NO1QPRNZ
Dave Sexton
"Remember sometimes you have to go backwards to go forwards"UuuRrrSsssss.
Posts: 1,785
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Post by NO1QPRNZ on Nov 28, 2019 8:36:04 GMT
I may be old Fashioned but why don’t we play a Sweeper at the Back? Any thoughts.
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Post by bowranger on Nov 28, 2019 9:12:20 GMT
I'm not sure we'd have the personnel to play it, Hall at a push?
It's a weird one in general as I feel like some of it is the system no matter how well we play, some is how our lot adapt to it, and some of it is just straight up basics.
Attacker dragging our CBs into deep water between the full back and CB position is down to the system, because being brave and creating chances with full backs pushed high (you'll rarely see Kane or Manning in our own half once we start moving forward) leaves gaps. That's a trade off thing. You'll get elements of that no matter how we play and on balance is probably worth it to me.
The gifted goals from mistakes from playing it out from the back is down to how we adapt and learn. The second goal at Fulham was almost purely that with players not offering enough as an out ball and Lumley panicking and making the wrong decision. Those decisions create risk and the hope is those will decrease over time.
The last one is still the biggest bit for me. Some mitigation if it's a zonal issue (but like Ricky said in the Forest thread, it's hard to tell), but stuff like getting tight on an opposition's solitary forward to stop free headers, spilling shots into the path of a striker, letting a winger have the time and space to pick their cross. That stuff is poor regardless of how we are set up to play. Four at the back, sweeper, five in line, three and wing backs - that stuff is the basics.
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Post by surreychad on Nov 28, 2019 9:24:36 GMT
Personally I would go back 3 Barbet, Leinster, Kane. Win backs of Angel and Manning with Hall sat in front of them. Amos and Cameron in mid, Exe out wide left, Osay Samual out right and a single striker.
We would be far more defensive and could swap any of the midfielders to make it more attacking when needs be. We need a couple of nil nil draws to get confidence going and then build on the attaching side from there. Our confidence is shot.
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Post by harr on Nov 28, 2019 10:41:42 GMT
Personally I would go back 3 Barbet, Leinster, Kane. Win backs of Angel and Manning with Hall sat in front of them. Amos and Cameron in mid, Exe out wide left, Osay Samual out right and a single striker. We would be far more defensive and could swap any of the midfielders to make it more attacking when needs be. We need a couple of nil nil draws to get confidence going and then build on the attaching side from there. Our confidence is shot. What is this thing you call nil nil
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Post by surreychad on Nov 28, 2019 11:15:13 GMT
Sir David Attenborough once did a documentary on it, last seen at Loftus road sometime in the 1970s and now a vary rare beast.
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Post by rickyqpr on Nov 28, 2019 11:33:46 GMT
Watched the goals back this morning. Goal one - Kane at fault clearly his error. It was his man who jumped behind him and got far more height. So much so that watching live he looked unmarked. Goal Two - Kane and Leinster culpable. Kane outran by Sammy Ameobi! Leinster not tracking back with Grabban who will not score an easier goal this season. Goal Three - Manning out of position, Scowen nutmegged, Leinster too late to cut out the shot. Good goal though - if you are a Forest supporter. Goal Four - Pretty awful as the shot from Cash was from a fair way out. Lumley spilled it and there were 2 Forest players to pick it up with no QPR defender nearby. A simple pass and a tap in to the empty net. Looked pretty poor by Lumley live - looked just as bad on TV. Thought Wallace looked a red card on the night - albeit a tad harsh. Watching the TV, it was not a red card iMHO. Hardly touched Lolley and Hall was there anyway. Wonder if we will appeal. But if you look at that lot above: Keeper costing us goals and low on confidence Kane - been very good going forward, but at fault for 2 goals Leinster - culpable for probably 2 goals Wallace - His sending off may have been harsh, but he was easily turned by Lolley Hall - probably the pick of our defenders, but nothing great Manning - poor game - he is pushed so far forward that there is a huge gap behind him. Cash went in late on him (yellow) soon after our red card and claimed he never touched him. So. a lot of individual errors are costing us dear. Quest thought that the score was harsh on QPR. Warburton's assessment after the game was fair - as ever. He must be getting worried. Th most worrying thing about it all is that we seem to be getting worse not better.
