|
Post by Macmoish on Dec 9, 2011 10:41:17 GMT
[Edit/Bump: December 9, 2011 ] Property Week Magazine Queens Park Rangers this week kicked off a hunt for a new football ground in west London’s White City. The Premier League club is close to appointing Lambert Smith Hampton to search for a 40,000 to 45,000-seat ground. Candidates include sites in the 272 acre White City Opportunity Area, where the club’s 18,500-seat Loftus Road stadium is located. It has also emerged that local planners would favour a neighbouring council estate if the club invested in new housing and regeneration. QPR is the latest in a string of London football clubs to join a land grab to try to boost capacity and increase revenues from larger crowds. The outdated Loftus Road is the smallest ground in the league. Relocation plans for Chelsea, Tottenham Hotspur, West Ham and now QPR are tantalising developers with the prospect of bringing valuable sites to the market, while also creating further opportunities for the industry to sell land to the clubs. QPR is understood to be close to agreeing to commission LSH, the agent selling the nearby BBC’s TV Centre, for the ambitious expansion plans alluded to by majority shareholder Tony Fernandes last week.The club is likely to need a site of around 15 acres for a move from its Loftus Road ground, which occupies little more than 5 acres. Within the White City area, there are several of sufficient scale, but none would be an easy win for QPR. Sources said the club would consider enlarging its existing ground, but it is hemmed in by private housing and a road. Any redevelopment would also require a temporary ground share elsewhere. The more obvious move involves the White City council estate, to the west of Wood Lane, which is owned by Hammersmith and Fulham Council. QPR is believed to have looked closely at the land between Loftus Road and Television Centre. It appears to have held discussions with the council already about this possible move, led by planning consultants at Savills. Significantly, April’s White City Opportunity Area framework makes provisions for the estates to incorporate a “brand-new football stadium” to replace “the cramped and outdated ground at Loftus Road”. However, QPR and LSH would have to come up with “acceptable and compatible proposals” that would regenerate the housing estate itself. Wealthy shareholders including Fernandes and Indian steel dynasty the Mittal family would be called on to help pay for the new homes, and this could take in BBC land north of Television Centre. Sites owned by Helical Bar and Marks & Spencer to the west of Wood Lane are closer to public transport links, but not large enough individually, and landowners are pursuing their own plans there. Chelsea Football Club has also been linked to sites at White City, but owner Roman Abramovich is understood to have been put off by its proximity to QPR. All parties, including QPR and LSH, declined to comment. www.propertyweek.com/news/news-by-sector/hotels-and-leisure/qprs-white-city-quest-football-club-lines-up-lsh-for-stadium-hunt/5029040.articlereposted from www.wearetherangersboys.com/forum/showthread.php?t=121873
|
|
|
Post by RoryTheRanger on Dec 9, 2011 10:50:53 GMT
Very interesting article.
|
|
|
Post by gramps on Dec 9, 2011 10:55:06 GMT
I wonder if these ambitious plans will go ahead if we don't stay up!
|
|
|
Post by Markqpr on Dec 11, 2011 11:58:26 GMT
A while back I posted up the development plans for the White City redevelopment scheme, which encompass the areas discussed above. They were from the LSH website at the time, but to my knowledge the club had yet to consult them on the proposals. You can check the masterplan here again: www.lsh.co.uk/bbctelevisioncentre/pdf/projectb_masterplan.pdfAs I said at the time the plans do not include us, but there was a site available in Park Royal that would have suited us on an initial look, without going into the details, which was actually going for a decent price. That site has since been sold by LSH for £3.9m and Beard has also since stated that the board would prefer the club to remain 'local'. That was an undefined description for me, for how local is local? Is Park Royal local for example or was he stating an intention not to move out of the area? The development of Rangers now commissioning LSH to propose a new ground within the White City area answers that as it shows that we are seriously looking at remaining very close to where we are now which is an exciting development and one the club's board need to act on sooner rather than later before the land is sold off to other developers who could close us out or hike up the price of any land we would require in the future. The time to strike is now and I don't believe our board will let this opportunity pass without extreme scrutiny and this is a really massive positive step in the direction of staying in the area I've always seen as Ranger's true home.
|
|
ingham
Dave Sexton
Posts: 1,896
|
Post by ingham on Dec 11, 2011 13:55:44 GMT
Just what is required to galvanize the Club. Move from one building to another. Imagine the interest and the increase in revenue.
Guess what, QPR are playing in a different building! A different building, wow! Let's go there. Now!
