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Post by Macmoish on May 30, 2011 15:00:23 GMT
Interesting thread on LFW... I honestly haven't thought it through too detailedly (if that's a real word), but... I'm not sure why one would want to strengthen the OSC by going through it when it to me appears more like the Club Supporters group rather than the Fans Supporters groups. (Much like the person running WATRB appears to me far more the club's attempt to bolster a fan board to put out their point of view and "spin") To me, fan groups should stay away from OSC and bolster their own efforts. - in unison (that would be all groups loyal to QPR rather than individuals at the club.) The club say it won't deal with anyone other than OSC...Well make em... Continuation of old efforts to syphon/control fan dissent of a couple years back. Maybe that's how they do it in Italy. Shouldnt be the way it's done here. www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/queensparkrangers/fb_mb.php?m=v&t=28198#13 |
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Post by toboboly on May 30, 2011 15:08:36 GMT
Sorry but as soon as I saw the name Scott Jones I closed the link. Wouldn't trust him on anything.
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Post by Macmoish on May 30, 2011 15:15:36 GMT
That's the proposal - although I'm not doubting Scott's motive actually... But my focus was more on QPR1st (Mygeneration) post Forcing the OSC to have an EGM? by mygeneration on 12:08 - May 30 with 273 viewsJust to confirm the situation as far as QPR1st are concerned. QPR1st received an email from Joe Kyle the Club's Marketing Manager telling us that any concerns the LSA and QPR1st had would now have to be put to the OSC who would then relay these concerns to the Club.The QPR1st Committee replied to say that we did not see the need to use the OSC as a 'middle man' and regretted that the Club seemed to be using the OSC to avoid direct face to face meetings with QPR1st and the LSA. We suggested as an alternative that regular meetings were set up between representatives of the Club with QPR1st and the LSA. We have not heard anything since. The last meeting QPR1st attended of supporters representatives was in 2010. It was organised by Ali Russell and chaired by Ishan Sakensa, both of whom have of course departed. I should point out that this proposal came from Joe Kyle and not from the OSC themselves . www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/queensparkrangers/fb_mb.php?m=v&t=28198#13 |
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Post by toboboly on May 30, 2011 15:19:49 GMT
Club being cowardly and not considering fans? Nothing new then.
I would doubt everything Jones says/does.
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Post by Macmoish on May 30, 2011 16:52:33 GMT
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Dave Sexton
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Post by ingham on May 31, 2011 6:42:29 GMT
Worth remembering that the official Supporters Club died, if I am not mistaken, because it was ultimately the creature of the Club.
And, as such, it was obliged to support Jim Gregory's attempt to close QPR down in 1987 - although this was not the idea of the individuals representing the Supporters Club, of course, as it would have been a rather hilarious way of 'supporting' QPR.
It was around that time that the proliferation of independent supporters' initiatives began. Notably, and among others, the LSA and AKUTRs. With the Trust coming along later when Chris Wright tried to pull the same stunt. And the emergence of the messageboards more recently.
Assaults on the Club aren't new. Gregory tried the same thing 20 years before the Fulham 'merger'. In 1967, when it was turned down by our supporters (and Brentford's).
Curious that he imagined its supporters would welcome the disappearance of their Club at the very moment they were celebrating QPR's finest hour - our 1967 double.
But investors don't think about football clubs the way supporters do.
From their point of view, it is all about themselves. Whereas, to us, it is all about QPR.
By comparison, they are nothing.
And in some cases, less than nothing.
