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Post by gramps on Jul 14, 2011 20:48:51 GMT
Too true, or tell us if he knows who he scored his only goal against would ne nice. Cant find anything. See above, Harlow, from my latest: One final word about Jeff. The number three shirt was his for something in excess of 360 games and in all that time he scored just one goal. I was at that game in 1949 when we beat Bury 3-1 in Division two
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Post by gramps on Jul 14, 2011 20:56:47 GMT
Would really like to thank you guys for your contributions to this thread. I can only recount my limited memories but your input from those days not only helps my recall to some extent but also completes the picture for others who can only have the vaguest of ideas what it was like.
Does it sound corny to say that in many ways the game was a lot more "innocent" in those days when money was only a secondary consideration with players getting just £6-£8 a week? The players were not untouchable 'gods' - more like mates to the supporters.
Incidentally, I did not know that Mike Keen died a couple of years ago. Very sad - he was a good club man and captain of QPR.
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Post by gramps on Jul 15, 2011 10:55:58 GMT
The Old Days (4)
Still in the 40s
A good opportunity to bore you a bit more with some of my favourite players in these early days, starting with goalkeeper Reg Allen.
If I really had to pick my all time best QPR ‘keeper it would be extremely difficult as we have been so lucky over the years in this position. Names like Phil Parkes, David Seaman and Ron Springett all come to mind, all of whom played for England. No slouches between the sticks were Ron Springett’s brother Peter who joined us from Sheffield Wednesday in part exchange for Ron who moved the other way, Scottish ‘keeper Stan Gullan, Harry Brown and Reg Saphin. I was lucky enough to see all of them but Reg Allen always stood out for me. So much is known about him and shown elsewhere on these boards that I will not dwell on him other than to say that he was totally fearless and would not hesitate to dive head first at the feet of an attacker when necessary. He was a spectacular custodian and even when an opposing forward was running towards goal in the clear there was always a better than even chance that Reg would prevent a goal being scored. Arguably one of the very best goalkeepers never to get a full England game. Such a great pity that this former Royal Marine Commando’s life was ended in such tragic circumstances, probably as a direct result of his treatment as a prisoner of war.
We had some really good strikers too. Bert Addinall scored 73 goals in 172 games – not a bad ratio by today’s standards. He was not a recognizably skilful ball player – perhaps some would suggest that he was something of a ‘goal hanger’ who always managed to get himself in the right place at the right time. He was never worried about getting knocked off the ball and seemed to shrug off the tough tackles easily. Left foot, right foot and head all came into play for this old fashioned centre forward. Two important things to remember here are that in those days a hefty shoulder charge against an opposition player was perfectly legitimate – provided of course that he was in possession of the ball – and I have on more than one occasion seen a goalkeeper charged into the net whilst still holding the ball. The other point I would make is that virtually all teams played a standard 2-3-5 formation in those days (for what it’s worth I still think it was better than anything used today) and a centre forward was not expected to move too far back. For all his prolific scoring, I only ever remember Bert getting one hat trick and that was at the beginning of the 1948 season in the second division. I was a 12 year old behind the School End goal right in the front – my mate Bill and I always liked to be close to Reg Allen for at least half the game – and Bert got us off to a great start in our first home game against Leicester City with three beautifully taken goals to give us a 4-1 win.
Another prolific scorer in those days was inside left Cyril Hatton who scored a few short of 100 goals in just over 200 games. Cyril was slight of build but quite speedy with a knack of getting himself in the right place at the right time. I have spent a long time desperately trying to think of just when it occurred but I am now pretty sure it was in a match against West Ham towards the end of the 1948/9 season that Cyril scored one of the best goals I have ever seen to give us a 2-1 victory. Johnny Hartburn was running down the right wing with the ball at his feet and Cyril was to his left in centre field pointing to a spot where he wanted the ball so he could take it in his stride. He got his wish and smacked it into the net from about 25-30 yards out. I have seldom seen a ball hit harder and the goalkeeper didn’t even have time to move. There was such a look of amazement on Cyril’s face because I don’t think he could believe it himself – gobsmacked does not do it credit! It was the sort of goal that many of us have seen Bobby Charlton score in more recent times but credit had to go to Hartburn because it would likely never have happened without his pinpoint assist. He was a totally reliable winger – not the best the club has ever had but a hard worker who always gave of his best.
