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Post by eusebio13 on Apr 15, 2009 21:26:49 GMT
You know I'd really like to get past the stupidity, injustice and treachery of the last two or three months. I really wish I could just get over it and move on but I can't help but feel we'll be here again next Autumn and nothing has changed at the core of the club.
So how can I recover my sense of steadfast commitment to this club? Help me recover my positive outlook and help me move on.
Suggestions
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Post by londonranger on Apr 15, 2009 21:42:11 GMT
Ingham wrote a very interesting piece about seeing them as they are. Think it was a page back, I found it helpful. Enjoy a win be more of an observer and understand the play which You seem very knowledgeable about.
Remember that most teams wind up losing eventually and we have ben a losing team for a long time. this was his thesis.
For myself what transpired last month represents the new owners getting their feet wet, watching the money closeley, and getting involved too much in the on field activities. This may continue for a while. Also the Italian character is loud bombastic, argumentative. We have to get used to them, they have to get used to us. Hope its some help Eus, I met an 80 year old recently who works a good week at a stressful job. I asked him what was the secret to his being fit and working. He said I learned over the years never to get too angry about anything.
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Post by QPR Report on Apr 15, 2009 22:18:13 GMT
You read the interview/Q&A/Press release whatever and can say, x, y, z and you go away maybe thinking well maybe everything's ok.
And then you start thinking again and wonder: Is it really OK? Things really like that? Is this how things are going to be like?
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Post by londonranger on Apr 15, 2009 22:25:54 GMT
Dont give too much credence to press releases, at least I dont. Also you dont really know who wrote it.
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Post by Zamoraaaah on Apr 16, 2009 9:46:11 GMT
I feel the same Eus. I am hoping that taking my daughter along to the Youth Cup Final on Monday revives my recent flagging support. Our boys took a huge blow when they also lost their manager in a shabby way so I'm sure this final means a lot to them. It's also nice to watch a game where the players are still playing for the love of the game, their mates and the shirt and haven't yet reached the point where football has become a job. For a short term fix in-between I will be watching old Rangers youtube clips and reading the old articles on LFW, VitalQPR, IndyR's and the old photo thread. That should hopefully bring back memories of better times and raise a smile.
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Post by Markqpr on Apr 16, 2009 13:14:26 GMT
You've put up with plastic pitches, Thompson, Wright, Vauxhall Motors and even Pallidini up till now. Are the F1 boys so bad they can make you question your decision to attend games? I am slightly surprised by this. I know it's demoralising but sod them! Supporting QPR has never been easy. We never have had any right to demand anything from the club except once they take our money they kick off at the agreed time and let us watch. That's it. Why now do you feel that things are so bad that you can't go anymore. I don't understand. The football is better than the last 4-5 years and we've never been expected to win much so why change now? The players are not responsible for the board's decisions and it's them I support and you can't do that from outside the ground. Maybe take a step back, have a breath and approach it differently. Instead of focusing on the people sitting in the directors box try and enjoy the football only. They might make it difficult to do so and the football might be rubbish, but as I said at the beginning, nothing new there!
Together we stand. We are QPR.
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Post by eusebio13 on Apr 16, 2009 13:20:24 GMT
Actually Mark points on stoicism is well made, alway good to have a "sod 'em this is mine not yours" approach but I guess I was always going to go, it just the ooomph that's gone out of my motor....I need football viagra
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Post by sirpiechucker on Apr 16, 2009 13:51:56 GMT
I know how you feel eusebio. I remember growing up in Hampshire and nobody supported QPR but everyone used to say they were "my second favourite team". Those days are over. We have become a team who our rivals want to beat because both the club and the media have turned us into something to despise. If we win we are regarded as a club who is trying to buy success and if we lose we are laughed for having supposedly spent vast amounts of money. Our actions over the Derby home match ticket saga annoyed many many people and to win back their respect we need to make both the School End and the ticket price attractive to the average away fan.
To regain further respect we have to do what did years ago and that is to play fantastic football that people admire and be represented by someone that is respected and liked in the game (a Holloway type personality). All of these things are easily achievable and can be quickly done.
