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Post by cpr on Jun 12, 2012 22:19:50 GMT
C U Jimmy..... £50 million HMRC debt, how on earth do they allow that. Penny in the pound, having a laugh!
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Post by Marc on Jun 12, 2012 22:58:58 GMT
How on earth did a club of their stature get into this much of a mess??
I heard somewhere that the club will have to start up again from scratch but will be allowed to remain in the SPL? Strange although I would imagine the SPL would crumble altogether if Celtic were the only old firm team in it.
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Post by fraserinbc on Jun 12, 2012 23:59:36 GMT
I heard somewhere that the club will have to start up again from scratch but will be allowed to remain in the SPL? Not quite, according to the BBC the new company would have to rely on a vote from the SPL teams as to whether they can be re-admitted. If denied they would to apply to join the Scottish Football League and start again in the third division. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18407309
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Post by bp on Jun 13, 2012 4:22:04 GMT
What I can't get my head around is the spurious nonsense being spouted by Mr Green regarding the demise of Scottish football if the SPL chairmen vote them out of the SPL.
A team that has cheated for years.
A team that has squandered millions of pounds on foreign players rather than pay taxes like we all do to pay for Hospitals, nurses, ambulances etc' the list of necessary things paid for by taxes is endless.
He has the audacity to sneer and confirm HE will be buy Rangers FC saying it will be cheaper for him to buy them as a liqudated company rather than thru a CVA where he would have been paying a derogatory 9 or possibly 10p in the £.
He snarls out a comment that all the players MUST be transferred into the new Rangers 2012 club!!
Then he glares at the interviewer to describe that it's not only 'UNFAIR' to GRFC but to the fans of all Scottish clubs to punish them.
I'd love to hear his thoughts on not punishing your normal common or garden thief/bank robber.
They should be relegated to the Scottish non league system never mind Div 3.
He then goes on to say that if Rangers are relegated other clubs who have budgeted, something Rangers have not done for years, will suffer hardship not being visited by 1000s of Rangers fans 3 or 4 times a season.
Ironically this could level out Scottish football for the next 3 or 4 years at least because surely the fans of this club will go and see them whoever they play. What an unexpected boost to the lower leagues in Scotland. Surely not all of their fans are glory hunters?
My last point, as I could write a book complaining of the unfairness of Rangers FC to society in general never mind unfair to the SFA.
How does Mr Green know he can buy the liquidated club for £5.5mil?
I know a liquidated club loses it's players due to non payment of salaries so cant sell a few players to raise a few million, which is something the club could and should have done during the last few seasons if the people owning the club had any morals at all. But no they wanted European and domestic glory no matter what the cost.
BUT ignoring the value of any players who loyally remain at the club or who are press ganged into staying, not many I would hazard a guess.
What is IBROX worth?
What is their training ground Murray Park worth?
Just taking those 2 assets alone, are they only worth £5.5mil..??
Something still stinks north of the border and it ain't haggis.
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Post by auburnqpr on Jun 13, 2012 4:47:45 GMT
He should just pay the 9 mil or whatever so he could keep more players
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Post by bp on Jun 13, 2012 4:55:41 GMT
He should just pay the 9 mil or whatever so he could keep more players Is it ok to cheat then and go completely unpunished? Green getting the club for £5.5mil with all it's assets and no debts is fantastic business. It's just morally inexcusable in my opinion. There are and were 100s of things that could and should have been done and to pick up the club for a pittance is carpet bagging of the lowest order.
