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Post by harr on May 21, 2015 21:03:30 GMT
Is Paul Clement going to be Derby boss ?
Where will McClaren go then ?
Did we miss a trick with Clement, would he have come but we werent even interested in interviewing ?
Could say a bit short sighted.
How many others might emerge?
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Post by RoryTheRanger on May 21, 2015 21:27:37 GMT
McClaren will go to Newcastle most likely, who knows maybe even West Ham
Personally after the last two seasons with Derby I view him as a bit of a bottle job.
Also Clement stands just as much a chance of flopping as Ramsey does, in fact Ramsey at the moment is ahead of him in that he actually has some small amount of experience as a first team coach, and that was in the Prem too. Clement has no experience whatsoever
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paulmason
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Post by paulmason on May 22, 2015 5:10:31 GMT
oa Is Paul Clement going to be Derby boss ? Where will McClaren go then ? Did we miss a trick with Clement, would he have come but we werent even interested in interviewing ? Could say a bit short sighted. How many others might emerge? What decent Manager would work under Les Ferdinand, an inexperienced director of football. Also, what new manager would pin their hopes of success on him as well. We have got the level of coach we will attract, why Les is at W12, so I would not worry about the coulda, shoulda, woulda.
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Post by RoryTheRanger on May 22, 2015 10:49:39 GMT
oa Is Paul Clement going to be Derby boss ? Where will McClaren go then ? Did we miss a trick with Clement, would he have come but we werent even interested in interviewing ? Could say a bit short sighted. How many others might emerge? What decent Manager would work under Les Ferdinand, an inexperienced director of football. Also, what new manager would pin their hopes of success on him as well. We have got the level of coach we will attract, why Les is at W12, so I would not worry about the coulda, shoulda, woulda. Managers tend not to work under DOF's anyway so point moot. Plus what on earth makes Clement a "decent" manager, or head coach as he would most likely be at any club? Ramsey is at the moment ahead of Clement in terms of development as a head coach
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Post by timewaster on May 22, 2015 12:19:04 GMT
We may of had a chance of getting McClaren back if we had waited
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Post by RoryTheRanger on May 22, 2015 12:21:24 GMT
We may of had a chance of getting McClaren back if we had waited We could still have him in the only role I would ever want him in, an assistant coach
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paulmason
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Post by paulmason on May 22, 2015 12:49:28 GMT
oaWhat decent Manager would work under Les Ferdinand, an inexperienced director of football. Also, what new manager would pin their hopes of success on him as well. We have got the level of coach we will attract, why Les is at W12, so I would not worry about the coulda, shoulda, woulda. Managers tend not to work under DOF's anyway so point moot. Plus what on earth makes Clement a "decent" manager, or head coach as he would most likely be at any club? Ramsey is at the moment ahead of Clement in terms of development as a head coach You really are a clown. I never said Clement was a decent manager. I was responding to the original poster who mentioned names and gave a scenario for both names he mentioned. I said what decent manager (referring to Mclaren) and then in a new sentence, said what new manager (what clement would be). If you read things properly and stooped looking to have a dig at everything I say, you would have seen that, but he ho.
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paulmason
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Post by paulmason on May 22, 2015 12:53:20 GMT
We may of had a chance of getting McClaren back if we had waited We could still have him in the only role I would ever want him in, an assistant coach You are deluded if you think 1) Mclaren would work as an assistant to Cris Ramsey, answering to Les Ferdinand. 2) Ramsey would appoint a ready made replacement as his assistant.
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Post by RoryTheRanger on May 22, 2015 13:36:26 GMT
Managers tend not to work under DOF's anyway so point moot. Plus what on earth makes Clement a "decent" manager, or head coach as he would most likely be at any club? Ramsey is at the moment ahead of Clement in terms of development as a head coach You really are a clown. I never said Clement was a decent manager. I was responding to the original poster who mentioned names and gave a scenario for both names he mentioned. I said what decent manager (referring to Mclaren) and then in a new sentence, said what new manager (what clement would be). If you read things properly and stooped looking to have a dig at everything I say, you would have seen that, but he ho. Well considering the whole thread is about Clement it's very easy to asume your whole post was about the same man.......
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Post by RoryTheRanger on May 22, 2015 13:37:12 GMT
We could still have him in the only role I would ever want him in, an assistant coach You are deluded if you think 1) Mclaren would work as an assistant to Cris Ramsey, answering to Les Ferdinand. 2) Ramsey would appoint a ready made replacement as his assistant. My point was more that I wouldn't want him as manager as he's consistently flopped when in charge of his own squad but you just carry on being touchy
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paulmason
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Post by paulmason on May 22, 2015 13:50:07 GMT
You are deluded if you think 1) Mclaren would work as an assistant to Cris Ramsey, answering to Les Ferdinand. 2) Ramsey would appoint a ready made replacement as his assistant. My point was more that I wouldn't want him as manager as he's consistently flopped when in charge of his own squad but you just carry on being touchy Middlesbrough FC, FC Twente and Derby County. Take away the last 10 games at Derby where they had injury problems, has he really consistently flopped? I remember reports of last season, being the best in a generation. PS: The wheels seem to fall of our wagon last year when he left to join Derby.
