Our direction of football since 2015

[evenlode]

I used to post on here a while back and am now so depressed by the state of our club I feel compelled to return and express my opinion and hear other supporters views. I’m 58 so have experienced the highs and the lows and my father was the commercial director for Jim Gregory when Terry Venables was manager who (please forgive him) put down the Omniturf pitch.
Les Ferdinand was appointed director of football in 2015 and below are his current achievements:-
6 managers starting with JF Hasselbaink through to Critchley.
Finishing positions from 2015/16 season respectively as follows-
12th,18th,16th,19th,13th,9th and 11th.

Players signed for meaningful money:-(only my research and open to correction)
Washington-3.3 m 2016
Bonne-2.2 m 2020

Players sold :-
Eze- 17.5 m 2020
Freeman- 5.6 m 2019
Smithies- 4m 2018
Osayi Samuels- 0.5 m

Number of academy players that have progressed through system and signed professional contracts was hard to identify but using first team debuts as the minimum criteria maybe a dozen at best with (again only my research) none going on to bigger things.

Over 8 years this is hardly a glittering cv . Freeman and Smithies appear reasonable business as neither have really gone on to better things and Eze was a formality. Samuels was a mystery if it’s true we were offered 5 m by Club Brügge the season before —would love to know true story.
Our signings remain an embarrassment..Conor Washington must still be the only one laughing.

So exactly what has our DoF achieved,along with our Chief recruitment officer and extensive scouting team ?
My answer is that he’s reduced us to a regressive, unambitious and poorly organised club. The argument of having had to restore our outgoings after our ill conceived Premiere league signings and FFP are long gone. His business plan, assuming he had one , was and still is deeply flawed. You only need to look at clubs like Brentford, Fulham, Bournemouth,Brighton, all of a similar size to us, to see what could have been.
If our chairman had run his business for the last 8 years on a similar plan he’d have gone bust.
So why has he let Ferdinand continue in his role. Developing this new training ground and Academy is all the wrong way about. Our last 8 years decline isn’t going to suddenly reverse because of a shiny new training and academy facility as we won’t signing better players because of it and joining the qpr academy will only be for those that fail to get into any of our more successful rivals.
Our club needs a complete clear out, ideally from the top, as it appears we have a chairman that is being led astray by a totally inadequate and unqualified middle management.

[Lonegunmen]

After giving this some very serious thought for about 10 minutes, the only thing I can say is..."I totally Agree". The only redeeming feature, is that we now have players not earning 50+k per week for substandard performances. Well, at least I hope not.

[robindubois]

Welcome back evenlode

Unfortunately I have a few more years on my clock than you and can remember way further back. I can only say that despite all, we are in a better place now mid Championship, ground facilities etc than the dark cold days of the old Third Division South and I for one am not depressed at the state of the club. Mid Championship - a turn around in results and we will be looking up and we are staying the right side of the EFL regulations that are killing the game. There are many other clubs in the Championship and below plus a few in the PL who in their fans eyes are in equally bad a shape for one reason or another.

While I can agree with much of what you say there is also a list of other factors that have not been mentioned so to put the "blame" at the feet of the DoF is a little unfair in my opinion. The whole FFP debacle, the fact that the DoF and Hoos have done much to keep the club afloat by tight management - all forgotten now. Did they spend all that money - no - Harry and Hughes got what they wanted from the Board and the middle management have been clearing up the mess ever since but being blamed for not taking us forward quickly.

Your suggested solution to clear everyone out and start again would rely on the dream that we would be able to pick up a complete new management team who would put the world to rights - on a zero or negative budget. Dream on.

As an opposite view I would say that one of the reasons we have not progressed above our current position is our record of churning managers, coaches and players every 6 or 12 months in the hope that a miracle worker will come along and lead us to the promised land. In reality that is not going to happen. We cannot buy our way forward so it has to be a slow development over a considerable amount of time.

I hold up one example - Eddie Howe and Bournemouth. Served as a young coach at Bournemouth for 3 years, learning his trade and working with players, then a year at Burnley before returning to Bournemouth for another 8 or 9 years slowly building and achieving more than Bournemouths fans dreamed of. Now he has moved to a new challenge and just look at the results because he has been given th time and backing to do his job.

