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Post by Roller on Jan 22, 2013 7:49:15 GMT
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2013 8:06:54 GMT
I have already seen it mate and an excellent piece as always
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Post by Macmoish on Jan 22, 2013 8:21:12 GMT
Thanks Roller nice piece...
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Post by gramps on Jan 22, 2013 11:32:15 GMT
Excellent. I just wish I had the ability to write like that.
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robbie
Neil Warnock
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Post by robbie on Jan 22, 2013 12:19:06 GMT
great article
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Post by Macmoish on Jan 22, 2013 12:47:37 GMT
Scapegoats in years gone by would very much include Mick Leach...
Terry Venables: Definitely one of my QPR Heroes as player. Just because he brought so much to QPR as a player and captain
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Post by Roller on Jan 22, 2013 13:05:27 GMT
Excellent. I just wish I had the ability to write like that. You are too kind Gramps, we all know who is the published author around here.
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Post by Roller on Jan 22, 2013 13:07:40 GMT
Scapegoats in years gone by would very much include Mick Leach... One guy on LFW lists a few of them ..... "first one in my era was also Mick Leach RIP, then Alan Wilks, Martyn Busby and so on up to modern era eg Paul Bruce and the disgraceful treatment of Gavin Mahon a few years back" That is just a few though, we always seem to need to have one don't we?
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Post by gramps on Jan 22, 2013 18:27:58 GMT
Excellent. I just wish I had the ability to write like that. You are too kind Gramps, we all know who is the published author around here. ;D OK, but I still don't have that sort of wordsmith skill.
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Sabas
Dave Sexton
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Post by Sabas on Jan 22, 2013 20:10:43 GMT
I don't think anybody ever forgot Cisse's goalscoring abilities from last season (not to mention his red cards as well) and suggesting that somebody was trying to make him a scapegoat is a rather a surprising conclusion to me.
But this season his disenchantment with the club was obvious, and I respect his honesty about that, which resulted in a quite efficient loan deal (I think?). He doesn't want to be here - he gets out. Unlike Bonsingwa and, let's say, someone like Ephraim, who perhaps wants to play here, here = Premiership, but knows that maybe he's not really good enough to get any starts, and still decides to stay and be paid.
Yes, it's the players fault (all players, most players or some players - doesn't matter), but it's also the huge responsibility of the ones who brought them here - believing that maybe we'll be OK with Park's fading form and Bosingwa's cockiness; or maybe that they can change that.
The scapegoat for me is the delusional preparation for the season and I haven't really seen anyone putting a finger on something/someone so certain like one player.
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Post by mfnc on Jan 22, 2013 20:23:23 GMT
to me cisse is a 'speck of sand on the beaches that are QPR's seasons, in the whole wide world that is the clubs history'. you can take that piece of writing roller if you like, i dont mind. good piece mate.
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Post by Macmoish on Jan 22, 2013 20:35:19 GMT
to me cisse is a 'speck of sand on the beaches that are QPR's seasons, in the whole wide world that is the clubs history'. you can take that piece of writing roller if you like, i dont mind. good piece mate. Would that make Gianni a piece of grit stuck in the eye ?
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Post by Roller on Jan 22, 2013 20:41:22 GMT
Can I just say that the article is not actually about Cisse, he is just an example within the article, Clive's introduction is misleading.
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Post by mfnc on Jan 22, 2013 20:42:03 GMT
to me cisse is a 'speck of sand on the beaches that are QPR's seasons, in the whole wide world that is the clubs history'. you can take that piece of writing roller if you like, i dont mind. good piece mate. Would that make Gianni a piece of grit stuck in the eye ? 'grit'..........i would change the first two letters.
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Sabas
Dave Sexton
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Post by Sabas on Jan 22, 2013 22:19:39 GMT
Can I just say that the article is not actually about Cisse, he is just an example within the article, Clive's introduction is misleading. It's an interesting text, Roller; I just don't agree on Cisse being a very good example to analyze the fans' behaviour. I don't think he's ever been a hero, nor he became a villain (or a scapegoat). "CissĆ©ās transition from hero to villain has been breathtaking." I think the fan you describe, that you bet was probably singing Ole Ole Cisse earlier, was probably simply being a loud idiot (being one, not was...) But I understand what you're saying. Take this forum; the opinions and ratings of players change dramatically from game to game ... SWP is rubbish and then genius, Green - crap then good then sh/te again; these opinions swing almost with every player (except maybe Nelsen). We have no patience - both getting and giving reward. It has to be instant. Just monitor the situation with Remy. Right now, after that one excellent goal, he's a brilliant signing... So, turns out I kind of backed your point in the end
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Post by bowranger on Jan 23, 2013 1:18:13 GMT
Really interesting piece Roller, particularly the section on how a diluted notion of what constitutes a "hero" in modern pop culture often translates to modern football. Well done!
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Post by bacardi167 on Jan 23, 2013 2:02:59 GMT
Roller, I read the article as it was meant to be read, not through some other attention seeking long winded writers view.
I agree with most of it and always enjoy your blogs. Keep em coming old friend !
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Sabas
Dave Sexton
Posts: 2,349
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Post by Sabas on Jan 23, 2013 7:22:40 GMT
Ledesma is also a worthy example; he was prematurely being turned into a hero by the club itself, taking those duties from the fans and folklorising him very early with a weird non-pun Lalala Ledesma tshirts very very early (despite him being only a loan).