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Post by RoryTheRanger on May 22, 2015 13:59:34 GMT
My point was more that I wouldn't want him as manager as he's consistently flopped when in charge of his own squad but you just carry on being touchy Middlesbrough FC, FC Twente and Derby County. Take away the last 10 games at Derby where they had injury problems, has he really consistently flopped? I remember reports of last season, being the best in a generation. PS: The wheels seem to fall of our wagon last year when he left to join Derby. I can't deny the last bit, and I think that's mainly because he's far better as an assistant coach. I would say Derby is a big flop but that's just my opinion, I mean that squad should easily be finishing in the play-offs at least and should have won promotion over us last season too.
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paulmason
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Post by paulmason on May 22, 2015 14:12:13 GMT
oaWhat decent Manager would work under Les Ferdinand, an inexperienced director of football. Also, what new manager would pin their hopes of success on him as well. We have got the level of coach we will attract, why Les is at W12, so I would not worry about the coulda, shoulda, woulda. Managers tend not to work under DOF's anyway so point moot. Plus what on earth makes Clement a "decent" manager, or head coach as he would most likely be at any club? Ramsey is at the moment ahead of Clement in terms of development as a head coachNot according to my eyes he is not Paul Clement 1996–1999 ------ Chelsea (Academy Coach) 1999–2000 ------ Fulham (Academy Coach) 2000 ------ Republic Of Ireland U21 (Coach) 2007–2011 ------ Chelsea (Coach) 2011–2012 ------ Blackburn Rovers (Assistant Coach) 2012–2013 ------ Paris Saint-Germain (Assistant Coach) 2013 ------ Real Madrid (Assistant Coach) Chris Ramsey 1998–2000 ------ England U20 2001–2004 ------ Charleston Battery 2015 ------ Queens Park Rangers (caretaker) 2015 ------ Queens Park Rangers
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Post by RoryTheRanger on May 22, 2015 14:14:46 GMT
Managers tend not to work under DOF's anyway so point moot. Plus what on earth makes Clement a "decent" manager, or head coach as he would most likely be at any club? Ramsey is at the moment ahead of Clement in terms of development as a head coachNot according to my eyes he is not Paul Clement 1996–1999 Chelsea (Academy Coach) 1999–2000 Fulham (Academy Coach) 2000 Republic Of Ireland U21 (Coach) 2007–2011 Chelsea (Coach) 2011–2012 Blackburn Rovers (Assistant Coach) 2012–2013 Paris Saint-Germain (Assistant Coach) 2013– Real Madrid (Assistant Coach) Chris Ramsey 1998–2000 England U20 2001–2004 Charleston Battery 2015 Queens Park Rangers (caretaker) 2015– Queens Park Rangers All you've done is list out jobs where they've been coaches, oh and left out Ramsey's stint from Spurs. In terms of actual experience of running their own squad, Ramsey is more experienced than Clement, that cannot be denied. They are both equally as risky appointments, one far cheaper than the other with relationships already in place with other club staff.
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paulmason
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Post by paulmason on May 22, 2015 14:32:18 GMT
That's wikipidea for you. Even if you add in his stint at Spurs, it is still not a patch on Clements experience.
Also, do you really think Ramsey's experience of Running QPR FC, for four months, where he had a shite win ratio and made stupid decisions, is better than someone who has been assistant manager at Real Madrid, for two years? (thats if wikipedia is correct)
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Post by RoryTheRanger on May 22, 2015 15:48:41 GMT
That's wikipidea for you. Even if you add in his stint at Spurs, it is still not a patch on Clements experience. Also, do you really think Ramsey's experience of Running QPR FC, for four months, where he had a shitee win ratio and made stupid decisions, is better than someone who has been assistant manager at Real Madrid, for two years? (thats if wikipedia is correct) Do you want to know what the funniest part of all that is, and I think it's something we both have to laugh at, Ramsey's win ratio (A measly 21%) was somehow higher than Redknapp's, Hughes and Warnock's in the Prem. And I agree with you that he made some stupid decisions, which goes to show just how crazy that stat is Just shows how messed up we've been in the Prem recently. But back to the case, it's really quite impossible to tell until both have been in charge of first teams for a while. I mean yeah obviously on paper Clement's career has been at a far higher standard than Ramsey's but there is no telling how he will take to managing his own squad rather than just following what the manager (in this case one of the best in the world in Ancelotti) wants.
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Post by nomar on May 22, 2015 16:19:40 GMT
Clement is this years Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.
