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Post by rickyqpr on Mar 22, 2019 13:13:23 GMT
www.westlondonsport.com/qpr/qpr-financial-situation-220319Interesting article - and as it is Dave McIntyre / West London Sport, it has probably come from the club. I did not realise that we have one year options on Bidwell, Cousins, Lynch and Pavel. It is just a question as to whether or not we can afford to do so. It reads as if Bidwell is the most likely to be offered the extension - the other 3 though pretty unlikely. No mention of Hall though. Hope he gets an offer. Massey rumour also given context.
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Post by rickyqpr on Mar 22, 2019 13:53:48 GMT
The article seems to suggest that we will be making large losses on the 4 out of contract players. We certainly lost money on Washington when terminating by mutual agreement before the term ended. That should already be in the forecast for this season now though. But my understanding is that any player purchase fee is amortized over the duration of the contract. So in the case of Washington, the hit would be the truncated contract term. In the case of the 4 featured in the article, I would think that the club would not be able to spread the cost over an option period, so in all 4 cases, their fees would be fully amortized at the end of this season. But that would also mean that on a 'year on year' comparison, all 4 would cost less in the accounts next season than this season. So It will purely be a case of do we want them and can we afford their wages - the article states that some players are overpaid at the moment. Of course, if the purchase price has been amortized over the option year as well (which I doubt) then should we release them without taking the option, then we would have to take the hit of that additional's year write off in this year's accounts. That would again argue to keep them for a final option year instead. But, I think that the article has come from the club and the messages we are supposed to take from it are: 1) The club is responding to fan base speculation and uncertainty. 2) We are still under FFP pressures and next year will be tougher than anything before 3) Our expectancy should be Rotherham, Millwall & Burton level of expenditure. 4) We cannot afford to keep all, if any, of our out of contract players and we are identifying cheaper alternatives 5) The purchases made in the JFH era were expensive and been of limited success. 6) Most encouraging though, we are probably one year (maybe even 2) ahead of the FFP curve and others are facing the challenges that we are now on top of. We need to survive next year to push on, but we are all going to have to take the medicine in the meantime.
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Post by Roller on Mar 23, 2019 10:28:49 GMT
There is a lot of common in that article, but it doesn’t give the full picture in my opinion which I’ll come to in a moment. Firstly though, you are absolutely correct about the financial hit regarding the soon to be out of contract players Ricky, i.e. there isn’t one. I can only assume that David Mc is simply comparing what we paid for them against what we will receive for them. I got Lee Hoos to clarify this a couple of years ago in one of those QPR Business videos he does. www.qpr.co.uk/videos/interviews/hoos-october-part-two/What David Mc steers well clear of, with just a cursory mention that the club are “bullish about their ability to comply with FFP”, is how FFP will affect our budget next season. I think we understand the rolling three-year nature of the beast, but next season issue gets brought into sharp focus when you put numbers into it. 2015/16 loss £11 million 2016/17 loss £6.5 million 2017/18 loss £17.5 million Therefore, the three-year loss was £35 million which sits comfortably within the £39 million allowable loss. I expect us to lose around £14 million this season (I have reasoning and workings for that, but it would make this post too long and hard work to read). Rolling on a year we have 2016/17 loss £6.5 million 2017/18 loss £17.5 million 2018/19 loss £14 million The three-year loss would now be £38 million, very close to the limit. However, for next season, we have the smallest of our recorded losses since the inception of FFP, £6.5 million, rolling out of the equation and so not only do we have to cope with the loss of our parachute payments, but we have to reduce our loss from £14 million to under £6.5 million. There is one other very important part of this equation which I’ve not allowed for in those numbers which is the disallowable costs. These cover items such as investment in the club’s academy and youth development, expenditure on the women’s football team and donations to the QPR in the Community Trust. By my estimation (and I have far less to back this up), this could be in the region of £1 million per season which would therefore reduce the loss for FFP purposes by that amount meaning that for this season the club’s headroom beneath the FFP ceiling would be £4 million. That would still leave us to have to cope with a drop of income of around £12 million, a need to reduce our loss by £7.5 million, but with a buffer of £4 million. I’m glad the club are bullish about achieving that. I don’t expect any of the loanees (Wells, Hemed and Cameron) to remain at the club, not to see any of the senior players whose contracts are expiring next season (Bidwell, Lynch, Wszolek, Cousins, Rangel and Baptiste), with the possible exception of Grant Hall who may accept a lower offer if no other club is prepared to gamble on his fitness. I’m aware of two other players whose contracts are expiring this summer - Shodipo may be offered an extension, but I doubt that Charlie Owens will.
