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Post by nomar on Jul 13, 2023 8:16:29 GMT
Social Media Fantasy v Cold Hard Reality
Fantasy:
QPR need to sign quality Premier League players and the best Championship players from other clubs in order to compete at this level.
Reality:
The realities of FFP and Sustainability Rules mean that QPR need to get players in from lower leagues, on low wages, develop them and possibly sell them on for a profit.
What actually happens:
QPR loan in Premier League players, most of whom cannot be arsed to bother even getting onto the pitch, let alone do anything on the rare occasions they do bestow upon us the privilege of them playing a few minutes for us. Fans then get angry when club does not pursue these players the following season.
QPR go and get free and low cost signings from exactly the market we all agree they need to be shopping in. Fans subsequently write off each signing as not good enough for QPR, accuse the board of being cheap and having no ambition and demand everyone connected with the club gets fired.
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Post by Marc on Jul 13, 2023 8:46:01 GMT
The one that really made me laugh:
"We need to sack the board and get a billionaire owner in". They honestly thinking we're not spaffing millions on players because the owner are too tight!
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Post by robindubois on Jul 13, 2023 10:38:45 GMT
The other frequent bit from the uninformed is that we are still paying our FFP fine at 1.5 million per season so cannot spend that money on players.
Well to straighten that one out we are restricted by FFP and the fine payments are excluded when calculating our FFP position. So even if we did not have the fine or had finished paying it, we may be 1.5 million better off in cashflow but we still could not spend it as our FFP position would be the same.
We are stuck in this cycle until the club can run at least on a break even or better still profit making basis - at the moment that is as far away as I am from playing for Man City. - I had a trial there last week but they said I was too old just because I am in my 70's. Pity one game on their salaries and I would be ok for life.
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Post by kerrins on Jul 13, 2023 12:38:34 GMT
Reality Dawns
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dan
Ian Holloway
Posts: 328 
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Post by dan on Jul 15, 2023 2:25:34 GMT
Serious question: when does the FFP aka. Protect the other London teams in the premiership, end for us?
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Post by harr on Jul 15, 2023 6:26:39 GMT
I think we have 5 more seasons of paying the 1.5 Million fine …. Maybe ends before 2028-29 season
Others seem to get away with it much lighter than we did.
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Post by robindubois on Jul 15, 2023 9:18:03 GMT
Serious question: when does the FFP aka. Protect the other London teams in the premiership, end for us? FFP never ends - it's the never ending recurring nightmare. Once you are on the wrong side of the calculations it is extremely difficult to escape. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. We need to come up with 10 million extra operating income per season at least to stand any chance. Unless we drop down a league or 2 and then FFP takes on a slightly different form but is still there. Other teams may have "benefited" from more lenient penalties because of the way we challenged the EFL long and hard, and they made an example of us, but other teams say we got away lightly. All a matter of opinion but FFP is having the opposite effect to what it was intended to do. Restricting some teams from buying players while giving the green light to others is hardly fair play. If they change the name to Football Club Financial Control it would be more accurate. Meanwhile the PL protect their own and the EFL turn in circles guided by administrators who appear to have little idea of finance or football, but penalise clubs who do not tow the EFL line 100%. I wonder what would have happened if Forest had been relegated and back into the clutches of the EFL. I think Harr is right in that we have about 5 instalments to pay on our fine but they have no impact on our current or future FFP calculation. In reality they are still being paid by the shareholders with loans that occasionally are capitalised. |
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Post by surreychad on Jul 15, 2023 17:07:42 GMT
Fantasy - Holy crud, just joined twitter so I can get some idea of the pre-season game today. Was a twitter member for 6 minutes before deleting account. I didn't realise there are so many vile idiots out there calling for GA head already
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Post by harr on Jul 15, 2023 17:19:53 GMT
