ronski
Gerry Francis
I have some old QPR pictures how do you post them on this site.
Posts: 61
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Post by ronski on Jul 29, 2011 13:12:26 GMT
I know Smudger Smith had the fish shop with Arthur Jefferson but he also did some local coaching, he was our coach at the Harrow boys club in Latimer Road in the mid fifties.
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Post by gramps on Jul 29, 2011 13:14:43 GMT
ronski, was there a school in Latimer Road? You have jogged a memory there. I seem to recall my father saying he went to Latimer Road school.
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ronski
Gerry Francis
I have some old QPR pictures how do you post them on this site.
Posts: 61
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Post by ronski on Jul 29, 2011 15:37:05 GMT
Yes, Latimer Road School was on the opposite side of the road to the club, opposite the carpet cleaning company.
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Post by gramps on Jul 29, 2011 16:27:36 GMT
Thanks for that.
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Post by Macmoish on Jul 29, 2011 17:00:33 GMT
So Gramps. At your convenience...Put your already posted memories in chronological order and then have a special thread of your memories which hopefully many people read on....
And it makes me think about a broader "Oral History" re QPR's earlier days.
We had a little bit of it from Neil Roberts...We've had it from the various interviews posted here in a couple of instances. Posted even more so, in some interviews on other boards.
It's just extremely fascinating and a nice link to QPR's past.
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Post by gramps on Jul 29, 2011 18:00:11 GMT
Will try to get round to that Mike. Already roughly in chronological order but needs a bit of 'tweaking' and shuffling round. Not sure what you mean about "Oral History" or how to develop the special thread. I truly am not very clever on the finer points of computing. Perhaps we could discuss on PM? Or I am always available by phone. Things area a bit busy at present but will get round to it.
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Post by gramps on Jul 30, 2011 11:06:56 GMT
The Old Days (9)
Things are looking better (but not much)
Reverting back just a little (well, I did warn you that I keep getting these flashes of memory about things I have forgotten) I didn't mention that in 1952 I went to work for Dunn's the hatters (no rude jokes about hatters please). To my great delight I found out that one of the joint Managing Directors - a guy named Fretten - was on the QPR board. "Great," I thought, "perhaps I can talk football with him and maybe tap him up for a free ticket." In my dreams! Miserable sod didn't want to know. Perhaps something to do with him being a Managing Director and me a glorified office boy on £2. 5s. 0d. a week (for you kids that's £2.25.) Hey ho, it was worth a try.
So we come to season 1954/55 where I am a long(ish) distance supporter in Germany on an R.A.F. station and can only go by what I read in the papers (usually a couple of days late) and what I have heard on the radio. This does not distress me overmuch because it's rather a case of "same old, same old" although this is something we learned to live with over the years. Have you ever noticed that the Rs can be a really frustrating side at times? The season started really well with us being unbeaten in the first seven games (4 draws and 3 wins) - the best start for a couple of years. "What happened then?" you ask. Three away games, three defeats, scored one and six against us. Then another six games without a defeat (4 wins, 2 draws) and another slump. Nobody in those days could accuse us of being consistent! This was pretty much the pattern for the rest of the season but, as my headline suggests, things had looked up; we were tenth from the bottom rather than seventh as we were in the previous season! Once again we had quite a good goal tally but were let down by the defence. An interesting observation when we are thinking at present about how important a good defence will be to us next season.
The records tell me that we had a guy (Scottish, I think) named Willie Clark playing for us for just two seasons at about that time. He had gone by the time I was demobbed. He was only 22 when he joined the club, played 97 games and scored 32 goals so he would appear to have been fairly useful. I personally have no recollection of him at all and wonder, if he was scoring at that rate at a fairly tender age, why he left us. My first thought was that, as a Scot, he probably wanted to go back north of the border but my research tells me that he transferred to Berwick Rangers, scored 6 goals in 20 games as centre forward then was transferred to Cheltenham Town where he disappeared into obscurity. In his first season with us he was top scorer. There must be a story there somewhere but I doubt we shall ever know.
