Moving on

[spanishal]

Despite club and player statements to the contrary it’s very apparent that the “Beale Betrayal” has affected us badly. The Wolves, Rangers sagas co-incided with a dreadful drop in form particularly among our best players, Deing, Willock, Chair and Dickie. Beales post match comments after some awful displays were quite brutal and it was obvious he had lost the dressing room by then.

Although NC does come across as a bit like a rabbit in headlights and somewhat nonchalant in his post match comments we must give him an opportunity to try and stop the rot and judge him by where we end up at seasons end.

[Macmoish]

Thing is other clubs have lost good managers - and have just marched on. Luton Town just one of them

But agree re not judging Critchley so soon. (G-d help us though if QPR have screwed up in their appointment)

[harr]

I think last year after MW capitulated we ended up 11th with 66 points
66 points seems like an eternity away, seeing as we have picked up 5 points from 27, the team looks a bit flat and if NC is going to keep insisting on starting players like Shodipo, I worry that we won’t get near to 66 points.
So then do we say it was bad luck that Beale left after 20 games or was it wrong to even consider him.
Probably a season now where we just want to get 6 wins asap and forget about it, although 6 wins the way this bunch is performing is going to take some doing.
Regarding Beales post match reports, I thought in the main they were pretty accurate apart from the last couple.

Trying to think the last time we scored 2 goals in 9 games, can’t even think we did that last year with Warburton but might have ….
It is amazing since the Birmingham match our team as basically given up halfway throughout a season yet again.
The whole club from the board to the directors of football to coaches and players should be appalled to what’s happened in the last nine matches seeing as it happened last year.

[rickyqpr]

January is a terrible time to be signing players, but the first job is to work out who is just out of form, or who just wants to leave.
So I think we properly move on when the team becomes Critchley's team and tactics - rather than Beale's or Warburton's.
I think we overachieved with Beale - but now we are underachieving. Sometimes these things happen and sometimes a good result changes things completely.
But to me, this poor run looks far deeper than the many others we have had.
As fans, we all feel cheated by the Beale debacle, that we had something good stolen from us - some of the players are probably feeling the same - maybe even feeling sorry for themselves.
If we keep saying 'but we were top of the league' - so must they. Our team look pretty flat and unhappy.
I think that in Critchley we have a proven good coach trying to manage a very difficult inheritance. he is having to quickly assess what is wrong - compare and contrast his challenge to the situation Edwards inherited.
We have to give him time - I am not too concerned about his pre and post-match comments - they are generally meaningless - and what good did the articulate Beale do us?
I hope that we have a January plan and that we are not all biting our nails at the end of the month about the lack of signings / talent departures.
I am not one for big player turnover especially in January - but there does need to be a sort out of who is going to put themselves on the line and who is the next Bosingwa - dialing it in.
I hope that good fortune shines on us though.

[harr]

Jan 1, 2023 10:58:00 GMT rickyqpr said:

January is a terrible time to be signing players, but the first job is to work out who is just out of form, or who just wants to leave.
So I think we properly move on when the team becomes Critchley's team and tactics - rather than Beale's or Warburton's.
I think we overachieved with Beale - but now we are underachieving. Sometimes these things happen and sometimes a good result changes things completely.
But to me, this poor run looks far deeper than the many others we have had.
As fans, we all feel cheated by the Beale debacle, that we had something good stolen from us - some of the players are probably feeling the same - maybe even feeling sorry for themselves.
If we keep saying 'but we were top of the league' - so must they. Our team look pretty flat and unhappy.
I think that in Critchley we have a proven good coach trying to manage a very difficult inheritance. he is having to quickly assess what is wrong - compare and contrast his challenge to the situation Edwards inherited.
We have to give him time - I am not too concerned about his pre and post-match comments - they are generally meaningless - and what good did the articulate Beale do us?
I hope that we have a January plan and that we are not all biting our nails at the end of the month about the lack of signings / talent departures.
I am not one for big player turnover especially in January - but there does need to be a sort out of who is going to put themselves on the line and who is the next Bosingwa - dialing it in.
I hope that good fortune shines on us though.

