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Post by Macmoish on Oct 2, 2014 7:18:23 GMT
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Post by Macmoish on Oct 2, 2014 7:19:31 GMT
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Post by alfaranger on Oct 2, 2014 8:26:39 GMT
Yeah!! There's something about that post that makes me want to click the 'vomit' smiley. My half a brain (because I had hoped Remy would stay) that contains the 'cynic' programme suddenly clicked into play like some 'tourettes' reaction. I can't quite bring myself to celebrate his philanthropy in wanting to help the poor communities of London in preference to, say the poor communities of Kuala Lumpur where he grew up. We must be so lucky that he's prepared to travel half the world to probably the most expensive land costed city on the planet to realise his community dream. Cynicism is a good balance to blind faith. Blind faith often leads to religious fervour and I don't worship him. As a mitigation to TF, I hadn't ever thought that he was in it for anything other than profit and that because he seems a decent sort of bloke he would drag us along with him - I'm very much ok with that (and him). I just don't want to be fed that drivel. There, you can take me off to 'room 101' now and I'll be better after a short sit down with a cage strapped to my head.
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Post by Macmoish on Oct 2, 2014 8:36:17 GMT
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Post by Bushman on Oct 2, 2014 8:39:19 GMT
Soon to be seen walking on water!
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Post by Macmoish on Oct 2, 2014 8:58:10 GMT
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Post by blatantfowl on Oct 2, 2014 9:19:41 GMT
How nauseating. Smacks of someone who is told he is brilliant a bit too often. No one should lose he says? I have been standing up for the team in hard times but I baulk at Tony's poor choice of phrase considering we are losing a little too often than the fans would like. I am not on Twitter but I say here to Tony and Amit - Stop peering up each other's arseholes in wonderment at your own brilliance. Shut yer face and get on with your plans in dignified silence which is only broken when you need to give the fans sensible and clear communication on the real progress. What a pair of knobheads.
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Post by Macmoish on Oct 2, 2014 9:59:25 GMT
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ingham
Dave Sexton
Posts: 1,896
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Post by ingham on Oct 2, 2014 10:33:12 GMT
(Sorry, can't help laughing). Beautifully put - blatantly so, in fact. Agree with alfaranger too, although I don't think success for them benefits the Club. Ecclestone lost £22 million of QPR's money, but left with £35 million for himself. Strange, to the extent that he was supposed to be acting on the CLUB'S behalf, not his own. The most obvious indicator of this is the debt, a £178 million loss to QPR and a £178 million asset to Fernandes or whoever owns it. Same applies to the Club-pays-for-it Someone-else-owns-it and makes money out of it stadium. But it is amusing to see Fernandes, who dumped this vast loss on the Club, being praised by Bhatia, whose QPR is apparently 'debt-free'. Buying the Club gives the owners a property (the Club, as well as its assets) and shares - for themselves, as well as the debt, which they also own. There is nothing about them which is 'for the Club'. The owner gets his loans repaid by the next owner. The Club does not get its debt repaid in consequence. Given their historic reluctance to do anything other than increase it, we might be forgiven for thinking they couldn't give a toss. Which says to me that the ever-increasing value of English league Clubs is their value to their buyers and sellers who trade them. Not for the Clubs themselves. The Club doesn't benefit any more than a house benefits if a succession of owners buy it, and a succession of borrowers and lenders impose mortgage debt on it. Maybe this is why the Club is also loaded up regularly with witless and clueless chronically loss-making players - financial geniuses in their own interest, especially if we compare them to the the Club's so-called 'representatives' - but of chocolate teapot value to the Club. It is a failing of the football authorities, among others. A homeowner isn't usually expected to pay the mortgage AND allow the mortgage lender to run his home so that it CAN'T be made self-sustaining and independent of the control a charge against it gives the lender. If the owners were interested in helping the Club, they would have paid themselves off years ago. The only source of value is the Club (and its supporters, who pour money in, and never expect a penny back). That's why they flock round. Because when the promotions or titles or quality performances are delivered, it is the CLUBS which deliver them, as the records show. Just as it was QPR that won promotion. Not Fernandes. Or the players. Or the manager. It is about time we had decent football law. The law unleashed the useless, greedy, self-serving, overpaid, underperforming players on the Clubs in 1962 and subsequently. And if some Rs supportes are right, 'deregulation' left the Clubs helpless in a way they had never been before. Eliminating the minimum wage and retain and transfer system protected the Clubs, among other things, from the clowns who ran them. Maybe FFP will have some effect, although the impression is that the authorities are trying to do what governments do in their party conferences. Tell us all the things they want us to SUPPOSE they are doing, but which they can easily circumvent in practice because they are not, actually, COMMITTED to them in any meaningful sense.
