|  Author | Topic: Ephraim's Role in the 25 (Read 670 times) |
bowranger
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|  | Ephraim's Role in the 25
« Thread Started on Sept 5, 2012, 3:22pm » | |
I know discussions about Hogan are pretty frequent but wondering what people thought about his inclusion in the 25? There's been some comments but just pooling thoughts here if that's alright!
I like Ephraim - good attitude, great core abilities in terms of speed, technique and so on. I've been one of the people who always naively believed each season he was going to break into the team and blossom but it's never really happened. He's obviously past the "promising youngster" age now and needs to deliver - and I am very intrigued as to why he's been included in the 25.
My feeling is that he could be great but we clearly havn't focused on bulking him up. His core problem is that he is far, far too lightweight and gets pushed off the ball really easily. It's a mystery to me why we havn't seen him pack on some upper body strength as it would surely help his game no end. With only 3 strikers, you'd think that a settled DJ Campbell, for example, as back up would be potentially more useful in the 25 as I just can't see Hogan getting a game.
All the same...he was used pre-season and whenever we loan him out we always end up retaining him. So what's going on with him then? Is Hughes' vocal faith in him going to be translated into game time? Or are we just hanging onto him for the future and giving him a place in the 25 to keep him settled?
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andrewqpr
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| | Re: Ephraim's Role in the 25
« Reply #1 on Sept 5, 2012, 3:34pm » | |
Be surprised to see him on the bench for a game
Not worth a place in the 25 when we are short of strikers
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RoryTheRanger
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| | Re: Ephraim's Role in the 25
« Reply #2 on Sept 5, 2012, 4:16pm » | |
Can't see how people can write him off despite never seeing him play in the Prem!!!
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bowranger
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| | Re: Ephraim's Role in the 25
« Reply #3 on Sept 5, 2012, 4:58pm » | |
Sept 5, 2012, 4:16pm, RoryTheRanger wrote:| Can't see how people can write him off despite never seeing him play in the Prem!!! |
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Kind of a spurious argument - I havn't seen most of the current Hartlepool or Yeovil squad play in the Prem either.
(Ignoring the fact he's had 2 league appearances in the Prem) we have seen him play repeatedly at Championship level and repeatedly looked a bit out of depth there too. On the basis that the standard's higher in the Prem, it's not a leap of logic to think that a player who could barely get a regular starting place in the Championship is unlikely to be starting in the league above.
Like I say, I like Hogan and I'm not writing him off - with coaching and bulking he could be decent for us I think. But I'm eager to know why people think he's been included.
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Jon Doeman
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elmermark
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| | Re: Ephraim's Role in the 25
« Reply #5 on Sept 5, 2012, 7:37pm » | |
Sept 5, 2012, 5:13pm, Jon Doeman wrote:
Sept 5, 2012, 3:34pm, andrewqpr wrote:Be surprised to see him on the bench for a game
Not worth a place in the 25 when we are short of strikers
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I agree Andy, won't even get on the bench, as they didn't replace HH, Hulse should have been put in. And no, I'm not joking  |
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Agree with all of that apart from Stinker Hulse!!! With all the midfield options we have I would have kept Helga as a back up to Zamora & either loaned or sold Hogan myself!!.........Can't see him making the squad even on the bench to be honest!! But maybe he'll play a game & surprise us all!!!
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andrewqpr
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| | Re: Ephraim's Role in the 25
« Reply #6 on Sept 5, 2012, 8:10pm » | |
Sept 5, 2012, 5:13pm, Jon Doeman wrote:
Sept 5, 2012, 3:34pm, andrewqpr wrote:Be surprised to see him on the bench for a game
Not worth a place in the 25 when we are short of strikers
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I agree Andy, won't even get on the bench, as they didn't replace HH, Hulse should have been put in. And no, I'm not joking |
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should we of tried to get Carroll on loan?
he may of choose us over West Ham
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elmermark
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| | Re: Ephraim's Role in the 25
« Reply #7 on Sept 5, 2012, 8:15pm » | |
Sept 5, 2012, 8:10pm, andrewqpr wrote:
Sept 5, 2012, 5:13pm, Jon Doeman wrote:
I agree Andy, won't even get on the bench, as they didn't replace HH, Hulse should have been put in. And no, I'm not joking |
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should we of tried to get Carroll on loan?
he may of choose us over West Ham |
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Yep he would have joined us & got injured just like he did with the SPAM but for us he would have been out for 12 weeks instead of 6 weeks for them!!! THE QPR CURSE!!!!
