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Post by harr on Nov 15, 2016 18:34:20 GMT
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Post by bowranger on Nov 16, 2016 10:48:44 GMT
I will let others debate whether Ollie is the right choice - bottom line is no-one really knows and will not know until we see what happens on the pitch.
The bit I do not get are calls (not just on here) for him to have been given a shorter contract.
Practically everyone is screaming for stability but then in the last week I have seen calls for a temporary appointment until the summer to give us time to find the "right" man ( as if that helps!) and now more saying this contract is too long.
If we are starting off with a new manager (whoever it is) with the thought in mind that he might not survive the rest of this season plus the next two we should not be appointing him at all. If we are looking to keep someone for 6 months and then start the whole mess of recruiting a new manager and team in the summer there is no long term planning and what message does that give to he players?.
The new manager's objective must be to take over from where we are and develop the current squad plus some new additions into a squad capable of challenging the top six and building the squad for a chance of survival if we can get promoted. 2 1/2 seasons to accomplish that is still an aggressive timeframe and there should be no way that the manager should be on a shorter term contract - unless we are going down the "give him 10 games and see if his stats are better than Warnock" route for the xtenth time.
And to be honest, the length of contract these days very rarely ever matters anyway. My only caveat with that is that contract length doesn't necessarily have to equate to stability or instability - it's about process and planning. On paper I am all about long term contracts and giving a manager ample time, but we're dealing with a board room and a fanbase who don't tend to allow that. The stability element is the agenda set by Les and Hoos, so I feel like if we accept that managers will not tend to be here for that long, we should have checks and balances in place so that the wider goals of the club are disrupted as little as possible. So for example, I'm one of the people who thinks Holloway should've been given a contract until the end of the season with a performance-based option to renew. That's not because I want more changes (you've seen me harp on about not sacking JFH etc.). This is largely because I love Ollie but I'm weary about how this may all turn out - so I think re-assessing at the end of each season is really sensible. You bring him in to make us more 'entertaining' and to challenge in the upper half of the division, then you see how that's gone and then you decide whether you're going to give him a summer transfer window or not. That's when we're most likely to spend money and additions will have repercussions for years to come, so you've got to be sure about the manager. That lack of ambiguity and shorter term target setting all forms part of the the club having a defined plan, of which the manager is a component and you assess their role at the least disruptive time possible (May). This November we had Ollie available and he would run through brick walls for a chance to come back. What if the worst happens and he's binned off next November - where do we go then? Who's available and wants to come in, with the right pedigree, who will please the fans and is happy to work with someone else's squad? That's why I feel that we should give it until May and if it doesn't seem to be working out, you make a longer term appointment when you've got the widest range of options possible mixed with the most attractive time for an available manager to come into the club. And if we're happy, then you give the manager a full season, except if we're maybe in a relegation scrap. To be totally clear, my dream scenario is that Holloway is a big success and we keep him on for a long time - I desperately want him to do well. But I'm just being cautious as I don't think he was the board's first choice for a long term appointment and if we do end up pursuing someone else, I'd rather we did that with a smooth transition that keeps the club's targets on track rather than doing it mid-season. Long term contracts and commitments are for clubs who stick by that and we don't, so I'm just trying to be practical. All the same, as nomar says, the contract lengths are a bit of a red herring really. Like reported transfer fees and the like, the intricacies of what they really mean in terms of pay-offs and all that is pretty ambiguous (in terms of what we, as fans, can know anyway). So not quite sure why I've banged on about it. Edit: That feel when you accidentally reply to a post from four days ago  |
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Post by Macmoish on Nov 16, 2016 10:52:39 GMT
I'm not wild about the appointment. But if you give almost ANY competent manager time, I think will do a fair job.
I think that would have been true if we'd stuck with JFH. The gamble was appointing him. If we'd stuck with him.
