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Post by cpr on Jul 13, 2012 7:51:40 GMT
It's football innit....
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Post by RoryTheRanger on Jul 13, 2012 8:21:23 GMT
According to Dot Org Terry's defence lawyer is the same man who defended the teenager that killed Kiyan Prince
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Post by Macmoish on Jul 13, 2012 8:27:13 GMT
Making the New York Times News Section London Journal At Trial Over Racial Slur, a Redefining of ‘Acceptable Language’ By SARAH LYALL Published: July 12, 2012 LONDON — When a soccer player named Anton Ferdinand took the stand in the trial of John Terry, an opposing player who is accused of racially abusing him in a game last year, he seemed embarrassed to tell the court what he himself had said first. “Please do not worry about the language,” the prosecutor, Duncan Penny, told Mr. Ferdinand. “What did you call Mr. Terry?” There followed the first of many paint-peeling profanities, as Mr. Ferdinand, 27, and then Mr. Terry, 31, tried to lay out for the bemused spectators at London Magistrates’ Court what constitutes acceptable on-field chat in a typical professional soccer game. If it was an odd spectacle, hearing such language in a sober British courtroom full of sober British lawyers, so was this an odd case, one seemingly without precedent in British soccer history. Mr. Terry, captain of the Premier League team Chelsea, and captain of the England national team before his arrest, is charged with committing a racially aggravated public order offense — using a racial slur — against Mr. Ferdinand, a defender for Queens Park Rangers, in a game last October. Racism has been a persistent problem in professional soccer, both in Britain and abroad, and the charges against Mr. Terry were intended to demonstrate how seriously law-enforcement officers take the matter. Antiracism campaigners say the case is an important step in their efforts to draw attention to the problem; supporters of Mr. Terry, including many of his teammates, say he is being unfairly singled out and that he is not a racist. Before the court came to the racially abusive remark, it had to establish the context for it, an exercise that provided a startling insight into traditional soccer-field discourse. According to accounts the players gave in court and the transcript of an interview Mr. Terry gave to the police, the encounter began when Mr. Terry angered Mr. Ferdinand by failing to return a ball that had gone out of bounds. Mr. Ferdinand then tauntingly reminded Mr. Terry that he had, to paraphrase, illicitly slept with the girlfriend of Wayne Bridge, another player. The court heard that Mr. Ferdinand enhanced his remark by making what Mr. Terry told the police was “an obscene gesture of a sexual nature,” whereupon Mr. Terry responded with a different gesture meant to suggest, he explained, that “Anton had bad breath.” (He clarified the point in court, saying that he did not mean it literally and that Mr. Ferdinand’s breath, in fact, “didn’t smell.”) In between gestures, the two exchanged long and abusive soliloquies, they related, repeating them for the court. As the argument on the field became more heated, Mr. Terry at one point compared Mr. Ferdinand to male genitalia, and then to female genitalia, in consecutive sentences. Most of these constituted “handbags,” or “normal verbal exchanges between the players,” Mr. Terry told the police, according to the transcript. These types of things, the players said, include calling other players fat, or taunting them about how their mothers like to have sex with people in other cities. “However unpleasant,” Mr. Terry said, “it’s a fact of the modern game.” Mr. Terry does not deny that in the course of all this he used a racially offensive remark, inserting the word “black” between a rude adjective and a rude noun that had already seen a great deal of play in the exchange. But, he said, he was merely using the “rhetorical” device of repeating what he (mistakenly, it appears) believed Mr. Ferdinand had accused him of saying in the first place. He added that he often repeated other players’ insults back to them, as a matter of style. “My words were responsive and not accusatory,” Mr. Terry told the police. “My use of these words was intended to make it plain that I had not called him” — here Mr. Terry repeated the racially offensive term — “and that in reality, Anton was a” — and here he used a term that was sexually but not racially offensive — “for even alleging that I had.” He continued: “I felt he was accusing me of making a racist remark, which is simply not true.” Interestingly enough, Mr. Ferdinand says he did not hear Mr. Terry insert the word “black” in his insults, but was only alerted to it after his girlfriend showed him a YouTube video in which Mr. Terry could be seen mouthing the language. The complaint that led to the criminal case was made not by Mr. Ferdinand but by an off-duty police officer who saw the game on television. On the stand, Mr. Ferdinand said that he “would have been obviously very hurt” had he heard what Mr. Terry said. “When someone calls you a [very bad word], that’s fine,” Mr. Ferdinand said. “When someone brings your color into it, it takes