What's it like? Not, not .... concrete, steel girders, bit of grass in the middle, is it, goalposts, that sort of thing?
YES. How did you guess? It's the only one in the League, no-one else can compete, and it's extraterritorial, it's part of India, so attendances are around the 1 billion mark.
You know the chairman. No. Well he supports West Ham. Clever. But he had a soft spot for QPR in the seventies. Or the eighties. Or whenever.
No, but imagine the effect on the Club. Like what? No idea, but it's great, isn't it? It isn't going to be one of those, oh, what do you call them? Confidence tricks? Er, design a big stadium, build a small one, that sort of thing?
No. What, sell off Loftus Road, transfer the 'ABC' debt to the new site, then just clear off, pocketing the cash? Yeah.
Course not.
Isn't 45,000 is a little on the small side? With our present performances - never before matched by any side half way down the table - our gates (surely 65,000 is possible given our potential?) - and our healthy finances (no debt apart from what we owe), is there any limit?
25,000? With car parking and all that.
This is going to be big. Has anyone else come up with a plan as radical as this? Yeah, OK, it's hard to think of anyone who hasn't. Anywhere. Even Bristol City. Right. And THAT'S going to be an Olympic stadium. They're always having Olympics in Bristol. You mean the World Cup. I think I do. City qualify for it all the time.
Wasn't Sepp Blatter saying just the other day, why doesn't someone redevelop the White City Estate? No. I thought not.
Remember this will enable them to compete with Liverpool. Oh yeah, Fayed said that. Aren't Fulham £165 million in debt? No-one's telling, but Liverpool must be nervous, mustn't they? If they build that 77,000 capacity ground, how will they compete?
But that's in the future, if it happens at all. Unlike this one.
|
|
|
Post by Bushman on Dec 11, 2011 14:07:31 GMT
Just what is required to galvanize the Club. Move from one building to another. Imagine the interest and the increase in revenue. Guess what, QPR are playing in a different building! A different building, wow! Let's go there. Now! What's it like? Not, not .... concrete, steel girders, bit of grass in the middle, is it, goalposts, that sort of thing? YES. How did you guess? It's the only one in the League, no-one else can compete, and it's extraterritorial, it's part of India, so attendances are around the 1 billion mark. You know the chairman. No. Well he supports West Ham. Clever. But he had a soft spot for QPR in the seventies. Or the eighties. Or whenever. No, but imagine the effect on the Club. Like what? No idea, but it's great, isn't it? It isn't going to be one of those, oh, what do you call them? Confidence tricks? Er, design a big stadium, build a small one, that sort of thing? No. What, sell off Loftus Road, transfer the 'ABC' debt to the new site, then just clear off, pocketing the cash? Yeah. Course not. Isn't 45,000 is a little on the small side? With our present performances - never before matched by any side half way down the table - our gates (surely 65,000 is possible given our potential?) - and our healthy finances (no debt apart from what we owe), is there any limit? 25,000? With car parking and all that. This is going to be big. Has anyone else come up with a plan as radical as this? Yeah, OK, it's hard to think of anyone who hasn't. Anywhere. Even Bristol City. Right. And THAT'S going to be an Olympic stadium. They're always having Olympics in Bristol. You mean the World Cup. I think I do. City qualify for it all the time. Wasn't Sepp Blatter saying just the other day, why doesn't someone redevelop the White City Estate? No. I thought not. Remember this will enable them to compete with Liverpool. Oh yeah, Fayed said that. Aren't Fulham £165 million in debt? No-one's telling, but Liverpool must be nervous, mustn't they? If they build that 77,000 capacity ground, how will they compete? But that's in the future, if it happens at all. Unlike this one. Not like you to be cynical ingham ;D
|
|
|
Post by Markqpr on Dec 11, 2011 14:22:57 GMT
Just what is required to galvanize the Club. Move from one building to another. Imagine the interest and the increase in revenue. Guess what, QPR are playing in a different building! A different building, wow! Let's go there. Now! What's it like? Not, not .... concrete, steel girders, bit of grass in the middle, is it, goalposts, that sort of thing? YES. How did you guess? It's the only one in the League, no-one else can compete, and it's extraterritorial, it's part of India, so attendances are around the 1 billion mark. You know the chairman. No. Well he supports West Ham. Clever. But he had a soft spot for QPR in the seventies. Or the eighties. Or whenever. No, but imagine the effect on the Club. Like what? No idea, but it's great, isn't it? It isn't going to be one of those, oh, what do you call them? Confidence tricks? Er, design a big stadium, build a small one, that sort of thing? No. What, sell off Loftus Road, transfer the 'ABC' debt to the new site, then just clear off, pocketing the cash? Yeah. Course not. Isn't 45,000 is a little on the small side? With our present performances - never before matched by any side half way down the table - our gates (surely 65,000 is possible given our potential?) - and our healthy finances (no debt apart from what we owe), is there any limit? 