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Post by sharky on Oct 2, 2014 12:42:26 GMT
What's so wrong about saying positive things about a new stadium that we all know we need?!
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Post by Macmoish on Oct 2, 2014 12:43:52 GMT
Fernandes latest "I quit Twitter" sure was shortlived!
He uses it not to inform - and certainly not to seriously discuss - but to promote himself, his airline, etc
But bottom line are Fans better off with him tweeting or without, and I'd say with
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Post by sharky on Oct 2, 2014 12:46:03 GMT
but to promote himself, his airline, etc .......and the football club he owns!
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Post by Macmoish on Oct 2, 2014 12:57:32 GMT
What's so wrong about saying positive things about a new stadium that we all know we need?! Positive things about a stadium is absolutely not a problem (even if I'm still addicted to Loftus Road) But He's linking the entire New Queens Project to the QPR Stadium And he wants QPR fans to push the entire project That's what perturbs me. I'm neither for nor against Fernandes making billions from New Queens Park. I just don't think it's appropriate to have QPR Fans pushing it en masse because Fernandes linkage Or to have QPR FC promoting all of New Queens Park - rather than just the new Stadium complex (It requires deeper answer than that. But in sum)
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Post by Bushman on Oct 2, 2014 16:20:30 GMT
Fernandes and his backers can make things happen in Asia, it's ripe for it.
In the UK he is impotent. He can talk the big stuff up as much as he likes, but nothing will come of it.
The Academy at Warren Farm is an example of his exuberance and reality.
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ingham
Dave Sexton
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Post by ingham on Oct 2, 2014 20:50:56 GMT
I think Mac is right. It comes across as promoting other interests. Interests which Fernandes doesn't actually have, if, as he has said, he isn't involved in the development. This seems especially questionable if the relationship is between the development and the stadium, not the development stadium and QPR.
And I do wonder sometimes if he has anything to do with any of it.
Some of his remarks about the development - including a comment that implied that our 40,000 fans would somehow come from or live in the housing to be constructed as part of the development - sound like he is taking dictation and simply jumbling ideas together because they have little or nothing to do with him.
This applies to the development and stadium as much as the CLub.
If he is not the developer, as he claims he is not, why push the development so hard at a point when the football team is still struggling to get results against even less fancied sides?
Isn't that his priority? We had big spending, apparently from loans made by him, but he says the resulting debt is 'stadium related', so maybe it is the behind-the-scenes owner of the stadium or the development as a whole who is responsible for the losses, and that is why they are related, not to TF's assets, but to the new ground.
If he is little more than a cipher or a front man - and what he tells us hardly amounts to an adequate explanation of anything that is going on - for whom, then? Mittal? Mittal is said to be behind the stadium. If the debt is money owed to Mittal, Mittal is in a position to load it onto the stadium.
And it may explain why the big spending lasted only as long as it amounted to less than the cost of the stadium given by Beard - £200 million.
But that would imply that Fernandes (or Mittal) has already lost the money earmarked for building the stadium. Maybe they have their eye on public money, making the development appear essential, then dropping it all, together with the losses, into the lap of the taxpayer.
With QPR tossed into the mix in the way West Ham have been with the Olympic Stadium, to give the impression that it already serves a purpose, apart from the obvious one of enriching the people who are pushing it.