Rewind back 2 seasons when everybody wanted Solskjaer for whatever vacant managers job was going.
He was the chic pick and you weren't a cool kid if you didn't name him as your choice to replace the outgoing manager in your team (Mark Hughes in our case).
Everyone swooned and praised Cardiff when they hired Solskjaer.
No one bangs the drum for Solskjaer for vacant managerial posts in the Prem or Championship these days.
Solskjaer at least had managerial experience. Clement, for all his glowing resume has never managed at Premier League or Championship level. So quite what people who are vociferously championing Clement are basing this supreme confidence and assumption that he's a great manager waiting to be discovered on is beyond me.
Maybe one of his endorsers would like to explain it for us uncool kids who don't actually see what makes him a slam dunk better choice than Ramsey?
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paulmason
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Post by paulmason on May 22, 2015 17:03:13 GMT
Clement is this years Ole Gunnar Solskjaer. Rewind back 2 seasons when everybody wanted Solskjaer for whatever vacant managers job was going. He was the chic pick and you weren't a cool kid if you didn't name him as your choice to replace the outgoing manager in your team (Mark Hughes in our case). Everyone swooned and praised Cardiff when they hired Solskjaer. No one bangs the drum for Solskjaer for vacant managerial posts in the Prem or Championship these days. Solskjaer at least had managerial experience. Clement, for all his glowing resume has never managed at Premier League or Championship level. So quite what people who are vociferously championing Clement are basing this supreme confidence and assumption that he's a great manager waiting to be discovered on is beyond me. Maybe one of his endorsers would like to explain it for us uncool kids who don't actually see what makes him a slam dunk better choice than Ramsey?No one on here and as far as I can see is championing Paul Clement. Define everyone swooning and praising?. Solskjaer is just a name who had done nothing. It was assumed he would make a good manager, a bit like Paul Ince and John Barnes. Ole Gunnar Solskjaer 2008–2011 ------ Manchester United Reserves 2011–2014 ------ Molde 2014 ------ Cardiff City Paul Clement 1996–1999 ------ Chelsea (Academy Coach) 1999–2000 ------ Fulham (Academy Coach) 2000 ------ Republic Of Ireland U21 (Coach) 2007–2011 ------ Chelsea (Coach) 2011–2012 ------ Blackburn Rovers (Assistant Coach) 2012–2013 ------ Paris Saint-Germain (Assistant Coach) 2013 ------ Real Madrid (Assistant Coach) There is no comparison between the two.
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Post by nomar on May 22, 2015 17:52:07 GMT
Clement is this years Ole Gunnar Solskjaer. Rewind back 2 seasons when everybody wanted Solskjaer for whatever vacant managers job was going. He was the chic pick and you weren't a cool kid if you didn't name him as your choice to replace the outgoing manager in your team (Mark Hughes in our case). Everyone swooned and praised Cardiff when they hired Solskjaer. No one bangs the drum for Solskjaer for vacant managerial posts in the Prem or Championship these days. Solskjaer at least had managerial experience. Clement, for all his glowing resume has never managed at Premier League or Championship level. So quite what people who are vociferously championing Clement are basing this supreme confidence and assumption that he's a great manager waiting to be discovered on is beyond me. Maybe one of his endorsers would like to explain it for us uncool kids who don't actually see what makes him a slam dunk better choice than Ramsey?No one on here and as far as I can see is championing Paul Clement. Define everyone swooning and praising?. Solskjaer is just a name who had done nothing. It was assumed he would make a good manager, a bit like Paul Ince and John Barnes. Ole Gunnar Solskjaer 2008–2011 ------ Manchester United Reserves 2011–2014 ------ Molde 2014 ------ Cardiff City Paul Clement 1996–1999 ------ Chelsea (Academy Coach) 1999–2000 ------ Fulham (Academy Coach) 2000 ------ Republic Of Ireland U21 (Coach) 2007–2011 ------ Chelsea (Coach) 2011–2012 ------ Blackburn Rovers (Assistant Coach) 2012–2013 ------ Paris Saint-Germain (Assistant Coach) 2013 ------ Real Madrid (Assistant Coach) There is no comparison between the two. Solskjaer won the league in his country and took his team to the Champions League. He's also managed in the Premier League. How is there no comparison between that and what Clement has done? By the way, I could tell you what Solskjaer has done without the need to refer to Google. I genuinely doubt you knew what Clement had done without having to consult Wikepedia.
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Post by harr on May 22, 2015 19:26:47 GMT
Ramsey might have a better win % in the Prem now but Warnocks record is a very good record. He averaged a 40 % win ratio in the Prem and Championship at QPR and he averages a 40 % win ratio over all his Clubs. Not that many Managers achieve that.
Take Ramsey hell of a while to get touching that.