25,000? With car parking and all that. This is going to be big. Has anyone else come up with a plan as radical as this? Yeah, OK, it's hard to think of anyone who hasn't. Anywhere. Even Bristol City. Right. And THAT'S going to be an Olympic stadium. They're always having Olympics in Bristol. You mean the World Cup. I think I do. City qualify for it all the time. Wasn't Sepp Blatter saying just the other day, why doesn't someone redevelop the White City Estate? No. I thought not. Remember this will enable them to compete with Liverpool. Oh yeah, Fayed said that. Aren't Fulham £165 million in debt? No-one's telling, but Liverpool must be nervous, mustn't they? If they build that 77,000 capacity ground, how will they compete? But that's in the future, if it happens at all. Unlike this one. If you build it they will come. Ah, actually maybe not! Sunderland, Middlesbrough and others can attest to that. So, build it and we're damned or don't build it and we're damned! At least the major shareholders will be happy if we do, for it has unlimited potential. Well unlimited up till 45,000. Then it's limited. But what exactly is potential anyway and how can you quantify it let alone speculate on it? Maybe LSH can find us the players to go along with it. In 125 years we haven't and as such haven't needed it, until now that is, obviously. Have a Happy Xmas Ingham!
|
|
|
Post by scarletpimple on Dec 11, 2011 21:12:47 GMT
Park Royal is nearer to the Northolt massive.........
|
|
|
Post by 0hwestlondon on Dec 11, 2011 22:34:21 GMT
well i for one believe we could refurb lr but there is no money in that so sell and build another looks the mantra.
if we do go then tony needs to listen to the fans on the design of the stadium, but something tells me we wont get a say or any real involvement in any new stadium to be built, 45,000 get real 28,000 max is what we should aim for, though 23,000 would probably be more realistic.
|
|
|
Post by maudesfishnchips on Dec 11, 2011 23:16:36 GMT
3d cinema with twenty and six fast food outlets, multiplex gymnasium with a bowling alley, arcade with a bingo hall and numerous halls to hire with a tesco express at every turn, chemists and a doctors surgery for your convenience, places to buy a suit or even casual wear, a museum to show what the site looked like in the past with a working toilet, a tube station goes right into the complex so no need to walk along the uxbridge rd to see the ugly sites of w12. + a football team
= new stadium
|
|
|
Post by 0hwestlondon on Dec 11, 2011 23:20:22 GMT
3d cinema with twenty and six fast food outlets, multiplex gymnasium with a bowling alley, arcade with a bingo hall and numerous halls to hire with a tesco express at every turn, chemists and a doctors surgery for your convenience, places to buy a suit or even casual wear, a museum to show what the site looked like in the past with a working toilet, a tube station goes right into the complex so no need to walk along the uxbridge rd to see the ugly sites of w12. + a football team = new stadium so you want a mega bowl with the rs as offical partners
|
|
|
Post by Macmoish on Dec 11, 2011 23:25:14 GMT
I trust Fernandes. But ..."Trust but Verify"...I look to the fan groups - especially QPR1st & LSA to make sure everything is done and not just accept whatever... Certainly the idea of a 45,000 stadium seems totally nuts. And we could be left with a big white 2/3 empty elephant.
|
|
|
Post by maudesfishnchips on Dec 11, 2011 23:41:48 GMT
I trust Fernandes. But ..."Trust but Verify"...I look to the fan groups - especially QPR1st & LSA to make sure everything is done and not just accept whatever... Certainly the idea of a 45,000 stadium seems totally nuts. And we could be left with a big white 2/3 empty elephant. 46,000 or more is corporate, to fill seats at a football match is a lesser concern to investors who will look to earn profit from its 'subsidiary's'. concerts and billy graham can take up the slack.
|
|
|
Post by RoryTheRanger on Dec 12, 2011 0:56:20 GMT
Personally I think exactly 30,000 is perfect. You have to think when talking about capacity of stadiums is that the number isn't just home fans. We would have about 3,500, maybe 4,000 away capacity as well.
|
|
|
Post by sharky on Dec 12, 2011 9:08:57 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Macmoish on Dec 12, 2011 9:31:26 GMT
Let's assume that even under Ferndandes/Bhatia we don't become a top six or top ten club, but we continue along - like Stoke or WBA or Birmingham or Sunderland, as a generally Premier club...Maybe occasional relegation and then speedy bounce backs. I just see nothing in QPR history of attendances to suggest we'd get anywhere near 40,000 - or even 30,000 gates.
