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Post by gramps on Jul 20, 2011 14:03:28 GMT
Another great episode Gramps, you should write a book I hope everything turns out well with your friend. Thanks Rory on both counts. Not sure about the book though.
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Post by Macmoish on Jul 20, 2011 14:10:29 GMT
Well certainly at some point we're going to compile all your recollections, Gramps (or even better, if you do the compilation - in addition to your regular) and the moderators will lock it so just you can add to it as and when...
SOMEWHERE in the QPR Report archives are also London's recollections...which we'll have to find/
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Post by gramps on Jul 20, 2011 14:30:37 GMT
Well certainly at some point we're going to compile all your recollections, Gramps (or even better, if you do the compilation - in addition to your regular) Yes, that should not be a problem.
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Post by gramps on Jul 22, 2011 12:01:42 GMT
Sorry about unashamedly bumping this again but I keep losing track of it. Another episode should be on the way soon - working on it between watching the test match.
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Post by gramps on Jul 22, 2011 13:24:52 GMT
Wow! Thanks for the sticky. That's appreciated.
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Post by 0hwestlondon on Jul 22, 2011 20:03:49 GMT
Thanks Gramps I like the bit about The R's! When I started going in the 60's there was a lot of "Come on MY team". Have not heard that since (except from me) or by any other teams fans. my dad says that as well terry, i thought it was just his own thing, and gramps brilliant storys love that sort of stuff, people like you are what make our club special, never could rich billionaires compare as there here today gone tomorrow, where as good people like yourself with some class about them are permanent.
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Post by 56vespanvic on Jul 22, 2011 21:16:41 GMT
Has Gramps kicked the bucket?
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Post by gramps on Jul 22, 2011 21:45:50 GMT
Has Gramps kicked the bucket? I haven't got the energy these days to kick buckets! I'm still around and the next episode will hopefully be appearing in the next 48 hours or so. Sometimes we top authors get writers block!
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Post by Macmoish on Jul 23, 2011 7:31:33 GMT
Now unfortunately I have to unsticky this (and some others also) as too many stickies...But keep bumping...Also have a link to this thread in the "Interviews" part of this board
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Post by gramps on Jul 26, 2011 12:41:36 GMT
The Old Days (7)
A bit more about the Forties and into the Fifties
I am really trying very hard to keep all this in some sort of chronological order but a variety of memories keep coming back so please forgive me if this thread sometimes becomes a bit disjointed and occasionally “non-Rs.”
A few things I have omitted to mention about the latter part of the forties. Foremost of these has to be season 1947/48 when we were promoted and I apologise for not thinking to mention in my last episode our cup run that year. We beat Gillingham (at that time Southern League Champions), Stoke (Div. 1) and Luton (Div. 2) to get into the sixth round where we came up against Derby County who were at that time a First Division club to be much feared. We were drawn at home and the game, played in front of something over 28,000 supporters, was a thriller. Although we were the underdogs going into the match, this was by no means reflected on the pitch. Johnny Hartburn was our scorer in a 1-1 draw. Although we left the ground knowing that we would not have much of a chance in the replay, many of us were quietly hopeful. It was not to be, however, and we were totally destroyed 5-0. I was just twelve years old at the time and I remember sitting at home crying when I heard the result.
In 1949 Rangers signed Tommy Best who was one of the first black footballers to play for a league club. I remember this being headline news in several of the Sunday papers with one or two comments about the colour of his skin which, although innocent enough at the time, would probably have caused offence in later years. He didn’t stay long and only scored something like three goals in a dozen or so games.
Another event was when, having toured Turkey at the end of the decade, Rangers played a home friendly match subsequently against Galatasaray who are now a far more powerful club than they were in those days. I recall that R’s swamped them and, unless my shaky memory is playing me up again, I think we ran out winners 5-0. I wonder if any of our older members saw this game and can fill in any of the details. (My thanks to Bushman who has later advised me that we won 4-1. This game was played on 14th September 1950).
Non-QPR stuff. Two players I have seen play during my lifetime who I admired greatly were Sir Stanley Matthews and Horatio (Raich) Carter.
Matthews is legendary although I don’t recall him ever playing against the Rs. He played his last England game at the age of 42 and put his fitness down to the fact that he was a vegetarian and teetotaler. The records show that his last competitive game was in 1985 when he played a match in Brazil at the age of 70 and tore a cartilage. He later described this in his autobiography as "A promising career cut tragically short." Another interesting point about his career is that in over 700 games he was never booked or sent off – a true gentleman and sportsman. Any football supporter who never saw him play has indeed missed the experience of a lifetime. There is plenty of information about him online for those who care to look it up and I make no apologies for quoting from some of those sources.