I would class Clements record and experience very high , considering the teams he has been coaching and not just youth teams. He may not have managed 14 Prem games but he quite possibly would have got us more than three wins from fourteen.
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Post by Macmoish on May 22, 2015 20:24:19 GMT
Dow e believe Clement was the "Dream Candidate" that Fernandes was referring to?
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Post by Roller on May 22, 2015 20:45:27 GMT
Do we believe Clement was the "Dream Candidate" that Fernandes was referring to? That was always my assumption, no rhyme or reason for believing so though.
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Post by nomar on May 22, 2015 20:49:55 GMT
Ramsey might have a better win % in the Prem now but Warnocks record is a very good record. He averaged a 40 % win ratio in the Prem and Championship at QPR and he averages a 40 % win ratio over all his Clubs. Not that many Managers achieve that. Take Ramsey hell of a while to get touching that. I would class Clements record and experience very high , considering the teams he has been coaching and not just youth teams. He may not have managed 14 Prem games but he quite possibly would have got us more than three wins from fourteen. But he still has all the inexperience that Ramsey is getting slated for. That is what I don't get. Anyone would believe that we're comparing Chris Ramsey to Jose Mourinho. We're not. We're comparing one novice manager with another who hasn't actually managed at all. So what fills you with confidence that you'd rather hand the keys to the car to this man as opposed to Ramsey? What is the basis on which you're placing your faith in him?
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Post by harr on May 22, 2015 20:53:28 GMT
Im starting to think his dream candidate was Chris Ramsey.
I'm sure other board members get consulted about the position though and its not just TF who makes these decisions. TF appears to be a shrewd businessman but I could never understand how he stuck with HR for so long.
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Post by nomar on May 22, 2015 20:58:17 GMT
Im starting to think his dream candidate was Chris Ramsey. I'm sure other board members get consulted about the position though and its not just TF who makes these decisions. TF appears to be a shrewd businessman but I could never understand how he stuck with HR for so long. MacIntyre believes it was Clement. My guess was that Clement turned us down in the winter and they set it up for Sherwood to come in. For whatever reason we'll probably never know Sherwood never happened and at that point Les probably suggested that Ramsey would be a good fit for us.
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Post by Roller on May 22, 2015 21:05:11 GMT
Im starting to think his dream candidate was Chris Ramsey. I'm sure other board members get consulted about the position though and its not just TF who makes these decisions. TF appears to be a shrewd businessman but I could never understand how he stuck with HR for so long. MacIntyre believes it was Clement. My guess was that Clement turned us down in the winter and they set it up for Sherwood to come in. For whatever reason we'll probably never know Sherwood never happened and at that point Les probably suggested that Ramsey would be a good fit for us. Or Clement said he take over IF we stayed up.
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Post by nomar on May 22, 2015 21:46:51 GMT
MacIntyre believes it was Clement. My guess was that Clement turned us down in the winter and they set it up for Sherwood to come in. For whatever reason we'll probably never know Sherwood never happened and at that point Les probably suggested that Ramsey would be a good fit for us. Or Clement said he take over IF we stayed up. That's a possibility, but I think if we stayed up Ramsey would still be given the gig. It would look foolish, even by our imbecilic standards, to have Ramsey keep us up and then get rid of him for Clement.
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maude
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Post by maude on May 23, 2015 0:00:24 GMT
I wish Paul mason gets a proper username. What a joker
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Post by eusebio13 on May 23, 2015 15:21:12 GMT
I would have preferred Clement to Ramsey but I'm ok with Ramsey. If we're going to go down the DoF route then we need coach first and for most not a manager who would want control of transfers. Both Clement and Ramsey fit that description... Ramsey's big plus is his relationship with Les and his ability to get better performance out of certain players. Tactically he's been hit and miss...he was tactically good v Liverpool, Villa, Chelsea & WBA but pretty horrible against West Ham, Palace & Man C. Next season is going to be difficult, we got lucky getting Austin for £4m two years ago and replacing him is going to be hard on a budget, I think we can get a serviceable team on the pitch depending on whether Phillips, Fer, Caulker go to.
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Post by Markqpr on May 23, 2015 18:20:04 GMT
I would have preferred Clement to Ramsey but I'm ok with Ramsey. If we're going to go down the DoF route then we need coach first and for most not a manager who would want control of transfers. Both Clement and Ramsey fit that description... Ramsey's big plus is his relationship with Les and his ability to get better performance out of certain players. Tactically he's been hit and miss...he was tactically good v Liverpool, Villa, Chelsea & WBA but pretty horrible against West Ham, Palace & Man C. Next season is going to be difficult, we got lucky getting Austin for £4m two years ago and replacing him is going to be hard on a budget, I think we can get a serviceable team on the pitch depending on whether Phillips, Fer, Caulker go to. As the man in your avatar would say 'Word to the mother, homie' I would simply say, agreed.
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