|
|
Post by Macmoish on Jan 21, 2014 11:55:07 GMT
WBA Official Site PUBLISHED 11:28 21st January 2014 Official WBA statement WEST Bromwich Albion has noted The FA’s charge against Nicolas Anelka regarding the gesture he made after scoring his first goal against West Ham United on December 28. Anelka has received a 34-page document explaining the allegations against him and informing him that he has until 6pm on Thursday to respond. The player is now considering his options. Under FA rules, Anelka remains available for first-team selection until The FA’s disciplinary process has reached its conclusion. Following this, the Club will conclude its own internal enquiry. Read more at www.wba.co.uk/news/article/nicolas-anelka-update-1307548.aspx#iq46r8JAAKdB0tMF.99www.wba.co.uk/news/article/nicolas-anelka-update-1307548.aspx |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2014 12:28:56 GMT
how can it be made into a 34-page document, but I am glad he has been charged
|
|
|
|
Post by sharky on Jan 21, 2014 12:29:56 GMT
Without knowing much about the gesture itself, it seems to me a lot of this is about what's in the minds of those making the gesture and those seeing it and their interpretation of it.
In other words, Anelka may have meant it as an anti-establishment gesture in support of a friend or as an anti-semitic gesture. Only he will know although I'm almost 100% sure he will claim that it was the former.
Those seeing it will either judge it to be anti-establishment or anti-semitic.
In that regard, it's how the FA interprets it that will matter, no one else.
|
|
|
|
Post by Macmoish on Jan 21, 2014 18:13:56 GMT
Guardian
There's more at stake for West Brom in Nicolas Anelka case than points
The Midlands club's reaction to the quenelle gesture betrays their past as equality pioneers and it underlines that football still signs up for all the initiatives but just does not always mean it
Tuesday 21 January 2014 12.02 EST 61 comments
Laurie Cunningham was one of the Three Degrees at West Brom in the 1970s, together with Cyrille Regis and Brendon Batson. Photograph: Bob Thomas/Getty Images
Daniel Taylor
The statue will go up in the centre of West Bromwich on 15 July, the 25th anniversary of Laurie Cunningham's death. It is the work of the Barnsley sculptor Graham Ibbeson, is called The Celebration, and will also show Cyrille Regis and Brendon Batson back in the days when they were known as the Three Degrees and had to base their professional lives around a soundtrack of racial abuse.
"The grounds that really stuck out were Leeds, West Ham, Birmingham, Everton, Tottenham and Chelsea," Regis writes in his 2010 autobiography. "At Spurs they used to sing: 'Who's that up a tree – big Cyrille, big Cyrille.' Three black players in one team was just too much for some supporters." Back at the Hawthorns, the office staff used to dread opening the post. "Laurie copped it worse because he went out with a white lady," Regis remembers. One of the letters had a bullet inside and a warning about what would happen if Cunningham became the first black footballer to play for England.
West Brom's supporters hardly need the history lesson. Their club has been a bastion for equality in sport and life. Or, at least, it has until that moment, 40 minutes into their game at West Ham United last month, when Nicolas Anelka prodded the ball into the net and celebrated with la quenelle – in a game shown live on French television.
The disciplinary charge from the Football Association is both necessary and overdue and it can only be hoped Anelka receives a fittingly long ban for his "special dedication" in support of his friend, the so-called humorist Dieudonné M'bala M'bala. If they are friends, Anelka cannot be unaware of Dieudonné's history, his convictions for antisemitism, his reference to the Holocaust as "memorial pornography", the reasons why he is banned from public appearances in France and the background to a salute that gives his followers just about enough greyness and deniability to squirm their way out of normal legal responses.
Anelka's argument is that it was an innocent gesture but he insults our intelligence by making out he is good enough friends with Dieudonné to dedicate a goal to him, but not good enough to know about the man. Perhaps the FA could bring along some of those charming photos that can be found on the internet of Dieudonné's acolytes performing outside Auschwitz and other places of great sensitivity. Then, perhaps, they could use their powers so we do not have to see Anelka on a football pitch for a long time indeed.
Alan Cleverley, secretary of the West Bromwich Albion Official Supporters Club, summed it up pretty accurately. "It sounds as if he did it on purpose because he knew the match was being shown live in France. If the book gets thrown at him, I've got no sympathy whatsoever."