I can agree with most of this Ricky apart from the (I think that in Critchley we have a proven good coach trying to manage a very difficult inheritance)

Surely this is the case most of the time for a football Manager though and not only that, they can’t be that bad a team as for a 18 months they have been in and out of the top 6 most of that time, peaking top of the table just 9 matches ago.
Its not like he is taking over a team in 20th place.
He is paid to get them motivated and turn around the current situation so I am expecting better than what we have produced against a poor Cardiff team and shocking home performance to Luton.
But sure he will need time, so another season possibly written off as failure then?

[rickyqpr]

Jan 1, 2023 11:51:44 GMT harr said:

Jan 1, 2023 10:58:00 GMT rickyqpr said:

January is a terrible time to be signing players, but the first job is to work out who is just out of form, or who just wants to leave.
So I think we properly move on when the team becomes Critchley's team and tactics - rather than Beale's or Warburton's.
I think we overachieved with Beale - but now we are underachieving. Sometimes these things happen and sometimes a good result changes things completely.
But to me, this poor run looks far deeper than the many others we have had.
As fans, we all feel cheated by the Beale debacle, that we had something good stolen from us - some of the players are probably feeling the same - maybe even feeling sorry for themselves.
If we keep saying 'but we were top of the league' - so must they. Our team look pretty flat and unhappy.
I think that in Critchley we have a proven good coach trying to manage a very difficult inheritance. he is having to quickly assess what is wrong - compare and contrast his challenge to the situation Edwards inherited.
We have to give him time - I am not too concerned about his pre and post-match comments - they are generally meaningless - and what good did the articulate Beale do us?
I hope that we have a January plan and that we are not all biting our nails at the end of the month about the lack of signings / talent departures.
I am not one for big player turnover especially in January - but there does need to be a sort out of who is going to put themselves on the line and who is the next Bosingwa - dialing it in.
I hope that good fortune shines on us though.

I can agree with most of this Ricky apart from the (I think that in Critchley we have a proven good coach trying to manage a very difficult inheritance)

Surely this is the case most of the time for a football Manager though and not only that, they can’t be that bad a team as for a 18 months they have been in and out of the top 6 most of that time, peaking top of the table just 9 matches ago.
Its not like he is taking over a team in 20th place.
He is paid to get them motivated and turn around the current situation so I am expecting better than what we have produced against a poor Cardiff team and shocking home performance to Luton.
But sure he will need time, so another season possibly written off as failure then?

Ok – it is all about opinions, you may not agree with me, and I respect that, but this is why I believe that the job is difficult:

• Our owners are pumping in £1.5m per month to keep a mid-table team afloat. They are successful businessmen, who cannot find a way through FFP to make a financial return through promotion. If they walk away, our club is dead. Any new coach / manager has to persuade the owners / management that they believe that they can be successful with this flawed model.

• After the success of Eze, the club is therefore wedded to ’ buy young and low – sell high’ - just to keep an even keel. Eze was a QPR one-off (great goal against Bournemouth BTW) and that market collapsed after Covid – good Championship players are now only considered by parachute clubs – and for a much reduced sum. Meanwhile the supporters have a very high expectation that QPR should be in the Prem and demand success.

• Beale enticed a group of players to join QPR. They were his choice. Just listen to his Wolves honesty and integrity speech post Wolves, to see the commitments he made to players who could have earned more money elsewhere. Those players must feel let down. Several may well want out. Some may even be waiting for a ‘network’ call from Beale to re-join him in sunny Scotland. He built a great spirit, and then destroyed it. The consequences IMHO run deep.

• Critchley is expected to develop the youth. Successive coaches have failed to do this. Warburton believed the youth was inadequate and it led to his demise. Beale talked a good game, mentioned a few names who were never heard of again. Armstrong featured flittingly, but that was it.