This season, however, we did have one really bad humiliation. We were drawn in the first round of the FA Cup against the Isthmian League's Walthamstow Avenue, drew at home 2-2, drew in the replay 2-2 then at a neutral ground (Highbury) we were thrashed 4-0. To be fair, though, it has to be pointed out that Walthamstow had played Manchester United at Old Trafford a couple of years previously and drawn 1-1 but lost the replay at Highbury 5-2. At that time they were the Isthmian League champions - a title they won many times in their history.
So we move on to season 1955/56, looking to maintain the minimal (very) improvement we had made last year. This was the season when three Rugby League matches were played at Loftus Road in an attempt to bring the northern game into the south but the experiment was a failure and very short lived. The one success (although hardly a major one) was the reserves winning the London Challenge Cup. At the beginning of the season a few players were transferred in but none of them were to hit the headlines. The major departure from the club was half back Brian Nicholas who was snapped up by Chelsea. Nicholas was a good, steady player who had been with us for six years. He only stayed at Stamford Bridge for a couple of years and did not shine there, eventually moving to Coventry City and obscurity.
A poor start to the season with only three wins in the first 21 games. It was very mediocre for the rest of the season and we had our best and worst games in succession to each other. We first lost 7-1 away to Leyton Orient then the following week at home beat Colchester 6-2. However, there was a feeling of deja vu because we once again finished seventh from bottom. Our FA Cup form was, at least, consistent in that we once again lost in the first round 2-0 away to Southend United. Top scorer was Conway Smith with 19 goals from 37 games.
The good news ....... at last I was a civilian again!
Watch this space...............
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Post by gramps on Aug 4, 2011 14:06:55 GMT
The Old Days (10)
Progress at last
After the traumas of the previous year, things at last started to look up in season 1956/57. I'd like to think that was because I was now in a position to start going to games again and the team were inspired by my presence, but somehow I don't think that was the case. Our start was mediocre but at least we had four wins and two draws in our opening eight games which was somewhat better than in previous seasons. There was nothing particularly spectacular about the season as I recall other than (on the minus side) us going something like five games towards the end and not scoring a single goal. Be that as it may, we did end up in a better position in that we were tenth in the table; another two points during the year would have put us in seventh.
As I have already mentioned, 1957/58 was a vital season for every club in the two third divisions. A decision had been made to end the regionalisation of the Third Divisions and reorganise the clubs into a third and fourth division. It was therefore decided that the clubs in the bottom half of each third division at the end of the season would form the new fourth division. For some years thereafter four clubs were promoted/relegated between these two. Bearing in mind our recent dubious record this was indeed a worrying season as we had to finish in the top twelve to avoid plunging into the depths.
Rangers went into the transfer market, buying five players (mainly from non-league clubs) to 'strengthen' the squad. Many of us felt, and were later proved right, that none of these signings would come to much. In 46 games played these five players between them appeared in a total of 38 and all had departed within two years.
The season started well with maximum points coming from our first two games. Our third game was against Southend United and we went down spectacularly by 0-6! In the following nine games we were beaten 5-0 by both Southampton and Millwall. After fourteen games we had accumulated just 13 points and things were not looking good. Fortunately our fortunes changed and we won five of our next six games although that was followed up by no less that six consecutive draws. So the rest of the season was one of ups and downs until, thank goodness, at the end we were in tenth position (as we were the previous year), just scraping into the new third division by two places. Our top scorer was Arthur Longbottom (who later changed his name by deed poll to Langley) with 17 (from 40 games) supported by Les Locke who netted 13 from just 22 games. In the FA Cup we drew with Clapton 1-1 in the first round, winning the replay 3-1, only to go out in round two to Hereford United by 1-6 (oh dear!).