It is an important moment for West Brom and it is knowing their background and everything they have stood for, and against, that makes it feel slightly perplexing, troubling even, that they have not been more proactive. They have been put in a horrible, invidious position but so far they have handled this issue with little clarity or eloquence. They could also have made a stand and they chose not to.
The problem in football is there is a culture among the professional clubs of self-preservation, of condemning these kind of incidents unless it actually involves one of their own. If someone of another profession had, say, put an antisemitic message on Twitter, he or she would have been suspended immediately. Yet football operates by its own rules, often in denial, signing up for all the initiatives, just not always meaning it.
A time will surely come when a Premier League club breaks free and acknowledges there is a bigger picture – and more to play for than just league points. But Liverpool did not manage it when Luis Suárez racially abused Patrice Evra and the decision-makers at Anfield tried every last desperate measure to portray him as the victim. Chelsea's admission that John Terry had acted abominably towards Anton Ferdinand came far too late and now we have these bland statements from West Brom and the impression, certainly to begin with, that they did not understand the seriousness of the matter, and their first concern was whether Anelka could still be selected.
Keith Downing, their caretaker manager at the time, should probably be given the benefit of the doubt for his poor response on the day, reacting with indignation to the suggestion that Anelka had done anything wrong and describing it as "absolute rubbish". It is true, after all, that outside of a few fanatics the British audience would not have understood the significance of the quenelle at that point. Downing, nonetheless, would have been much better off saying the club was aware of the allegation, would look into it properly and then comment further.
It is what has happened since then that makes you wonder whether West Brom have blurred their priorities and put more in the fact that Anelka might be able to pinch them a goal or two rather than point 7.1 of their own club charter, which stipulates: "Everyone will be regarded equally irrespective of their race, colour, nationality, religion, sexual orientation, disability, marital or family status, age or ethnic origin." How does the quenelle, for everyone to see, fit into that?
West Brom's first statement on the subject almost mentioned in passing that Anelka's salute had "caused offence in some quarters", which was a strange way of putting it. There has not been a hint of an apology and there is no legitimate reason, whatever the relevant people say, why they have to wait until after the FA inquiry before holding their own investigation and taking action themselves.
Anelka did what is alleged. Everyone saw it and he will have to live with the consequences, not that he has particularly done a great deal to argue his innocence anyway. After that, it is over to West Brom and the question is: do they really want this person representing their club?
|
|
|
|
Post by cpr on Jan 21, 2014 22:11:01 GMT
Used to drink with Regis and Cunningham in the three magpies most friday evenings.
As I've said before, I knew nothing of this gesture until the explosion of Anelka's action.
Had nobody said anything, no one would be any the wiser and it would have remained a minor French thing.
Now it's been made global and every moron will be doing it for no other reason than they now konw it offends someone.
|
|
|
|
Post by sharky on Jan 22, 2014 12:29:00 GMT
The predicted Anelka defense from the BBC www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25837998Nicolas Anelka: West Brom striker defends "quenelle" gesture Nicolas Anelka has sought to clarify his use of the "quenelle" by posting a video featuring a prominent Jewish leader claiming the gesture is not anti-Semitic on a football pitch. What is a quenelle gesture? It is a hand gesture devised by French comedian Dieudonne M'bala M'bala, who says it's an anti-establishment symbol However, many view it as an anti-Semitic gesture, reminiscent of the Nazi salute People have been photographed making the sign at synagogues and Holocaust sites Read the full details on BBC Magazine Monitor The West Brom player faces a minimum five-match ban if found guilty by the Football Association of making an "abusive" sign at West Ham in December. The striker posted the video on Twitter with the message: "Nothing to add." The "quenelle" has been described as an inverted Nazi salute. Anelka has until 18:00 GMT on Thursday to respond to the 34-page FA document detailing the allegations and is "considering his options" according to West Brom. The man in the video is Roger Cukierman, head of Jewish organisation CRIF (Representative Council of French Jewish Institutions) and vice-president of the World Jewish Congress. Speaking to French daily newspaper Le Figaro, he argues the "quenelle" is only anti-Semitic when it is performed at a Jewish site and feels a possible five-game ban for Anelka seems "a bit harsh". David Baddiel speaks to the BBC's Newsnight about the Anelka gesture "That gesture can only have an anti-Semitic connotation when performed at a synagogue or a memorial to Holocaust victims," said Cukierman. "In a place that has no significance for Jews, it is merely an anti-establishment gesture which I feel does not warrant any harsh sanction." Anelka said he is "neither racist nor anti-Semitic" after using it to celebrate scoring a goal in the 3-3 Premier League draw with West Ham on 28 December. The former France international claimed he used the "quenelle" as "a special dedication" to support controversial comedian Dieudonne M'bala M'bala a day after the French government announced it was trying to ban the comedian's shows over his use of the gesture. Anelka has since promised not to repeat it. The former Arsenal, Manchester City, Chelsea, Liverpool, Bolton and Real Madrid striker has been accused of a "shocking and disgusting" act by France's Sport Minster Valerie Fourneyron. West Brom sponsor Zoopla has announced it will end its agreement with the club at the end of the season because of the incident. |