• We have a few young players who perhaps could be developed, but can you play them in a struggling side – sometimes youth only comes through following relegation (God forbid). But should we loan these players out, or keep them in the development squad? Has Armstrong benefitted from not going on loan? Is Kellman now a better player for us after Orient? Alfie Llloyd is doing great things at Eastleigh, but that is three divisions lower. Is Masterson going to make it? What happened to Dixon- Bonner – another ex-Beale great hope? Meanwhile we have several fringe players, bench warming who may want to move on, but not take a wage cut. The gap between first team football and the development squad is huge at QPR – other teams appear to do better, so a big challenge with a poor history awaits.

• We have a number of better players who are now in the last 18 months of their contracts who need to be extended or sold – preferable before they enter their last 12 months. If some of this occurs in January, replacements will be required in a notoriously difficult market (compared to the Summer).

• All managers face challenges – some of the above are unique to QPR. Critchley was a success at Blackpool, joining them with a good reputation working with the Liverpool youth – so to me he is proven. Motivation is not about clapping hands and hugging people, it is about ‘building’ belief. But if the person you are building is thinking ‘I just want out’ or ‘I need an update from my agent and no way am I extending’ as we slide away from any promotion hope, then all the mentoring in the world will be wasted.

That is my reading – a bloody tough gig right now. I hope we give him time, because the next one will face the same issues. From table topping to relegation strugglers, he may face a major rebuild – in large part thanks to the damage that Beale inflicted.

[rickyqpr]

So what can the club do about it?
I have read the usual ‘morning after’ attacks on the owners, the Director of Football and as ever, Chris Ramsay (on other boards). This always happens after a bad display or result. I get that people want someone to blame, a scapegoat or whatever, but as I have posted so many times before, with FFP, no new owner is going to invest in the squad. If the current owners walk away, we are stuffed.
Ferdinand has made mistakes, some big ones - see Hamalainen contract – but that happens at all clubs – See Todd Kane at Coventry. Les is not exempt from blame, but when we were top of the league, no-one thanked Ferdinand for the recent acquisitions.
But perhaps it is time to step back and say ‘How can we best support the new manager’?’ It may be time to start again. He has given the squad a chance (although not the youth, as yet).
Perhaps we have to sell for whatever price we can muster – may be a few who want out, have to depart. Then we may need to muddle through until the Summer and sign the sort of players that Blackpool, Luton and Coventry tend to find. This may involve promoting the youth until next season. Players like DeSilva, Drewe, Armstrong, Gubbins, Dixon-Bonner etc. given a chance.
It may mean a relegation battle, and it is not without risk, but at the moment, we are reliant on loanees and players who are dreaming of their next move, and also having to utilize squad players who are not going to make it.
I am not saying this is the answer, but it is an option that may be forthcoming.

[harr]

We can’t promote the youth as apart from Sinclair the others are miles away from Championship game level.
Would be a recipe for League One imo if we did that.
We need better quality in at least 3 maybe 4 positions and we all know what they are.
As well as that we need to offload Dykes get a better scorer, one that gets 10-15 a season not 6 - 8.
Then get a younger back up striker or a loan too.
We are probably 5-6 players to getting options covered.
Then it’s down to the players to be motivated and focused like they were under Beale, this won’t be no easy feat at the minute I realise but surely not impossible.
We have 1.5 Million to spend which would not be close to what we need, so maybe time to cash in on either Chair or Willock.
Probably best we get Willock to sign a new deal or lose for nothing.

[stylecouncillor]

Jan 8, 2023 13:36:59 GMT harr said:

We can’t promote the youth as apart from Sinclair the others are miles away from Championship game level.
Would be a recipe for League One imo if we did that.
We need better quality in at least 3 maybe 4 positions and we all know what they are.
As well as that we need to offload Dykes get a better scorer, one that gets 10-15 a season not 6 - 8.
Then get a younger back up striker or a loan too.
We are probably 5-6 players to getting options covered.
Then it’s down to the players to be motivated and focused like they were under Beale, this won’t be no easy feat at the minute I realise but surely not impossible.
We have 1.5 Million to spend which would not be close to what we need, so maybe time to cash in on either Chair or Willock.
Probably best we get Willock to sign a new deal or lose for nothing.