Reduce prices the School End and improve facilities Spend money on the playing staff to bring in quality players who play attractive football Don't appoint a Paul Ince, Roy Keane or Dennis Wise figure who are disliked by the majority of opposing fans
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Post by QPR Report on Apr 16, 2009 13:56:16 GMT
Apart from liking us as a "little team" can't be underestimated that from the late 60s and the 70s and much of the 80s, we were a lot of the time playing attractive/non-dirty football, with flair players such as Marsh, Bowles, Currie, Stainrod, etc.
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Post by grumpyolde on Apr 16, 2009 17:59:47 GMT
eusebio
Looking for football viagra ? You only get it watching the stiffs
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Post by sandyhoops on Apr 16, 2009 19:10:23 GMT
You've put up with plastic pitches, Thompson, Wright, Vauxhall Motors and even Pallidini up till now. Are the F1 boys so bad they can make you question your decision to attend games? I am slightly surprised by this. I know it's demoralising but sod them! Supporting QPR has never been easy. We never have had any right to demand anything from the club except once they take our money they kick off at the agreed time and let us watch. That's it. Why now do you feel that things are so bad that you can't go anymore. I don't understand. The football is better than the last 4-5 years and we've never been expected to win much so why change now? The players are not responsible for the board's decisions and it's them I support and you can't do that from outside the ground. Maybe take a step back, have a breath and approach it differently. Instead of focusing on the people sitting in the directors box try and enjoy the football only. They might make it difficult to do so and the football might be rubbish, but as I said at the beginning, nothing new there! Together we stand. We are QPR. Mark - excellent post. I am so with you on this. I was asked the same thing by a fella seriously debating whether or not to renew - by the time I'd finished, he was on the phone to QPR's Box Office and had signed up very happily for another year on the QPR merry-go-round. And Eusebio (can I call you Eus?!) - remember - we are actually improving where it matters ... on the pitch! We will finish this season top London club in the Championship - we haven't been able to say that for a very long time. We'll have more points and a higher position than (just about) any year that we've been in this division. And our squad is improving in quality all the time. We've got an awful lot to look forward to - on the pitch - next season. I'm excited already - maybe I'm sad but hey, that's me ;D
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Post by eusebio13 on Apr 16, 2009 19:55:03 GMT
Sandy you may call me whatever you like.....bizarrely I'm not sure I believe that its all about what happens on the pitch otherwise we'd all support Arsenal or Man Utd...there must be more to it all....don't get me wrong I will definitely be getting new ST but I think I just need to be grumpy for a bit
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Post by sandyhoops on Apr 16, 2009 21:54:59 GMT
Eus - go for it man. Grump all you like - we're big boys (and girl!) - we can take it.
And you'll feel better in the morning - or Sunday morning if we turn the Wolves over and delay their party by one week ;-)
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Post by sandyhoops on Apr 16, 2009 22:13:56 GMT
And Eus, my man, go over to the thread on "Clive Whittingham on QPR Under Briatore" - read his article.
I think it'll go a long way to cheering you up :-D
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Post by hoopsofessex on Apr 19, 2009 21:13:33 GMT
Z the yoff game is on Tues at 7pm mate. I will also be headding down for it, first yoff game this season, normaly I get to a few. Call me a glory hunter ;D
I too have been affected by all the goings on. It ain't nice right now to be an R. I do have faith though that things will change, I put a lot of time and effort into trying to get that change for the better, I would not do that if I thought I was flogging a dead horse.
The yoff game maybe just the tonic we need right now, maybe see you there, I will be in the Bok pre game.
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Post by eusebio13 on Apr 19, 2009 21:17:35 GMT
Good to see you here hoopsofessex....I suspect a new manager and a new striker or two and I'll be re-enthused
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Post by cpr on Apr 19, 2009 21:43:31 GMT
Eus, thought about this for two DAYS AND STILL CAN'T COME UP WITH ANYTHING TO HELP YOU MOVE ON.
Bl00dy caps lock
The Ladies are cup winners.
What Mark, Sandy, Zed and Essex said.
That's it mate thus far.
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Post by scarletpimple on Apr 19, 2009 22:31:54 GMT
Been feeling the same as Eus, but slowly coming round to the fact if i dont renew, i'll miss me sats like hell, drug, or been supporting them for too many years, but i have been lucky in that i have seen all the good times, and that outways the bad one's.
So going to renew on sat, but my son who keeps me company cant afford to....going to miss him, not sitting next to me.