Owners need to stick with the manager. Forget the fluctuating Fan view )And yes if we do slump with Holloway, will be Fan murmurs and more "Out"
STICK WITH HIM
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Post by harr on Nov 16, 2016 12:38:20 GMT
I'm not wild about the appointment. But if you give almost ANY competent manager time, I think will do a fair job. I think that would have been true if we'd stuck with JFH. The gamble was appointing him. If we'd stuck with him. Owners need to stick with the manager. Forget the fluctuating Fan view )And yes if we do slump with Holloway, will be Fan murmurs and more "Out" STICK WITH HIM I guess with recent results the owners were very concerned we might be heading for the bottom three. They obviously didnt want to change but also didnt want to be owners of a League One Club either. I think our home form 2 wins from 8 would be a big concern for any of the 24 Owners of Championship Teams. Maybe if there was a few signs that we were slowly turning the corner they would have given JFH a little longer but the fact is, we were no better at all 12 months on, if anything slightly worse. Thats why they acted. We also know it wasnt the fact there was someone else available at this specific time who had just been booted out of a job as IH has been available for ages. It was just down to heading in the wrong direction and they had seen enough. You have to remember Parachute payments are running out in the next year or so, that few million we get will make things even harder in 2-3 years when we dont have that help. I think it had to be done and dont blame them sadly. |
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Post by nomar on Nov 16, 2016 14:17:57 GMT
I'm not wild about the appointment. But if you give almost ANY competent manager time, I think will do a fair job. I think that would have been true if we'd stuck with JFH. The gamble was appointing him. If we'd stuck with him. Owners need to stick with the manager. Forget the fluctuating Fan view )And yes if we do slump with Holloway, will be Fan murmurs and more "Out" STICK WITH HIM I guess with recent results the owners were very concerned we might be heading for the bottom three. They obviously didnt want to change but also didnt want to be owners of a League One Club either. I think our home form 2 wins from 8 would be a big concern for any of the 24 Owners of Championship Teams. Maybe if there was a few signs that we were slowly turning the corner they would have given JFH a little longer but the fact is, we were no better at all 12 months on, if anything slightly worse. Thats why they acted. We also know it wasnt the fact there was someone else available at this specific time who had just been booted out of a job as IH has been available for ages. It was just down to heading in the wrong direction and they had seen enough. You have to remember Parachute payments are running out in the next year or so, that few million we get will make things even harder in 2-3 years when we dont have that help. I think it had to be done and dont blame them sadly. There was a big disconnect between club and fans which was only going to get wider the longer JFH was in charge. Not his fault and results were pretty much what you'd expect, but the club has to be able to connect with the fans and get them on board with the project. For that you need a certain type of manager and JFH was not it. Holloway and Warnock are, imo, the only 2 managers realistically available to QPR right now who have the personality and in depth club knowledge to carry that off. I love Kenny Jackett and felt we should have got him in years ago, but that was then and for where we are now, standing on the edge, I don't think he has the personality to bridge that gap. As I've said before, this appointment is more about the type of manager this club needs right now rather than the type of manager we might want. For once, I think they got that aspect correct. |
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Post by harr on Nov 16, 2016 14:57:03 GMT
Interesting interview from Holloway and Bircham, lasted 50 minutes, lots of passion. Good decision by the club for me, hope he can be a success again. However please tell Birch to remove the gum next time, there's a certain level of decorum we like at QPR  |
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Post by bowranger on Nov 17, 2016 9:50:03 GMT
I guess with recent results the owners were very concerned we might be heading for the bottom three. They obviously didnt want to change but also didnt want to be owners of a League One Club either. I think our home form 2 wins from 8 would be a big concern for any of the 24 Owners of Championship Teams. Maybe if there was a few signs that we were slowly turning the corner they would have given JFH a little longer but the fact is, we were no better at all 12 months on, if anything slightly worse. Thats why they acted. We also know it wasnt the fact there was someone else available at this specific time who had just been booted out of a job as IH has been available for ages. It was just down to heading in the wrong direction and they had seen enough. You have to remember Parachute payments are running out in the next year or so, that few million we get will make things even harder in 2-3 years when we dont have that help. I think it had to be done and dont blame them sadly. There was a big disconnect between club and fans which was only going to get wider the longer JFH was in charge. Not his fault and results were pretty much what you'd expect, but the club has to be able to connect with the fans and get them on board with the project. For that you need a certain type of manager and JFH was not it. Holloway and Warnock are, imo, the only 2 managers realistically available to QPR right now who have the personality and in depth club knowledge to carry that off. I love Kenny Jackett and felt we should have got him in years ago, but that was then and for where we are now, standing on the edge, I don't think he has the personality to bridge that gap. As I've said before, this appointment is more about the type of manager this club needs right now rather than the type of manager we might want. For once, I think they got that aspect correct. I'd disagree with the bit about Warnock being realistically available really, but I think the rest is bang on. It's a shame really but I guess that's the kind of personality you need to maintain faith in a project of this sort. I think most, tacitly at least, acknowledge that there's going to be inconsistency but there needs to be faith that we're going to come out of the other side of that, which in turn requires an inspirational figurehead to keep the fans on-side and keep attendances up (which are more important than ever). As Roller said a little while back, a negative situation may have oddly given us the manager we need for where the club is at right now. Fingers crossed. Maybe it's rose tinted glasses and the club's PR but, even talking as someone who felt JFH should've been given longer, I am more excited to go to LR this weekend than I have been in weeks and weeks. Even though we aren't likely to win or whatever, I'm buzzing. That probably counts for something. |
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Post by nomar on Nov 17, 2016 14:31:23 GMT
To clarify, Warnock being available was meant in the sense that this is the type of calibre/level of manager that we can realistically attract.
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Post by Macmoish on Nov 12, 2021 8:07:45 GMT
Five years
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Post by Macmoish on Nov 11, 2023 9:10:02 GMT
Flashback 7 years today: Ian Holloway back as QPR Manager
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