He was given the time at Bournemouth to develop his methods and team and bring success on a tight budget. We do the opposite. Forgetting the Beale farce who have we given a real chance to such as Howe was given. Was Warburton that bad - could he have built over a few more seasons. Yes there were behind the scenes tensions - why because people had different opinions and different ambitions - quick fire success or we change.

Is Critchley the right long term man - no idea but given the average shelf life of a manager or coach these days he will not get the chance.

Am I depressed? - no. Disappointed? Yes after being clear at the top of the table.

Are we still on a bad run? - question of a glass half full or half empty. Only won one of our last 6 league games - only lost one of our last six league games. Are performances improving again - yes but inconsistent but give the new man a chance and a fit squad. With the bit of luck that you never get during a "bad run" we would be up near or in the play-offs and not in a "bad run".

Examples: 97th minute equaliser by Sheff Utd in a game that should have only played 95 minutes. Last kick of the game taking 2 deflections to cross the line - 2 points gone
.
Reading away - at half time after a poor first half people on here posting we are doomed to relegation, stopped watching the game because we were poor. Second half recovery, unlucky not to win and hardly a word posted about a good fight back and important point that could easily have been 3 - 2 points gone

Just consider those 4 points and we would have the same points on the board as 5th place Norwich. That's football for you with an ever narrowing dividing line between perceived success or failure and an impatient fan base.

[rickyqpr]

I broadly agree with Robin above.
Owners – really messed up back in the day – had they behaved that way with their businesses, they would be broke today. But sadly, football became a vanity project, and they lost all discipline. But without their current benevolence, we would not exist.
FFP- The curse that means the likes of Jim Gregory can never come again.
Managers – The majority have a short term perspective. Message boards like this one 9others are far worse) call for their head after a run of poor form. They therefore want players who they have worked with before, often at the expense of the stated strategy. The board relent and back them ‘just this oncxe’. The real shame is that in Beale, we had the chance to do something ‘different’. But my guess is that he defected when he realized that the board were not going to give him all that he wanted. Fans seem to want the board to back the manager and say ‘to hell with FFP’. Well they did once and look at the consequences.
Director of Football – A big subject. First up, we needed one, because we hired loose canons as managers, and there needed to be a football man in between the owners and the team management. Ferdinand bridged that gap and as Robin says above, some sort of control was established. How much of that is down to Hoos replacing Beard, is an unknown, but Hoos has a proven track record at Burnley. Ferdinand however, did have to learn on the job, and made errors.
The mistake IMHO is having a DofF with a signed off strategy, and then giving in to the next manager through the door who wants something else.
The curious one though was Warburton. Warburton was more like a DofF than a coach, Eustace was the coach. But it seems that even he did not buy into the strategy and fell out with the DifF and the owners.
Other clubs do not seem so fixated with the Director of Football issue. I sometimes wonder if the issue at QPR is because it is Les Ferdinand. How often do you hear about the Everton Director of Football (Thelwell)? All the focus is on Lampard and the owners. We can all name the managers of other clubs, how many Directors of football do we know – or even if clubs have them?
Where I do think Ferdinand has been poor is in the recruitment of strikers. You would think that he could be more effective with that position than any others – but then, does that come back to the scouts / recruitment team, or the latest manager’s whim? I have read that if Dykes goes, we are likely to bring in a forward from Blackpool….hmm, I wonder whose idea that one is?
I agree that it is disappointment within my mindset. My frustration stems from seeing how other local clubs are leaving us behind. But those clubs have newer and bigger arenas. If the owners had really wanted to move, they could have done so. The trouble is that they want an arena that is going to generate the biggest return on their capital. They fixated on Cross rail and HS2 / Old Oak Common. They then used the same sort of tactics that they deployed with FFP. Their spats with Car Giant and Hammersmith and Fulham are there for all to see.
Keep the owners away from footballing issues.
Agree a strategy and stick to it.
If we are going to have a Director of Football, then give him the control.
Don't make promises to managers / coaches that you cannot keep.
Or don't have a Director of Football and instead pass that control to the CEO with the recruitment teem reporting to him.

But welcome back to the message board. I respect your opinion.

[robindubois]

I think we are about on the same page here Ricky.