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Post by hoopsofessex on Apr 19, 2009 23:47:13 GMT
I will be re enthused as the pre seasons start, as I always am..not enough for me to renew, the football dont dictate that, the club do! Manager will make no difference unless there is change so A good striker will make a difference reguardless..less of course he upsets the wrong people!!!!!!
Heres hoping ;D
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Post by weavie on Apr 21, 2009 0:44:46 GMT
hey if scarlet pimples son isnt going to sit next to him maybe ill get a season ticket right next to the scarlet
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Post by cpr on Apr 21, 2009 5:19:39 GMT
I think that is a must weavie, he would love that! ;D
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Post by weavie on Apr 21, 2009 7:17:17 GMT
eusabio...you were voted top postyer on the WATRBs just three months ago youve got to involved with sousa i loved him to but he was another wilkins thats why i led a campaign to destroy him and next season when we crush all that go up against us you can say thanks weavie you were right he had no tactics at all except playing endless seven a side matches to prove to his players that he could still play a bit it may help you to know that i do have some people on the inside at qpr they told me hes useless so i knew sopusa was going to get the boot next season briatore is going to order who ever comes in to play attacking football so be prepared to see some 6-0 wins YES QPR ARE BACK
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Post by eusebio13 on Apr 21, 2009 7:19:34 GMT
Aah DFE you do bring a smile to my face (occasionally)
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Post by QPR Report on Apr 21, 2009 7:26:34 GMT
Although to be honest, "enough is as good as a feast!" Maybe there should be just a Weavie thread, rather than a Weavie comment to every single post as seems to have been the case in the past 24 hours. And I was looking to Weavie to "proslyetize" ror QPR Report on WATRB
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Post by klr on Apr 23, 2009 15:33:02 GMT
You know I'd really like to get past the stupidity, injustice and treachery of the last two or three months. I really wish I could just get over it and move on but I can't help but feel we'll be here again next Autumn and nothing has changed at the core of the club. So how can I recover my sense of steadfast commitment to this club? Help me recover my positive outlook and help me move on. Suggestions Had to register just to show my support for such an exceptional post. I feel that something at our club has died within our club in the last few weeks or so. Its a bad feeling that isnt showing signs of going away any time soon. To use a QBP'ism "Something doesnt sit right with me" about the whole affair.
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Post by eusebio13 on Apr 23, 2009 17:13:34 GMT
Hi KLR , I've been watching you fight the good fight from afar, keep it up mate. You should post here a bit, always enjoyed the debate (not that we always agreed)....we will of course recover because in the end these gauche egoists are not the club, we are.
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Post by klr on Apr 23, 2009 21:24:15 GMT
A FINE MAN: IN SOUSA WE TRUST.
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Post by Zamoraaaah on Apr 23, 2009 21:32:39 GMT
Welcome klr. Like Eus I also enjoyed reading your posts. Keep up the great work.
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Post by sirpiechucker on Apr 24, 2009 7:42:08 GMT
KLR has moved over to "the dark side" - good man!
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ingham
Dave Sexton
Posts: 1,896
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Post by ingham on Apr 24, 2009 11:18:00 GMT
What an inspiring thread to read. A variety of viewpoints, taxing questions, complex issues, all aired distinctively and in a friendly and supportive fashion.
I'd say we all cope with it in our different ways, eusebio.
Personally speaking, I don't take the players seriously. Like the managers, the directors, and the investors, money is the reason they're here. So, in a very real sense, I don't support them at all. I support the Club, and identify with my fellow supporters, nobody else.
To tell the truth, I don't know who the players are, these days. I don't need to, either. I watch their feet. Ask myself how long their working day is, and why few, if any, of them have ever learned the basics. First touch, and accuracy of passing and shooting being a good starting point. Matthews, Finney, George Best, Cantona among others worked meticulously at their game. Best! Of all people! Out there on his own with a few footballs. Why is it the greatest players feel they need to work at their game, and go on learning, and the others - judging from their words and performances - never feel that they have to bother.
As the delightful Frank Worthington said, 'whether you're fourteen, twenty-four, or thirty-four, you should never stop working at your game'. He had a reputation as a 'lightweight' but Bill Shankly of all people wanted him for Liverpool, and agreed terms, but Frank failed the medical. And they weren't an outfit that tolerated slackers.