Serious question: when does the FFP aka. Protect the other London teams in the premiership, end for us? FFP never ends - it's the never ending recurring nightmare. Once you are on the wrong side of the calculations it is extremely difficult to escape. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. We need to come up with 10 million extra operating income per season at least to stand any chance. Unless we drop down a league or 2 and then FFP takes on a slightly different form but is still there. Other teams may have "benefited" from more lenient penalties because of the way we challenged the EFL long and hard, and they made an example of us, but other teams say we got away lightly. All a matter of opinion but FFP is having the opposite effect to what it was intended to do. Restricting some teams from buying players while giving the green light to others is hardly fair play. If they change the name to Football Club Financial Control it would be more accurate. Meanwhile the PL protect their own and the EFL turn in circles guided by administrators who appear to have little idea of finance or football, but penalise clubs who do not tow the EFL line 100%. I wonder what would have happened if Forest had been relegated and back into the clutches of the EFL. I think Harr is right in that we have about 5 instalments to pay on our fine but they have no impact on our current or future FFP calculation. In reality they are still being paid by the shareholders with loans that occasionally are capitalised. How do we come up with the extra 10 million or even 5 million operating income though. A new stadium may have helped with it being able to be used for events and hiring out. How else can we raise funds, I think I biggest chance of bonus cash at the minute is if Palace sell Eze |
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Post by robindubois on Jul 16, 2023 8:39:29 GMT
FFP never ends - it's the never ending recurring nightmare. Once you are on the wrong side of the calculations it is extremely difficult to escape. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. We need to come up with 10 million extra operating income per season at least to stand any chance. Unless we drop down a league or 2 and then FFP takes on a slightly different form but is still there. Other teams may have "benefited" from more lenient penalties because of the way we challenged the EFL long and hard, and they made an example of us, but other teams say we got away lightly. All a matter of opinion but FFP is having the opposite effect to what it was intended to do. Restricting some teams from buying players while giving the green light to others is hardly fair play. If they change the name to Football Club Financial Control it would be more accurate. Meanwhile the PL protect their own and the EFL turn in circles guided by administrators who appear to have little idea of finance or football, but penalise clubs who do not tow the EFL line 100%. I wonder what would have happened if Forest had been relegated and back into the clutches of the EFL. I think Harr is right in that we have about 5 instalments to pay on our fine but they have no impact on our current or future FFP calculation. In reality they are still being paid by the shareholders with loans that occasionally are capitalised. How do we come up with the extra 10 million or even 5 million operating income though. A new stadium may have helped with it being able to be used for events and hiring out. How else can we raise funds, I think I biggest chance of bonus cash at the minute is if Palace sell Eze Exactly - I cannot see a way to increase income/profit by anywhere near the amount required without either promotion or a new stadium which now also seems a non starter unless Mr Reilly has other ideas. That is why despite history I was a strong supporter of a new stadium. Hoos has said several times that not only does Loftus Road restrict attendances and little other income generating possibility, it is also a very expensive ground just to maintain it at an acceptable level and very expensive to run on match days due to the 2 tier stands needing extra stewards, policing etc. Hopes of another Eze sale are far away and even then it would only be a one time hit while what we need is sustained income flow. A one time hit such as the Eze sale could have been the key to unlock the door but we used the money to gamble bringing in the likes of Austin and Johansen and some expensive loans in the outside hope of promotion under Warburton, but 2 second half season blow outs in the last 2 years have left us with no money and a small and weak squad so we are really starting from ground zero and it's a long way up or even to stay where we are. If the gamble with the Eze money had worked, one season back in the PL with careful management of the money and parachute payments if we came straight back down would have bought us a few seasons of comparative financial comfort and the chance to bounce back up but otherwise the cash would only last until our continuing losses put us back where we are now. A couple of long cup runs this season would help generate a few million as a one time event ...... but long cup runs  |
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Post by harr on Jul 16, 2023 12:28:03 GMT
If only we could have a cup run and make a couple of a finals, we just don’t seem to bother in them.
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Post by rickyqpr on Jul 16, 2023 12:42:58 GMT
The hope that I cling to is that one day the EFL will see sense and allow sensible controlled investment.
We are cutting costs to the bone, just to avoid a points deduction. If it were just a fine, our owners have shown that they would just pay it.
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Post by harr on Jul 16, 2023 12:53:59 GMT
Surely they if the back tracked now, it would show the whole thing to be a total farce which we know it is anyhow.
Look at some of the recent club owners, shocking.