And once the Back-in-the-Premiership wanes in a year or two (assuming we stay up), without actual success, support will wane. (Maybe more than 18,000. Maybe But not a lot more)
SO we'll be playing in a half empty new stadium...And that won't help the team...
And despite all the self-congratulatory "How great our supporters are" - the attendance stats for QPR over the past 40 years - compared to other clubs - show that we're not that well supported.
Now growing overseas support/buying QPR material: Great. That can be done. But building a (much) bigger QPR base. I don't see it
|
|
|
Post by kempton ranger on Dec 12, 2011 10:16:15 GMT
Agree Mac, I would think a 25,000 seater would be plenty, but I am not TF or AB. They have a vision beyond our own, so good luck to them and our club.
|
|
|
Post by Lonegunmen on Dec 13, 2011 4:21:21 GMT
Compromise. 30k seater.
|
|
|
Post by Macmoish on Dec 13, 2011 8:35:39 GMT
Forget for a moment how much money a new stadium would cost - Land & Building vs how much we'd get from selling Loftus Road... Because if we get a big debt from new stadium, obviously have interest payments to pay off each year.
How much more income would we get a year from a new Stadium? From QPR attendances, other use of the stadium? Maybe naming rights (although could rename Loftus Road a la Newcastle)
My vague impression is the big money comes from TV, sponsorship, overseas fans buying products...
|
|
|
Post by cpr on Dec 13, 2011 8:41:13 GMT
Sod the stadium, we don't need one yet, by all means acquire the land as a club asset, that'll do for now.
The important thing is a training ground, that the club owns, a vital asset, not only for reserve matches, first team training but for the all important youth academy section to give us the opportunity to attract good youngsters and to bring our own through to the first team
|
|
|
Post by Zamoraaaah on Dec 13, 2011 8:55:00 GMT
Sod the stadium, we don't need one yet, by all means acquire the land as a club asset, that'll do for now. The important thing is a training ground, that the club owns, a vital asset, not only for reserve matches, first team training but for the all important youth academy section to give us the opportunity to attract good youngsters and to bring our own through to the first teamExactly.
|
|
ingham
Dave Sexton
Posts: 1,896
|
Post by ingham on Dec 13, 2011 16:22:29 GMT
Cynical, bushman? ;D
Threads like this make life worth living. Well, messageboard life worth living anyway. So much sense talked in every post.
Except for maude's unfortunate flight into fantasy - a working toilet? Let's try to be realistic.
It is remarkable how level-headed Rs supporters are, given the tendency to over-egg the pudding in the boardroom. It isn't just that we've been around for much longer than they have. Football is difficult, very difficult.
As Mac says, the back-in-the-premiership feeling diminishes over time. Clubs do just poodle along now and then, apparently aware of their limitations. We did it under Thompson for quite a few years. But that fell apart almost overnight.
And now every Club imagines it can do what QPR did in the Gregory era. In those days, it was very difficult, but now, almost any Club can, and so many of them do, merely by borrowing the money to pay for a brief interval in the top flight.
I was reading about Brentford the other day (possibly in gramps's book). The first Club which had been a member of the First Division AFTER World War 2 to end up in the Fourth Division.
And Happy Christmas to you mark!
|
|
|
Post by Macmoish on Dec 12, 2012 8:22:18 GMT
Bump a year
Wonder how it's going...