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Post by harr on Mar 23, 2019 13:13:54 GMT
What makes expect all of that lot to go? Bidwell, Lynch, Wszolek, Cousins, Rangel , Baptiste, Hall I would not be surprised if 2-3 stayed. From my point of view, I certainlywould like Bidwell and Wszelok to stay, Hall maybe if he proves himself again. We could sell a couple of our big hitters to make the shortfall. For example one or two of Eze, Luongo ,Freeman.
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Post by Roller on Mar 23, 2019 15:00:24 GMT
What makes expect all of that lot to go? Bidwell, Lynch, Wszolek, Cousins, Rangel , Baptiste, Hall I would not be surprised if 2-3 stayed. From my point of view, I certainlywould like Bidwell and Wszelok to stay, Hall maybe if he proves himself again. We could sell a couple of our big hitters to make the shortfall. For example one or two of Eze, Luongo ,Freeman. Our income is reduced by £12 million and we have to make a smaller loss than this season. For argument's sake, let's work towards saving £15 million. How much do you think any of those players earn? An average of £10k a week? That would be £520,000 a year. 6 of those would be about £3 million saved, about a 5th of what we need. I doubt this is the case, but let's assume that we are paying Wells, Hemed and Cameron £20k per week each, that would be another £3 million saved. We've still got another £9 million to find which is perhaps what we'll get for Freeman and Luongo if there are clubs that want to buy them this summer. That won't be the end of it as we will need to find some money to pay the wages of any players we wish to sign this summer. I can't see how we can afford to keep any of them.
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Post by rickyqpr on Mar 27, 2019 20:58:06 GMT
What makes expect all of that lot to go? Bidwell, Lynch, Wszolek, Cousins, Rangel , Baptiste, Hall I would not be surprised if 2-3 stayed. From my point of view, I certainlywould like Bidwell and Wszelok to stay, Hall maybe if he proves himself again. We could sell a couple of our big hitters to make the shortfall. For example one or two of Eze, Luongo ,Freeman. Our income is reduced by £12 million and we have to make a smaller loss than this season. For argument's sake, let's work towards saving £15 million. How much do you think any of those players earn? An average of £10k a week? That would be £520,000 a year. 6 of those would be about £3 million saved, about a 5th of what we need. I doubt this is the case, but let's assume that we are paying Wells, Hemed and Cameron £20k per week each, that would be another £3 million saved. We've still got another £9 million to find which is perhaps what we'll get for Freeman and Luongo if there are clubs that want to buy them this summer. That won't be the end of it as we will need to find some money to pay the wages of any players we wish to sign this summer. I can't see how we can afford to keep any of them. The only slight thing in our favour is that the financial accounts are quite a blunt instrument. By that I mean that it is hard to predict future accounts on the basis of the financial statements, instead you need the management accounts. We have been on a substantial cost cutting trend and we do not know how the second half of the year compared to the first half of the 2017/18 season. But it is 'possible that if we were to project from the second half, rather than from the full 12 months figures then we may get a different (better) answer. Just being positive, but I do think that we are at long last exercising proper fiscal control and I hope that the McIntyre statement was based on information received from QPR and that in turn that was based on proper cash forecasting. But I may just be delusional.....
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Post by Roller on Apr 3, 2019 6:30:52 GMT
What makes expect all of that lot to go? Bidwell, Lynch, Wszolek, Cousins, Rangel , Baptiste, Hall I would not be surprised if 2-3 stayed. From my point of view, I certainlywould like Bidwell and Wszelok to stay, Hall maybe if he proves himself again. We could sell a couple of our big hitters to make the shortfall. For example one or two of Eze, Luongo ,Freeman. Harr, I've revised my estimate of the disallowable costs upwards, so I think we are a little better off than I did before. I'll let you keep two of these players
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Post by harr on Apr 3, 2019 9:21:01 GMT
What makes expect all of that lot to go? Bidwell, Lynch, Wszolek, Cousins, Rangel , Baptiste, Hall I would not be surprised if 2-3 stayed. From my point of view, I certainlywould like Bidwell and Wszelok to stay, Hall maybe if he proves himself again. We could sell a couple of our big hitters to make the shortfall. For example one or two of Eze, Luongo ,Freeman. Harr, I've revised my estimate of the disallowable costs upwards, so I think we are a little better off than I did before. I'll let you keep two of these players Haha, Roller after the last 2-3 performances I’m not sure I want any now We will have to pay SM off now, on top of that we are still paying IH.