I briefly mention Raich Carter simply because I did have the privilege of seeing him play against us for Hull City on a few occasions and he invariably tied our defence up in knots. He was an England regular in the forties and the amazing thing about him is that he seldom seemed to run anywhere. He just strolled but had an amazing knack of being in just the right position at the right time. Truly a great player in my book.
As I have already mentioned, the season 1949/50 was not a very good one for us and we ended up third from the bottom of Division Two. New players had been bought to strengthen the squad but the team didn’t get their act together straight away. The following season saw no great changes in personnel and we finished in a slightly more comfortable position at seventh from last with 71 goals in the ‘for’ column which was more than four of the top six clubs that season. Unfortunately the defence ‘leaked’ 82 goals. 48 of our goals scored came from just three players, Bert Addinall, Cyril Hatton and winger Ernie Shepherd. Due to three wins in our last four games, there was every reason to hope that things were looking up.
Season 51/52 started with a home win against West Ham followed by two draws then at one stage towards the end of the year we went something like 13 games with only one win, a few draws but mostly defeats. The season became a total nightmare and we lost games which, on paper, were certain wins – so much for paper! For all this, my father and I continued to go to all the home games, often setting out muttering things like “I don’t know why we bother”. To say that morale was low would be a gross understatement. The final nightmare scenario was that we ended up bottom of the division with just 34 points; one additional win during the year would possibly have saved us as we were only two points short of staying up. This was at a time when it was two points for a win and one for a draw. So we were relegated back to Division Three South after only four years – welcome home!
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Post by RoryTheRanger on Jul 26, 2011 12:47:55 GMT
Another fantastic episode, I look forward to the next one
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Post by Macmoish on Jul 26, 2011 12:51:06 GMT
Great stuff, Gamps (And don't apologize. It's great - and when you "republish"your posts, putting them altogether, can be chronological. For now, just post as and when you want, re whatever period you want.
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Post by gramps on Jul 26, 2011 12:58:06 GMT
Thanks for the encouragement, guys. Sorry that the episodes may not be as close together as I would like but the old brain box is working overtime and recall is not too easy these days. Also I am very busy with a number of projects at present. I am fortunately blessed with a lot of friends about my own age but without computer ability who are always saying to me "John, could you possibly............" or "Is there any chance you can find time to.............." and so on. Add to this the fact that I am on committees in my home town and I sometimes wish I was back at work where I had more time to spare!
Never fear, the next episode has been started!
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Post by londonranger on Jul 26, 2011 13:39:01 GMT
Yes a nightmare, and Reg going to Man city for record fee sealed the nightmare.
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Post by gramps on Jul 26, 2011 15:01:14 GMT
Man U, LR, Man U.
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Post by thorstein on Jul 26, 2011 17:50:53 GMT
Fantastic Gramps U remember more than I do at half the age. Not sure if that says more about me excelent stories, keap'em coming.
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Post by gramps on Jul 26, 2011 17:55:25 GMT
Thanks thorstein. Appreciate your comments. Still churning my memories around and half way through the next episode. Thinking of you all in Norway.
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Post by gramps on Jul 27, 2011 15:55:10 GMT
Next episode will be up tomorrow (Thursday). Hope you don't mind waiting. We writers get very temperamental, you know.
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Post by gramps on Jul 28, 2011 9:37:10 GMT
The Old Days (8)
Onwards but not necessarily upwards…….
So here we are again, in 1952 and back in the Third Division South following a brief excursion into the upper echelons. Ever the optimists, we knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was bound to be a much easier time for us and that we would bounce back up ………………. wouldn’t we? Dave Mangnall, our manager for something like eight years had been a good servant to the club both in that capacity and previously as a centre forward scoring 99 goals in about 130 games; (I think we could do with a striker of that calibre now). He decided that it was time to retire and was replaced by Jack Taylor who came to us from Weymouth where he had been player-manager. He made some shrewd purchases, mainly from the north of the country (he was a Yorkshireman – well, somebody has to be, I suppose!) and also from non-league clubs but these did not have any real impact on our results.
We started dreadfully, only drawing three and losing two of our first five games of the season. It was at the end of this season (1953) that we said farewell to two of our particularly faithful club servants. Bert Addinall (8 years) and Cyril Hatton (11 years) departed for pastures new. Both were in their 30s and were losing their goal touch although during their service with us they had scored in the region of 170 goals for the club between them. Following this bad start it was hoped that four wins in six games would change our fortunes but this was not to be and performances and results were abysmal, winning only 12 games out of 46 and finishing fifth from the bottom of the division. Attendances were dropping rapidly and matters were not helped by a first round defeat in the FA cup to Shrewsbury Town after two 2-2 draws (the second one after extra time) and a 4-1 defeat on a neutral ground (Villa Park). As a matter of interest, Shrewsbury finished below us in the division.
