obk
Dave Sexton
Posts: 1,516
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Post by obk on Oct 21, 2012 14:56:55 GMT
...before Everton match.
In short: Too poor defensively, too much flair. A back four not of premiership class, if you want to stay in the premier league you need to build from the back...Wrong balance in the team, good but wrong players brought in.
Also mentioned the stats for Warnock and Hughes in the premier league with Warnock being the better so far.
Still they wanted to give Hughes at least a couple of matches more before giving a verdict.
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Post by shenandoah on Oct 21, 2012 17:31:19 GMT
On what channel did you see that?
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obk
Dave Sexton
Posts: 1,516
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Post by obk on Oct 21, 2012 18:24:53 GMT
Viasat (Viaplay). Was Ola Andersson and the coach of Ã…tvidaberg.
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Post by spanishal on Oct 21, 2012 19:43:36 GMT
Think the guy has it about right. We played some really delightful football today, in areas that didn`t count. Around the box we are ineffective in theirs and downright negligent in ours and it does not seem to be improving even though the team really look the business at times.
Can understand the frustration as it does seem the players are giving it their all, well most of them anyway. Granero is a class above - must wonder what the hell he`s doing here.
Wish I had MHs optimism as we dont seem to have the guile or finesse for the Premiership but I would love to be wrong.
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Post by cpr on Oct 21, 2012 19:48:00 GMT
Don't worry al, you will be. ;D
What was their analysis after the game obk?
Neville & Wilkins were similarly negative before but both changed their tune after the game.
Got to say, I do like Niall Quinn as a pundit, didn't agree with all he said but I like his sensible unbiased approach.
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Post by Jon Doeman on Oct 21, 2012 21:32:44 GMT
...before Everton match. In short: Too poor defensively, too much flair. A back four not of premiership class, if you want to stay in the premier league you need to build from the back...Wrong balance in the team, good but wrong players brought in. . Hang on a minute, not sure that applies with the 4 that started. hopefully they can get a run of games together. Thought Hughes set the team up well today.
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obk
Dave Sexton
Posts: 1,516
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Post by obk on Oct 21, 2012 21:37:12 GMT
Analysis after the match was pretty much what Al said. Great midfield but weak and ineffective around both boxes.
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Post by Jon Doeman on Oct 21, 2012 22:01:20 GMT
Analysis after the match was pretty much what Al said. Great midfield but weak and ineffective around both boxes. I thought they defended well big improvement on WBA , & Distin was Zamora's man. Accept the toothless bit, Zamora was a bit shit that end as well.
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obk
Dave Sexton
Posts: 1,516
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Post by obk on Oct 22, 2012 5:19:25 GMT
Question is, why was that Zamoras man? Shouldn't the real defenders mark in that danger area?
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Post by terryb on Oct 22, 2012 6:54:07 GMT
We were marking man to man. Perhaps zonal would have been better as more goals are scored against man to man than zonal.
Nelsen had the centre forward (top scorer but can't remember his name), M'bia had Jagielka (sp) & Zamora was mean't to have Distin.
Just as bad was that Zamora gave away a totally pointless free kick that led to the goal.
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Sabas
Dave Sexton
Posts: 2,349
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Post by Sabas on Oct 22, 2012 7:19:10 GMT
In context of last season Warnock's stats were worse, but considering this season, they're likely to be even.
The swedes are right - we're not dangerous / effective where it matters. Our attacking is predictable, consisting of raw crosses and passes to Zamora with his back to the goal. + Something special from Adel (something that we didn't see yesterday), him cutting inside and shooting.
But under this management, I think it's the best we can hope for. And it might just work, sometimes.