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maudesfishnchips
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| | Re: Ephraim's Role in the 25
« Reply #8 on Sept 5, 2012, 8:15pm » | |
hogan is your typical squad player, he can play left, right or centre midfield. he has also played as a forward.
sensible choice to have him in the 25.
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elmermark
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| | Re: Ephraim's Role in the 25
« Reply #9 on Sept 5, 2012, 8:28pm » | |
With Helga gone!!! I would prefer Hogan up front instead of Stinker Hulse!!!!
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| | Re: Ephraim's Role in the 25
« Reply #10 on Sept 5, 2012, 9:00pm » | |
Sept 5, 2012, 8:15pm, maudesfishnchips wrote:hogan is your typical squad player, he can play left, right or centre midfield. he has also played as a forward.
sensible choice to have him in the 25. |
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Can't be a presence up front, seems to me we only have one of them and he's injury prone.
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elmermark , he scored two the other night, maybe he's fit now, believe it or not he's a respected striker, who it looks like we'll be paying to do sweet fa.
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IMO it's no good for Hogan or us , at this stage of his career he needs to be playing. Otherwise what's it all about?
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elmermark
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| | Re: Ephraim's Role in the 25
« Reply #11 on Sept 5, 2012, 9:08pm » | |
Sept 5, 2012, 9:00pm, Jon Doeman wrote:
Sept 5, 2012, 8:15pm, maudesfishnchips wrote:hogan is your typical squad player, he can play left, right or centre midfield. he has also played as a forward.
sensible choice to have him in the 25. |
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Can't be a presence up front, seems to me we only have one of them and he's injury prone.
Last time I saw the match info in Hulse playing in a Prem match or anykind of compative match he commited more fouls in the match he played than just about every single player in the QPR squad!!! Would rather pay him what we pay him for doing sweet FA than have him anywhere near the 25 man squad & would rather have Hogan in it than Hulse anytime!!!.............Oh & Hulse was injured before we even signed him & injured during the time we didn't even play him if I recall!!!
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elmermark , he scored two the other night, maybe he's fit now, believe it or not he's a respected striker, who it looks like we'll be paying to do sweet fa.
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IMO it's no good for Hogan or us , at this stage of his career he needs to be playing. Otherwise what's it all about? |
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elmermark
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| | Re: Ephraim's Role in the 25
« Reply #12 on Sept 5, 2012, 9:08pm » | |
Sept 5, 2012, 9:00pm, Jon Doeman wrote:
Sept 5, 2012, 8:15pm, maudesfishnchips wrote:hogan is your typical squad player, he can play left, right or centre midfield. he has also played as a forward.
sensible choice to have him in the 25. |
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Can't be a presence up front, seems to me we only have one of them and he's injury prone.
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elmermark , he scored two the other night, maybe he's fit now, believe it or not he's a respected striker, who it looks like we'll be paying to do sweet fa.
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IMO it's no good for Hogan or us , at this stage of his career he needs to be playing. Otherwise what's it all about? |
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Last time I saw the match info in Hulse playing in a Prem match or any kind of competitive match he committed more fouls in the match he played than just about every single player in the QPR squad!!! Would rather pay him what we pay him for doing sweet FA than have him anywhere near the 25 man squad & would rather have Hogan in it than Hulse anytime!!!.............Oh & Hulse was injured about a minute after we even signed him & injured during that time even when we didn't even play him if I recall!!! I think he's a pile of "John Terry"!!! but thats just what I think!!!
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| | Re: Ephraim's Role in the 25
« Reply #15 on Sept 5, 2012, 9:16pm » | |
Actually I agree that we are light on strikers & as I've said in a few other post's I would have kept Helga & tried to off load Hogan & Hulse instead........!!!
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| | Re: Ephraim's Role in the 25
« Reply #17 on Sept 5, 2012, 9:22pm » | |
Yep!!!
Strange midfield size to the squad really!! & Helga would have been a much better player to keep than Hulse or Hogan!!! But hey its all done now!!!! Do wonder what poor Hogan will feel during this season as I doubt he'll even make the bench!!!!
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| | Re: Ephraim's Role in the 25
« Reply #18 on Sept 6, 2012, 5:33am » | |
Ephraim, = QPR's surprise talent that actually does well when given the chance. Do NOT write him off.