I should point out that in those days there was no fourth division but two third divisions, one for the north and one for the south. Therefore there was no relegation but the bottom teams in each of these divisions were, theoretically, thrown out of the League and had to seek re-election. This was voted on by all the League clubs and it was rare for such re-election not to be granted despite the fact that Walsall for three consecutive years were bottom twice and one up from bottom once. It was not until 1958 that the two third divisions were amalgamated and a fourth division formed which meant, of course, far more match travelling for every team in the lower echelons (and their supporters). The transition was made by the bottom twelve teams from the two third divisions being ‘relegated’ to form the new fourth division. Take it from me that season 1957/58 was great fun – but more of that in a later episode.
If I may scroll back a little, it was in 1951 that we signed Conway Smith, an inside forward, from Huddersfield Town. Conway was one of Dave Magnall’s most shrewd signings in my opinion. He did not have the best of ball skills but he did possess one of the most powerful shots I have seen in football. He would have a go at goal as soon as the ball was at his feet and scored in his first three matches for us. In the five years he spent with QPR he was top scorer every season and on his departure to Halifax Town had scored 83 league and cup goals in 181 matches. I well remember on one occasion Conway hit the ball so hard from relatively close in that the sheer power almost took the goalkeeper into the net with it!
The beginning of season 53/54 saw us as the first West London club to install floodlights which were officially turned on at a friendly match with Arsenal. I was there but have no recollection of the score. There were two notable transfers in – those of Peter Angell and George Petchey who both went on to play many times for the club. As I recall, both Angell and Petchey started in the forward line but developed into very good wing-halves. Angell went on to play more than 450 games for the club and Petchey more than 200. For some reason a decision was made to change the team strip and games were played in white shirts and blue shorts. I am not sure how long those colours remained because in January of 1994 I joined the R.A.F. and was shipped off to Germany in double quick time, where I spent the next two and a half years. All I know is that when I came back at the end of 1956 the hoops were back – thank goodness. My observations on these years, therefore, are taken more from the archives than personal experience. Football news in those days usually came a bit late for those of us stationed outside this country. There was no British TV outside the UK; satellite had not, of course come into being so we just got basic results over the British Forces Network and precious little else other than word of mouth (much of which turned out to be ‘wind-ups’ from mates).
One good thing about this season was that by coincidence we were destined again to play Shrewsbury in the first round of the F.A. Cup. This time R’s won at their first attempt by 2-0. In the second round we drew 1-1 at home to Nuneaton Borough then won the replay 2-1 only to go out at home in round three 0-1 to Port Vale. There was little improvement in performances in the league and we ended up eighteenth of 24 clubs in the division thanks mainly to winning four of our last five games.
To be continued …………………..
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Post by gramps on Jul 28, 2011 12:11:23 GMT
Next one should be ready by or at the weekend, guys.
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Post by Bushman on Jul 28, 2011 12:45:00 GMT
The Old Days (8) Onwards but not necessarily upwards……. So here we are again, in 1952 and back in the Third Division South following a brief excursion into the upper echelons. Ever the optimists, we knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was bound to be a much easier time for us and that we would bounce back up ………………. wouldn’t we? Dave Mangnall, our manager for something like eight years had been a good servant to the club both in that capacity and previously as a centre forward scoring 99 goals in about 130 games; (I think we could do with a striker of that calibre now). He decided that it was time to retire and was replaced by Jack Taylor who came to us from Weymouth where he had been player-manager. He made some shrewd purchases, mainly from the north of the country (he was a Yorkshireman – well, somebody has to be, I suppose!) and also from non-league clubs but these did not have any real impact on our results. We started dreadfully, only drawing three and losing two of our first five games of the season. It was at the end of this season (1953) that we said farewell to two of our particularly faithful club servants. Bert Addinall (8 years) and Cyril Hatton (11 years) departed for pastures new. Both were in their 30s and were losing their goal touch although during their service with us they had scored in the region of 170 goals for the club between them. Following this bad start it was hoped that four wins in six games would change our fortunes but this was not to be and performances and results were abysmal, winning only 12 games out of 46 and finishing fifth from the bottom of the division. Attendances were dropping rapidly and matters were not helped by a first round defeat in the FA cup to Shrewsbury Town after two 2-2 draws (the second one after extra time) and a 4-1 defeat on a neutral ground (Villa Park). As a matter of interest, Shrewsbury finished below us in the division. I should point out that in those days there was no fourth division but two third divisions, one for the north and one for the south. Therefore there was no relegation but the bottom teams in each of these divisions were, theoretically, thrown out of the League and had to seek re-election. This was voted on by all the League clubs and it was rare for such re-election not to be granted despite the fact that Walsall for three consecutive years were bottom twice and one up from bottom once. It was not until 1958 that the two third divisions were amalgamated and a fourth division formed which