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Post by Macmoish on May 31, 2011 7:00:00 GMT
Good luck to them as QPR supporters. Can understand why club wants to filter fans...But not clear why fans should accept being filtered to the degree they have any say in the matter) Details about the OSC www.qpr.co.uk/page/OfficialSupportersClubIndex/0,,10373,00.html INCLUDING FROM THE OSC CONSTITUTION... PART A: CONSTITUTION... 2.2 To represent the views of the membership directly to the Football Club and form a link between the supporters and the Football Club... 6. Relationship with Queens Park Rangers Football Club6.1 The OSC is managed independently of the Football Club as are its finances
6.2 The Committee will represent the views of the membership through the Football Club’s representative attending meetings at intervals throughout the yearPART B: RULES2.5 It is expected that Committee Members shall not use any OSC meeting or event as a forum for their own means or to further personal or political opinions or agendas 2.6 All business of the OSC shall be deemed confidential and only relayed to non members by agreed means and by the Committee 2.7 Unless specifically requested by the Committee, the publishing of OSC business in any public domain is strictly prohibited. This, and the dissemination of any OSC information, shall be considered a serious breach of membership rules3. Meetings 3.1 The Committee shall meet at such time or times as the Committee shall determine, but at a minimum would aim to meet at least once a month
3.2 It is envisaged to hold regular meetings with Supporters’ Groups, at a minimum on a bi-monthly basis, with feedback discussed at a separate meeting with a representative of the Football Club also to be held bi-monthly... 3.4 Representatives of the Football Club may be asked to attend meetings as the occasion/event dictates 3.5 The Committee may invite any person(s) to attend meetings in a ‘non-voting’ capacity 7. Expulsion from the Committee[/b
7.1 Committee members may be suspended or expelled from the Committee for refusing to comply with the provisions of any of these rules or for any other cause deemed by the Committee to justify such suspension or expulsion, provided that at least two thirds of the Committee then present vote in favour of
his/her suspension or expulsion |
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Dave Mangnall
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Post by finney on May 31, 2011 8:11:33 GMT
the OSC should in my mind all walked out over the fact the club did not have a parade for the fans and the season tickets prices and the way the fans are treated.
But to turn the gun on them and not the people running the club is not fair in my mind and for someone like Scott Jones to have a go at them while telling us his mate Gianni is a good guy is beyond laughable.
The person letters should go to is Paladini he is the face of Flavio he is the one who the FA blamed for fecking us up over the case and he is the one who in my mind is killing this club from within.
The OSC would gain a lot of credit if all people stood down and no one took their place on the committee and it was kicked into touch showing the club what we think of them and that would be a good message to give them.
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Post by isleworthranger on May 31, 2011 8:26:37 GMT
There still appears to be some confusion why this action is being taken so I hope I can try and clarify matters
This is anot an attack on the OSC at all and is in fact an opportunity for us as members and season ticket holders to request an EGM so we can propose a motion along the lines of we have no confidence in the board of directors and are toatally againts the massive price increases
As all members and season ticket holders are members of the OSC it will give anyone interested in showing what they think the chance to vote if the motion can be put to all members within the constitution
It is no secret that the OSC is closely allighned to the club and the club in fact want all matters to go through them only so it gives us the perfect opportunity to show on a massive scale what our feelings are to the board
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Post by haqpr1963 on May 31, 2011 8:43:50 GMT
An interesting post over on WATRBS...... www.wearetherangersboys.com/forum/showpost.php?p=617642&postcount=1I have drafted a letter to the Secretary of the Official Supporters Club, which is below. According to the rules of the OSC, if 30 members request an extraordinary meeting, then one will be called. Please PM me your name and membership number as if you are a member or season ticket holder you are automatically a member of the OSC if you support the call for the meeting as set out below.
Please don't stand by, all you need to do is PM me your name and membership number and I will add your name to the letter, which I intend to email tomorrow and also send by recorded delivery post.
If you have friends not on this site who would like to add their name, please ask them to email me at mrkeirframe@hotmail.com and I will add them to the list.
Dear Secretary,
We, the undersigned wish to use our rights as members of the official supporters club under section 3.8 of the Official Supporters Club manadate to call an extraordinary meeting.
The purpose of the meeting would be to discuss the extortionate increase in ticket prices that we feel are unjustified and unfair on the loyal supporters of the club.
We also would like to discuss recent events around the sale of the club and public statements that have been made by shareholders, and are concerned that the Official Supporters Club do not appear to be meeting regularly or meeting with other supporters groups which are also in the Official Supporters Club's mandate as follows:
3.1 The Committee shall meet at such time or times as the Committee shall determine, but at a minimum would aim to meet at least once a month
3.2 It is envisaged to hold regular meetings with Supporters’ Groups, at a minimum on a bi-monthly basis
It is deemed that for the above reasons that a meeting be called as soon as possible, with an appropriate representative from the club in attendance. Please feel free to respond to this letter through the official website or through any of the recognised supporters groups, publicising details of the meeting to all members of the Official Supporters Club who would all have the right to attend.