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Post by eusebio13 on Jun 13, 2012 6:05:02 GMT
What I can't get my head around is the spurious nonsense being spouted by Mr Green regarding the demise of Scottish football if the SPL chairmen vote them out of the SPL. A team that has cheated for years. A team that has squandered millions of pounds on foreign players rather than pay taxes like we all do to pay for Hospitals, nurses, ambulances etc' the list of necessary things paid for by taxes is endless. He has the audacity to sneer and confirm HE will be buy Rangers FC saying it will be cheaper for him to buy them as a liqudated company rather than thru a CVA where he would have been paying a derogatory 9 or possibly 10p in the £. He snarls out a comment that all the players MUST be transferred into the new Rangers 2012 club!! Then he glares at the interviewer to describe that it's not only 'UNFAIR' to GRFC but to the fans of all Scottish clubs to punish them. I'd love to hear his thoughts on not punishing your normal common or garden thief/bank robber. They should be relegated to the Scottish non league system never mind Div 3. He then goes on to say that if Rangers are relegated other clubs who have budgeted, something Rangers have not done for years, will suffer hardship not being visited by 1000s of Rangers fans 3 or 4 times a season. Ironically this could level out Scottish football for the next 3 or 4 years at least because surely the fans of this club will go and see them whoever they play. What an unexpected boost to the lower leagues in Scotland. Surely not all of their fans are glory hunters? My last point, as I could write a book complaining of the unfairness of Rangers FC to society in general never mind unfair to the SFA. How does Mr Green know he can buy the liquidated club for £5.5mil? I know a liquidated club loses it's players due to non payment of salaries so cant sell a few players to raise a few million, which is something the club could and should have done during the last few seasons if the people owning the club had any morals at all. But no they wanted European and domestic glory no matter what the cost. BUT ignoring the value of any players who loyally remain at the club or who are press ganged into staying, not many I would hazard a guess. What is IBROX worth? What is their training ground Murray Park worth? Just taking those 2 assets alone, are they only worth £5.5mil..?? Something still stinks north of the border and it ain't haggis. well put BP....this isn't just about the taxman though I agree that is bad enough....hundreds of small business will be owed money by Rangers and some may well go to the wall themselves because of their behaviour
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Post by bp on Jun 13, 2012 6:27:55 GMT
well put BP....this isn't just about the taxman though I agree that is bad enough....hundreds of small business will be owed money by Rangers and some may well go to the wall themselves because of their behaviour Eus' that was my next point but I thought people would give up the will to live reading my ramblings. Just think how many businesses and peoples livelihoods have been put in jeopardy by these morally corrupt ne'er do wells. £21mil in tax and NI that they informed the tax office they had taken thru players wages. £75mil in tax that they have tried to hide by paying players overseas. Multi millions of pounds in unpaid debts to local businesses and their own employees. This is corruption on an industrial scale and would end with people in jail in any other form of industry. I don't blame this Mr Green for trying to get the liquidated club for £5.5 million. At that cost he will be getting the best deal anyone will get for many a year to come with the current financial state of the planet. I just wish they would all have a little more respect for us and stop belly aching about how unfair the system is to them. The Great Train Robbery was for £2.2 mil and they were sentenced to 25 years, everyone at that club has just washed their hands and walked away. It's an absolute scandal.
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Post by RoryTheRanger on Jun 13, 2012 9:22:13 GMT
From what I've read about Rangers recently I agree with bp completely.
Only people I feel sorry for are the fans.
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Post by Macmoish on Jun 13, 2012 9:45:40 GMT
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Post by Markqpr on Jun 13, 2012 9:58:16 GMT
This is corruption on an industrial scale and would end with people in jail in any other form of industry. Apart from the Banking industry where you would receive a bonus and/or a massive golden handshake. Inadequate legislation which can be exploited by those with low moral standing will only lead to this scenario every time. I don't blame this Mr Green for trying to get the liquidated club for £5.5 million. At that cost he will be getting the best deal anyone will get for many a year to come with the current financial state of the planet And yet he's still complaining! Makes me wonder if all his noise and protestations are so that no-one notices he's only paying £5.5m for the lot. Absolutely disgraceful. From now on small local businesses should refuse to supply football clubs with goods and services unless paid up front, offering them the type of protection that the over paid players get already, otherwise this is an indicative event that will only be repeated up and down the country from Portsmouth to Glasgow until such protection for the honest businessman is put in place.
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Post by bp on Jun 13, 2012 10:32:32 GMT
Apart from the Banking industry where you would receive a bonus and/or a massive golden handshake. Yes I take your point. Green puts the debt of GRFC at his calculations as being between £95mil and £105mil. Which completely ignores the £75mil the HMRC claim is missing re the overseas payments. So ignoring the tax issues at best this club has knocked companies big and small, sole traders and even it's own employees for £74mil.....!!!! How on gods earth are they allowed to buy the liquidated asset for £5.5mil and go forward as if nothing has happened. I tell you now I would give £6mil tomorrow but the administrators say no other bids can be accepted no matter how much better the offer due to legal contractual agreements now in place. Somebody please explain that to me. Sorry to labour these points but I am aghast at this, but as Rory says and heaven knows we R's fans can sympathise. How must their fans feel? I'll say it one more time, A SCANDAL OF INDUSTRIAL PROPORTIONS.!!