The first season of the new third division was again one of mediocrity for Rangers and after a mixed bag of results we ended up in the bottom half, 13th of 24 teams. Once again, for the third consecutive campaign, Arthur Longbottom was our top scorer with 20 goals. Our goalkeeper was Ray Drinkwater who took over the position from Ron Springett who had departed to Sheffield Wednesday towards the end of the previous season. It was in 1958 that we also signed winger Clive Clark from Leeds. Clive was subsequently to play a big role against us in 1967 but that will come in a later episode (even though I am probably 'preaching to the converted' here).
Some more out of sequence flashes back to the past. In the mid-60s I served some time in the Territorial Army. One year we were fortunate enough to go to Cyprus for our annual camp. Altogether we had quite an easy time of it. Due to the heat we started work at 6 am and went through to about 1 pm after which our time was our own. We found out whilst over there that Cardiff City were playing a pre-season friendly against a local club in the south of the island so decided to go along. The seating in the ground was hard benches and I remember seeing the Cardiff guys arriving (including John Toshack). They took one look at the pitch and there were clearly heard comments all revolving round things like "W.T.F." There was not one single blade of grass to be found. The whole of the pitch was hard baked dust. The Cardiff guys all came out in track suit trousers, doubtless aware that there was a distinct possibility of serious injury. Can't remember the score but the delight of the Cardiff players was obvious when they heard about 30 squaddies cheering them on. (Yes I know it was Cardiff but I was hardly going to cheer the Cyprus team was I?).
Also in the mid 60s I recall the occasion when I was attending a Ladies' Festival in Poole. Prior to the dinner, several of us were sitting in a large jacuzzi talking about football and I was boasting about being a supporter of Rs. One of the guys said "Oh, I play for QPR". "Really," I said, "Who are you?". He said "Bobby Keetch“ then I realised it really was him. I got out of it by apologizing and explaining that my eyesight was not too good without my glasses (who wears glasses in a sauna). Almost said that I didn't recognise him without his clothes on but bit my tongue in time!
Before I close this episode, I have another memory I would like to share, jogged out of me by a recent thread. Thank goodness we don't have the problems now but there was a time very many years ago when we had regular and serious crowd trouble. Unless you were looking for a punch-up the game to avoid was against Millwall both home and away where there was a long running "war". Although I didn't see it myself, I remember my father telling me of a time in the dark ages when a referee had made a decision at Loftus Road which was not popular with the Millwall team or supporters. After the game a group of Millwall fans managed to get hold of a large plank which they used as a battering ram and smashed in the window of the referee's dressing room. He survived and a number of arrests were made by the police.
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Post by Zamoraaaah on Aug 4, 2011 14:22:14 GMT
Thank you Gramps. Great reading as ever.
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Post by gramps on Aug 4, 2011 15:35:08 GMT
Thank you Gramps. Great reading as ever. Thanks Zed. My pleasure. Got the old grey cells working again.
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Post by RoryTheRanger on Aug 4, 2011 15:36:03 GMT
Yet another brilliant episode, very much looking forward to the next.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2011 16:11:45 GMT
In the old days this used to be all fields......... ;D Apologies to gramps ;D
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Post by gramps on Aug 4, 2011 16:16:33 GMT
In the old days this used to be all fields......... ;D Apologies to gramps ;D
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Post by waterbuffalo on Aug 4, 2011 18:09:16 GMT
A poor start to the season with only three wins in the first 21 games. It was very mediocre for the rest of the season and we had our best and worst games in succession to each other. We first lost 7-1 away to Leyton Orient then the following week at home beat Colchester 6-2. However, there was a feeling of deja vu because we once again finished seventh from bottom.-gramps
Oh oh...I hope we don't feel any deja vu this season, 3 wins from 21? Ouch! I'll take 7th from bottom, though, but by then we'd be on to our 3rd manager..
