stocky
Gerry Francis
Posts: 42
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Post by stocky on Aug 28, 2011 9:22:33 GMT
Have to cheat Bushman....I was only 3!
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stocky
Gerry Francis
Posts: 42
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Post by stocky on Aug 27, 2011 19:12:09 GMT
Ken Whitfield next to Peter Angell? Cheating-looking at 60/61 handbook! Possibly Jimmy Golding in front and David Baker at rear....but hard to tell.
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stocky
Gerry Francis
Posts: 42
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Post by stocky on Aug 16, 2011 9:55:21 GMT
Strangely enough - that was something I was going to ask -wasn't sure where? Is that normal these days? Was always packed out in the 60s and 70s...
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stocky
Gerry Francis
Posts: 42
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Post by stocky on Aug 12, 2011 16:36:36 GMT
Hi jayrigg: Difficult to say about image in the 60s...I know from talking to others that several 'stars' of the time-Sean Connery/Tommy Steele etc - used to come to matches-was close to Shepherds Bush studios after all!-but the main atmosphere I remember was just a love for the game and the team-but I was so young I could easily miss anything more than that. It was a team of great characters-which is what stands out with hindsight. But the sixties generally was a time of optimism and believing all was possible-wasn't it? As well as a time when working class ( for want of a better phrase) people were becoming accepted in all sorts of spheres-fashion/music/photography -as well as sport-and all mixed in together. That also gave teams that glamorous appearance- look at all the old newsreels comparing Best to The Beatles. Not sure about today; I do know -when dad went back in the 70s as a director-and I used to go to matches with him-he did say something to me about not being able to smell the grass anymore-after being whisked upstairs in a lift to somewhere up in the gods. I've been trying to follow comments about the board and lack of spending - but really don't know enough to judge what is happening now-long time since I've been to the ground-sorry.Am a long way away in Dorset! Not much help with that one I'm afraid. Additional thought: maybe the fact that I feel I don't know so much answers the question?
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stocky
Gerry Francis
Posts: 42
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Post by stocky on Aug 11, 2011 19:38:19 GMT
Sense of humour? Wry and fine tuned - without any resort to what he referred to as 'blue jokes' - which he hated. Saw men who came out with such stuff as 'little boys'. Very keen observer of life-albeit in a limited sphere as he lived, ate and breathed sport. Loved Morecambe and Wise - if that helps!
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stocky
Gerry Francis
Posts: 42
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Post by stocky on Aug 11, 2011 15:29:02 GMT
Don't mind at all! I should know better.....
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stocky
Gerry Francis
Posts: 42
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Post by stocky on Aug 11, 2011 14:01:46 GMT
Hmm. Have to think about these ones...
bostonr - I can only offer my opinion - based upon what I overheard/gleaned when younger and learnt about dad when he was older(he lived with me the last ten years or so of his life-after mum died) There's no one straightforward answer -rather a complex mix of lots of bits-as all peoples' lives are. I have also been told my character is very like his( was mum's reason for why we clashed so much when I was a stroppy teenager!)and I think that helps me understand him more as I get older- though I certainly don't know it all.
Obviously - he did have a couple of stabs at moving into the higher realms; the 53 days at Arsenal and a short spell at Roma.Although this cannot be taken as gospel-I wasn't even born when he was at Arsenal- from what I have read and heard said-he could not deal with being treated badly - or with no respect .He was a great stickler for good manners-as I learnt early on! To be given a position -as he was at both clubs-and then have people allowed to change his teams or make him feel like the office junior was something he could not deal with - so he went back to the Orient where he was appreciated. I often wondered whether he regretted either of those decisions-I know my mum loved Rome!
He did have other opportunities-Middlesborough in the fifties-and there was a whisper about Man Utd when Busby left-but I have no idea how truthful that is. I am sure there were others I don't know about. However-I do know he was very much a firm family man. He was an only child- his mother died young and his father was a miner in North Somerset-and my mother's family came from the same village. Holidays and weekends were often spent in Somerset-when we were told we were going home we knew that was where was meant-not Epsom where we lived. His father was very important to him-and he wore himself to the bone driving down there to see him after matches on Sundays when grandad was ill. I cannot imagine him moving too far away;transport was not so easy as it is now.
Also - my sister and myself were in a very good (state) school in Epsom. I know when Luton wanted him to move to save himself the drive-he chose not to as I was about to start A Levels. I always felt guilty when he was so tired-used to leave home at 6.00 a.m. to avoid the crush on the North Circular as it was then. But all of that is- I feel-secondary.
Two big things I do know. He loved London football -and always spoke about 'East End boys' being the best players-the ones he loved working with . He was comfortable with the London sense of humour -he had gone to school in Dartford( grandad had moved up to find work during the General Strike-dad got a scholarship to the grammar school) he had worked there after the war-for Nat West(apparently his mother was not happy when he left the bank to go to Yeovil!)-and had made many firm friends. Even when his own team wasn't playing, there was always a reserve game or a training session to go to-he was rarely home during the season- and then there was the cricket-which he loved-in the summer. My mother was happy there-and we had a lovely home.