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obk
Dave Sexton
Posts: 1,516
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Post by obk on Jun 13, 2012 16:46:12 GMT
Imagine 4th division football at Ibrox. Would be an interesting experiment, I wonder what sort of attendances they would get.
Glory glory to the hibees, glory glory to the hibees! (two of my sisters used to live in Edinburgh).
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Post by Macmoish on Jun 13, 2012 19:39:03 GMT
SWTS.sport.image.e Rangers takeover: PFA statement in full Published on Wednesday 13 June 2012 19:32 PFA Scotland today released the following statement regarding the players currently under contract at Rangers. PFA Scotland as the trade union for Professional Footballers in Scotland is the only body involved in the Rangers FC insolvency whose paramount concern is the safeguarding of the rights and interests of the Players. We are delighted therefore to note that both Mr Charles Green and Duff and Phelps agree with the union’s position that that the Transfer of Undertaking (Protection of Employment) Regulations 2006 (“TUPEâ€) applies to the Players’ contracts of employment in the event of a transfer from The Rangers FC PLC to a newco. The purpose of TUPE is to protect employees’ terms and conditions of employment in exactly this type of situation. Should the Players wish to transfer across to the newco, TUPE ensures that they do so on their existing contractual terms. Equally TUPE affords every employee the statutory right to object to the transfer; employers cannot select which parts of TUPE they wish to apply. If a Player wishes to object to being transferred his contract of employment would immediately come to an end leaving him with no contract, no dismissal and no right to compensation from either oldco or newco. Both the Club and the Player are then free from their contractual obligations. With regard to the question of registration, we are unclear on what legal basis the football authorities would be entitled to withhold the transfer of registration of any Player in this situation. The European Court of Justice ruling in the case of Bosman is authority for the view that professional footballers are workers like anyone else and are entitled to exercise their right to Freedom of Movement when out of contract. PFA Scotland’s role is to ensure that whatever the decision of each individual Player, they are furnished with expert advice and guidance. Our members have the benefit of specialist employment law advice from the union’s Solicitors Bridge Litigation and our appointed Counsel, Brian Napier QC. Our legal team considers that there are a number of legal remedies open to a player in the event of their Registration being withheld including the right to petition the Court of Session for a fast track Judicial Review Hearing. It may well be the case that all of the Players wish to transfer across to the newco and if that is the case then PFA Scotland will ensure that their rights are protected. The players however are becoming increasingly unhappy at having to operate in an information vacuum whilst their futures are portrayed by others as being a fait accompli with no proper communication and consultation taking place. The players are being asked to decide upon their future with so many uncertainties involved . Unanswered questions such as which division the new club will actually play in, whether there be any sporting sanctions against the club, whether the club be eligible to play in the Scottish Cup and whether there will be a registration embargo. One or more of these factors may have an influence on a Professional Footballer’s career – particularly since it a career that is relatively short lived. TUPE also places a legal obligation on both the existing company and the newco to formally consult with the union/its members over a proposed transfer. Accordingly, PFA Scotland now looks forward to hearing from Mr Green and being furnished with information regarding the proposed transfer together with details of his plans for the future of the club. www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/rangers-takeover-pfa-statement-in-full-1-2352576
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Post by Lonegunmen on Jun 14, 2012 2:33:16 GMT
So the 2 team SPL will now be the 1 team SPL. Guess that makes Celtic next seasons champions already??
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Post by ozzh00p on Jun 14, 2012 5:14:08 GMT
From what I've read about Rangers recently I agree with bp completely. Only people I feel sorry for are the fans. Dont waste your sympathy on them Rory.Horrible bigot fans for a horrible bigot club.Their fans aint 'connected' to Chelsea fans for their love of football.