meant, of course, far more match travelling for every team in the lower echelons (and their supporters). The transition was made by the bottom twelve teams from the two third divisions being ‘relegated’ to form the new fourth division. Take it from me that season 1957/58 was great fun – but more of that in a later episode. If I may scroll back a little, it was in 1951 that we signed Conway Smith, an inside forward, from Huddersfield Town. Conway was one of Dave Magnall’s most shrewd signings in my opinion. He did not have the best of ball skills but he did possess one of the most powerful shots I have seen in football. He would have a go at goal as soon as the ball was at his feet and scored in his first three matches for us. In the five years he spent with QPR he was top scorer every season and on his departure to Halifax Town had scored 83 league and cup goals in 181 matches. I well remember on one occasion Conway hit the ball so hard from relatively close in that the sheer power almost took the goalkeeper into the net with it! The beginning of season 53/54 saw us as the first West London club to install floodlights which were officially turned on at a friendly match with Arsenal. I was there but have no recollection of the score. There were two notable transfers in – those of Peter Angell and George Petchey who both went on to play many times for the club. As I recall, both Angell and Petchey started in the forward line but developed into very good wing-halves. Angell went on to play more than 450 games for the club and Petchey more than 200. For some reason a decision was made to change the team strip and games were played in white shirts and blue shorts. I am not sure how long those colours remained because in January of 1994 I joined the R.A.F. and was shipped off to Germany in double quick time, where I spent the next two and a half years. All I know is that when I came back at the end of 1956 the hoops were back – thank goodness. My observations on these years, therefore, are taken more from the archives than personal experience. Football news in those days usually came a bit late for those of us stationed outside this country. There was no British TV outside the UK; satellite had not, of course come into being so we just got basic results over the British Forces Network and precious little else other than word of mouth (much of which turned out to be ‘wind-ups’ from mates). One good thing about this season was that by coincidence we were destined again to play Shrewsbury in the first round of the F.A. Cup. This time R’s won at their first attempt by 2-0. In the second round we drew 1-1 at home to Nuneaton Borough then won the replay 2-1 only to go out at home in round three 0-1 to Port Vale. There was little improvement in performances in the league and we ended up eighteenth of 24 clubs in the division thanks mainly to winning four of our last five games. To be continued …………………..
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Post by londonranger on Jul 28, 2011 12:51:08 GMT
Yes Man U Gramps, thats why I dont do an old days magazine. I cant even remember the 5th of November.
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Post by londonranger on Jul 28, 2011 12:54:09 GMT
Yes, I knew someone went to Man C. Which had to be Rodnee, If im wrong there, Ill check everything before I put it up.
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Post by gramps on Jul 28, 2011 15:13:40 GMT
Can confirm that London. Was definitely Rodneeeeee who went to Man. C.
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Post by gramps on Jul 28, 2011 18:27:56 GMT
By the way I forgot to thank you for those pics, Bushman. I remember Pat Kirkwood kicking off; one very sexy lady.
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Post by Bushman on Jul 28, 2011 18:39:30 GMT
By the way I forgot to thank you for those pics, Bushman. I remember Pat Kirkwood kicking off; one very sexy lady. Welcome mate
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Post by 0hwestlondon on Jul 28, 2011 23:03:56 GMT
top stuff gramps, i look forward to more story"s, what were the players like in them day"s? not aloof and up there own arses like many today i hope.
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Post by gramps on Jul 29, 2011 9:56:49 GMT
Totally the opposite, mate. They were pretty ordinary blokes like you and me. You know how close we are to the pitch and players would often talk to the fans when now involved directly in the play. My mate Bill and I used to go round to the dressing rooms after the game and the players would stop on their way out and ask if you enjoyed the game. You could ask them questions and they would answer and have a yarn with you.
In the very early days I have even seen players come out of the dressing room and set off home on their pushbikes! Yes, truly. Things were very different then.
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Post by Bushman on Jul 29, 2011 10:12:22 GMT
Totally the opposite, mate. They were pretty ordinary blokes like you and me. You know how close we are to the pitch and players would often talk to the fans when now involved directly in the play. My mate Bill and I used to go round to the dressing rooms after the game and the players would stop on their way out and ask if you enjoyed the game. You could ask them questions and they would answer and have a yarn with you. In the very early days I have even seen players come out of the dressing room and set off home on their pushbikes! Yes, truly. Things were very different then. I grew up knowing a lot of the old school Rangers players after they had retired from the game and had gone on to other things. Bert "Smudger" Smith & Arthur Jefferson for example.
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Post by gramps on Jul 29, 2011 10:48:37 GMT
As mentioned in an earlier episode, I got to know Alf Parkinson pretty well but no other players as we moved away from the Bush before the outbreak of war. Alf was always very bitter about not being offered the new £20 maximum wage when it was introduced and quit the club on the spot. Interesting that some players these days get upset if offered 'only' a thousand times that much a week.
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