Yours Sincerely Come on guys let's back this and show the club that their attempts to split the fanbase are failing.... H |
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Dave Mangnall
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Post by finney on May 31, 2011 9:10:36 GMT
Paul have you got a email address for Gianni he is on the board email him would help as well?
He needs to go with the other two
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Post by isleworthranger on May 31, 2011 9:28:47 GMT
Paul have you got a email address for Gianni he is on the board email him would help as well? He needs to go with the other two Paul I dont have his e-mail address and not quite sure what point you are trying to make regarding the letter to the OSC? I do agree with you though that it is now perhaps time for him to leave |
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Post by The Scooter on May 31, 2011 9:50:22 GMT
Does anyone else think, as I do, that in the day and age of social media and huge proliferation of message boards and blogging, that supporters clubs (in the format seemingly proposed by QPR) as pressure groups are a complete anachronism?
Is a meeting with the club any more than a box ticking exercise for the club? They KNOW what fan opinion is and the way the wind is blowing and gain and gauge feedback from a number of other sources. Given the personalities involved here, and their other, more pressing business concerns, why the hell would they even consider changing their minds? Would we honestly expect a sit down with Don Flavio or Consigliere Paladini and air grievances or would the club put up the likes of Joe Kyle, Steve Pike and Jenny Elliott who would simply carry the can for the decisions of the owners and walk away with nothing but a flea in their ear for their time and trouble - at a point where, whatever we think of the ownership issues or season ticket increases, they will be personally responsible for ticking every single box in getting the club and the stadium fit for Premier League football.
Other, more eye catching, ways are available.
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Post by Macmoish on May 31, 2011 10:03:31 GMT
Of course it's never fully clear how "representative" are any of the messageboards either. And of course most QPR fans neither belong to fan groups, nor visit (let alone post) on messageboards. But if as is reported, the club "monitors" the messageboards (let alone supposedly "keeps files"), then obviously they do pay heed for whatever reason to fan reactions. And on a slightly broader scarle, certainly the club should not allow itself to be fooled by reading the views of their own defacto club "Apparatchik" (a slight more benign terms than some others that have been used  ) and believe his spin persepctive is actually accepted by most. |
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Post by The Scooter on May 31, 2011 10:05:31 GMT
Of course it's never fully clear how "representative" are any of the messageboards either. And of course most QPR fans neither belong to fan groups, nor visit (let alone post) on messageboards. But if as is reported, the club "monitors" the messageboards (let alone supposedly "keeps files"), then obviously they do pay heed for whatever reason to fan reactions. And on a slightly broader scarle, certainly the club should not allow itself to be fooled by reading the views of their own defacto club "Apparatchik" (a slight more benign terms than some others that have been used ) and believe his spin persepctive is actually accepted by most. They don't  |
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Post by Bushman on May 31, 2011 10:28:24 GMT
Does anyone else think, as I do, that in the day and age of social media and huge proliferation of message boards and blogging, that supporters clubs (in the format seemingly proposed by QPR) as pressure groups are a complete anachronism? Is a meeting with the club any more than a box ticking exercise for the club? They KNOW what fan opinion is and the way the wind is blowing and gain and gauge feedback from a number of other sources. Given the personalities involved here, and their other, more pressing business concerns, why the hell would they even consider changing their minds? Would we honestly expect a sit down with Don Flavio or Consigliere Paladini and air grievances or would the club put up the likes of Joe Kyle, Steve Pike and Jenny Elliott who would simply carry the can for the decisions of the owners and walk away with nothing but a flea in their ear for their time and trouble - at a point where, whatever we think of the ownership issues or season ticket increases, they will be personally responsible for ticking every single box in getting the club and the stadium fit for Premier League football. Other, more eye catching, ways are available. Not much point in a meeting if they did offer them up: Joe Kyle (Marketing Manager), Steve Pike (Operations Manager) and Jenny Elliott (Box Office Manager). |
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Post by The Scooter on May 31, 2011 10:30:50 GMT