The loss of the £178 million would explain why we are pushing hard at the bottom of the Premiership and not at the top. But nothing that is going on indicates that things will change sufficiently to make a 40,000 capacity stadium suitable for QPR.
A big spending QPR, muscling into the top four in the way previously languishing City and, to an extent, Chelsea did.
Other Clubs have done it. Why not QPR? Fernandes never seems to get round to telling us. My impression is that he just goes on and on either staying off the subject, or changing it.
'World class talent' is his expression. Where is it? Few people know how to produce that at a small Club, but buildings and developments are going up all the time. No football talent is required for that. And those buildings and developments never provide it.
Maybe he is completely disengaged, and that is the reason for the tweeting. A few words say little and explain nothing, amounting mostly, as far as I can tell, to little more than 'everything's ok'.
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Post by Hogan on Oct 2, 2014 21:13:39 GMT
Damn, what have I missed? Fernandes surely has done something totally amazing for Amit to call him a genius. Has he purchased all the land and already built the new stadium at New Queens Park creating tens of thousands of new jobs and affordable homes? No, What is it then, someone please?
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Post by sharky on Oct 3, 2014 0:06:11 GMT
Positive vibes! Don't come with them negative vibes man!
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Post by Hogan on Oct 3, 2014 0:52:09 GMT
You like all the BS then man.
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Post by RoryTheRanger on Oct 3, 2014 11:42:07 GMT
Here we go with all the anti-TF stuff then, seems to be all this board is about nowadays. Shame really.
From now on I'll stick to only chatting about the on the field goings on at QPR on here I think.
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Post by harr on Oct 3, 2014 12:49:37 GMT
I think most like TF Rory . He can say some silly things at times but can't we all, most of them on Twitter.The Remy stuff did annoy me as it was obvious he would go even if he was a close friend. But personally I hope he stays , seems to be improving more things than not and there's far far worse out there for sure. I am happy with the current board we have and hope they act accordingly if the Manager doesn't get the right results over coming months. Hope you carry on posting on everything as the board would be a worser place without your comments IMO . Urs Oh my youngest Son has just told me we have three games coming up all live on Sky is that right ? Blimey we must be a big team
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Post by sharky on Oct 3, 2014 14:16:57 GMT
Here we go with all the anti-TF stuff then, seems to be all this board is about nowadays. Shame really. From now on I'll stick to only chatting about the on the field goings on at QPR on here I think. I agree with your sentiments about the negativity at the moment Rory but I really enjoy your comments. Your a breath of fresh air. Please keep up your posts. We need them!
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Dave Sexton
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Post by ingham on Oct 3, 2014 14:58:32 GMT
You're quite right, 57. There is a bias there in favour of the Club and its supporters. The Club pays, the supporters pay - everyone else wallows in the money that QPR generates. So I don't mind giving them the blame for their failures, and I credit the Club for its successes. It is not unreasonable since players and managers and 'investors' make millions or tens of millions out of QPR, and the Club always sustains losses. That is unfair to my mind, but it is a mind biased in favour of QPR. Not an uncommon prejudice round here. And it is one of the things that catches up with investors and chairmen. Supporters don't have to be fair, they should take the part of the Club, if necessary against anyone and everyone else. Just my take on it, but it corresponds reasonably with the way supporters behave generally. If the Club had benefited to the tune of being £178 million in the black, was succeeding admirably on the pitch, would own the new ground outright (even if I didn't like it, or thought it too big), I would credit whoever was responsible on the basis that there seemed to be a clear benefit to QPR. In the same way, I give Gregory credit for his talent, but not for trying to shut us (and Fulham and Brentford) down and sell off our assets (or Fulham's) just to line his own pockets. This is why the business about negativity sounds strange to me. Even praise is a form of criticism. As we will see in extremely graphic terms the next time we have a manager or chairman who fails to deliver what he has been praised for promising. If our bias towards QPR determined how we looked at such people FROM THE OUTSET, they might last longer. Maybe they would even be inclined to promise less, and to be more honest about how hard it all is, how difficult it is to master, and how easy it is to get it wrong. As it is regime after regime tells us they can't fail. Then they do. Thompson and Wright, Paladini and Ecclestone, and even the managers who enjoyed success under them - Francis, Holloway, Warnock - got short shrift even from their admirers once the results failed to materialise. I think we are being reasonable and fair about the wrong things. Being kind to be cruel, if you like. Giving them our backing when we have no evidence that the Club will benefit thereby, is it possible that this leads them astray? Our friendly attitude evaporates fast, and we blame them for failing to achieve what it was unreasonable to expect them to achieve in the first place. The Gregory era is about the only one where relative success and outstanding high spots alternated for nearly a quarter of a century. That was very unusual indeed. Almost without exception, our high hopes have proved misplaced. Whatever is wrong, it is not our bias towards the Club, or, taking up the other point being made, a lack of a positive attitude. Yes, sure, this time we know, this time things will turn out all right. Perhaps if and when they do, we won't rush to praise the bit-part players first, but will credit the Club - and the supporters, who keep it going when these people fail and leg it - above all, and let them get any kudos only WHEN they have earned them. Though maybe only grudgingly .