|
|
|
Post by sharky on Jan 22, 2014 15:17:33 GMT
The latest from the BBC www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25845493 Nicolas Anelka: West Brom striker wants FA to lift 'quenelle' charge Nicolas Anelka has called on the Football Association to lift the charge against him for his 'quenelle' gesture. The West Brom striker faces a minimum five-match ban if found guilty of making an "abusive" sign. "I ask the FA to lift the charges that have been held against me," he wrote on his Facebook page. "I am neither anti-Semitic nor racist." What is a quenelle gesture? It is a hand gesture devised by French comedian Dieudonne M'bala M'bala, who says it's an anti-establishment symbol However, many view it as an anti-Semitic gesture, reminiscent of the Nazi salute People have been photographed making the sign at synagogues and Holocaust sites Read the full details on BBC Magazine Monitor Meanwhile, more of West Brom's sponsors are considering their relationship with the club. Anelka has also criticised the FA's decision to bring in an expert to study the gesture he made after scoring in the 3-3 draw at West Ham on 28 December. The striker posted a video featuring Roger Cukierman, head of Jewish organisation CRIF (Representative Council of French Jewish Institutions), on Twitter on Tuesday and believes the football governing body should have sought his views. The ex-France international continued: "The English FA have employed an expert to rule on the significance of my quenelle. He has concluded that my gesture had an anti-Semitic connotation, which had led to me being charged by the FA. "It would have been legitimate if this expert had been French, living in France and with an exact understanding of my gesture. "What better expert than Mr Cukierman, head of Jewish organisation CRIF, who explains very clearly that my quenelle could not be considered anti-Semitic. "He also explains precisely when this gesture could have such a connotation." Following property website Zoopla's decision not to renew their sponsorship, which expires at the end of the season, shipping company FCL Global Forwarding, the University of Wolverhampton, German outdoor clothing company Jack Wolfskin and Holler Watches are reviewing their deals with the club. David Baddiel speaks to the BBC's Newsnight about the Anelka gesture FCL signed an initial two-year contract with West Brom in August 2013 to become the Premier League club's official logistics supplier. The Birmingham-based company will hold discussions on Wednesday about how to respond to the controversy. The University of Wolverhampton says it will consider its sponsorship of the Baggies at the end of the 2013-14 season. Marvin Troemer, a Jack Wolfskin spokesman, said: "We strongly disapprove of any gesture or statement meant to discriminate against a single person or certain group of people. "Now we are waiting on the judgment of the FA commission before taking further steps. It is true that we are considering this [ending the West Brom deal] as one option." A spokesman for West Brom's official timing partner Holler Watches added it is "reviewing its position with West Brom moving forward" and continuing to monitor the situation. West Brom's commercial department made no comment on the possibility of losing further sponsorship deals. Anelka, who has previously had spells with Arsenal, Manchester City, Chelsea, Liverpool, Bolton and Real Madrid, has until 18:00 GMT on Thursday to inform the FA if he intends to contest the charges. |
|
|
|
Post by sharky on Jan 22, 2014 22:47:42 GMT
What's been reported in the local paper in Perth, the West Australian au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/sport/a/20960803/anelka-calls-for-race-charge-to-be-dropped/ Anelka calls for race charge to be dropped January 23, 2014, 5:44 am West Brom's Nicolas Anelka (R) and called for the FA to drop charges over an alleged racial gesture. A statement on Nicolas Anelka's Facebook page quotes the West Bromwich Albion striker as challenging the English Football Association's charge for a racially aggravated gesture. Anelka wrote: "I ask the English FA to kindly lift the charges alleged against me. And I repeat, I am not anti-Semitic or racist." He was charged on Tuesday by the association for performing a gesture considered to be anti-Semitic while celebrating a goal. Anelka then used his Twitter account to link to an online video from a French Jewish leader who said the player shouldn't be punished. Roger Cukierman, President of the Representative Council of French Jewish Institutions, said it was a "gesture of rebellion". Anelka on Wednesday said Cukierman is the "best expert" to the gesture's meaning. |
|
|
|
Post by londonranger on Jan 22, 2014 23:55:49 GMT
Footballers should stick to playing football. BBC stick to broadcasting. Now, if footballer deaf, he can make signs to interpreter or he can clap.