Finally - I do wonder if he really wanted to go to the top clubs?He was ambitious, certainly -but he was happiest when building and bringing on young talent-he always saw clubs as a large family - and that leads me into the second question. He genuinely cared about the players as people -and their families. He once told me -when I started out in my own career which also involved managing teams of people-that you have to look at the families of the people who work for you - if they are happy-your players are happy.
He also told me that-if a player came in who had troubles at home-the best remedy was to throw a tracksuit at him and send him off on a long run-simplistic,but, I think, true. Both QPR in the 60s and Fulham-the ones I remember best-were happy places to be at-lots of laughter. That came back in loads when he was ill-I still cannot get over the number of ex players -Tony Gale, Les Strong,Rodney..to mention only a few - who helped in his final days and still spoke to him and about him with geniune affection.
He also was a firm believer in the youth system - in scouting local talent who want to play for their local team-and looking after them. Somewhere, I have a lovely photo of John Collins, the Morgans and several others as teenagers-winning a Youth Cup-all very happy. He also built up a strong support team -people such as Jimmy Andrews and Ron Woolnough who he took to several clubs with him-people who he knew he could rely upon. Money didn't seem to be such a big issue-and chairmen were people who were local and loved the club -that all helped create success. Maybe he thought he's lose the things he valued if he went for the bigger clubs?
Hope that helps-feel free to ask more of you want to! If anyone is interested in reading about dad's roots-strongly recommend a chapter in 'Fragments of Idolatory' by David Foot. He was a young reporter in Yeovil at the start of his career-his chapter on dad is brilliant.
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stocky
Gerry Francis
Posts: 42
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Post by stocky on Aug 10, 2011 17:09:11 GMT
Ok...I'll try to answer as best I can!
Being among players - well -it was just normal. Which may seem an odd reply - but I was born when dad was at the Orient -and grew up with life revolving around the fixture list/training/scouting-so was not really aware of any other life. I spent nearly all my time at the club-including Sunday mornings when dad went up to check on injuries etc( think mum was happy to have me out of the way!)We were aware that we were privilileged though - and were never allowed to get above ourselves!
The players did occasionally call in at home - and I remember John Collins and his father coming round to decorate -think he was a builder/decorator by trade. We certainly went to one of the Morgan twins' wedding-but I was only 12 when dad left QPR. Fulham had a great social life - my sister had her wedding reception at the ground with Alan Mullery doing the 'father of the bride' speech instead of dad ( I have no idea why!)
I was already living in Bournemouth when dad came down-and I had a few nights out clubbing with some of the players. John Hartburn was a firm friend -he ended up living near us in Dorset so he and dad were often out ' for lunch' in their elder days. Ted Drake and his wife were also very close to my parents.Dave Webb often dropped in when mum was still alive - had a thing about her cakes I remember! Also many others-far too many to list!
Some still remain firm family friends-and it was amazing how many helped when dad was ill. From various clubs-ranging from Yeovil through to Bournemouth. What was always a strong feature was the genuine affection felt for him - Derek Healey holding a golf day comes to mind as well and I know Mark Lazarus was very upset at dad's funeral. John Smith(ex secretary) called in to see me two weeks ago to go through some of the memorabilia I have-again, lots of strong memories.
The main point is - I feel very lucky to have grown up in such a world; it had its disadvantages-sometimes no dad at Christmas-often not with us on family holidays-but we gained an awful lot as well. I only have hazy memories of the League Cup Final -but nothing beats seeing dad lead the team out of the Wembley tunnel-so proud of him.
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stocky
Gerry Francis
Posts: 42
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Post by stocky on Aug 9, 2011 19:09:28 GMT
Quite happy to answer any questions-although do remember I was only 12 when Gregory sacked dad ( and he did-no matter what anyone else may say!)As well as being a great manager-he was a wonderful father -although I may not have said so at the time as I have been reliably informed I have the same temperment-stubborn and always right! Not a good combination when I was 17! Miss him -and mum-dreadfully but am incredibly proud of him, as are the whole family. Thought of him a lot today when the riots were being discussed - he was born into real poverty - but would not understand the mind set of some people today. But I am digressing- another family trait.....
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stocky
Gerry Francis
Posts: 42
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Post by stocky on Aug 8, 2011 16:23:53 GMT
Sorry folks-did delete as had second thoughts-the thread was really about Rodney, not Dad. However- thanks for all the lovely comments.
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stocky
Gerry Francis
Posts: 42
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Post by stocky on Mar 6, 2010 21:37:08 GMT
Glad this has finally happened; wish we'd have known-would have made sure representatives from the Stock family were there.
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