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Post by Markqpr on Oct 3, 2014 18:44:27 GMT
What about the arts and crafts centre Tony? Don't tell me your backing out of that? Just think what it could do for the 'community' Damn, what have I missed? Fernandes surely has done something totally amazing for Amit to call him a genius. Has he purchased all the land and already built the new stadium at New Queens Park creating tens of thousands of new jobs and affordable homes? No, What is it then, someone please? He made Amit an independent and non-executive director at Air Asia! He's just blowing smoke up Tony's arse. It's what some directors tend to do. All the time. It creates confidence in the brand and workforce. Allegedly.
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Post by Hogan on Oct 3, 2014 19:55:33 GMT
What about the arts and crafts centre Tony? Don't tell me your backing out of that? Just think what it could do for the 'community' Damn, what have I missed? Fernandes surely has done something totally amazing for Amit to call him a genius. Has he purchased all the land and already built the new stadium at New Queens Park creating tens of thousands of new jobs and affordable homes? No, What is it then, someone please? He made Amit an independent and non-executive director at Air Asia! He's just blowing smoke up Tony's arse. It's what some directors tend to do. All the time. It creates confidence in the brand and workforce. Allegedly. Amit's family in India are involved in Air Asia India. I think there is some rule that the company has to be owned in part by an Indian national.
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Post by Hogan on Oct 3, 2014 19:59:38 GMT
And as for visionary, well, Ghandi was a visionary, Modi is also a visionary and has been fast tracking Gujarat state up the charts for the last decade plus and here we have Amits nomination..........Ghandi, Modi and erm Fernandes, hmmm. I am sure there was a wry smile and chuckle from Bhatia as he 'penned' that tweet.
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Post by Macmoish on Oct 3, 2014 20:32:19 GMT
Disagree with the tone of some posters, or be unhappy but I think for the most part, posters are usually very tolerant of each other Certainly I try to be. I have my views which I want to express. And I'd like to express their views (even unhappiness with my views being posted) I think that's how a board should be.
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Post by Markqpr on Oct 4, 2014 6:44:31 GMT
Amit's family in India are involved in Air Asia India. I think there is some rule that the company has to be owned in part by an Indian national. Yup, they are involved in so much as Amit's family are co-owners with Uncle Tone and Ratan Tata (chairman Emeritus of Tata Sons.) I really hope their new venture takes off! And as for visionary, well, Ghandi was a visionary, Modi is also a visionary and has been fast tracking Gujarat state up the charts for the last decade plus and here we have Amits nomination..........Ghandi, Modi and erm Fernandes, hmmm. I am sure there was a wry smile and chuckle from Bhatia as he 'penned' that tweet. Maybe he was talking about the debt. Amit only managed a debt of circa £30m during his first three years at the club. Uncle Tone has put that to shame!
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Post by Macmoish on Oct 2, 2015 7:55:53 GMT
Bump a year
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