eskey8
Dave Sexton
www.cycle2austria.com
Posts: 2,274
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Post by eskey8 on Apr 7, 2011 13:12:27 GMT
More examples of points deductions - where points have been gained (from the same article);
Last season Hartlepool lost three points for playing the suspended Gary Liddell in their 2-0 win over Brighton.
The season before, Crystal Palace lost the point they earned in their 0-0 draw against Sheffield United after loanee Rui Fonte played, despite his loan having expired days before.
In 2008, Leeds named too many loan players in their squad against Burnley (clubs were, and still are allowed five, they named six), and because they lost 2-1, they were fined, but not deducted any points.
There have been occasions where it has been reported that other clubs have made the same mistake and not faced deductions (including Swansea against Wrexham and Boston in 2004 and Sheffield Wednesday against Stoke in 2008), in all occasions further investigation shows that each club spotted their error (or had it pointed out to them) and withdrew one of the players in the squad before kickoff.
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Post by moriarty on Apr 7, 2011 13:19:29 GMT
If the decision is announced on 6th May, and we have 28 days to appeal - the play-offs will have been decided and finished, so is it possible we could start next season with whatever the outcome of the appeal?
Luton started the season before last on a deficit of points (due to administration I believe), but could we start in the Premier League on a minus point situation due to this case?
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Post by Macmoish on Apr 7, 2011 13:19:53 GMT
And yet we get these absolutely categorical assurances by a certain poster known for his "ITK" ties to you-know-who, that absolutely no way are we getting a points deduction. The fact is that there is no way on earth that the club or Paladini would want us to expect a points deduction. Even if we are found "guilty."
Maybe that will be the end result. But I'm not nearly so sanguine.
My own expectation: With No ITK Information is that we'll be found guilty. And we'll have points deducted. But purely by chance it will be "calibrated" so that the points deducted will be less than our Championship lead. So we'll remain champions with an asteric.
But of course for this to happen is that we have to big enough safety gap so the FA can do what they think is right - without real consquences for the season's results - and possible legal countermeasures by QPR
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Post by moriarty on Apr 7, 2011 13:28:25 GMT
I wondered, if we were deducted points, would the deduction take effect prior to the outcome of any appeal?
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eskey8
Dave Sexton
www.cycle2austria.com
Posts: 2,274
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Post by eskey8 on Apr 7, 2011 13:34:24 GMT
According to BBC (on the league table) the points have already been deducted from Hereford and Torquay despite it being under appeal.
So yes, even if we choose to appeal we could find ourselves playing in the play-offs.
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eskey8
Dave Sexton
www.cycle2austria.com
Posts: 2,274
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Post by eskey8 on Apr 7, 2011 13:37:34 GMT
The difference being here of course that Ali Faurlin was always registered to play for us - just illegally!!
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Post by moriarty on Apr 7, 2011 13:43:03 GMT
According to BBC (on the league table) the points have already been deducted from Hereford and Torquay despite it being under appeal. So yes, even if we choose to appeal we could find ourselves playing in the play-offs. That suggests to me, that any appeal, will be a kangaroo court........
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eskey8
Dave Sexton
www.cycle2austria.com
Posts: 2,274
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Post by eskey8 on Apr 7, 2011 14:04:37 GMT
I agree moriarty, however does that not make the appeal process a farce?
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coitparkrangers
Ian Holloway
Belknap Subbuteo League Apertura Champions 2010/11
Posts: 401
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Post by coitparkrangers on Apr 7, 2011 14:08:42 GMT
Yeah I don't think we can compare our case with an unregistered player. Personally I think the people involved in the deal should be sanctioned and not the club, with maybe a suspended penalty/fine for us.
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Post by Macmoish on Apr 7, 2011 14:53:47 GMT
Gillingham Official SiteHENDON ON POINTS DEDUCTIONS Posted on: Thu 07 Apr 2011 Torquay United and Hereford United were both been handed a points deduction, yesterday afternoon, for fielding unregistered players in their npower League Two match on February 1st. A Football Disciplinary Commission has deducted Torquay United one point and Hereford United three points for fielding unregistered players, while the clubs have also both been fined £10,000, of which £2,500 must be paid in the next 28 days. The ruling comes after Torquay selected Jake Robison and Hereford fielded Rob Purdie, despite neither having been registered in time for the Football League's deadline of 12.00pm the day before the match. The one point deduction would leave Torquay level on points with the Gills but retaining their current play-off position by virtue of a superior goal difference. Standing in for Andy Hessenthaler at this morning's press conference, Gills No 2 Ian Hendon expressed the belief that the League's decision to set different points deductions is badly flawed, "If you look at both cases, I can't see how the decision is fair on Hereford, regardless of them winning the game.