it to another level.” The trial has proved divisive in the close-knit world of Premier League soccer. While 16 of Mr. Terry’s teammates presented affidavits saying they had “never heard Terry use racist language on the pitch or in training,” a number of others — including Mr. Ferdinand’s brother, who plays for Manchester United but is Mr. Terry’s teammate on the England national team — remained silent. In a testy exchange, Ashley Cole, a Chelsea player who is black, told the court that he believed Mr. Terry. “J. T. was saying he thought Anton had said something about ‘black’ and he’s just repeated it,” Mr. Cole said. “That was it. I think we shouldn’t be sitting here. Personally.” The two sides presented their closing arguments on Thursday; the magistrate in the case is expected to rule on Friday. If he loses, Mr. Terry faces a maximum fine of around $3,000, more symbolic — he reportedly makes around $185,000 a week — than substantive. In cross-examination, Mr. Penny, the prosecutor, made it clear that he did not believe Mr. Terry’s explanation. “Why not just say, ‘Anton, calm down?’ ” Mr. Penny asked. To which Mr. Terry replied: “You wouldn’t see many footballers say, ‘Calm down.’ ” www.nytimes.com/2012/07/13/world/europe/trial-of-soccer-star-terry-revolves-around-foul-language.html?_r=1&hp
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Post by RoryTheRanger on Jul 13, 2012 8:31:21 GMT
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Post by cpr on Jul 13, 2012 8:44:55 GMT
Well, the four day circus is over and everything now rests on the opinion of one man.
Regardless of who prosecutes/defends.
Although the maximum fine is "only" £2,500 can costs also be included in any punishment?
Conversely, if found not guilty, can Terry be awarded costs?
This hasn't been the finest example of an attempt to tackle racism in football via legal system means. The accused being wealthy enough to almost own his club, a limited intellect, not unusual in footballing terms. The prosecution's chief "witness" an unwilling party to the court case.
All this because an off duty police officer apparently saw what Terry said whilst watching live footage of the game.
This can of worms has hardly even been opened yet.
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Post by ozzh00p on Jul 13, 2012 8:56:22 GMT
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Post by Macmoish on Jul 13, 2012 13:14:29 GMT
And here we go...
David Conn @david_conn
The chief magistrate has just arrived in court with John Terry sitting alone in the dock.
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Post by Macmoish on Jul 13, 2012 13:17:22 GMT
David Conn þ@david_conn
"Issue is whether Mr Terry uttered the words F***ing black c**t as an insult. If he did, the offence is made out." Expand
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53s David Conn David Conn þ@david_conn
"The issue for the court is not to decide whether Mr Terry is a racist - I have received unchallenged evidence he is not."
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Post by haqpr1963 on Jul 13, 2012 13:20:14 GMT
Ferdinand brave to give evidence and a believable witness......
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Post by Macmoish on Jul 13, 2012 13:22:25 GMT
Sounds like not proven even if plausible
4s David Conn David Conn @david_conn
"It is a crucial fact that nobody has given evidence about what Mr Terry said or how he said it." Expand
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1m David Conn David Conn @david_conn
"Even with all the help received, it is impossible to be sure exactly what were the words spoken by John Terry at the relevant time." Expand
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1m David Conn David Conn @david_conn
Chief Magistrate: "Prosecution has built a strong case. Question is whether the defence has established a doubt." Expand
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2m David Conn David Conn @david_conn
"Overall I found Anton Ferdinand to be a believable witness on the central issue." Expand
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4m David Conn David Conn @david_conn
Re Anton Ferdinand: "Defence did not undermine the evidence of this witness. Reasonable to describe Anton F as "brave." Unlikely he is lying Expand
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5m David Conn David Conn @david_conn
"Issue is whether Mr Terry uttered the words F***ing black c**t as an insult. If he did, the offence is made out." Expand
Reply Retweet Favorite
5m David Conn David Conn @david_conn
"The issue for the court is not to decide whether Mr Terry is a racist - I have received unchallenged evidence he is not." Expand
Reply Retweet Favorite
6m David Conn David Conn @david_conn
Magistrate is talking now, will not read the whole judgement but some key points Expand
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7m David Conn David Conn @david_conn
The chief magistrate has just arrived in court with John Terry sitting alone in the dock. Expand
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Post by haqpr1963 on Jul 13, 2012 13:24:39 GMT
Not Guilty
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Post by Hogan on Jul 13, 2012 13:25:04 GMT
Verdict is Not Guilty!