I don't take any notice of managers either, really. I never want them out. We're told they work hard, and put in long hours, and that's enough for me. When the players are doing the same, we'll be on our way. But as long as we never hear any of the players coming forward to explain why they can't control the ball, pass it, or carry out the manager's instructions, we aren't.
I find it difficult to believe that our managers tell them to lose the ball, waste it, or miss the target. But when it happens, the players know they can just sit back and the manager will take the rap for their incompetence.
In my view, we can't appoint a manager to achieve success. That's why we sack so many of them, and virtually every other Club does as well. Arithmetic is important in football. It's one of the things that make football quite different to business. Nothing is relative or subjective. Either you scored more goals or you didn't. Either you won the trophy or you didn't. Similarly, 1 Club wins, 91 lose. Without a crystal ball, no Club is appointing a winner. None of them have any idea what the future holds, but they know the odds are vastly against success. Even for the Uniteds. They've failed to win most of the competitions they've entered over the years.
So I expect the manager to take take training and perform the other tasks of his trade, not to win. Certainly, he can come up with tactics, too, if he likes, although my feeling is that this is a big mistake. Instead of talking tactics, they should talk technique, and shift the emphasis to the players' shortcomings.
After all, how many players have performed so well their Clubs haven't got into debt paying their inflated wages? Few, if any. And how many have won Premiership title medals or Champions League winners' medals. Again, virtually none. It is very difficult to find a winner. And even if you do, there's no guarantee he will go on doing it.
Numbers are important in football, and so is size. Even when we nearly won the League, we remained small. We virtually never filled Loftus Road, even in that golden season. We rarely came close to filling it. A couple of big London derbies, the visit of United and Liverpool, and the final home game.
Similarly, when Chelsea were nearly relegated to the third tier, despite the miniscule attendances, they remained big (though remarkably unsuccessful for their size). It's difficult to think of a Club which has changed its size since QPR came into the League in the early 1920s.
Suggesting we're all locked together, like a pyramid built on failure, and the successful Clubs need all that failure, they can't come out on top in any competition unless all the other Clubs obligingly lose.
That's why even multimillionaires and billionaires can't make their Clubs dominant. Firstly, there are too many billionaires, and only one winning Club. Secondly, the money they're 'putting into' the Club isn't their money at all, it's the Club's, so spending, even of borrowed money, is determined by the size of the Club. And thirdly, the size of the various Clubs is fixed. There is some fluidity, but if a little Club overperforms, it will only make an impact higher up the League if the big ones underperform. And they won't all do that for long.
The unfortunate thing about the last couple of decades is that failure, losses and debt has been dressed up in optimism, and substituted for talent, achievement, and profitability. The investors are wealthy, but the Club isn't. The emphasis is always on how much the players' earn, and how much the Clubs will get from the Premier League, but never on how costly it is to the Clubs, how much they're losing week by week, and how little there is to play for now. The days of Ipswich and Burnley winning the League, and QPR coming close, are long gone. Even Everton, Villa and Spurs are second-rate no-hopers now.
This has undermined our sense of reality, so we find it difficult to face up to the facts, so our sense of what is positive and negative has become confused, and often reversed.
For me, facts are positive. If we play badly and someone says we're playing badly, that's positive, because it's true. If someone says we'll play better, that's negative, because it isn't.
We're all optimistic because we're hoping for the best, and trying to be the best, but that way of thinking has gone out of fashion because it recognises that success is vanishingly rare, and the moneylenders who are pumping vast sums out of the Clubs in the form of debt can only justify what they're doing on the basis that the Clubs will be successful in the end.
They won't. If all the League Clubs win the League over the next 92 years, it means 91 years of failure for all of them. If one club wins it, it means 92 years of failure for all the rest.
We might be the one winner. Of course we might. But we'll never even take the first step until we learn to keep what we'd like to achieve quite separate in our minds from what we've actually achieved.
Reality is all in the past, the facts are all in the past. Nobody knows anything at all about the future. But we could do worse than ask ourselves two questions. What do the players actually DO? And why are they paid so much for doing it so badly. 'Badly' being defined on the basis of the Club's annual losses. If they were paid £100 a week, they'd be doing very well ;D.
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