"By the sound of things they both made the same mistake, so whether it was one point, or three points for both of them, I think it should have been the same punishment for both sides. If you've both committed the same crime then the punishment should be the same."[/u] The implementation of points deductions will be deferred pending the outcome of any possible appeal. Both Torquay United and Hereford United have 28 days to appeal. www.gillinghamfootballclub.com/page/NewsDetail/0,,10416~2333234,00.html
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Post by harlowranger on Apr 7, 2011 16:27:46 GMT
Does anyone know from what date the new third party rules came out , is there a specific date in September, because everything i read appears to relate to this date and the day he signed his new contract on 5th Oct ?
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Post by harlowranger on Apr 7, 2011 16:38:49 GMT
1ST September these changes were made , so was it Boro,Ipswich,Leics ,Donny ,Millwall,Palace until he re-signed. He played Boro , got injured playing Ipswich missed the next four. Was on the subs bench Norwich but didnt play but this game was after he re-signed anyway. So if it was these 6 games he played in two of them ? Football Agents Regulations Take EffectBack to listIn the wake of the outcry surrounding the role of football agents over the past twelve months, the FA finally published its comparably controversial domestic Football Agents Regulations (the "Regulations") in July of this year and which came into effect on 1 September. The Regulations govern the activity of agents authorised by the FA and transactions and activity in the domestic football market, working in tandem with FIFA's Players Agents Regulations which continue to apply to international transactions and activity. The Regulations replace the previous Football Agents Regulations and include guidelines on areas such as dual representation, nepotism and overseas agents. The FA believes that its amendments will help to avoid potential conflicts of interest and enhance the level of transparency within domestic transfer dealings. However, critics such as the Association of Football Agents, who threatened the FA with legal action in April this year in response to the original draft of the Regulations, feel that the numerous restrictions, particularly in relation to the way agents are paid, will only serve to increase wage inflation and may restrain trade. Furthermore, many agents harbour specific concerns regarding the tax implications of the new obligations (which require that all payments to agents having to be made by the player himself), the fact that players are still permitted to represent themselves and that agents acting for a player in a transfer deal now have to wait over a year before they can represent a club in relation to the same player. Finally, it is also likely that those people hoping that the Regulations would prevent another Tevez scandal will be left somewhat underwhelmed following the FA's public acknowledgement that it has only limited power to deal with third-party ownership, as such issues need to be addressed at an international level by FIFA.
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Post by harlowranger on Apr 7, 2011 19:22:21 GMT
Football League Daily - Torquay and Hereford docked points as QPR and Leeds await fate
By Stephen Clark Thursday 07 April 2011 Despite the efforts of the teams on the pitch over the 46 game Npower Football League season, the fate of some clubs could rest in the hands of the game’s administrators, as the football authorities have to deal with off the pitch issues.
The forthcoming weeks could have serious ramifications for two Championship clubs striving for promotion to the Premier League, as Queens Park Rangers and Leeds United who face each other on the final day of the season, may see their dreams of Premier League football taken away for issues not relating to their ability on the pitch.
Yesterday saw two clubs from League Two docked points for administrative errors relating to moves which went through on the final day of the January transfer window. Torquay United and Hereford United were deducted three points and one point respectively as they failed to register players in time for their clash on the 1st February.
Hereford, who won the game 3-1 have lost the three points they earned as Rob Purdie, who was signed on a free from Oldham Athletic, was not registered until 2.30 pm, with the deadline being Noon on the 31st January. Torquay were deducted a point with their signing of Jake Robinson on loan from Shrewsbury not being completed until 10pm.
The decision has left Hereford just five points clear of the relegation spots, and was greeted with dismay by the Bulls chairman, David Keyte. He told BBC Hereford & Worcester: "Two clubs offended in exactly the same way for the same match and our expectation was that the penalty would be the same. We have left the hearing to discover that Torquay have been penalised just one point to our three with an identical fine so that has left us a little bit bemused and disappointed.”
Torquay remain in 7th place and still in the last play-off spot, but the gap to Gillingham is down to one point. Both clubs were also fined £10,000.
While QPR are dominating the Championship and seem destined to return to the Premier League, there is still the possibility of that dream being snatched away. The runaway leaders face seven charges relating to third party ownership and unauthorised payments to agents in the transfer of Alejandro Faurlin.
An independent commission will deliver their verdict on 6th May, the day before their final game of the season. The third party ownership is similar to the controversial deal which saw Carlos Tevez join West Ham United in 2006/07. Ironically, Neil Warnock - whose Sheffield United side were relegated thanks to Tevez’s contribution for the Hammers and vehemently argued for a points deduction - now sees the boot on the other foot with the possibility of that punishment being given to his side.