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Post by Macmoish on Aug 5, 2011 6:42:56 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2011 9:49:56 GMT
In the old days this used to be all fields......... ;D Apologies to gramps ;D Sorry gramps had a bit of a funny turn yesterday, too many lemonade shandies and I really should know better. Keep up the good work and it's the first post I turn to when I log on. Do you think you may have enough material in the end to publish a book?
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Post by gramps on Aug 5, 2011 10:28:15 GMT
Maybe enough material, Walter, but not the time. Perhaps put it together in a book form for personal consumption but could not afford to go to the lengths of a professional publication which is hugely expensive and requires a lot of sales to just cover the costs.
I have written several 'books' and bound them myself. These were all for use in the professional situation when I was working and one or two other things since retirement. It takes a very long time. My latest project involving stained glass windows has been going for more than a year and will take at least another year. May end up selling 10 copies if I am lucky.
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Post by auburnqpr on Aug 5, 2011 20:23:50 GMT
My Great Uncle was a former player for QPR...do any of you have any memories of him playing or any facts that you could tell me. His name was Lesley Locke and played from 1955-1960...I also know he was good friends with peter angell
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Post by Bushman on Aug 5, 2011 21:46:15 GMT
My Great Uncle was a former player for QPR...do any of you have any memories of him playing or any facts that you could tell me. His name was Lesley Locke and played from 1955-1960...I also know he was good friends with peter angell Leslie Locke born in Perth, Scotland. Leslie joined Rangers as an amateur in May 1956 from Bromley. In 1958 the outside left turned professional for Rangers giving up a career in International Athletics. In 1958 he took his B.Sc. degree in Technical Sales Engineering at London University. July 1960 he was transferred to Guilford City. He played 76 League games and scored 24 goal. Plus 2 cup games and 2 goals for QPR. Leslie Locke
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Post by gramps on Aug 5, 2011 21:48:26 GMT
Auburn has also contacted me by PM and I have promised to come up with maybe a bit more info from the record books.
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Post by RoryTheRanger on Aug 5, 2011 21:49:20 GMT
My Great Uncle was a former player for QPR...do any of you have any memories of him playing or any facts that you could tell me. His name was Lesley Locke and played from 1955-1960...I also know he was good friends with peter angell See, I told you they would help
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Post by gramps on Aug 6, 2011 11:34:18 GMT
More detailed info researched for you, auburn. See your PMs.
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Post by saphilip on Aug 6, 2011 12:39:21 GMT
God knows why but I have only seen this thread now. This is a great one, good to hear first hand notes of the old days from somebody who experienced it. Keep it up Gramps because I sure enjoyed reading your comments.
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Post by gramps on Aug 6, 2011 13:06:13 GMT
Thanks saphilip - better late than never. Will get episode 11 done as soon as I can find a bit of time. Not sure how long the series will run. The funny thing about all this is that I remember the 30s, 40s, 50s and 60s better than more recent stuff.
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Post by gramps on Aug 7, 2011 18:11:15 GMT
Just to let you know that I have started on episode 11 but may take a few days yet to get completed. Please bear with me. Would like to keep the series going into the sixties but may well be drawing it to a gentle close then. As I said to saphilip, beyond the sixties becomes a bit of a blur. This may well be because, although I have never stopped supporting Rs, at that time I had a job which was incredibly demanding - a 14-16 hour day was not unusual and I suffered two nervous breakdowns - and my ability to keep in close touch with LR was severely limited. There is no point in me going beyond the 60s by pinching and re-hashing other peoples' material or simply by raiding various statistics that others can find for themselves.
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Post by RoryTheRanger on Aug 7, 2011 18:12:37 GMT
Carry on for as long as you like gramps, I will be looking forward to it.
