
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Post by manta on Apr 8, 2013 16:12:09 GMT
Has Milliband ever spoke to De Canio? About anything? No of course not. It's ok for Miliband and his fellow comrades to salute their past Communist heros. So one form of fascist ideology (however you coat it) is ok but the other isn't? What hypocrisy.
Besides I think there's more to De Canio's salute than the snarling photo suggests. Knowing his character he probably did it in the heat of the moment in a theatrical play to the Lazio contingent who worship the bestriding Il Duce Mussolini.
Also Milliband is off to America to take up a whopping salary to run a charity. I have to laugh at the oxymoron there. Good riddance.
And another thing, both Millibands have God awful taste in women!
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Post by bowranger on Apr 8, 2013 16:35:16 GMT
What communist heroes does Milliband salute? I think the guy is a total tool but I don't see him saluting Mao or Stalin? Absolutely absurd comparison. It's like accusing your average centre-right winger of saluting Pinochet.
And it wasn't a "heat of the moment" salute. He's done it repeatedly - there is just one particular image used repeatedly in the press. I suppose it was heat of the moment him turning up to honour Paolo Signorelli at his funeral? Or getting a tattoo of Mussolini?
Like I say, I think Milliband is a hypocrite and a bit of a worm, but your apologist comparisons here are ridiculously wide of the mark.
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manta
Gordon Jago
Posts: 945
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Post by manta on Apr 8, 2013 16:58:06 GMT
Possibly about De Canio now you've mentioned that but definitely not Milliband.
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