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Post by Zamoraaaah on Jul 13, 2012 13:31:32 GMT
The FA should do him for bringing the game into disrepute.
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Post by Lonegunmen on Jul 13, 2012 13:31:43 GMT
Once again the Terry family get away with shit. Father, Brother, Mother and now ex England Captain. What a scumbag family.
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Post by cpr on Jul 13, 2012 13:32:49 GMT
Shock result....
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Post by Macmoish on Jul 13, 2012 13:39:53 GMT
Imagine the reaction on the QPR Plane as they hear the news...
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Post by Macmoish on Jul 13, 2012 13:41:20 GMT
GUARDIAN John Terry cleared of racially abusing Anton Ferdinand Chief magistrate finds Chelsea captain not guilty of racially aggravated public order offence, but praises 'brave' Ferdinand Caroline Davies and Lizzy Davies guardian.co.uk, Friday 13 July 2012 09.24 EDT The former captain of the England football team, John Terry, has been found not guilty of racially abusing the QPR defender Anton Ferdinand during a vigorous exchange of insults in a match last year. At the end of a four-day trial, the chief magistrate Howard Riddle cleared the 31-year-old Chelsea captain of a racially aggravated public order offence. Delivering his verdict, Riddle said the case was not about whether Terry was "a racist in the broadest sense of the word". He had heard a great deal of evidence to show that he was not, he said. "It is understandable why Mr Terry wants to make this point; his reputation is at stake," Riddle added. Riddle also praised Ferdinand for having come forward for the trial, saying it was a "brave" thing to do. The trial focused on words spoken by the centre-back during a heated altercation with Ferdinand, 27, following a penalty appeal. Alison Saunders, chief crown prosecutor for London, said: "The very serious allegation at the heart of this case was one of racial abuse. It was our view that this was not 'banter' on the football pitch and that the allegation should be judged by a court. The chief magistrate agreed that Mr Terry had a case to answer, but having heard all of the evidence he acquitted Mr Terry of a racially aggravated offence. That is justice being done and we respect the chief magistrate's decision." Footage of the exchange in the 84th minute of the match at Loftus Road on 23 October last year was seen by more than two million Sky viewers, and uploaded on to YouTube. Unbroadcast video taken for Chelsea FC training purposes was also examined. During the crucial eight seconds cameras were on Terry, his mouth is obscured at times by his Chelsea team-mate John Obi Mikel, 25. The prosecution alleged Terry used the words "F*** off, F*** off", "yeah, yeah", "and", and then "you F***ing black c**t, F***ing knobhead". The prosecutor Duncan Penny suggested this was Terry responding to a "slow fist pump" gesture by Ferdinand, relating to an alleged affair between Terry and the ex-girlfriend of his former team-mate Wayne Bridge, Vanessa Perroncel. Penny told Riddle the "and" could have been Terry saying "and yours", abuse about Ferdinand's girlfriend. Terry had "snapped", when his "blood was up" after being "goaded" by Ferdinand over the alleged affair, Penny had argued. George Carter-Stephenson QC, for Terry, said that the words were uttered because Terry was repeating "by way of sarcastic exclamation" an accusation he perceived Ferdinand had made on the pitch to him that he had called the QPR player "a black c**t". Ferdinand denied saying that on the pitch to Terry. His account was: "He called me a c**t, and I called him a c**t back. And he gave me a gesture as if to say my breath smelled. I said to him: "How can you call me a c**t? You shagged your team-mate's missus, you're a c**t." The case was unusual in that the chief prosecution witness, Ferdinand, had not himself complained of racial abuse. Police proceedings were initiated as a result of a single complaint made by an off-duty police officer watching the game on television. The prosecution said it was "straightforward racial abuse" and the words had been uttered by way of insult. Ferdinand had not heard the words spoken by Terry, and only saw footage about one hour after the game, at 7pm in the QPR players' lounge when his then girlfriend showed him