Does anyone else think, as I do, that in the day and age of social media and huge proliferation of message boards and blogging, that supporters clubs (in the format seemingly proposed by QPR) as pressure groups are a complete anachronism? Is a meeting with the club any more than a box ticking exercise for the club? They KNOW what fan opinion is and the way the wind is blowing and gain and gauge feedback from a number of other sources. Given the personalities involved here, and their other, more pressing business concerns, why the hell would they even consider changing their minds? Would we honestly expect a sit down with Don Flavio or Consigliere Paladini and air grievances or would the club put up the likes of Joe Kyle, Steve Pike and Jenny Elliott who would simply carry the can for the decisions of the owners and walk away with nothing but a flea in their ear for their time and trouble - at a point where, whatever we think of the ownership issues or season ticket increases, they will be personally responsible for ticking every single box in getting the club and the stadium fit for Premier League football. Other, more eye catching, ways are available. Not much point in a meeting if they did offer them up: Joe Kyle (Marketing Manager), Steve Pike (Operations Manager) and Jenny Elliott (Box Office Manager). Why not? They're effectively the people that run the club on a day to day basis outside of football related matters at Harlington. No Agag, no Saksena, no Bhatia, no Russell. |
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Post by Bushman on May 31, 2011 10:35:46 GMT
Not much point in a meeting if they did offer them up: Joe Kyle (Marketing Manager), Steve Pike (Operations Manager) and Jenny Elliott (Box Office Manager). Why not? They're effectively the people that run the club on a day to day basis outside of football related matters at Harlington. No Agag, no Saksena, no Bhatia, no Russell. And are paid by the people on the board who we would like out, and as you quite rightly say "and walk away with nothing but a flea in their ear for their time and trouble". |
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Post by ingham on May 31, 2011 13:59:04 GMT
Clarence's Sax makes a lot of good points. We underestimate the effect we have as supporters, perhaps because it is sometimes assumed that nothing is actually going on unless someone is organising it.
None of us started supporting the Club on that basis.
We come and go as we please, all of us. What keeps us here and gives us coherence is our own relationship with the Club.
And if we take our cue from the Club - not the Board or Directors or Investors or the various holding companies - it is not difficult to see the power influence of its supporters.
One area in which our influence has been immense is the various attempts to close the Club down. The supporters opposed them. The Club is still here. We're still here. the perpetrators are long gone.
Another is finances. We hear a lot of talk about the wealth of the present investors, but all we see in the accounts is spending - of the Club's money - and consequent losses and ever accumulating debt. Did the investors deal with this at their own expense?
No. They tapped into the supporters' wealth by raising ticket prices - astronomically. And now, they've done it again. That wealth is our power. But because we are not an organisation, it is impossible for vested interests to control.
We are the only people who put money into the Club. Everyone else - players, managers, investors, shareholders - are here to squeeze as much money out of QPR as they can.
Most of all, and most damagingly (for them), the supporters are the barometer of the Club's footballing health. The better the performances, the better pleased we are.
Conversely, the more displeased we are, the more unstable the position of investors, shareholders and directors is. Because of that direct link between quality and talent, success and achievement on the one hand, and satisfaction and approval - from us - on the other.
It is easy to measure their failures, their incompetence, their losses, in the Club's statistics (results on and off the pitch viz the accounts, league tables), so that there is a direct relationship between the quality of the Club's performances and the value - to the Club - AND IN THE FOOTBALL MARKETPLACE - of the people responsible. Unlike the value of their shareholding, the Club's footballing capabilities are not speculative, not mere wishful thinking. The more of the Club's money they lose, or the more matches they lose - usually it is both with occasional upturns - the more tenuous their own connection with the Club becomes, because, among other things, they are systematically destroying their own reputations.
It is important to recognise that we don't need to be organised to bring this about. We just need to be ourselves. To do what we are here to do. Our relationship is not first and foremost with each other, but with the Club. As supporters.
Our solidarity stems from that. And of course we can organise ourselves informally. But that will always be secondary. Our identity, as supporters, is with the Club. That is what 'our Club' means. Not that it belongs to us, in the way the wide boys of the boardroom think of it, but - precisely because it is a Club - that we belong to QPR.
If we were a single organised group, we could be bought, bamboozled, confused, coerced. We would have an easily identifiable focus, which could be attacked, directed or neutralised - or misrepresented.