Then after a red card, (and unlike Cisse) he wasn't really given a chance to redeem himself and was considered a flop from then on. He became a measuring standard, eg "will x [new signing] be the next Ledesma?".
I guess Cisee's example is unique in that we were always suspicious; after his two dismissals (possibly costing us 6 points)... But you make a very interesting point that he became more of a 'villain' this season by doing really nothing, than last season getting that mad red card against Wolves when the fans were escorting him with ole-ole-chant support. Sometimes, the fans are too forgiving and too ruthless, without any true cause.
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Post by Lonegunmen on Jan 23, 2013 8:04:42 GMT
I'd like to see Ledesma & Parejo here now and see how they'd go.
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Post by Roller on Jan 24, 2013 18:12:38 GMT
Roller, I read the article as it was meant to be read, not through some other attention seeking long winded writers view. I agree with most of it and always enjoy your blogs. Keep em coming old friend ! Thanks mate, but please don't start knocking Clive on my watch! If I could write half as well as him there wouldn't have been any misunderstanding, and his output is phenomenal.
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Post by Roller on Jan 24, 2013 18:33:16 GMT
Sabas, sorry for the delay but I wanted to write a reasoned reply to your interesting comments. Cisse fits with what Iām trying to say far better in my opinion. I donāt believe you can have a hero foisted on to you as you correctly say that the club tried to do with Ledesma. By scoring important goals and being particularly extrovert Cisse naturally elevated himself into that position. This seasonās tactics (such as they have been!) have neutered him, his frustration has been manifestly obvious, which eventually resulted in his ālack of effortā, but when did he ever chase lost causes and hassle defender? After last seasonās elation he had further to fall. Maybe a greater feeling of being let down makes some peopleās vitriol more vehement, which would also tally with the Nelsen situation. Anyway, if we all (or my just I) could keep these things in proportion and not create heroes and villains out of these guys whose performances can be significantly altered by the managers tactics weād all be more stable. That isnāt really the lot of a passionate supporter though is it? Maybe when Iām as old and cynical as cpr Iāll be better able to cope with supporting QPR!
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Post by RoryTheRanger on Jan 24, 2013 18:45:36 GMT
Speaking of Cisse I need to find a way to get his name and number off the back of my shirt, any suggestions???
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2013 18:50:35 GMT
Speaking of Cisse I need to find a way to get his name and number off the back of my shirt, any suggestions??? buy a new shirt
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Post by Roller on Jan 24, 2013 19:21:46 GMT
Speaking of Cisse I need to find a way to get his name and number off the back of my shirt, any suggestions??? Just wear last season's Faurlin shirt Rory.
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Post by 0hwestlondon on Jan 24, 2013 19:52:48 GMT
Speaking of Cisse I need to find a way to get his name and number off the back of my shirt, any suggestions??? Clean your car with it. if you aint got a car then clean someone else's with it.
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Sabas
Dave Sexton
Posts: 2,349
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Post by Sabas on Jan 24, 2013 23:06:41 GMT
Speaking of Cisse I need to find a way to get his name and number off the back of my shirt, any suggestions??? Ebay? Or, as Roller has said, wear the number of THAT Cisse who scored important goals But perhaps you can wait until we land Papiss.
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Post by bacardi167 on Jan 25, 2013 3:04:28 GMT
Roller, I read the article as it was meant to be read, not through some other attention seeking long winded writers view. I agree with most of it and always enjoy your blogs. Keep em coming old friend ! Not knocking him at al mate, just some seem to go on for days on end!
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Post by saphilip on Jan 25, 2013 5:50:08 GMT
Give fans credit - most of them can quickly pick up players with a "don't give a damn and only it for the money" attitude. More importantly they won't necessarily bring past achievements to cloub their judegement.
If Cisse was a scapegoat then in my humble view, he deserved it - and what he did for us last season be damned. Yes his goals helped us stay up last season but he also got stupidily sent off on 2 occasions and was suspended for 7 (or was it 8?) games as a result. Those 2 sending offs alone cost us at least 4 points in those 2 matches - and who knows what we could have gained if he didn't serve those lengthy suspensions,
Therefore, in my view this display of utter stupidity neutralised those vital goals. Hero and villain combined - but that was last season. What about the current one?
He didn't give a damn this season - as simple as that. I could see it, most QPR fans could see it and judging by Shaun Derry's view (see other thread), many players could see it. More importantly even the reportersd and commentators could see it.
John Gregory's comment during the Liverpool game summed it up. Whena sked by the co-commentator what he thought of Cisse's hair cut his answer was blunt and to the point - going along the lines of "I wish he would spend as much time on the training ground as he spends at the hairdresser".
For sure he was by no means the only player at QPR with that attitude and I think Hughe's man managment and tactics are as much to blame as the player - but it still boiled down to Cisse. Only he, and he alone, could have changed his attitude.
Sadly he has always had this attitude no matter who he has played for - brilliant for a while, before going into a total sulk and not giving a damn. What we saw form him in a QPR shirt was not an exception but the norm.
'Arry is no fool and he probably picked it up from day one. He has always hinted, without naming names, that certain players didn't give a stuff for QPR. Cisse was probably near the top of that list - along with tyhe likes of Bosingwa.
So no, the fans who booed him weren't mugs - and they were right when they called it for what it is - only in it for the money. Perhaps the only thing you can fault them is for putting him on some sort of pedestal in the first place.
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