a YouTube video which had been posted. Even then, despite telling the court he would have been "livid" if he had heard it on the pitch, he did nothing. The remarks were "very hurtful", he said, though he believed the matter should have been handled by the Football Association. Ashley Cole, Terry's Chelsea and England team-mate, said he believed it should never have come to court. "I think we shouldn't be sitting here," he said, in the witness box. Cole was called as a "reluctant" witness, and admitted the case had caused him "conflict". He was a "close" friend of Terry's, but also a "close mate" of Ferdinand's brother, Rio, and had known the Ferdinand family "for a long time". He said he had not clearly heard comments made by Ferdinand, but believed he saw him say "Bridgey or black". The 31-year-old left-back told the court that, during the final few minutes of the game, which QPR won 1-0, Terry had spoken to him about Ferdinand. "He said: 'He thinks I'm being racist,' or something along them lines." The defence said nobody on the pitch had heard Terry's words, and he was the only witness to what he had said. Neither was there footage of what Ferdinand had said. It was "possible", the defence said, Terry had "misinterpreted" Ferdinand saying "Bridge" or "black", or he had heard a voice in the crowd say "black" simultaneously with Ferdinand moving his lips. After the game, Terry asked Ferdinand to the Chelsea dressing room. Terry said he asked him: "What happened out there, geez? Was you accusing me of calling you a black c**t? – my exact words – and he said: 'No, not at all.'" Terry then said "good" and the two agreed it was "just handbags, innit". The timing of the dressing room meeting was one crucial part of the case. Ferdinand believed it to have been 45 minutes after the whistle. Terry thought 15 minutes, just enough time for him to have a "speedy" shower and "do my hair". Cole estimated it to be between 25-30 minutes. It was crucial because of the suggestion Terry may have seen the YouTube footage before calling in Ferdinand to "smooth it over" and "put it to bed". Evidence from the driver of the Chelsea team coach seemed to put the time of the team leaving at around 6.30pm. The defence dismissed the YouTube evidence, saying it was not possible to determine when exactly the video would have been available to view. During an FA interview, five days after the match, Terry agreed: "If you watch the video and me, watching the video, you can quite easily say that, that doesn't look good." But, he said, it had to be viewed "in the context of what I thought Anton accused me of". At his trial Terry stressed he had issued his statement, giving his version of events, before seeing any footage "because I had nothing to hide" and he knew "there was nothing out there that would show that I had done anything wrong". As to "snapping", it was "almost two years on" [after the affair allegation] "and I'd heard it a million times before", said Terry, who said he was "shocked and angry" at what he believed Ferdinand had accused him of. At times, it was difficult to remember who was on trial. Ferdinand's parents, Janice Lavender and Julian Ferdinand, sat in the public gallery as Carter-Stephenson attacked their son's testimony, claiming: "Ferdinand is fundamentally unreliable in terms of conversations and events". Reminding the court Ferdinand "did not wish to be here", Penny said the case would "follow him for the rest of his career". What was in it for Anton, Penny asked. "You may wish to ask the question whether he was brave in choosing to give evidence". www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/jul/13/john-terry-cleared-anton-ferdinand?newsfeed=true
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Post by cpr on Jul 13, 2012 13:48:49 GMT
Well, let's see what the magistrates 13 page report says.
He could theoretically face punishment by the FA but I would think it unlikely but it will depend on what the magistrate actually states.
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Post by RoryTheRanger on Jul 13, 2012 13:51:31 GMT
I wonder if Barton said he punched Tevez and kicked Aguero sarcastically he would get his ban taken back.
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Post by haqpr1963 on Jul 13, 2012 13:54:20 GMT
"Issue is whether Mr Terry uttered the words F***ing black c**t as an insult. If he did, the offence is made out."