They cannot do this because we simply don't function that way. Not fundamentally. They may try to subvert a few individuals, or contrive some artificial 'body' of their own, but, as a number of posters have made clear, supporters don't jump to anyone else's tune.
Ultimately, we don't need 'unity' for most purposes. And it would be unhealthy for the Club if only one way of doing things could be canvassed and evaluated.
So we are only really united on fundamentals, but on them, we are immovable.
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Post by klr on May 31, 2011 14:15:08 GMT
Sorry but as soon as I saw the name Scott Jones I closed the link. Wouldn't trust him on anything. Same here, absolute tool, not to mention delusional fantasist & compulsive liar as well as a grass that would do anything for his Italian puppetmaster no matter how morally reprehensible, have I forgotten anything ? We need to rid these filthy parasites from our club once & for all, its impossible for our fanbase to be united whilst this operation is still breathing oxygen & the damage it has done to our club is simply undeniable, get rid of their boss & get rid of his help, scum & yes, they are scum. I know whats best for QPR, 99% of QPR fans know what is best for our club, this lot are just scum. How can I say that fellow QPR fans are scum ? Well how are this lot QPR fans ? you know what I mean ? They need to be flushed out once & for all, Filth! |
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Post by Macmoish on May 31, 2011 14:27:41 GMT
I have to say I don't feel THAT strongly re Scott, even if we're not best buddies. Anyway I think it would be preferrable to/make the request that you to phrase it a little bit more toned down.
I of course have made clear my views about anotehr!
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finney
Dave Mangnall
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Post by finney on May 31, 2011 19:55:45 GMT
Paul have you got a email address for Gianni he is on the board email him would help as well? He needs to go with the other two Paul I don't have his e-mail address and not quite sure what point you are trying to make regarding the letter to the OSC? I do agree with you though that it is now perhaps time for him to leave No point is if people want a meeting with the board then not being funny Gianni is close to people and you could get a message to him without the need to go via any set up of the OSC. We need ASAP a change of directors more than anything if you ask me. |
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Post by Lonegunmen on Jun 1, 2011 3:16:49 GMT
An interesting post over on WATRBS...... www.wearetherangersboys.com/forum/showpost.php?p=617642&postcount=1I have drafted a letter to the Secretary of the Official Supporters Club, which is below. According to the rules of the OSC, if 30 members request an extraordinary meeting, then one will be called. Please PM me your name and membership number as if you are a member or season ticket holder you are automatically a member of the OSC if you support the call for the meeting as set out below.
Please don't stand by, all you need to do is PM me your name and membership number and I will add your name to the letter, which I intend to email tomorrow and also send by recorded delivery post.
If you have friends not on this site who would like to add their name, please ask them to email me at mrkeirframe@hotmail.com and I will add them to the list.
Dear Secretary,
We, the undersigned wish to use our rights as members of the official supporters club under section 3.8 of the Official Supporters Club manadate to call an extraordinary meeting.
The purpose of the meeting would be to discuss the extortionate increase in ticket prices that we feel are unjustified and unfair on the loyal supporters of the club.
We also would like to discuss recent events around the sale of the club and public statements that have been made by shareholders, and are concerned that the Official Supporters Club do not appear to be meeting regularly or meeting with other supporters groups which are also in the Official Supporters Club's mandate as follows:
3.1 The Committee shall meet at such time or times as the Committee shall determine, but at a minimum would aim to meet at least once a month
3.2 It is envisaged to hold regular meetings with Supporters’ Groups, at a minimum on a bi-monthly basis
It is deemed that for the above reasons that a meeting be called as soon as possible, with an appropriate representative from the club in attendance. Please feel free to respond to this letter through the official website or through any of the recognised supporters groups, publicising details of the meeting to all members of the Official Supporters Club who would all have the right to attend.
Yours Sincerely Come on guys let's back this and show the club that their attempts to split the fanbase are failing.... H That's actually quite a good, polite yet informative letter. |
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Post by Macmoish on Jun 1, 2011 8:05:53 GMT
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Post by Macmoish on Jun 1, 2011 13:02:36 GMT
Anyone going down to the club at 4:30 this afternoon? |
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) and believe his spin persepctive is actually accepted by most.