Amazing how writing these memories down has tended to stir up the grey cells. In my next edition I’ll be talking about some comical incidents which occurred at LR.
Keep the comments coming, guys. I appreciate them.
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Post by haqpr1963 on Jul 15, 2011 11:07:42 GMT
Bloody brilliant stuff Gramps.
Now that is what makes this site so very special....
Keep it up mate.
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Post by gramps on Jul 15, 2011 11:19:19 GMT
Bloody brilliant stuff Gramps. Now that is what makes this site so very special.... Keep it up mate. Many thanks. I appreciate your comments. Working on the next episode but may take a couple of days as I have a busy weekend ahead.
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Post by RoryTheRanger on Jul 15, 2011 11:32:30 GMT
Bloody brilliant stuff Gramps. Now that is what makes this site so very special.... Keep it up mate. Many thanks. I appreciate your comments. Working on the next episode but may take a couple of days as I have a busy weekend ahead. Looking forward to it
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Post by londonranger on Jul 15, 2011 14:20:04 GMT
Best forward line for me was McEwan, Ramscar, Duggan Hattton Hartburn. Duggan very prolific. Did you see Danny Boxshall
Scored many goals then disappeared. Was not on div 2 team, which is your next write. We had to sell on to keep on and it caught up obviously. Wont steal your thunder but cant wait for your version as we all have our own realities of life. Great addition to Report and glad you picked us.
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Post by gramps on Jul 15, 2011 14:34:17 GMT
I guess you must be about the same age as me then? Not many are! Yes I do remember Danny Boxshall. I was about to say that I could not remember what happened to him and thought about Googling his name. Came up with this, which answers the question. I didn't know he was also a war hero; www.indyrs.co.uk/?p=755
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Post by londonranger on Jul 15, 2011 14:55:54 GMT
Question about how long he was with us? he played a lot after war but scored a lot of goals in war leagues. Indyrs just did a bit ion him, seems like for me it didnt flow right, Did not know about his war heroics. Not important really, but the matches he was in remember a fast, energised forward who was always dangerous on the ball. Yes I was '37, then Ronski on the board is our other graybeard.
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ronski
Gerry Francis
I have some old QPR pictures how do you post them on this site.
Posts: 61
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Post by ronski on Jul 15, 2011 18:40:28 GMT
Best forward line for me was McEwan, Ramscar, Duggan Hattton Hartburn.
Never heard of Duggan Could you mean Fred Durant.
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Post by gramps on Jul 15, 2011 21:49:14 GMT
Best forward line for me was McEwan, Ramscar, Duggan Hattton Hartburn. Never heard of Duggan Could you mean Fred Durant. Ted Duggan, signed from Luton in 1949.
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Post by harlowranger on Jul 15, 2011 22:05:27 GMT
Enjoyed edition 4 gramps keep um coming and stay out the loft at weekend ! Ronski , Gramps and London having a 3 way conversation , theres some stories and knowledge in there , put us youngsters to shame!
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Post by londonranger on Jul 15, 2011 23:20:31 GMT
No Ronski Fred Durrant, where did I get the Duggan? The years fuzz up sometimes. Maybe it was Ted Duggan, Gramps let me think more.
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Post by londonranger on Jul 15, 2011 23:56:24 GMT
Ronski gramps correct Ted Duggan in 1949 and a Dudley, a fullback but meant Durrant.
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Post by gramps on Jul 17, 2011 7:30:06 GMT
Apologies for bumping this up but don't want to have a long search for it when my next edition is posted (maybe today but probably tomorrow).