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Post by Macmoish on Jun 14, 2012 8:13:53 GMT
SPORTING LIFE
ALLY McCOIST 'POISED TO RESIGN'
Ally McCoist's future is in doubt amid speculation he is poised to resign his Rangers position. Unconfirmed reports from Glasgow suggest McCoist is ready to quit Ibrox after uncovering a plot to replace him as boss. The 49-year-old's hero status with supporters has only been strengthened by his handling of the crisis which will see the club liquidated later this week. But the latest reports claim Charles Green, who fronts the consortium poised to reform Rangers as a 'newco', is looking elsewhere for a manager. More to follow.. www.sportinglife.com/football/scottishpremier/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=soccer/12/06/14/manual_085437.html
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Post by bp on Jun 14, 2012 8:18:51 GMT
Not Harry McRedknapp, surely???
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Post by cpr on Jun 14, 2012 9:53:01 GMT
Not Harry McRedknapp, surely??? HMRC would be so chuffed with that, wouldn't they!
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Post by Markqpr on Jun 14, 2012 9:57:40 GMT
Not Harry McRedknapp, surely??? HMRC would be so chuffed with that, wouldn't they! What would his dog do with all that money?
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Post by cpr on Jun 14, 2012 9:59:32 GMT
HMRC would be so chuffed with that, wouldn't they! What would his dog do with all that money? Same as he did last time, bury it.
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finney
Dave Mangnall
Posts: 175
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Post by finney on Jun 14, 2012 12:59:41 GMT
Now watch Celtic go belly up as well
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Post by kempton ranger on Jun 14, 2012 13:16:16 GMT
Now watch Celtic go belly up as well With the "old firm clash" finished , the SPL loses its biggest fixture . It also becomes a 1 horse race which makes the league even more boring than it already is. So on that basis it becomes less attractive to sponsors and investment , so I make you right "Celtic " will be next.
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Post by Macmoish on Jun 14, 2012 13:21:35 GMT
I don't believe Rangers won't be back (and not because I want them back!). I presume there will just be a Rangers2012 and it will just go back to being one of the top two clubs in Scotland.
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Post by kempton ranger on Jun 14, 2012 13:28:56 GMT
I don't believe Rangers won't be back (and not because I want them back!). I presume there will just be a Rangers2012 and it will just go back to being one of the top two clubs in Scotland. Mac would they not go the same way as Portsmouth ? Surly they would have to sell every asset , then that in turn would have a big impact on there results. If they dig there way out of this mess by exploiting a loop hole somewhere then HMRC will not like that one bit.
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Post by haqpr1963 on Jun 14, 2012 13:59:10 GMT
I don't believe Rangers won't be back (and not because I want them back!). I presume there will just be a Rangers2012 and it will just go back to being one of the top two clubs in Scotland. Mac would they not go the same way as Portsmouth ? Surly they would have to sell every asset , then that in turn would have a big impact on there results. If they dig there way out of this mess by exploiting a loop hole somewhere then HMRC will not like that one bit. All in all a pretty shameful episode. I don't think anyone comes out of it with their reputations intact......
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finney
Dave Mangnall
Posts: 175
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Post by finney on Jun 14, 2012 14:52:42 GMT
The only way round it for Rangers would be to sell up and then move in with Queen's Park for a while the whole thing is a mess then again so where we for so many years. There for the grace of god and all that.
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Post by rousdonhoops on Jun 14, 2012 20:13:50 GMT
if they do survive their only hope is to form a mini-europe league with teams from scandanavia, belgium, the balkans and maybe portugal. There's no future in the two horse race that is the SPL
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Post by Markqpr on Jun 14, 2012 20:56:25 GMT
The only way round it for Rangers would be to sell up and then move in with Queen's Park Then the answer to the question 'Which league clubs play their home games at Hampden Park?' would be Queen's Park and Rangers!
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Post by cpr on Jun 14, 2012 21:20:19 GMT
The only way round it for Rangers would be to sell up and then move in with Queen's Park Then the answer to the question 'Which league clubs play their home games at Hampden Park?' would be Queen's Park and Rangers! Rather than using and, you could have used a comma, thus sparking a comma or apostrophe war! ;D
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