The point about Ferdinand and our poor record of recruiting strikers is one that I raised a week or so ago, saying that with his experience and record he should know a good striker when he sees one. The only possible mitigating fact that I mentioned is that if he does see the right man (a 20 goal a season striker / ) it is likely that player will be out of our reach both in transfer/signing fee and wages. Obviously that does not excuse the mistakes made on people like Bonne and Washington - if indeed they were mistakes and not a case of the coaches not using them correctly. On the other hand picking up people like Wells on loan can be argued as a good spot - but we also played to his strengths and he could well have been the 20 goal a season man if not recalled from our loan to be sold for a fee we couldn't match.

End of the day it all comes back to money I suppose.

[harr]

You forgot JET

[rickyqpr]

I have some sympathy for Washington. He was never short of effort and was scoring for Peterborough. He is back in the Championship again with Rotherham (although about to be challenged by Hugill signing).
He was an expensive gamble. But we seriously overpaid.
My tolerance with Bonne is very different. Any Charlton fan will tell you that we were crazy paying what we did, for a striker who plays off the shoulder - very poorly.
Maybe, we thought we could coach his poor judgement into a good player. But from the outset, it was clear that he was not bright enough to look along the line and stay on side.
I am surprised that we could not see that before signing him. Bonne likes to say that we paid £2m for him. But it weas a deal rising to £2m - so probably more like £1.2 - £1.4m.
But even at that price, it was way too much.
The second and third signing of Charlie Austin had little to do with the DofF and the scouting team it seems. At least we managed to get a release clause in there when his fitness proved to be a problem.
So whilst I agree that in the end it does come down to money, but I think we are guilty of wasting money on strikers more than any other position - and our DoF was a prolific striker.
I think at our club it is hard to comprehend who is responsible for recruitment selection. We have a DofF, and a big supporting scouting network.
However, Beale let it be known that all the signings, were his signings.
If you look at our recruitment successes:
Willock - recommended by the then coach (Banfield)
Dieng - was with us for a very long time, out on loan winning plaudits.
Laird, Paal, Iroegbunam, Richards, Roberts, Clake-Salter, Balogon, Dixon-Bonner - all Beale signings
Armstrong, Hamalainen, Kakay, Murphy - Youth
Perhaps the following are down to the set up: Dunne, Dickie, Walsh, Chair, Thomas, Field, Dozzell, Johansen, Adomah, Dykes & Amos
Not many considering the overhead we must be carrying.

[robindubois]

Jan 25, 2023 14:41:53 GMT harr said:

You forgot JET

How can anyone forget JET. 

Truth though is that he was a talented player - but without the mentality/attitude to match - we have had a few of those and not just strikers!

We took him on a free in the summer of 2015 when we already had our backs against the wall financially, and after he had scored 21 goals for Bristol City in the 2013/14 season. When he did not work out we put him out on loan in the next window. Worth a long shot gamble on a free and moved him on quickly when it was not working - better than taking 2 or 3 million long shots on players from lower leagues with no prior pedigree or experience imo. 

He is still playing in India I hear - as a midfielder!

[harr]

Jan 25, 2023 14:55:16 GMT rickyqpr said:

I have some sympathy for Washington. He was never short of effort and was scoring for Peterborough. He is back in the Championship again with Rotherham (although about to be challenged by Hugill signing).
He was an expensive gamble. But we seriously overpaid.
My tolerance with Bonne is very different. Any Charlton fan will tell you that we were crazy paying what we did, for a striker who plays off the shoulder - very poorly.
Maybe, we thought we could coach his poor judgement into a good player. But from the outset, it was clear that he was not bright enough to look along the line and stay on side.
I am surprised that we could not see that before signing him. Bonne likes to say that we paid £2m for him. But it weas a deal rising to £2m - so probably more like £1.2 - £1.4m.
But even at that price, it was way too much.
The second and third signing of Charlie Austin had little to do with the DofF and the scouting team it seems. At least we managed to get a release clause in there when his fitness proved to be a problem.
So whilst I agree that in the end it does come down to money, but I think we are guilty of wasting money on strikers more than any other position - and our DoF was a prolific striker.
I think at our club it is hard to comprehend who is responsible for recruitment selection. We have a DofF, and a big supporting scouting network.
However, Beale let it be known that all the signings, were his signings.
If you look at our recruitment successes:
Willock - recommended by the then coach (Banfield)
Dieng - was with us for a very long time, out on loan winning plaudits.
Laird, Paal, Iroegbunam, Richards, Roberts, Clake-Salter, Balogon, Dixon-Bonner - all Beale signings
Armstrong, Hamalainen, Kakay, Murphy - Youth
Perhaps the following are down to the set up: Dunne, Dickie, Walsh, Chair, Thomas, Field, Dozzell, Johansen, Adomah, Dykes & Amos
Not many considering the overhead we must be carrying.