Another promotion hopeful, Leeds United, may face further investigation into their ownership should they be promoted to the Premier League. The clubs CEO, Shaun Harvey, told the Culture, Media and Sport committee on football governance last month that the owners of Leeds United were not known beyond it being a holding company, FSF, based in the West Indies. Following this revelation Premier League chairman Richard Scudamore told the same committee yesterday that Leeds would have to reveal their true owners should they earn promotion this season.
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coitparkrangers
Ian Holloway
Belknap Subbuteo League Apertura Champions 2010/11
Posts: 401
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Post by coitparkrangers on Apr 7, 2011 20:04:59 GMT
I can't believe they're waiting until the day before the final game. We can't celebrate promotion or the title until May 6th. No matter what we, or others, do before then. An absolute farce!
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Post by 0hwestlondon on Apr 7, 2011 20:20:09 GMT
According to BBC (on the league table) the points have already been deducted from Hereford and Torquay despite it being under appeal. So yes, even if we choose to appeal we could find ourselves playing in the play-offs. so what happens if we win a appeal and got knocked out of the play offs, they would then have to reinstate us as champions, then do the play offs again, that would cause uproar.
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Post by harlowranger on Apr 7, 2011 20:36:43 GMT
Maybe there is no appeal ohwest? the points will come off that Friday and we are stuffed as the playoffs are the next weekend ! Lets keep racking and stacking these points , 3 wins on the trot , i say go for it lads , lets get another bl--dy three and try to have 88 points in the bin before the tough Cardiff trip!
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Post by 0hwestlondon on Apr 7, 2011 21:05:51 GMT
yeah thats it harlow we have to go for it, cpr had me all calm about it, but after hereford/torquay i'm bricking it again, i know there different charges but i'm worried again, cpr where are you i need reassuring.
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jayh
Dave Mangnall
Posts: 110
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Post by jayh on Apr 7, 2011 22:04:27 GMT
Reading the comments on the message boards, i can't believe the difference of opinions over what may happen, my head is well and truly done in from this. i actually feel ill with worry. Mental Torture! And what i can't fathom is some people are mentioning one charge, some are mentioning the question of false information, and the sad reality is nobody knows, Do the FA really want this to drag on in the summer. I suspect no, if they punish Rangers harshly it will be appealed and would drag on and on. I worry though because i actually think the FA being the organisation it is wouldn't want another team in the Premier League with a tiny capacity (that's the conspirist in me talking)
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Post by maudesfishnchips on Apr 7, 2011 22:59:00 GMT
there are seven charges stacked against us by the FA,
they do not charge unless they know. The FA are a regulatory institution, not a policing force. the FA are here to issue penaltys on the breach of their rules. As to others in the 'know' (even though it's b*llshit) on various sites, about six of the charges being dropped, it does not matter.
We will have points deducted, Neil has said this in his comments, "I've told my players to enjoy themselves" and " i will let my thoughts known when it's finished". On first reading those comments, i thought they were positive towards the outcome of the hearing, but on reflection, they are quite negative.
and also the FA have not disclosed when the semi finals of the play offs will be held, says to me that they are waiting on something.
I am real sorry to sound so negative, I like every QPR supporter was sick to the stomach on hearing these charges, and i still am.
But what makes me feel that little bit better, is that i have seen a team this season, that has stood head and shoulders above all the others in this league, i will go one further and say, more so than any QPR team, in my supporting years. that is for debate, i know.
we shall overcome.
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Post by Bushman on Apr 7, 2011 23:11:49 GMT
This is the time to keep calm and continue to get behind the team and manager. That is all we can do.
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jayh
Dave Mangnall
Posts: 110
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Post by jayh on Apr 7, 2011 23:12:04 GMT
I take it by your comment maudesfishnchips in your opinion points deducted to stop us going up But really nobody knows and what most of us are going on is gut instinct which in a lot of us is differing from day to day It's very sad this that this great team and us the fans have had this shit thrown on us.
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Post by maudesfishnchips on Apr 7, 2011 23:15:29 GMT
This is the time to keep calm and continue to get behind the team and manager. That is all we can do. so true
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Post by maudesfishnchips on Apr 7, 2011 23:25:03 GMT
I take it by your comment, points deducted to stop the club going up. correct jay, enjoy the way QPR are playing, we do not need to test our ability, what ever the out come, prem or not, we know QPR , this season, has been a joy.
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Post by londonranger on Apr 8, 2011 2:10:55 GMT
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Post by Lonegunmen on Apr 8, 2011 3:25:45 GMT
If I have read this all correctly, Faurlin might only cost us in the games he played - 6 points. I can live with that if we were guilty of anything. If we are innocent however, Party on dudes!