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Post by gramps on Aug 11, 2011 10:16:33 GMT
The Old Days (11)
Things look up a bit
The 1959/60 season saw a change of manager for Rangers. Alec Stock, as many will agree, one of our best ever managers, re-joined the club as Jack Taylor had departed to take over at Leeds United. Alec played for us as a centre forward in 1938, scoring 16 goals in 47 games. After the war he managed non-league Yeovil Town and took them to the fifth round of the FA Cup, beating Sunderland along the way. It was hoped that he could revive the club's flagging fortunes and in an attempt to do so he made a number of signings which included Brian Bedford who was a prolific goal scorer and hit the net 180 times in 284 games in 6 years with the club - probably more than many of today's strikers accumulate in their entire career. Stock also signed winger Jimmy Andrews. Two players came into the fold from our juniors. They were half back, and later captain Mike Keen - a great favourite who played over 400 games for the club and following a spell at Watford as player-manager came back to us for a while as a coach, and John Collins who played in nearly 200 matches. One of the several players to leave the club that year was George Whitelaw who played only a handful of games and scored a few goals. The only reason his name springs to mind is that I seem to recall him being nicknamed "Garth" as he was a fairly hefty, muscle bound bloke. Those of you reading this who are of the older generation may recall that Garth was a Daily Mirror cartoon character of similar stature. Strange what silly things come to mind when recounting these old stories.
The season overall was more successful than previous years had been. The team did well at home but were badly let down by their away form, only achieving four wins and seventeen defeats. Nevertheless the final league position of eighth was our best since coming back into the third division in 1952. Had another three points been scraped up during the season we could conceivably have been third. In his first season with the club Brian Bedford was top scorer with 27 goals. Indeed, he top scored for the club in every one of his six years in the hooped shirt. The sort of opportunist who would in the present day be in considerable demand.
In the FA Cup this season we did not progress beyond round two. We beat Colchester United 3-2 in round one and lost 2-1 to Port Vale in round two following a 3-3 draw.
Just moving away from Rangers a little, it is interesting to note that in 1959 a certain Bill Shankly came from Huddersfield to take over as manager of second division Liverpool who ended that season and the next in third place prior to their promotion in 1962. That was indeed the commencement of a great era for the scousers.
So, having seen a bit of an improvement, we come to the 1960/61 season and the hope that a reversion to the hoops would give that bit of extra sparkle. We said goodbye to George Petchey and Pat Kerrins who both went to Crystal Palace and made a few signings although none of great significance. The start of the season did not look too promising with two defeats away, followed by two wins at home then two draws away. Once we settled into the season, however, there were signs that we might do somewhat better this year - and so we did. Everything seemed to be going well but only three wins in our last seven games meant that we ended up in third place, just missing promotion by two points although, even with those points, our goal average would probably have let us down. (n.b. At that time it was decided on goal average rather than goal difference as it is now.)
There was no improvement in our FA Cup performances. After beating Walthamstow Avenue 3-2 (a Brian Bedford hat-trick) we lost at home 1-2 to Coventry City. After a 2-2 draw in the League Cup at home to Port Vale we lost the replay 1-3.
The highlight of the year had to be our 9-2 home win against Tranmere Rovers whose defence leaked 115 goals that season. Amazingly, the crowd (is that the right word?) numbered only 4,805. I am happy to say that dad and I were two of those! The architects of the win were Clive Clark and Jimmy Andrews on the wings, both of whom put in a stream of brilliant crosses. Brian Bedford, Clive Clark, Mark Lazarus and Bernard Evans all scored twice with Jimmy Andrews adding the last goal. I don't think I was the only one disappointed that we didn't get into double figures and I well remember shouting myself hoarse wanting 10 goals. How greedy is that?
Team: Drinkwater; Woods, Ingham, Keen, Rutter, Angell, Lazarus, Bedford, Evans, Andrews, Clark.
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Post by Zamoraaaah on Aug 11, 2011 13:06:21 GMT
Another great installment. Cheers Gramps.
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Post by gramps on Aug 11, 2011 18:10:20 GMT
My pleasure Zed. I may have one or two more in me!
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Post by RoryTheRanger on Aug 11, 2011 18:14:54 GMT
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