How exactly do you say that without it being an insult?
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Post by cpr on Jul 13, 2012 13:55:58 GMT
SO the magistrate has said that it could not proven beyond all doubt, probably leaves room for some form of action by the FA.
They will therefore give him the England captaincy back.
I thought it was very acceptable of Terry to walk away without saying anything to the waiting media. That Chels** bloke's words were also acceptable.
Nobody should be claiming any sort of victory here.
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Post by Macmoish on Jul 13, 2012 14:01:34 GMT
John Terry Trial: Chelsea Defender Found Not Guilty Of Racially Abusing Anton Ferdinand Posted: 13/07/2012 14:24 Updated: 13/07/2012 14:53 www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/07/13/john-terry-trial-racial-abuse-anton-ferdinand-guilty-not-guilty_n_1670773.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000003Footballer John Terry has been found not guilty of using a racist obscenity towards Anton Ferdinand. Terry, 31, was accused of calling the QPR centre-half a "f****** black c***" during a Premier League match on 23 October 2011. Chief Magistrate Howard Riddle cleared the 31-year-old of a racially aggravated public order offence at Westminster Magistrates' Court. Riddle said it was possible Terry said what he did "as a challenge to what he believed had been said to him." "In those circumstances, there being a doubt, the only verdict the court can record is one of not guilty." Giving his verdict Riddle said the case was not about "whether Terry is a racist in the broadest sense of the word". He said he had heard a great deal of evidence to show that he is not. "It is understandable why Terry wants to make this point, his reputation is at stake," he said. Terry left court without making a statement to the media gathered outside. Looking impassive, he was escorted by aides past the media scrum. He made no comment but was cheered by a small group of Chelsea supporters as he was driven away. The Crown Prosecution Service defended the decision to prosecute the former England captain. Alison Saunders, Chief Crown Prosecutor for London, said: "The very serious allegation at the heart of this case was one of racial abuse. "It was our view that this was not 'banter' on the football pitch and that the allegation should be judged by a court. "The Chief Magistrate agreed that Terry had a case to answer, but having heard all of the evidence he acquitted Terry of a racially aggravated offence. "That is justice being done and we respect the Chief Magistrate's decision." READ: THE COURT'S FULL JUDGEMENT www.judiciary.gov.uk/Resources/JCO/Documents/Judgments/r-v-john-terry.pdfExcerpt from the magistrate's judgement: "There is no doubt that John Terry uttered the words 'f****** black c***' at Anton Ferdinand. "When he did so he was angry. Mr Ferdinand says that he did not precipitate this comment by himself, accusing Mr Terry of calling him a black c***. "Even with all the help the court has received from television footage, expert lip readers, witnesses and indeed counsel, it is impossible to be sure exactly what were the words spoken by Mr Terry at the relevant time. "It is impossible to be sure exactly what was said to him at the relevant time by Mr Ferdinand. "It is not only that all of this happened in a matter of seconds. "For a small part of the relevant time the camera's view of Mr Terry was obstructed. "We do not have a clear camera view of Mr Ferdinand, sufficient to pick up exactly what he said. "No matter how serious the incident looks now, and how crucial the exact wording is now, at the time it was secondary to the key witnesses. "They are professional footballers in the final minutes of a game where the result mattered to them both. "They would naturally concentrate on the game more than on exactly what had been said to them or by them. "There was the noise of the crowd. There is the fact that towards the end of a game players are not only physically tired they are also mentally tired. I don't need evidence to tell me that. "It is a crucial fact that nobody has given evidence that they heard what Mr Terry said or more importantly how he said it. "He has given effectively the same account throughout. Insofar as there are discrepancies in his account, they are understandable and natural. "He says that he was himself wrongly accused by Mr Ferdinand on the pitch of calling him a black c***. "He has maintained that from the beginning. "(Terry's team mate) Mr Ashley Cole has corroborated that it was mentioned to him during the game. "There is no doubt that reasonably soon after the game he made the accusation to Mr Ferdinand. He confirmed that basic account in a statement on the evening of the match. "He gave a very detailed account to the FA and later to the police. He gave evidence to that effect in this court. "There have been minor discrepancies in the account. "It seems likely that his belief that he was wrongly accused on the pitch has strengthened as time goes by, and I have discussed that above. "However, his account has been subject to the most searching and thorough questioning on at least three occasions. "Nobody has been able to show that he is lying. The lip readers do not provide evidence that categorically contradicts his account. "What may at first sight have seemed clear to the non-expert, is less clear now. "There are limitations to lip reading, even by an expert. I have assessed John Terry as a credible witness. "Weighing all the evidence together, I think it is highly unlikely that Mr Ferdinand accused Mr Terry on the pitch of calling him a black c***. "However, I accept that it is possible that Mr Terry believed at the time, and believes now, that such an accusation was made. "The prosecution evidence as to what was said by Mr Ferdinand at this point is not strong. "Mr Cole gives corroborating (although far from compelling corroborating) evidence on this point. "It is therefore possible that what he said was not intended as an insult, but rather as a challenge to what he believed had been said to him. "In those circumstances, there being a doubt, the only verdict the court can record is one of not guilty."