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Post by Roller on Apr 3, 2019 22:06:45 GMT
Harr, I've revised my estimate of the disallowable costs upwards, so I think we are a little better off than I did before. I'll let you keep two of these players Haha, Roller after the last 2-3 performances I’m not sure I want any now We will have to pay SM off now, on top of that we are still paying IH. Even if Ollie somehow didn't have our standard 1 year severance clause in his contract, his payments will be ending soon as his contract was until this summer and, according to The Times, we had a break clause in McClaren's contract this summer so he won't be getting paid for much longer.
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Post by blatantfowl on Apr 4, 2019 5:05:22 GMT
Haha, Roller after the last 2-3 performances I’m not sure I want any now We will have to pay SM off now, on top of that we are still paying IH. Even if Ollie somehow didn't have our standard 1 year severance clause in his contract, his payments will be ending soon as his contract was until this summer and, according to The Times, we had a break clause in McClaren's contract this summer so he won't be getting paid for much longer. Holloway still got paid for a year to do nothing which isn’t part of any prudent business plan I recognize. I am pleased we don’t have to compensate Steve although quite surprised he accepted what is in reality a 1 year contract with an option for the 2nd year. I am dubious that we can release him by only paying him the next month especially when he knew his predecessor had 2 years.
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Post by harr on Apr 4, 2019 7:19:54 GMT
The break clause in SM contract is the best news I have heard all week. All we need is the 3 points at Norwich now.
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Post by bowranger on Apr 4, 2019 11:47:22 GMT
Even if Ollie somehow didn't have our standard 1 year severance clause in his contract, his payments will be ending soon as his contract was until this summer and, according to The Times, we had a break clause in McClaren's contract this summer so he won't be getting paid for much longer. Holloway still got paid for a year to do nothing which isn’t part of any prudent business plan I recognize.I am pleased we don’t have to compensate Steve although quite surprised he accepted what is in reality a 1 year contract with an option for the 2nd year. I am dubious that we can release him by only paying him the next month especially when he knew his predecessor had 2 years. Totally agree - though that seems to be a football norm as much as a QPR one, sadly.
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Post by Roller on Apr 7, 2019 8:33:01 GMT
Personally I think that this is nonsense, but it is out there
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Post by rickyqpr on Apr 7, 2019 9:09:38 GMT
Personally I think that this is nonsense, but it is out there Crazy........I really hope it is incorrect. See my other thread re. Ipswich Town - but if this is true it makes the panic and change of strategy even more tragic than I thought.
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Post by terryb on Apr 7, 2019 12:22:06 GMT
I would be shocked if this is true.
However, why should I be shocked? It would be in keeping with all the other policy decisions implemented since the arrival of Tune Group as our owners!
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Post by Marc on Apr 7, 2019 12:40:38 GMT
I'm wondering if those are their Premier League wages, it's not a given that we are paying 100% of bthem but that wouldn't be as newsworthy.
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Post by marshbowles10 on Apr 7, 2019 13:36:33 GMT
Alas the is a huge disconnect between the money earned by footballers and us mere mortals.
I bet that if you were in the pub and were discussing what you earned doing your job then the last thing you'd do is say what you earned a week.
I don't know why football seems the only profession that speaks this way. IF Wells is on £45k per week then in my terminology this is £2.34 million per year.
Assume the average cost of a ticket at Loftus Road is £30 and the average gate is 12,500.......his salary costs relate to 6.25 games of turnstile revenue.
This is complete and utter madness.
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Post by rickyqpr on Apr 7, 2019 14:36:24 GMT
It is very hard to believe that we are paying £73k per week for Wells & Hamed. We were chasing for the pair for some time and we were in a competitive situation for their signatures, but it would counteract all the good houskeeping of late to do pay that. I would think that all 4 signings are our top earners though. Those wages are not inconsistent with the Prem, but it was reported that Ned was on £40k as our highest earner. Perhaps we are paying half. Otherwise, how can we be anywhere near our FFP goals? But with so many out of contract players (including the 4) I suppose it is no wonder that the form has dipped. Normally at this stage of the season, clubs start to blood the youth. Maybe it was for FFP reasons, but our youth has been shipped out for game experience elsewhwere. It is hard to point to the bulk of the out of contracts as not trying, but Hamed and Lynch last week did not put in a shift. We are not offering contracts until the end of the season - especially as we do not know which division we will be in. But the out of contract players will be trying to avoid injury (bad luck therw Bidwell) and also mindful that next season at QPR will mean less money at best. But we are stumped as we have no one to replace them. Furlong and Lynch starting as our centre backs yesterday with dire consequences. Meanwhile, wonder what is going on with Leistner?