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Post by rickyqpr on Jul 16, 2023 13:22:39 GMT
Surely they if the back tracked now, it would show the whole thing to be a total farce which we know it is anyhow. Look at some of the recent club owners, shocking. yep! But the fact that it does not work is my remote hope. Clubs are acquired through complicated corporate structures - to get around the rules. At some point, they may be forced to look at the mess. But as it is the EFL, perhaps not....sadly. |
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Post by robindubois on Jul 16, 2023 13:36:22 GMT
Surely they if the back tracked now, it would show the whole thing to be a total farce which we know it is anyhow. Look at some of the recent club owners, shocking. yep! But the fact that it does not work is my remote hope. Clubs are acquired through complicated corporate structures - to get around the rules. At some point, they may be forced to look at the mess. But as it is the EFL, perhaps not....sadly. Sadly I cannot see the EFL making anything but very small meaningless and slow changes. Firstly I do not believe they understand what they are actually doing with FFP and certainly do not understand the negative impact it is having on clubs, communities and football in general. Plus the fact that they just will never admit they have it wrong and will do anything not to lose face. What I do not understand is that clubs actually voted in favour of many of these restrictions at a short meeting and I can only believe that either they did not have a full understanding of what the rules would mean or that the people representing the clubs at the EFL meetings had no idea what they were doing. All sounded good to the poorer clubs thinking it would create "fair play" with clubs on an equal footing while in practice the exact opposite is true. Meanwhile Arsenal pay 105 million for one player with no problem while if we pay 2 million for one player we are likely to be deducted points of fined (taking even more money out of the game) Sad days for football and the only hope is for the clubs to get together and rebel en bloc to bring down the EFL rules, but there are those clubs who have a vested interest in keeping things as they are just to keep other clubs down and reduce competition while they feather their nests. |
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Post by rickyqpr on Jul 16, 2023 14:01:55 GMT
Clubs who develop young players believe they have an advantage with the current system.
We thought we were ahead of the game when we had the Eze money - until we wasted it (just like we did back in the day with the £6m Newcastle Ferdinand money, and our parachute money).
Millwall hope for £13m for Flemming.
Bristol City have already coined it in and now are looking for £20m for Scott.
Birmingham buying a new team with the Bellingham money.
The problem for all these teams is that should they ever get there (like Luton) they are going to be way short anyway - so it is about developing a yo-yo philosophy.
But when teams fall off (like WBA, Norwich, etc.) major surgery is required.
But it just doesn't work for anyone other than the Prem elite - and even then, look at the Everton mess.
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dan
Ian Holloway
Posts: 328
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Post by dan on Jul 16, 2023 18:14:56 GMT
Clubs who develop young players believe they have an advantage with the current system. We thought we were ahead of the game when we had the Eze money - until we wasted it (just like we did back in the day with the £6m Newcastle Ferdinand money, and our parachute money). Millwall hope for £13m for Flemming. Bristol City have already coined it in and now are looking for £20m for Scott. Birmingham buying a new team with the Bellingham money. The problem for all these teams is that should they ever get there (like Luton) they are going to be way short anyway - so it is about developing a yo-yo philosophy. But when teams fall off (like WBA, Norwich, etc.) major surgery is required. But it just doesn't work for anyone other than the Prem elite - and even then, look at the Everton mess. That tells me it’s all about branding. That’s the name of the game here in the states: How much merchandise can we sell? How much money can we squeeze out of the “names”? And how long can we keep this gravy train going? It sounds like the FFP is very similar to the NCAA (governing body for college sports) here in the US. They have 5 conferences they protect and cash in on. The rest of the schools in America can eat a bag of…. Richards… For many, this has ruined the likability of college sports. The “any given Sunday” doesn’t apply anymore because the chance is never given anymore. Have to protect the perceived money makers. |
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Post by londonranger on Jul 17, 2023 15:48:13 GMT
Reading all these posts makes me very irritable. That we stayed in the 2nd tier seems like a miracle. Godknows what will happen next season.
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Post by robindubois on Jul 18, 2023 8:05:36 GMT
Reading all these posts makes me very irritable. That we stayed in the 2nd tier seems like a miracle. Godknows what will happen next season. Well that's the beauty (or otherwise) of football. Anything can happen next season. If Ainsworth builds a team that plays together rather than relying on a Chair who only passed to Willock and ignored Dykes last season anything is possible. We have seen teams like Luton progressing without big name signings or spending masses of money but by building a committed team that works together and is consistent. Our issue for the last few seasons has been inconsistency, beating Burnley away but losing to Wigan for example, and the inability to keep good starts to the season going for more than a few months. The comments in this thread really are not pessimistic but just discussing the state of football and the constraints that are put on the "poorer" clubs such as ourselves. The other part that is not mentioned above and I agree would be irritating is that we have shot ourselves in the foot several times in recent years with the constant changes in coaches/managers playing staff and misguided attempts to use the little cash windfall we did receive to push for an unrealistic promotion bid. What I find even more irritable is the constant abuse from 'fans' on social media and their clamour for more and more change when what we require is stability. If we can keep a settled squad, committed as a team, under the same coach for 2 or 3 seasons with just the odd addition that improves the squad we can start to climb the league. Nothing will change dramatically overnight. The thing that will not go away though is lack of money and even if a super rich Saudi billionaire takes over the club it will be of no benefit as they will not be allowed to put money into the football club. However if one does come along and can build a new stadium, not from club funds, but capable of generating profit and attendances there would be a benefit. Onwards and upwards. |
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