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Post by Macmoish on Jul 13, 2012 14:04:46 GMT
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Post by cpr on Jul 13, 2012 14:09:46 GMT
We know what you said....
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Post by cpr on Jul 13, 2012 14:29:17 GMT
Chels*** have issued a statement saying they are pleased the magistrate has seen fit to clear him.
That is not what he did, he said there was doubt and therefore not guilty was the only verdict.
Had he cleared him, his wording would have been entirely different.
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Post by RoryTheRanger on Jul 13, 2012 14:39:29 GMT
Well September 15th is going to be interesting JT will wish he was never born when he visits Loftus Road
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Post by superckat on Jul 13, 2012 14:39:57 GMT
Chels*** have issued a statement saying they are pleased the magistrate has seen fit to clear him. That is not what he did, he said there was doubt and therefore not guilty was the only verdict. Had he cleared him, his wording would have been entirely different. Yep he was found not guilty. Not found innocent. There just wasn't enough evidence to disprove Terry's version of events. Chelsea fans, and an ex QPR Report member will be celebrating today. Anton is the innocent party here who really didn't even want to be involved in this circus. Yet while Terry wil be lauded as a hero by some. Anton will end up getting abuse from some.
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Post by lennypaulista on Jul 13, 2012 14:41:24 GMT
Well September 15th is going to be interesting JT will wish he was never born when he visits Loftus Road Whats the odds on him tweaking a hamstring in training around September 12th
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Post by cpr on Jul 13, 2012 14:52:58 GMT
Well September 15th is going to be interesting JT will wish he was never born when he visits Loftus Road Whats the odds on him tweaking a hamstring in training around September 12th Most unlikely with that confrontational arsehole.
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Post by Macmoish on Jul 13, 2012 15:03:42 GMT
But wait... FA to decide whether to Charge Terry with bringing game into disrepute soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/1124562?cc=5901Lord Ouseley: FA to decide over Terry July 13, 2012 Email Print By Harry Harris, Football Correspondent The Football Association is in the process of deciding whether to charge John Terry with bringing the game into disrepute, with the anti-racism campaigner Lord Herman Ouseley telling ESPN he expects the FA investigation into the incident to continue. John Terry PA PhotosJohn Terry has been in court for five days ESPN has contacted the FA and been told that no comment will be made about whether a "football court" will now hear the racism claims and that it is most likely that a decision on that subject will be made later in the light of the Chief Magistrate's verdict of not guilty. The FA's disciplinary structure does not rely on the more strict higher grade of proof needed for a conviction in the courts, and Lord Ouseley is looking closely at what action the association can now take. Lord Ouseley, who was key in launching Kick It Out anti-racism campaign, told ESPN: "I expect the FA to consider the evidence and to decide whether it contravenes the FA's rule and regulations or not. "I would expect the football regulatory body, that is the FA, to re-commence its disciplinary procedures which were interrupted by the police action and the subsequent court case. "I believe that John Terry has this final hurdle to get over. We have to wait and see, though, if the FA decides to charge him. What we do know is that the FA has a responsibility to uphold the game."
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