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Post by bowranger on Apr 7, 2019 16:19:49 GMT
It is very hard to believe that we are paying £73k per week for Wells & Hamed. We were chasing for the pair for some time and we were in a competitive situation for their signatures, but it would counteract all the good houskeeping of late to do pay that. I would think that all 4 signings are our top earners though. Those wages are not inconsistent with the Prem, but it was reported that Ned was on £40k as our highest earner. Perhaps we are paying half. Otherwise, how can we be anywhere near our FFP goals? But with so many out of contract players (including the 4) I suppose it is no wonder that the form has dipped. Normally at this stage of the season, clubs start to blood the youth. Maybe it was for FFP reasons, but our youth has been shipped out for game experience elsewhwere. It is hard to point to the bulk of the out of contracts as not trying, but Hamed and Lynch last week did not put in a shift. We are not offering contracts until the end of the season - especially as we do not know which division we will be in. But the out of contract players will be trying to avoid injury (bad luck therw Bidwell) and also mindful that next season at QPR will mean less money at best. But we are stumped as we have no one to replace them. Furlong and Lynch starting as our centre backs yesterday with dire consequences. Meanwhile, wonder what is going on with Leistner? I dunno if there's necessarily something going on with Leistner, there could be - part of me thought yesterday it might have been Eustace trying to be clever. Pukki is a combo of tough but deceptively mobile. With Norwich having such a quick attacking midfield and Pukki playing off the shoulder of the CBs, maybe the 'logic' was Furlong would be a good tough and mobile match to what Norwich offered, compared to Leistner? God knows.
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Post by blatantfowl on Apr 7, 2019 22:29:15 GMT
I don’t think it’s hard to believe. Not after the excesses of the current owners. Those wages are not high in premiership terms and their parent clubs had the upper hand. Sure, parent clubs sometimes except 50% contribution (they do on FM19 Mobile anyway!) but they were happy to play a little brinksmanship knowing our need was greater than theirs. Given our track record as a mismanaged pushover I find it quite plausible that we blinked and coughed up the dough.
It is said the Steve had planned the loans preseason but they didn’t arrive until we had suffered 4 loses. Why wait if they had planned them anyway? At that point the panic was already setting in and having backed an ambitious manager the club HAD to fund it while we still could. Steve walked once before when at Forest over a similar scenario so it was possible he would do it again.
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Post by harr on Apr 7, 2019 23:09:52 GMT
It is very hard to believe that we are paying £73k per week for Wells & Hamed. We were chasing for the pair for some time and we were in a competitive situation for their signatures, but it would counteract all the good houskeeping of late to do pay that. I would think that all 4 signings are our top earners though. Those wages are not inconsistent with the Prem, but it was reported that Ned was on £40k as our highest earner. Perhaps we are paying half. Otherwise, how can we be anywhere near our FFP goals? But with so many out of contract players (including the 4) I suppose it is no wonder that the form has dipped. Normally at this stage of the season, clubs start to blood the youth. Maybe it was for FFP reasons, but our youth has been shipped out for game experience elsewhwere. It is hard to point to the bulk of the out of contracts as not trying, but Hamed and Lynch last week did not put in a shift. We are not offering contracts until the end of the season - especially as we do not know which division we will be in. But the out of contract players will be trying to avoid injury (bad luck therw Bidwell) and also mindful that next season at QPR will mean less money at best. But we are stumped as we have no one to replace them. Furlong and Lynch starting as our centre backs yesterday with dire consequences. Meanwhile, wonder what is going on with Leistner? I dunno if there's necessarily something going on with Leistner, there could be - part of me thought yesterday it might have been Eustace trying to be clever. Pukki is a combo of tough but deceptively mobile. With Norwich having such a quick attacking midfield and Pukki playing off the shoulder of the CBs, maybe the 'logic' was Furlong would be a good tough and mobile match to what Norwich offered, compared to Leistner? God knows. I think Leistner is fine, he replied back to a fan today, said he and the team will be up for putting in a performance Weds night to try and get a win but I guess we have heard that a few times recently, probably fifteen times 😉
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Post by harr on Apr 7, 2019 23:12:10 GMT
I would be amazed if we paid more than 25-30 k a week these days but footballs gone crazy so anything’s possible I guess. I did read somewhere a QPR reporter saying they were way off the mark, don’t think it was Dave Mc.
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