How our possible relegation will affect things
Pre-Season, it sounded like an announcement would be made within weeks (ie before now, I thought)
|
|
|
Post by Macmoish on Dec 12, 2012 8:37:20 GMT
Probably more than one statement. This from July 9 2012 from Chairman Fernandes Tony Fernandes Tweets Today Tony Fernandes @tonyfernandes - Our major announcement today is at 3 o clock and what the shareholders of QPR believe is a statement of Intent for the future. - QPR fans. We are not ready to announce stadium. But making good progress. I shall update on twitter. - Will not be a bowl. Will keep the atmosphere. Will be 45k capacity. Will be in West London. Narrowed down to 2 places. - I hope we can announce full details within the next 2 months. But as you can imagine this is not easy but tremendous work has been done.| qprreport.blogspot.com/2012/07/qpr-report-monday-players-report-back.html
|
|
|
Post by Hogan on Dec 12, 2012 9:14:43 GMT
Probably more than one statement. This from July 9 2012 from Chairman Fernandes Tony Fernandes Tweets Today Tony Fernandes @tonyfernandes - Our major announcement today is at 3 o clock and what the shareholders of QPR believe is a statement of Intent for the future. - QPR fans. We are not ready to announce stadium. But making good progress. I shall update on twitter. - Will not be a bowl. Will keep the atmosphere. Will be 45k capacity. Will be in West London. Narrowed down to 2 places. - I hope we can announce full details within the next 2 months. But as you can imagine this is not easy but tremendous work has been done.| qprreport.blogspot.com/2012/07/qpr-report-monday-players-report-back.htmlDid you miss the grand announcement? Delivered on time and within the remit of the clubs BS dept headed by IJ ?
|
|
|
Post by toboboly on Dec 12, 2012 9:29:01 GMT
We can barely sell out in the PL. Why go for any more than 25k is beyond me. If we change to standing we get more people anyway, problem solved. I also worry that they have referred to the club as "tenents" in a few interviews, Coventry's problems should serve as a warning, as should Portsmouth's.
|
|
|
Post by Macmoish on Dec 12, 2012 9:48:30 GMT
This was before the above: From June 2012 TALKSPORT - QPR chief raises prospect of ground share By Julian Bennetts | Wednesday, June 6, 2012 QPR chief executive Philip Beard admits the club cannot afford to build a new stadium without incorporating a cinema, restaurant or casino - or even ground share with a team from another sport. Rangers are looking to move out of Loftus Road, which is the smallest ground in the Premier League, and are attempting to identify a site near their current west London home. But Beard admits the club has to have a bigger fanbase before they can even consider moving - and says that a football-only stadium would not work. And the man who oversaw the transformation of the Millenium Dome into the 02 has refused to rule out other clubs playing at the stadium, with Fulham and London Wasps both having called Loftus Road home in the past. "To have a stand-alone football stadium that only hosts 19 home domestic matches a season would probably not make the numbers work," he said. "What is important is that it is the home of QPR but it will need to have facilities to do other things as well. If we are serious about building a new stadium we need to grow our fanbase and engage with young people and the community — Philip Beard "A full-on ground-share is more challenging, but I am hoping to emulate an entertainment destination model where you roll the pitch away and use it for other things. "Look at the Emirates hosting Coldplay for three nights - that is the sort of activity you need to host to generate the revenues to make the club sustainable and ultimately invest in the team going forward. "But the criteria is that we need to find somewhere that hopefully isn't too far from Loftus Road. "Our fanbase is a very passionate, loyal and local fanbase. We need to stay in the area if we can and that is almost a must." But Beard first wants to make the club a force both in the Premier League and Europe so that more supporters are attracted to the terraces. Rangers survived on the final day last season but Beard knows an average attendance of 17,295 needs to be improved significantly. He added: "We need to build our fanbase. We have a capacity of 18,500 at Loftus Road and I think we could fill a significantly higher number of seats here. "If we are serious about building a new stadium we need to grow our fanbase and engage with young people and the community and become a club that is not just known in London and around Europe but further afield. "That takes time but it is exciting and is a challenge building a brand, growing a fanbase. That is something I am hoping I can challenge the guys off the pitch to help us with. "QPR stands for so many good things that if we can get the messages out there we will start to see the blue and white Hoops further afield than west London." Talksport qprreport.blogspot.com/2012/06/qpr-report-wednesday-bartonmichael-wale.html
|
|
|
Post by sharky on Dec 12, 2012 13:51:36 GMT
Still think a ground share isn't a bad idea, in particular with a different code like rugby. Means ground used every week and more importantly bringing in money every week.
Particularly important if/when we go down.
|
|
|
Post by toboboly on Dec 12, 2012 14:12:09 GMT
The playing surface will be great.
|
|
|
Post by RoryTheRanger on Dec 12, 2012 14:41:57 GMT
If we want one of the worst pitches in the country then we would go for a ground share with a rugby club.
If we move I want us to move into a place that is ours and ours only, no other sporting teams allowed.
|
|