. Otherwise, show your magic with your feet. Shoemaker, stick to your Last.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2014 22:08:31 GMT
I can't help but appreciate the irony here. I used to go to school with one of the founders and owners of Zoopla and I reckon that he is one of the biggest, lying pieces of bigoted sh1t ever to walk the planet. If he and Anelka were aligned in what they respectively believe, they would get on like a house on fire. Preferably with both of them in it. Sounds like a classic case of dont throw stones if you live in a glass house. And him being a lying bigoted piece of sh*t is probably some of the reasons he is now a millionaire, nothing worse mark than horrible people you know doing well for themselves, thats something that pisses me off. |
|
|
|
Post by cpr on Jan 24, 2014 15:27:38 GMT
Do nice people become multi millionaires?
|
|
|
|
Post by rousdonhoop on Jan 24, 2014 18:27:03 GMT
I see Chelsea new signing Salah refused to shake hands with Israeli opponents. This behaviour needs to be nipped in the bud sharpish
|
|
|
|
Post by sharky on Jan 25, 2014 1:02:59 GMT
The latest from the BBC www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25879248Nicolas Anelka: 'Quenelle' hearing set for late February By Richard Conway BBC Radio 5 live sports news correspondent The Football Association hearing to rule on Nicolas Anelka's 'quenelle' gesture is not likely to begin until the end of February. The West Brom striker's legal team are expected to be given around three weeks in order to construct a defence. The former France international denies a charge of making a gesture that was "abusive and/or indecent and/or insulting and/or improper". Anelka, 34, faces a minimum five-match ban if found guilty. That tariff was introduced by the FA following similarly high-profile cases involving Chelsea's John Terry and Liverpool's Luis Suarez. Dieudonne M'bala M'bala and Nicolas Anelka perform a "quenelle" gesture In both of those lengthy cases, the players were given a prolonged period to build their defence. It took more than three weeks for the charge against Anelka to be brought, and his legal team are expected to be allowed a similar length of time to establish their argument. A further week is likely to be needed for administrative details to be organised, while there is expected to be some legal discussion between barristers from both sides. A three-member panel, headed by a QC, will form the independent commission to consider evidence from lawyers representing both the FA and On Wednesday, Anelka asked the FA to drop the charge, stating he was "neither anti-Semitic, nor racist". West Brom have asked Anelka not to repeat the celebration but will keep him available for selection until the hearing. Anelka made the gesture, described by some as an inverted Nazi salute, after scoring in the 3-3 draw at West Ham in December. Afterwards, France's sports minister Valerie Fourneyron branded the salute as "disgusting". The player however has insisted it was purely as a show of support for the creator of the quenelle, his friend the controversial French comedian Dieudonne M'bala M'bala ,who has been prosecuted for anti-Semitism. Anelka has said the salute was "anti-establishment", rather than anti-Semitic. |
|
Sabas
Dave Sexton
Posts: 2,349
|
Post by Sabas on Jan 25, 2014 13:07:41 GMT
Anelka didn't make that gesture to offend the Jews. He said that, and I won't try to believe otherwise.
The gesture. It was made to support his fellow muslim friend. Support in what and why? As I understand the support has to do with the fact that Dieudonne is fighting his fight against the 'Jewish establishment' - both locally and globally. Is that a crime? No, not in itself.
Is the gesture 'wrong'? We don't know. We can only interpret. Is it 'inverted nazi salute'? We don't know, we can only guess and interpret. Given the information I have, to me it looks like a strongly anti-Zionist sign.