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Post by scarletpimple on Jul 17, 2011 8:26:37 GMT
You have really started something here now gramps, this lot dont need much of an excuse to go on the pi$$ as it is.......... ;D ;D
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Post by gramps on Jul 17, 2011 11:35:52 GMT
OK, you talked me into it. Here's episode 5 The Old Days (5) A little humour I shall never forget a ‘game’ at LR when I was still a schoolboy. I cannot be sure just when it was but had to be sometime between 1948 and 1950. The charity match was a week after the season had finished – which was a blessing as will be seen at the end of this report. The teams? Comics United versus Ancient Lights. As the name suggests, Comics United was a team of comedians of that time and show biz people. Players included the likes of Nervo and Knox, Bud Flanagan and ………. can’t remember the others except that their centre forward was a little midget – the guy who used to be in ‘The Morton Frazer Harmonica Gang’. See picture at lindak53.webs.com/familyoccupations.htm . The Ancient Lights was a team of retired players and included the former Arsenal Scottish international Alex James who sadly died of Cancer in 1953 at the age of 51. Also in the team were former English international goalkeeper Harry Hibbs, Arsenal forward Cliff Bastin and others who, again, escape my memory. The comics won easily but nobody knew the score as something like thirty or forty goals were scored. At one stage the comics had about fifteen players on the pitch. The midget scored the most goals, several of which went into the net whilst Harry Hibbs was tied with rope to a goalpost. As the game approached its end a tractor appeared on the pitch with a plough behind it and drove the full length, ripping up the hallowed turf (which in those days was more mud than anything). Further play was suspended, the match was abandoned and a good laugh was had by all. An interesting serious byline of all this is that fitness standards in those days were not as exacting as they are today. Bastin was very deaf later in his career and Alex James was well known for his long, baggy shorts which he wore to conceal the ‘long johns’ he had to wear to help keep his legs warm as he had bad arthritis. Mark Lazarus was always a great character. Mark came from a large Jewish family and his brother was Lew Lazar, a top boxer. He played on the right wing and would always chase the ball, no matter what. I recall an occasion when his shorts were torn and he had taken them off to put on a new pair when the ball was passed to him. He hared off down the wing, shorts in hand, just managing to preserve his dignity. He did something similar on another occasion with only one boot on as the other had come off in a tackle. On another occasion he was standing by the touchline nearest the South Africa Road terrace and a defender was moving closer behind him. Thinking he had not noticed, someone in the crowd shouted “Watch him behind you, Mark.” Quick as a flash, Mark came back with “Watch him? He’s f*****g useless.” (Defender moves away looking sheepish.) That was our Mark – a real character. Now 77, the last I heard was that he was still running a haulage business in the Romford area. I am grateful to Harlow Ranger for drawing my attention to qprreport.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=print&thread=5426 in connection with a picture of Arthur Jefferson. Noticed on there a picture of Billy McEwan and Ted Reay in shirts which, although the picture is monochrome, were blue with white collars and sleeves. The club changed to those colours for a few games but there were a lot of complaints from the fans. They asked people over the tannoy to cheer for which shirt they preferred. Hoops - a massive roar. Blue with white collars and sleeves - virtual silence! The next game they went back to the hoops and it has stayed that way ever since. One or two other snippets to include in this slightly disjointed episode – trivia which has occurred to me as I am writing. Still on the subject of shirts, I seem to recollect my father telling me that at one time in his youth, Rangers played in red and white hoops. I have no way of knowing if this was true as the old chap tended to get things a bit wrong in his old age. Anybody know anything about this? It’s probably not common knowledge that Leslie Compton the Middlesex cricket wicket keeper and later Arsenal centre half, played twice for Rs as a guest in 1940, scoring two goals. For a good many years I played lawn bowls at a fairly high level and was pleased on a number of occasions to meet Leslie who was also very good at the game despite having a foot amputated in 1982, two years before his death, as a result of complications to his diabetes condition. More to come – watch this space.
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Post by gramps on Jul 18, 2011 16:44:43 GMT
BUMP!
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Post by Macmoish on Jul 18, 2011 16:56:05 GMT
Tis great stuff and we'll to ensure it doesn't get lost here
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Post by harlowranger on Jul 18, 2011 17:02:04 GMT
Did you listen to the Mark Lazurus interview on JNET radio Gramps?
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Post by Zamoraaaah on Jul 18, 2011 17:28:57 GMT
Great read Gramps.
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Post by gramps on Jul 18, 2011 17:59:44 GMT
Did you listen to the Mark Lazurus interview on JNET radio Gramps? No Harlow. Missed that, unfortunately.
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Post by gramps on Jul 18, 2011 18:03:38 GMT
Life is a tad busy for me at present. Will try to get another episode together during the next couple of days.
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Post by harlowranger on Jul 18, 2011 18:23:34 GMT
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Post by gramps on Jul 19, 2011 14:59:03 GMT
Many thanks Harlow - that's most kind. Spare time? I had more spare time when I was working!
Will listen to that soon.
(Hmmm, just realised that my reply has served to bump the thread to the top again so apologies to anybody who thought this was a new episode. It's not but will hopefully work on it shortly.)
