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Post by londonranger on Dec 16, 2019 15:20:08 GMT
Spurs new manager Mourinho has made them look like a formidable team as he gets up close to team gives signals, team the n responds with a great defense and strong play by attackers. They won a very difficult game v a hearty Wolves, away with an injury overtime goal. They have also been playing very well since Potchatino was let go with his laid back style. Delli Alli looks like a different player and Harry Kane works his socks off, They had two shots of the side posts that didn't go in. Well Im not suggesting we change managers. Warburton seems a little bland, but then, where does this team want to finish>
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Post by bowranger on Dec 16, 2019 20:06:12 GMT
Changing a manager, like anything, depends on the context. Pochettino was at Spurs for five years and crafted a team that pretty much reached its apex by reaching a CL final. Then, with largely the same core of players, they got worse and what he was doing stopped working.
They've got a massive new stadium to pay for and can't afford to turn into a midtable side. I thought far from being laidback, it was Poch's intensity of training and his methods that was said to not be motivating enough anymore. Which after five years, with that level of player, without a big trophy to show for it, with bigger clubs sniffing about their best players, eventually tails off. They got stale, the change makes sense.
I dunno exactly what the club wants from us, but we have a fairly good inkling from fans' stated expectations and from what Hoos, Ferdinand and Warburton have said. Which from what I can tell is comfortable survival at this level, a clear pathway to the first team for youth players and a systemic switch that sees us keeping our heads financially above water by polishing up players to sell for a profit and playing the loan market.
As a team, it seems to be about crafting a new sense of identity and trying to improve year on year.
With Spurs and QPR, it is about as chalk n cheese as you can get. A successful club with a stale team versus a relatively struggling club with a very recent gigantic change in squad personnel. A manager leaving after five years who instilled a core identity, compared to one that joined half a season ago, taking over from a manager in McLaren who had little sense of team identity and a losing mentality. A team that is expected to keep at the very highest levels of a division that is underperforming, versus an inconsistent team tipped by many pundits for relegation, who are currently comfortably in midtable.
Mourinho improves Spurs, Woodgate doesn't improve Boro, Bielsa improves Leeds, god knows about O'Neill at Stoke. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Least if we are comparing just to ourselves, though, we have plenty of evidence to draw on about changes around this time of year. And it ain't good reading.
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Post by londonranger on Dec 16, 2019 20:30:05 GMT
Thanks so much Bow. Erudite and very informative, Happy holiday season.
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Post by harr on Dec 16, 2019 20:45:42 GMT
Certainly improved Spurs when they were very stale. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t, you never quite know. Who would have thought Rowett a Manager we tried to get on two occasions after being so poor recently in a couple of jobs has gone into a Millwall team that was stuttering badly under Harris has practically won every game there.
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Post by bowranger on Dec 16, 2019 21:36:33 GMT
Thanks so much Bow. Erudite and very informative, Happy holiday season. Far too kind, thank you. Happy holidays to you and yours too.
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Post by kenthoop on Dec 17, 2019 9:45:04 GMT
what about stand in Manager at Everton Duncan Ferguson they are now playing with an intensity that was never seen before under Silva had two greatbresukts against Chelsea & United , the first game against Chelsea was incredible the noise in the stadium and the intensity they played with was something I have never seen or heard for years well done big Dunc
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Post by blatantfowl on Dec 17, 2019 12:56:59 GMT
I only need to think of the change from Holloway to MaClaren to know it sometimes does not work.
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Post by Ashdown_Ranger on Dec 17, 2019 16:38:58 GMT
Well we've certainly had more of our fair share of the 'Dead Cat Bounce' effect with most of our new managers since Briatore's day...
I can only think of Luigi De Canio as being 'successful' in terms of results and fan approval - until 'Crashgate', Flabbio's subsequent removal from club-related matters, and Amit bringing in Warnock.
Since Warnock, I've not rated any of our managers - I liked Chris Ramsey and Ollie and thought both should have been given more time - but I wasn't massively disappointed when they were moved on.
Warburton seems the manager most suited to QPR for yonks. Not perfect, but has got us playing some good, attractive football, in between some shocking defensive displays - maybe that will be addressed in the January or next summer.
As for Ferguson at Everton, I think he needs to quit while he's ahead. Yes, got a cracking win and a respectable draw. But I wonder how long that kind of intensity and wave of enthusiasm will last - not sure it's enough to carry a side forward more than a few weeks.
And his substitution of a substitute - and then pointedly ignoring him as he came off - was crass, thoughtless and destructive.
Anyway, back to Warburton - I hope we can see him stay and build something decent at QPR for the next 2 or 3 years.
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Post by bowranger on Dec 18, 2019 13:22:45 GMT
Yeah I broadly agree with a lot of that.
I think the difficult thing during Ollie's second spell was the big emotional component, both for us and him. Don't need to describe them as we all lived them, but think it's fair to say that it made the highs higher and the lows lower.
Warburton is refreshing because so much of it comes without baggage and a lot of the ambiguity is gone. When it works and when it doesn't, you at least feel like there is an identity here and a reasoning behind why we do what we do. There's a sense that we know what we are trying to build and that there is a process and a bigger picture. Based on what we've seen so far, letting it play out feels a lot more valuable than stopping it, which is progress in itself for us.
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Post by rickyqpr on Dec 18, 2019 15:00:01 GMT
My instinct is usually to stick with the manager. I supported McLaren for far too long. Partly because the options for change are often less attractive that struggling on. New manager usually means - new strategy - new players - new expenditure -new losses on sales - new risk. Against that, there comes a point whereby it is clear (for what ever reason) that the existing manager is not going to be able to change things. It is only going to get worse. By the end of McClaren's reign, even the club had decided that without any lined up successor, we were better off with 'an empty seat'and just relied on the existing coaching staff. But I think the start point has to be - What is the expectation of the manager? In our case, to completely overhaul the squad, build for the future and avoid relegation was the most anyone hoped for 7 months ago. In the Prem it seems that every manager is expected to have a shot at Europe. Survival is not good enough. However, once a team is in serious trouble, the new manager is challenged to avoid relegation. The subsequent season that is not good enough. Some clubs seem to get the bounce (Barnsley unfortunately) and others do not. We fall into the 'do not' category. Our distressed appointments have rarely worked for us. That is partly because we are shopping in the managerial bargain basement and offering very little by way of funding. Even a brilliant manager will struggle if the resources are inadequate, or if the spirit or club ethos is completely wrecked. But I believe that we appointed someone this time who understood and accepted the situation and the strategic plan. Based on the criteria he was set, he is still going ok. I think the true acid test would be 'How would we feel if Warburton was poached by a bigger club? How would we feel about the genuine options out there? I for one would be pretty hacked off and would not expect any new manager bounce to come our way from the enforced change.
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