Is it bad in itself? No. Do I like it? No. But I don't have to. Is it 'chargable'? For me - no. FA, under enormous pressure, are inventing their own meta-morality which can be expressed in financial charges and restricting a player's right to play and club's right to play the player.
So far, there has been no voice of any muslim organisations or simply - no voice of any kind of real support to Anelka. So, under the pressure it has been put to, the FA went the easiest way and thought: If we don't charge him, it's clear we're going to anger a lot of organisations who are after Anelka and Dieudonne… if we do charge him -- Anelka's on his own.
FA went with the mob and charged Anelka about something that's very difficult to clearly judge. And to me, that stinks.
|
|
|
|
Post by sharky on Jan 25, 2014 13:32:10 GMT
Anelka didn't make that gesture to offend the Jews. He said that, and I won't try to believe otherwise. The gesture. It was made to support his fellow muslim friend. Support in what and why? As I understand the support has to do with the fact that Dieudonne is fighting his fight against the 'Jewish establishment' - both locally and globally. Is that a crime? No, not in itself. Is the gesture 'wrong'? We don't know. We can only interpret. Is it 'inverted nazi salute'? We don't know, we can only guess and interpret. Given the information I have, to me it looks like a strongly anti-Zionist sign. Is it bad in itself? No. Do I like it? No. But I don't have to. Is it 'chargable'? For me - no. FA, under enormous pressure, are inventing their own meta-morality which can be expressed in financial charges and restricting a player's right to play and club's right to play the player. So far, there has been no voice of any muslim organisations or simply - no voice of any kind of real support to Anelka. So, under the pressure it has been put to, the FA went the easiest way and thought: If we don't charge him, it's clear we're going to anger a lot of organisations who are after Anelka and Dieudonne… if we do charge him -- Anelka's on his own. FA went with the mob and charged Anelka about something that's very difficult to clearly judge. And to me, that stinks. Of course Anelke will say it wasn't to offend Jews. However it has offeded many Jewish people. And what's this against global Jewish establishment cr*p. Let's not get into this neo nazi sympathiser business. Let's leave it to the FA to sort it out please! |
|
Sabas
Dave Sexton
Posts: 2,349
|
Post by Sabas on Jan 25, 2014 15:04:15 GMT
Anelka didn't make that gesture to offend the Jews. He said that, and I won't try to believe otherwise. The gesture. It was made to support his fellow muslim friend. Support in what and why? As I understand the support has to do with the fact that Dieudonne is fighting his fight against the 'Jewish establishment' - both locally and globally. Is that a crime? No, not in itself. Is the gesture 'wrong'? We don't know. We can only interpret. Is it 'inverted nazi salute'? We don't know, we can only guess and interpret. Given the information I have, to me it looks like a strongly anti-Zionist sign. Is it bad in itself? No. Do I like it? No. But I don't have to. Is it 'chargable'? For me - no. FA, under enormous pressure, are inventing their own meta-morality which can be expressed in financial charges and restricting a player's right to play and club's right to play the player. So far, there has been no voice of any muslim organisations or simply - no voice of any kind of real support to Anelka. So, under the pressure it has been put to, the FA went the easiest way and thought: If we don't charge him, it's clear we're going to anger a lot of organisations who are after Anelka and Dieudonne… if we do charge him -- Anelka's on his own. FA went with the mob and charged Anelka about something that's very difficult to clearly judge. And to me, that stinks. Of course Anelke will say it wasn't to offend Jews. However it has offeded many Jewish people. And what's this against global Jewish establishment cr*p. Let's not get into this neo nazi sympathiser business. Let's leave it to the FA to sort it out please! So you refuse to have your own opinion? Have you even read the FA's verdict? No? That's because they won't give it to you. And it won't give it to you because you don't care. No evidence, no trial, let's just charge the guy and not bother with any explanations. And everybody's OK with that. For you it's crap, for Palestinians and other muslims the issue is not crap at all. They have their rights to express their opinion. And unless it's violent and anti-semitic, they should be left with that right. Is football match a place to demonstrate such views - that's another question. But regardless of any answer it's still not a thing that should be condemned, charged and punished. And if someone feels offended, it's their feelings, their right and choice to feel so. But if Anelka didn't do anything criminal and truly hateful to make them feel that way, he should be left in peace. Otherwise - let the police charge him. Neo nazi? Black neo-nazi muslims, that's one brilliant oxymoron. It's so easy to just throw these labels at anyone and not feel any responsibility. It's disgusting. Right now in Kiev there's a national rebellion against the president and government… The most active members of that rebellion, leading the bloody battle against the police, army and special forces, are called "Praviy sektor" ("The Right Sector")… it's a unit of several radical ultra rightwing pro-fascist neo-nazi organisations that are using disgusting openly fascist symbols. I'm one of the rare guys on social networks who is trying to express the disbelief and disgust of their actions. The majority of society in the neighbouring countries to Ukraine are expressing their support of rebellion. While ignoring these despicable fascist methods and symbols - all for "the greater good". And I'm fighting against that, and sometimes I feel like I'm the only one… So please, please, don't give me that "neo nazi sympathizer" bullshit. I'm as anti-nazi as you could ever get. Yet still, I strongly feel that Anelka has been treated unfairly. That is all. |
|
|
|
Post by sharky on Jan 25, 2014 16:10:34 GMT
Sabas, let's agree to disagree on this non football matter and talk about what we do agree about, our love of the mighty Hoops.