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Post by gramps on Jul 20, 2011 11:41:13 GMT
The Old Days (6)
After the war
As I sat deliberating where to take this thread, the name of Alf Parkinson came to me. Alf was a wing half who played at inside forward without a lot of success when he first came to Loftus Road in 1946. He was perhaps best described as ‘steady’ without being spectacular. He stayed with the club until 1951 when he quit football in acrimonious circumstances. A new maximum wage of £20 a week for footballers came in at about that time (Wow! Big money!) but Alf was not offered the new terms so he called it a day and opened up a news-stand outside Mornington Crescent station on the Northern Line. As I worked at the time for the Post Office on the opposite corner I got to know Alf quite well. Sad really but it is just an example of how money was a major issue, even in those days.
1946/7 was about the time that I started attending Rangers games seriously. My father had returned from Burma and we spent many years, not only going to Loftus Road but also, some years after when I had passed my driving test and splashed out £20 for a Standard 8 car, going to away matches. This, however, jumps us prematurely to about 1957 so more about that period (and my limousine!) in a later episode. This was an era of mild confusion where clubs were looking to consolidating their position, buying players and, I suspect, regretting the departure of some of their wartime guest players back to their own clubs. One of our most important signings at that time was Cyril Hatton, a Notts County player, who had guested for us whilst stationed in London. His transfer fee of £1000 was our first four figure signing and this was followed up by the signing of Fred Durrant. I have spoken about Hatton previously and he and Fred Durrant, along with Bert Addinall, were part of a formidable forward line. In the 46/47 season the club were runners up in Division Three South to Cardiff City but not promoted as at that time it was a one up and one down situation. It was not, however, a close run thing as Cardiff were some nine points clear of us - and that was without Jay Bothroyd! The following season was outstanding for the club who were champions of the division and achieved promotion to Division Two. Attendances at that time were good and we had several gates in excess of 25,000. There were no major forays into the transfer market and our first season at higher level was far from good and 49/50 was even worse when we narrowly avoided relegation, coming third from bottom of the division. It was during the close season that the club entered the transfer market with something of a vengeance, recognizing that we had to do something to improve the situation. Probably the most devastating transfer for the fans, certainly for me, was that of our great favourite Reg Allen. He went to Manchester United for £11,000 which was a record fee for a goalkeeper at that time. That was indeed big money. Nobody, however, could blame Reg for going as we were not doing well and he obviously wanted to think about his career prospects. Also sold was Frank Neary who went to Millwall. Neary was something of an enigma at centre forward. He did rather lack consistency but for all that scored goals at a rate of something more than one every other game. One game that particularly stands out in my mind is the one against Leeds at home in 1949 which we drew 1-1. Rangers were awarded a penalty which Neary took. “That’s it,” we thought, “no way he will miss a spot kick”. Neary had an immensely powerful shot and many of his goals were scored from a distance. He blasted the ball low towards the right hand corner and the Leeds ‘keeper, Harry Searson, brought off what was in my opinion one of the best penalty saves I have ever seen. He punched the ball onto the inside of the post and caught it on the rebound. Somewhere I have a (not very good) photo of this from behind the goal. Will find it one day!
Anyway, I digress. With the money accumulated the club bought some half a dozen players including wingers Billy Waugh and Ernie Shepherd, Bobby Cameron (inside forward), Lewis Clayton (half back) and full backs John Poppitt and, of course, Tony Ingham about whom I don’t think I need say anything. I think his 555 appearances for the club and subsequent work behind the scenes speaks for itself. All these players gave good service and a particular favourite of mine was Ernie Shepherd, always outstanding on the left wing with a good scoring record.
This was some very astute purchasing on the part of Dave Mangnall and he used the funds he had accumulated to good effect. Worse times were, however, still to come, but more of that later.
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Post by gramps on Jul 20, 2011 11:44:11 GMT
I will get another episode on here as soon as I am able. Please bear with me as I am a touch distracted at present. A very close friend of mine is in hospital in London and undergoing surgery for a brain tumour tomorrow so it is proving a bit difficult to concentrate on other things to any great extent.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2011 11:57:23 GMT
Thanks gramps for all the history/information you have been posting.
I always look forward to looking at the message board every day anyway but when you have posted it is an added bonus.
Many thanks
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Post by gramps on Jul 20, 2011 12:01:04 GMT
Thank you Walter. You are very kind.
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Post by RoryTheRanger on Jul 20, 2011 12:14:30 GMT
Another great episode Gramps, you should write a book I hope everything turns out well with your friend.
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