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Post by cpr on Oct 22, 2012 7:33:17 GMT
We were marking man to man. Perhaps zonal would have been better as more goals are scored against man to man than zonal. Nelsen had the centre forward (top scorer but can't remember his name), M'bia had Jagielka (sp) & Zamora was mean't to have Distin. Just as bad was that Zamora gave away a totally pointless free kick that led to the goal. Not sure about that statement on man to man v zonal Terry, i personally dislike zonal as it absolves players of responsibility but it's a preference. Whichever way you do it, you simply have to do it well. Good sides use a mix of both. Totally agree about the needless free kick though but someone will put the blame on Hughes for that! Zamora did OK, holding it up and laying it off but I would have given Cisse longer, especially against ten men. We have good passers that could set him free, he looks daft because he runs offside but part of that of course, is the through ball being delayed. Players need to work together more and get used to Cisse's style as opposed to that of Zamora.
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Post by terryb on Oct 22, 2012 17:27:12 GMT
cpr
I certainly agree with you that a combination of man to man & zonal is best. I would also argue that you may need a different system for some free kicks as to for corners.
From the position of the free kick yesterday I would go zonal as the area of attack is very limited. Although we did not defend that ball, credit should also be given to the movement of the Everton players who made certain that they removed Nelsen from that area.
All statistics that I have heard have stated that more goals are conceded from man to man marking than zonal but whether this is just in the UK or world wide I would not know. It could also be affected by the amount of sides that favour one syatem & like you say, whatever you use you must do it effectively.
I have never understood what difference the marking system gives to absolve players of responibility. You can point to a player in that zone not attacking the ball just as much as to someone losing an opponent. Also with man to man it is impossible for any player to win all challenges in the match.
I am sure that the defending side always win the majority of crosses, but the attacking side are bound to win some & it only requires to win one to score.
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Post by irishranger on Oct 22, 2012 17:46:47 GMT
You're right Terry you can't win all the heading duels but you can't give free headers like Distin got. When Jagielka hit the bar he at least got a little nudge in the back, possibly enough to make him miss
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Post by terryb on Oct 22, 2012 17:57:51 GMT
irishranger you are so right.
It was shambolic defending to leave Distin completely free like that & deserved to be punished.
My point though, was that we must accept that sometimes our opponents will win the balls into our area & it will not be because we have defended badly.
In attack we may even win the occasional ball into their area, but I can only recall Nelsen doing that this season!
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Post by irishranger on Oct 22, 2012 18:10:14 GMT
Shambolic is the right word for it Terry, WTF was our centre forward doing on his own penalty spot organising the line of defenders trying to move them up the pitch??? Commendable, but we have coaches and defenders to organise that and if they're doing their job then Zamora could do his and MARK Distin!
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Post by cpr on Oct 22, 2012 18:21:02 GMT
You're right Terry you can't win all the heading duels but you can't give free headers like Distin got. When Jagielka hit the bar he at least got a little nudge in the back, possibly enough to make him miss And who was it that gave him that little nudge?
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Post by cpr on Oct 22, 2012 18:28:02 GMT
cpr I certainly agree with you that a combination of man to man & zonal is best. I would also argue that you may need a different system for some free kicks as to for corners. From the position of the free kick yesterday I would go zonal as the area of attack is very limited. Although we did not defend that ball, credit should also be given to the movement of the Everton players who made certain that they removed Nelsen from that area. All statistics that I have heard have stated that more goals are conceded from man to man marking than zonal but whether this is just in the UK or world wide I would not know. It could also be affected by the amount of sides that favour one syatem & like you say, whatever you use you must do it effectively. I have never understood what difference the marking system gives to absolve players of responibility. You can point to a player in that zone not attacking the ball just as much as to someone losing an opponent. Also with man to man it is impossible for any player to win all challenges in the match. I am sure that the defending side always win the majority of crosses, but the attacking side are bound to win some & it only requires to win one to score. Good post Terry, liked that. I would say though, that with regard to that specific goal conceded, it's very difficult to have zonal responsibility due to the limited space, just stay with your man, nearest of zonal and don't stop coz he's now someone else's responsibility. As you say though, sometimes you just have to hold your hands up. You are right about Nelson, I think he got our only header (over the bar) on Sunday and he climbed over M'bia to get it. On that subject, I think M'bia will be a serious threat from free kicks and corners for us, he seems to me like that's his type of stuff. Can't see Nelson lasting a whole season so I would think a defender with a proper brain to play alongside M'bia would be a massive asset.
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