|
|
peterg
Ian Holloway
Posts: 466
|
Post by peterg on Jan 25, 2014 17:38:23 GMT
Here is where I am with all this at the moment
Regardless if left or right black or white my understanding is that gestures or actions that are either racist or overtly political in nature are not allowed to be made by players on a football pitch
One way or the other Anelka is guilty. The gesture was either anti Semitic or it was political. Either way he is guilty of breaking the rules. He knew what he was doing
There should be no room for racism or politics on the football field.
|
|
Sabas
Dave Sexton
Posts: 2,349
|
Post by Sabas on Jan 25, 2014 18:42:56 GMT
Here is where I am with all this at the moment Regardless if left or right black or white my understanding is that gestures or actions that are either racist or overtly political in nature are not allowed to be made by players on a football pitch One way or the other Anelka is guilty. The gesture was either anti Semitic or it was political. Either way he is guilty of breaking the rules. He knew what he was doing There should be no room for racism or politics on the football field. Yes, I agree. But also there shouldn't be any prejudice based on myths and hearsay that you can publicly defame and punish a player with. I'm just not OK with the way Anelka was treated. For me that's also politics. And there's a HUGE difference between political and anti-semitic. So they punished him 'just in case' it was anti-semitic. They could've just said: Stop doing it, whatever it is, a part of society feels offended by it, acknowledge it, stop it, and let's move on. And I wonder what other muslim footballers are thinking. Now, we won't hear their opinion, and if they think Anelka was charged unfairly, that will only build tension. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2014 22:13:46 GMT
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2014 22:40:32 GMT
*"We have just enough religion to make us hate, but not enough to make us love one another."*
My mate johnathon swift said that.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2014 23:34:34 GMT
Reckon your mate is a wise man maude.
|
|
|
|
Post by londonranger on Jan 26, 2014 2:14:43 GMT
I hope this information may put this issue to rest. Imo our board has had enough of it.
France Today.
Previous
Next
racism
Nicolas Anelka
France
France
What’s in a gesture? The quenelle’s ugly undertones
1 print
©
Text by FRANCE 24
Latest update : 2013-12-30
A probe was launched Monday into whether comedian Dieudonné broke French law by joking about WWII gas chambers, days after his trademark "quenelle", a downward Nazi-style salute, made headlines when a French footballer used it to celebrate a goal.
The scandal has led to renewed calls by French Interior Minister Manuel Valls to ban public appearances by French anti-Zionist comedian and would-be politician Dieudonné M’Bala M’Bala (pictured), who is credited with inventing the gesture.
Valls is considering whether to ban all of his public appearances, saying Dieudonné is "no longer a comedian" but rather an "anti-Semite and racist".
Paris prosecutors launched a probe Monday to determine whether Dieudonné is guilty of breaking French laws against inciting racial hatred by joking about "gas chambers" while talking about a Jewish journalist. Judicial sources said the probe would centre around a December 19 performance by Dieudonné, 47, at a Paris theatre where he mocked Jewish radio journalist Patrick Cohen.
"When I hear Patrick Cohen speak, I tell myself, you know, the gas chambers... Shame," Dieudonné said.
Until recently, a quenelle was simply a type of dumpling that is a speciality of the south-eastern French city of Lyon. But the term is now also associated with Dieudonné's gesture of pointing one arm downwards while touching the upper arm with the other hand, in what some describe as a Nazi-style salute.