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Post by rangersman on Nov 28, 2019 18:02:13 GMT
Lumley, Barbet, Scowen, Leistner, should not play another game period. Defence you say !!!!!!! there is no defence its laughable. As for Warburton i knew when he took charge this was going to happen, he is not what we need. This will get worse, be prepared for the usual relegation run in.
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Post by harr on Nov 28, 2019 18:44:54 GMT
As is normal when we hit a bad run - and it could well be 6 or 7 defeats in a row - the issue becomes one of confidence and the more we lack confidence the worse things become. The lack of confidence is now showing in the team - and also on this board. The question then is how to turn that around. We are playing quite a few young, and by Championship standards, inexperienced players and they are likely to suffer most in this situation. I think we now look light weight against the stronger more experienced teams even though we still show plenty of ability going forward. On the other hand we have some experienced although maybe less skilful players who are not featuring much. Maybe it is time to get some more experience on the pitch for a few games. Wells and Hugill are both in and out according to formation - we have Pugh who hardly gets a run, Cameron in and out although suspension and injury does not help, Wallace although a straight red card does not help.Plus I believe we are missing Barbet at the back - the Hall Leistner combination is not my first choice. Lumleys brain must be scrambled after the last few games so Kelly back in asap is important. Basically get a settled team for half a dozen games with a bit more experience, give a couple of younger players a break before their confidence is smashed and try to squeeze out a couple of clean sheets and get the points ticking over again. Early season when things started well many on here and Warburton said that we will hit patches when the things go wrong. Now is the first of those and time to tweak things a little to get out of it but as someone once said 'Don't panic' I am a little concerned that lots of Forest fans liked Warburton and still do but would say he had no plan B game? Its almost like we looked great for 2-3 months, ( well above expectations) now other Managers are working us out with ease and we don’t have an answer for it. Although we continue to have good periods of possession in games, all of a sudden the chances we were getting we are not converting now. Added to this our defence is as fragile as a snowflake, so we know we are never going to keep a clean sheet. We are at the don’t panic stage agreed but as we know, six games with 2 points and heaps of goals conceded, if this continues over the Derby, Preston and Birmingham games without a win.... a nine game winless run these days in any Division can see the best of Managers replaced. Who would have thought 6 games ago we could go from 4th to 16th, funny old game.
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Post by rickyqpr on Nov 28, 2019 18:56:06 GMT
I know that we are on a poor run and that confidence is a fragile commodity, but I truly hope that even if we go 9 games without a win that we stick with Warburton. There is not another manager out there who I would want to see take over - and that includes Warnock. I think Warnock being available will increase the pressure on Warburton from a section of our support, but we cannot afford to scrap the plan and the current progress to start all over again. In context, we were in front against an expensively assemble Fulham team and we were holding on at one down for 80 odd minutes against Forest. It was a bad 20 minutes, but we move on and go again. Keep the faith guys.
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NO1QPRNZ
Dave Sexton
"Remember sometimes you have to go backwards to go forwards"UuuRrrSsssss.
Posts: 1,785
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Post by NO1QPRNZ on Nov 28, 2019 20:34:57 GMT
We have been found out since the WBA Game when WBA found our gaps.need a change.
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Post by blatantfowl on Nov 30, 2019 17:48:56 GMT
The lack of a plan B is Warburton’s career long weakness.
Playing out from the back is plan A no matter formation and it only requires opposition to push high up and not allow time on the ball and we are struggling.
Mark is a clever guy, he knows this. It’s up to him to keep faith with his system, which is what he has always done, or do something different.
Sticking to a system is great except for 3 variables, how well our players execute it, opposition tactics to nullify it and how well opposition players execute their plan.
If only it were that simple!
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