I agree about Washington.
really nice chap, always had time for a chat and a signature and always tried hard.
Unlike JET and Bonne who seemed to have attitude issues.
I think Beales or Beale/Les signings were pretty much good ones.
We do need to let go of these four or five that are never going to be good enough, now is the time.
We gave a crazy contract to one of them , can’t remember if Kakay or Niko?

[evenlode]

Thanks for your thoughts and appreciate the welcome backs. We all understand that running a business is never straightforward but one issue I raised, that of the huge investment in a new training ground and academy, is a strategy that I’m just not understanding at all. With the one exception of Sterling we have an appalling academy to professional history and a brand new state of the art training facility is not going to improve that record or bring about a radical improvement to our current first team performance levels—-that’s entirely down to the quality of player we employ (or in the case of the academy—invite) and of course a manager that can motivate said employees to operate at their maximum levels.
So on the simple premise that success and ambition are key ingredients to attracting a better class employee surely we’d be better off utilising the considerable sums spent on a decent manager and improving our squad first.
Many clubs have had success and then caught up with their facilities after…Burnley being a good example.
But the key to it all is having talented management and a great scouting network which clearly our current DoF and his recruitment team are not.
Ferdinand was a class player but is far too out of his depth in the role we’ve let him fill for 8 years.

[robindubois]

Jan 26, 2023 20:44:38 GMT evenlode said:

Thanks for your thoughts and appreciate the welcome backs. We all understand that running a business is never straightforward but one issue I raised, that of the huge investment in a new training ground and academy, is a strategy that I’m just not understanding at all. With the one exception of Sterling we have an appalling academy to professional history and a brand new state of the art training facility is not going to improve that record or bring about a radical improvement to our current first team performance levels—-that’s entirely down to the quality of player we employ (or in the case of the academy—invite) and of course a manager that can motivate said employees to operate at their maximum levels.
So on the simple premise that success and ambition are key ingredients to attracting a better class employee surely we’d be better off utilising the considerable sums spent on a decent manager and improving our squad first.
Many clubs have had success and then caught up with their facilities after…Burnley being a good example.
But the key to it all is having talented management and a great scouting network which clearly our current DoF and his recruitment team are not.
Ferdinand was a class player but is far too out of his depth in the role we’ve let him fill for 8 years.

Sorry but have to disagree with much of that.
It is a bit of chicken and egg situation with the academy but we have had C**p training and academy facilities that have hindered development, even caused injuries but maybe most importantly have a been a turn-off for prospective young players to join. 
Given the number of clubs around London or even further afield good young talent make the tours with their parents/agents to choose where they want to join and have the best chance of development.
I have heard of many who took a look at what facilities we had to offer and compared to what they were being shown by our neighbours, Arsenal, Spurs etc and we stood no chance.
Eventually in recent seasons we have picked up a few (for free) that did not make it at one of the better equipped clubs.
The very young talent (or their parents) seem to ignore the fact that they are more likely to get through to league status with us compared to an Arsenal but take the opportunity to shoot for the dream or because they can see that we had the worst facilities.
Youth development starts at a very young age these days with the good ones being identified at single figure ages and take at least 8 to 10 years before they reach first team squad level. To blame our now DoF for our lack of youth development that has been apparent for probably 30 years or even as far back as the late 60's is unfair.
We have identified a few at the young age. Sterling as you say went on but was snatched from us by Liverpool while others who looked likely such as Parret and Bowler have moved on - why? - to get to a club with better academy and training facilities and the hope of progressing further.