While similar to the French “up yours” gesture, many also see it as overtly anti-Semitic.
On Saturday the quenelle made global headlines after West Bromwich Albion striker Nicolas Anelka celebrated his second goal against West Ham with a quenelle at a football match in England.
Reacting to a storm of outrage, Anelka said he made the gesture in support of his friend Dieudonné. He also tweeted that the gesture was merely "anti-establishment".
But Alain Jakubowicz, president of the French League against Racism and Anti-Semitism, described the quenelle as a "reverse Nazi salute signifying the sodomisation of the victims of the Shoah".
Others, including Béatrice Bourges, spokeswoman of the “French Spring” movement that campaigned against the legalisation of gay marriage, called the quenelle an “anti-establishment gesture” of “social protest”.
And while the quenelle is not officially an anti-Semitic gesture, the choice of location for many that have had their pictures doing it might suggest otherwise.
Holocaust quenelles
In September, two French soldiers on duty in Paris had their picture taken in front of a synagogue while doing a quenelle.
French National Front founder Jean-Marie Le Pen, who famously called the holocaust a “detail” of the Second World War, has been pictured making the gesture and grinning broadly.
French essayist and fim-maker Alain Soral, a friend of Dieudonné who has been accused of anti-Semitism and is a leading thinker of the French far-right, was photographed in front of the Holocaust Memorial in Berlin doing a quenelle.
Other pictures circulating on the Internet include members of the public making the gesture at the Auschwitz extermination camp in Poland, and in front of goods wagons that were used to transport Jews to their deaths during the Second World War.
The quenelle trademarked
The quenelle got its first public outing in 2005 during a sketch by Dieudonné – who has been convicted seven times on anti-Semitism charges – that, in itself, was not anti-Semitic.
In his performance, Dieudonné describes a revolt by mammals against the human race.
“Mammals are getting organised, they are watching us,” he says. “The dolphin, when he sees a human these days, is mocking us. He knows that he will use his flipper to smash us, right up to here,” he adds, illustrating his point by slapping his shoulder in the gesture that has since become the quenelle.
Since then the quenelle has spread rapidly in France. French academic and far-right expert Jean-Yves Camus, in an interview in left-leaning daily newspaper Libération in September, called the quenelle a “badge of identity, especially among the young, although it is difficult to say whether they really understand its meaning”.
Camus added that Dieudonné has become the focus of a “broad movement that is anti-system and prone to conspiracy theories, but which has anti-Semitism as its backbone”.
“Their conviction is that there is a world order dominated by Washington and Tel Aviv,” he said. “Behind speeches that are critical of NATO and global finance, and supportive of [Syrian President] Bashar al-Assad and [late Venezuelan president] Hugo Chavez, there is the underlying conviction that it is the Jews who are pulling all the strings.”
In August 2013, Dieudonné posted a video in which he argued that the quenelle had taken on a life of its own and had become something he could no longer claim as his exclusively.
“I had no idea that this rather silly gesture could become a subversive act that was capable of becoming the trigger to start the emancipation of the working masses,” he said. “It no longer belongs to me. It belongs to the coming revolution.”
But his claim that the quenelle no longer belongs to him is not altogether true. The comedian has been busy launching a range of quenelle-related merchandise, while his wife in October registered the quenelle as a trademark with the French National Industrial Property Institute.
|
|
|
|
Post by londonranger on Jan 26, 2014 2:31:36 GMT
He sounds like he wants to start, and has, an extremist hate organisation in France.
The FA sees fit to punish Anelka. He has to take the consequences. Cannot care what was in his head when he made it.
Now, I am Jewish and a life long QPR fan. During the War was often accused in school of starting the War, us jews.
What they didnt know that only one man stood between all of us Jews in London ( they had all our names) of being herded to a stadium shipped to France
and then to Auschwitz. That man was Winston Churchill. Who argued with Parliament for two weeks not to capitulate to Hitler, and finally he won. Now there
are still many who felt that too many Jews survived over the world.
As an original Mod on this board, I would like to have this post end this discussion. It is upsetting me so much, that I would like to lock it.
I am not allowed to do that and dont have authority.