Have to agree . You only got to look at the results of the under 23 to know that if they can't beat there only age group not to much hope in the championship. The under 18's fare a bit better but how young do you need to go ? Warbs kind of pointed it out... Maybe not in the right way , but you can't keep employing managers then forcing them to use what youth is available. If that academy isn't good enough We are just going to except that. Anyone applying for a job is going to tell you what you want to hear, at time of interview. Reality is your not going to use the academy if all it's going to do is lose you your job. I think the management need to except that.

[rickyqpr]

It will be interesting to see what we do this window - financially.
If we cannot sell, I wonder what is left in the coffers.
Maybe we did get a windfall for Beale, and maybe the World Cup money was not previously factored in and we have some money, but we do not have the funds to revamp the squad without a willing buyer.
But the point I was making is that we had a strategy that was dependent on a selling market that has evaporated. Several teams of our standing are finding themselves in the same boat.
All are looking for lower league bargains and to their youth - but for every success there are many failures.
So, the process of blooding the youth may need to be advanced - as a strategy and I agree it is highly risky.
But as it is, we have underperforming players who may well be running their contracts down. FFP restricts what we can do (as with other teams) and so increasingly it seems to be about loans and youth.
If the quality is not there, then the weaker set ups will be relegated - and that could happen to us.
But if you cannot go out and buy what you want, it in time will come back to what you are developing yourself. The only question is when.

[harr]

Of course we could of generated some further cash with a good Cup run….
Both Cups lost to League One opposition.

I really don’t think we can have these youngsters near the team at the minute, not before we have another 6 wins.
If we get 52 points, then give a few a try but now is the not the time.
4-5 performances like Luton and Fleetwood and we can be sucked down with the bottom four very quickly.

So for me we need to strengthen these areas, offload Niko, Shodipo, Thomas, Dykes ( undecided on Kakay )
Use the Beale money, plus World Cup money and if we have sell one of our assets then we will have to at the right price.

I still feel the core of the team is ok, they have just totally lost there way since the Beale departure.
They can’t be that bad, we averaged over 90 points in 2021 and got to top of the table this season.
I still think Critchley will be ok but he needs to get additions and the players need to start pulling there weight.

The youth set up seems to be pretty average at the minute we are losing lots of games at that level, we do have 3-4 decent prospects coming through long term if they develop as we hope they will But they probably need some loan time.

[rickyqpr]

Clive’s Fleetwood report is depressing, but well worth a read. Those poor people who gave up their time and money for Saturday.( loftforwords.fansnetwork.co.uk/ )
He majors on the point that this is not a poor set of players, they can perform well (were top of the table) but frequently choose not to. We all read Critchley’s comments about his Blackpool view of this group.
I agree that we lack a leader on the pitch, Steph rarely available. But it seems we have a group who are impacted by events off the pitch. Last season it was Warburton’s protracted exit and fall out with the upper management.
I think this time so much comes down to Beale. He was a one-off. He talked and talked. He was inside their heads, individually and then collectively. He produced huge dossiers of the next opponent. He went through just what everyone’s role was. He attended the youth matches, the under 23s, the B Team games. He was omnipresent, larger than life. He was a life coach like some had never seen before. Players chose to join us, because of him. He instilled belief, he got them to overachieve. The something changed. It seems he decided he wanted an exit and started talking to other clubs – and to his network.
The players must have sensed a change. Many point to the decline after the Wolves job came up. But perhaps his intensity had started to wain before that. But then post Wolves, we had the honesty and integrity speech. Perhaps they started to believe again, only to quickly realise that he was not staying, just biding time. A double psychological hit for them. Dykes ‘snake’ post may be a clue to their mindsets.
Whoever followed Beale was not going to talk as much as him, be as detailed as him, contact the players individually as much as Beale did. Critchley and Gerrard discovered that at Villa. Beale ran all the communication channels with the players – good players who drifted after he left, costing Gerrard his job (and Critchley). Beale left a huge void that took time and a top manager to fill.
Critchley said that he could tell what was going to happen at Fleetwood by the Thursday training session. I presume that means that the squad were either not listening or just not preparing properly. The cup preparation is slightly different because of the squad rotation and perhaps those who knew they would not start were less than focussed. But it is an indictment of our current group.
I would guess that he knows who he thinks he can work with and who, no matter ability, may need to move on. But the job of following Beale and the damage he has left behind is a big one and why we could well beat Reading on Saturday or get a hiding. Until he gets ownership of the team, maybe his own players, I think it is going to be hit and miss for the rest of the season – although hopefully not as bad as Saturday’s performance. Going to be a big month.