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Post by Macmoish on Apr 8, 2011 6:50:28 GMT
It's actually time to go shopping for the "Goodbye to Gianni' gift We get fined one single penny - forget a possibly much larger fine...or pointd deduction - Get him out of here. Enough already. How many times...?. As for his handful of "defenders" - who go "above and beyond the call of duty...."
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Post by Lonegunmen on Apr 8, 2011 7:11:24 GMT
Rephrase that please Mac... "If we get found guilty of anything, get him out of here."
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Post by Macmoish on Apr 8, 2011 21:58:59 GMT
Bradford Telegraph and Argus
Any appeal against FA ruling not set to be heard until final shake-up of seasonFriday 8th April 2011 By Simon Parker » City will be well advised to watch out for Jake Robinson this afternoon. In those hazy days of last summer, when we all dreamed of a Peter Taylor-inspired promotion parade, Robinson inflicted the first puncture on the bubble. His hat-trick in the opening game at Shrewsbury delivered a dose of harsh reality that the season about to unfold may not be the expected procession. Surprisingly the treble didn’t do Robinson’s club prospects much good either. By the end of January he had gone out on loan to this weekend’s opponents Torquay. But the point he will be keen to make at Valley Parade has nothing to do with his parent employers. Robinson and the high-flying Gulls are desperate to haul back the one they have been docked by the Football League. Thanks to the slow-turning wheels of authority, the repercussions of Torquay’s defeat at Hereford two months ago – when both sides fielded ineligible players – are only now being felt. The offending game could not have seemed more inconsequential at the time. A Plainmoor crowd of just 1,680 saw debutant Robinson score within ten minutes and Hereford hit back three times to win. It later emerged that neither Robinson nor Hereford’s Rob Purdie were clear to play. Remember Taylor’s grumbling about Scott Dobie having to sit out the first game of his loan from St Johnstone? Just as well City didn’t try to pull a fast one. The mass of red tape on the final day of the transfer window caused the confusion. League rules state that any players signed after midday before the window shuts cannot feature in the next round of games. Both had put pen to paper in the afternoon. To add to the confusion, Purdie was already at Hereford. He’d been there since October on a three-month loan from Oldham. Hereford didn’t think twice about the timing of the documentation when they made the move permanent – and paid the price when the league commission finally came up with a ruling on Wednesday. Hereford lost the three points they had won that night and have slipped back to the brink of the relegation dogfight again. Torquay were docked one, a punishment that takes on added significance given their recent charge into play-off contention. Torquay still have time to lodge an appeal, which could happen as late as the final week of the season. Imagine the chaos that could create. They have become a test case – the first occasion, apparently, in Football League history of a club earning minus points from a game. Anyone seen the lid for that can of worms? So the punishment also implies that Robinson and Torquay were more in the wrong than when West Ham played Carlos Tevez illegally for half a season. The Argentinian had been registered before the outside world knew of his third-party ownership. By the time that was clear, it would have been too late. But hey, he just carried on playing and single-handedly kept the Hammers in the Premier League at Sheffield United’s expense. Sure West Ham got whacked hard in the pocket but that was nothing compared to the dosh they were guaranteed by surviving at the top table. Their precious points tally remained intact. The Blades have never recovered and sit on the brink of joining neighbours Wednesday in League One. Neil Warnock, meanwhile, faces his own uncomfortable inquisition on player ownership over QPR’s Alejandro Faurlin. That hearing is also scheduled for just five days before the final league games. Another piece of inspired timing. Torquay’s appeal – if they put one in as expected – could be considered at the same time. No prize for guessing which verdict would hog all the publicity. But the league have made a rod for their own back with the Robinson ruling. That could prove the bigger issue in time. www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/sport/8964769.Points_deduction_may_cause_chaos/?ref=rss
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Post by Macmoish on Apr 8, 2011 22:01:19 GMT
Is that accurate re the points deduction being changed to at once? Bulls News
Friday, April 08, 2011 Torquay Still Considering AppealBy Bobo Torquay are still considering whether they appeal against their single point deduction. Director Bill Phillips told This Is Cornwall that the club would wait for the full written decision before making a move, adding: "Lessons have been learned here. I'm as certain as I can be that it won't reoccur. "It was a human error, and this had a lot of sadness, certainly with [former club secretary] Ann Sandford leaving the club." The site also notes that the Football League have ordered the points deductions to take place immediately, after originally stating they would be officially removed only after the 28 day appeal deadline had passed.bullsnews.blogspot.com/2011/04/torquay-still-considering-appeal.html
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Post by maudesfishnchips on Apr 8, 2011 22:07:44 GMT
oh dear
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