Lets beat Bolton, and kick out this ugly dumpling from our great Blogsite.
|
|
|
|
Post by Markqpr on Jan 27, 2014 14:45:15 GMT
Sounds like a classic case of dont throw stones if you live in a glass house. And him being a lying bigoted piece of sh*t is probably some of the reasons he is now a millionaire, nothing worse mark than horrible people you know doing well for themselves, thats something that pisses me off. To be honest, I applaud him for his business acumen and subsequent success. Zoopla is the second start up that he has made into a major national company and industry leader, so fair play to him there. It's the hypocrisy in this matter that he is demonstrating that annoys me. Peoples' successes in life should be celebrated in my opinion but hypocrisy will always earn my scorn. Do nice people become multi millionaires? I know what you mean, but yes, sometimes some of us do!   |
|
|
|
Post by cpr on Jan 27, 2014 20:37:42 GMT
Don't believe you. |
|
|
|
Post by Markqpr on Jan 28, 2014 14:20:59 GMT
Don't believe you. Are you suggesting that I'm not a nice person?  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2014 18:56:05 GMT
Sounds like a classic case of dont throw stones if you live in a glass house. And him being a lying bigoted piece of sh*t is probably some of the reasons he is now a millionaire, nothing worse mark than horrible people you know doing well for themselves, thats something that pisses me off. To be honest, I applaud him for his business acumen and subsequent success. Zoopla is the second start up that he has made into a major national company and industry leader, so fair play to him there. It's the hypocrisy in this matter that he is demonstrating that annoys me. Peoples' successes in life should be celebrated in my opinion but hypocrisy will always earn my scorn. Do nice people become multi millionaires? I know what you mean, but yes, sometimes some of us do! Were have to a agree to disagree, I know some nasty pieces of work, horrible specimens of human beings, who are or have had success but there is nothing to celebrate as there crimes far outweigh the good of their success, the lost prophets singer had success but there is now way i could raise a glass to him for that success. |
|
Sabas
Dave Sexton
Posts: 2,349
|
Post by Sabas on Jan 28, 2014 20:39:39 GMT
What are we talking about here? … My strong belief is that, no matter what, you have to have some very clear and specific proof; and even if you don't, you have to be able to explain openly and publicly why you are charging a person financially and restricting his rights to work. You have to. Even if FA and organisations that have put pressure on it are right - they have to explain their decision very calmly and clearly.
So that no one would still had to look up their own truths on wiki articles and so on. If you take that responsibility - be fully responsible for it.
And let me say this. Londonrager, I respect you and I understand you. And I feel bad about the fact that you feel bad about Anelka's gesture. But this world that we're living it right now - it's insanely complex and confusing, different cultures mix and evolve, and inevitably there are some tricky or difficult issues that come with it; it's very comfortable for one culture to judge another by its own standards and angles, but I think we have to try and look at things through a point of view that no one is trying to deliberately hurt no one. Yes, there will be some dishonest corrupt people who will try to slip their hatred under the 'swastika is an Indian sun symbol of happiness' nonsense, but that's not always the case.
Perhaps Dieudonne is a despicable sleazy character hiding his hatred under his comedian mask. But perhaps he is not, maybe he's just a man with his own honestly twisted and - to me and you - improper point of view. And we don't have to agree to it. But also - it doesn't automatically mean it's criminal or that it should be banned and punished. (Yes - if the reports are correct, he said one or two things that I despise… But that doesn't mean he's evil and that EVERYTHING else that he says or does is automatically evil.) Whatever's the case, it should be thoroughly investigated and explained. And then it certainly doesn't mean that Anelka IS Dieudonne. That whatever says the latter, the former says too.
Only if we are open, eager to analyse, to learn, to teach and to forgive - only then we can hope our societies mixed with different cultures can progress and live in tolerance.
But if we are stubborn, closed, quick to judge, to condemn, to disapprove, to disallow, to ban, to write off… to close our ears, to be offended… the FAs will always try to create a sterile environment where no player should do anything - keep your celebrations as neutral as possible, don't curse, don't show off, and so on.
And if someone does something truly atrocious - sincerely or by accident - you should be able to calmly explain to public AND to that player that he was wrong; and why he was wrong.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2014 22:12:54 GMT
And if someone does something truly atrocious - sincerely or by accident - you should be able to calmly explain to public AND to that player that he was wrong; and why he was wrong. when cantona done that flying kick in the crowd at selhurst park i thought that was bad, but now i think it was quite funny. |
|