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| | Re: Ephraim's Role in the 25
« Reply #20 on Sept 6, 2012, 7:39am » | |
Well, he's good on Twitter.
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andrewqpr
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| | Re: Ephraim's Role in the 25
« Reply #21 on Sept 6, 2012, 7:42am » | |
Sept 5, 2012, 9:11pm, Jon Doeman wrote:Away at Villa was it?
I thought he did alright, Hughes messed up (again) taking him off. |
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you are correct
what was it you said before that game Jon
If Hulse is selected i'm a ...................  
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| | Re: Ephraim's Role in the 25
« Reply #22 on Sept 6, 2012, 7:44am » | |
I mean, who is he going to cover for? CM? Diakite, Derry, Faurlin, Granero, Park are ahead of him. Way way ahead - at least, in Hughes's system.
Flanks? There's even more competition there.
He needs to understand that the "mercy bench" isn't the best he can hope for. If he wants to actually play in the PL, he needs to start playing...somewhere. Anywhere! Even Joey gets that.
Making the 25 List isn't an achievement. For a player like him - it's a trap.
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| | Re: Ephraim's Role in the 25
« Reply #24 on Sept 6, 2012, 8:10am » | |
Hulse instead of Hogan in the 25? Do me lemon. I'd have a footballer over a donkey every day of the week.
Ephraim can play right across the midfield or as a striker, he's done all of those. This is one of his major problems as so many versatile players have found. He'd be in a better position fighting for particular position but that isn't the case.
He's a footballer, I like footballers, i also do not think he needs to bulk up as it's ability that counts now not muscle. Very tidy player that can fill in in so many positions.
That is why he is in the 25 and Hulse is off to dirty Leeds.
Another reason is the way Colin treated him last season. OK I know that is not justification but he deserves it in my opinion.
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alqpr81
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| | Re: Ephraim's Role in the 25
« Reply #25 on Sept 6, 2012, 8:44am » | |
Sept 6, 2012, 8:10am, cpr wrote:Hulse instead of Hogan in the 25? Do me lemon. I'd have a footballer over a donkey every day of the week.
Ephraim can play right across the midfield or as a striker, he's done all of those. This is one of his major problems as so many versatile players have found. He'd be in a better position fighting for particular position but that isn't the case.
He's a footballer, I like footballers, i also do not think he needs to bulk up as it's ability that counts now not muscle. Very tidy player that can fill in in so many positions.
That is why he is in the 25 and Hulse is off to dirty Leeds.
Another reason is the way Colin treated him last season. OK I know that is not justification but he deserves it in my opinion. |
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Bang on this is CPR! I rate Hogan as well, and whenever I've seen him he's looked pacey, keen and has worked very hard. He's also quite skillful, and whoever said he was out of his depth in the Championship needs to watch our promotion season DVD and see all the games he played in towards the start before Colin decided to leave him out.
He was always linking up well with Faurlin and Taarabt, quick intelligent play. I'd love to see him get a run out and I really don't see why he wont get some minutes...a player of his pace and ability could be a real impact on the wing, similar to Mackie (except Ephraim sometimes passes the ball instead of running into a cul-de-sac), for the last 15 minutes or so. I think that's where he'll be used.
Also, with regard to strikers, one of Adel's back up positions is up front, so with Hogan able to play there as well we'll be fine. At least until January you'd like to hope!
Hulse may have scored a couple in the reserves but that doesn't make him eligible. We're not even talking League 1 standard are we? Hulse was Warnock's worst signing - everyone makes them - and has done nothing at all to warrant a place in the 25. Ephraim has been with us for years, contributed a lot more than people give him credit for and will be quite a capable player for us in the Prem in my opinion.
Just let him prove it when given the opportunity before writing him off! I'm sure if it doesn't work out this season, then we'll give him the option to move on - but Hughes can clearly see the good in him, something NW never did, and that's a positive sign for me.
A lot of people cruelly wrote off Dyer, and weren't too pleasant about it either - like it was his fault someone did him in on the 1st day of the season - but he's been put back in by Hughes, and I think has looked pretty assured so far! In fairness Warnock did rate Dyer, and I still think it was a good decision to bring him in. We/he was just unlucky. But, like Hogan, I want to see them both given a proper chance before I cast negative judgement.
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bowranger
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| | Re: Ephraim's Role in the 25
« Reply #26 on Sept 6, 2012, 9:41am » | |
Sept 6, 2012, 8:44am, alqpr81 wrote:
Sept 6, 2012, 8:10am, cpr wrote:Hulse instead of Hogan in the 25? Do me lemon. I'd have a footballer over a donkey every day of the week.