[harr]

Well put Ricky, that’s pretty much how I see it.
Critchley needs more time , I just hope Reading away is not at the same level of performance as Luton and Fleetwood though as people will start panicking.
We looked quite good against Sheff Utd.

[nomar]

Jan 9, 2023 10:00:32 GMT rickyqpr said:

Clive’s Fleetwood report is depressing, but well worth a read. Those poor people who gave up their time and money for Saturday.( loftforwords.fansnetwork.co.uk/ )
He majors on the point that this is not a poor set of players, they can perform well (were top of the table) but frequently choose not to. We all read Critchley’s comments about his Blackpool view of this group.
I agree that we lack a leader on the pitch, Steph rarely available. But it seems we have a group who are impacted by events off the pitch. Last season it was Warburton’s protracted exit and fall out with the upper management.
I think this time so much comes down to Beale. He was a one-off. He talked and talked. He was inside their heads, individually and then collectively. He produced huge dossiers of the next opponent. He went through just what everyone’s role was. He attended the youth matches, the under 23s, the B Team games. He was omnipresent, larger than life. He was a life coach like some had never seen before. Players chose to join us, because of him. He instilled belief, he got them to overachieve. The something changed. It seems he decided he wanted an exit and started talking to other clubs – and to his network.
The players must have sensed a change. Many point to the decline after the Wolves job came up. But perhaps his intensity had started to wain before that. But then post Wolves, we had the honesty and integrity speech. Perhaps they started to believe again, only to quickly realise that he was not staying, just biding time. A double psychological hit for them. Dykes ‘snake’ post may be a clue to their mindsets.
Whoever followed Beale was not going to talk as much as him, be as detailed as him, contact the players individually as much as Beale did. Critchley and Gerrard discovered that at Villa. Beale ran all the communication channels with the players – good players who drifted after he left, costing Gerrard his job (and Critchley). Beale left a huge void that took time and a top manager to fill.
Critchley said that he could tell what was going to happen at Fleetwood by the Thursday training session. I presume that means that the squad were either not listening or just not preparing properly. The cup preparation is slightly different because of the squad rotation and perhaps those who knew they would not start were less than focussed. But it is an indictment of our current group.
I would guess that he knows who he thinks he can work with and who, no matter ability, may need to move on. But the job of following Beale and the damage he has left behind is a big one and why we could well beat Reading on Saturday or get a hiding. Until he gets ownership of the team, maybe his own players, I think it is going to be hit and miss for the rest of the season – although hopefully not as bad as Saturday’s performance. Going to be a big month.

I read it and it was pretty much every single thing I thought and felt after that game.

It wasn't just the subject level of performance in that game. It was the attitude of a team that genuinely looked like they couldn't even be arsed to mail it in.

After that game I lost respect for every single one of our players. Every single one.

Like Clive, I don't trust any of them any more and on Saturday night you could have sold every last man Jack of them and I would have happily taken whatever paltry price some stupid mugs out there would have been prepared to shell out to take them off our hands.