Ephraim can play right across the midfield or as a striker, he's done all of those. This is one of his major problems as so many versatile players have found. He'd be in a better position fighting for particular position but that isn't the case.
He's a footballer, I like footballers, i also do not think he needs to bulk up as it's ability that counts now not muscle. Very tidy player that can fill in in so many positions.
That is why he is in the 25 and Hulse is off to dirty Leeds.
Another reason is the way Colin treated him last season. OK I know that is not justification but he deserves it in my opinion. |
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Bang on this is CPR! I rate Hogan as well, and whenever I've seen him he's looked pacey, keen and has worked very hard. He's also quite skillful, and whoever said he was out of his depth in the Championship needs to watch our promotion season DVD and see all the games he played in towards the start before Colin decided to leave him out.
He was always linking up well with Faurlin and Taarabt, quick intelligent play. I'd love to see him get a run out and I really don't see why he wont get some minutes...a player of his pace and ability could be a real impact on the wing, similar to Mackie (except Ephraim sometimes passes the ball instead of running into a cul-de-sac), for the last 15 minutes or so. I think that's where he'll be used.
Also, with regard to strikers, one of Adel's back up positions is up front, so with Hogan able to play there as well we'll be fine. At least until January you'd like to hope!
Hulse may have scored a couple in the reserves but that doesn't make him eligible. We're not even talking League 1 standard are we? Hulse was Warnock's worst signing - everyone makes them - and has done nothing at all to warrant a place in the 25. Ephraim has been with us for years, contributed a lot more than people give him credit for and will be quite a capable player for us in the Prem in my opinion.
Just let him prove it when given the opportunity before writing him off! I'm sure if it doesn't work out this season, then we'll give him the option to move on - but Hughes can clearly see the good in him, something NW never did, and that's a positive sign for me.
A lot of people cruelly wrote off Dyer, and weren't too pleasant about it either - like it was his fault someone did him in on the 1st day of the season - but he's been put back in by Hughes, and I think has looked pretty assured so far! In fairness Warnock did rate Dyer, and I still think it was a good decision to bring him in. We/he was just unlucky. But, like Hogan, I want to see them both given a proper chance before I cast negative judgement. |
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See this is why I find it so difficult to know what's going on with him. I agree with most of that - but what I don't get from a mangerial point of view is why he has repeatedly, in the championship and the prem, never been given a proper run of games to prove himself yet is always retained. The managerial implication is that they see him as promising but not good enough - I can't see what else it could be. Not saying i'm agree, but it seems to me that's what a lot of our managers have thought. I'm inclined to agree with a big part of what Sabas was saying - if he isn't playing regularly for us he could probably be playing regularly for someone else at a decent level. But like I say, we keep retaining him but not using him, which can't be good for his career really.
I don't think he would necessarily be out of his depth in the championship or maybe prem if given a proper run of games, maybe, but the point is that he hasn't been given one by a number of managers. It's weird - why send him out on loan, retain him but not play him?
To me, if we've got such a big amount of midfield squad players, Hughes must really see something in him to keep him here but I can't see him getting a game either unless there's a huge amount of injuries. So yeah, I just don't get it! Would be nice to see him get a run.
Also, still think he could stand to put on some bulk. Not to change his style of play, just to give him a bit more resilience, I think he'd be a lot better for it. Reminds me of Hoilett in a playing style way - attacking midfielder and very nippy but he doesn't get knocked off the ball because he's got the strength to stand up to shoulder barging etc. I think that's a weakness in Hogan's game - he's got all the potential skills but seems too lightweight to get away with showcasing them because he rarely gets enough time on the ball.
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Lonegunmen
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| | Re: Ephraim's Role in the 25
« Reply #27 on Sept 6, 2012, 10:23am » | |
Dyer did well against City and looked quite comfortable with it.
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bowranger
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| | Re: Ephraim's Role in the 25
« Reply #28 on Sept 6, 2012, 10:26am » | |
Sept 6, 2012, 10:23am, Lonegunmen wrote:| Dyer did well against City and looked quite comfortable with it. |
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True, and he's certainly a lot pacier than I remember. He looks full of confidence and eager to take players on which is great.
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| | Re: Ephraim's Role in the 25
« Reply #29 on Sept 6, 2012, 10:29am » | |
Like having a fresh signing - along with Faurlin too.
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