Post by QPR Report on Nov 1, 2009 13:11:27 GMT
Sky Sports
One Game, one panel
The Kick It Out panel answer your questions
Last updated: 26th October 2009
To mark its One Game One Community week, the Kick It Out campaign put together an expert panel to answer YOUR questions.
Premier League midfielder Geovanni, Kick It Out ambassador and former Chelsea, Celtic and Pisa star Paul Elliott, comedian and writer David Baddiel and leading football journalist Henry Winter, were all waiting for your queries.
They came in thick and fast on all manner of aspects of racism in football: from grassroots problems, to punishments to the lack of black manager's in our game today.
The panel did not hold back either, with Baddiel expressing some strong views on anti-Semitism, Winter revealing some shocking scenes on his visits to Second World War concentration camps and Elliott concerned at that lack of black managers in England.
As a relative newcomer to English football, Brazilian Geovanni did offer some hope by highlighting the profile of Kick It Out in our game.
But as you will see from the answers below, the panel all agree there is still plenty of work left to do...
The Kick It Out campaign is highly-visible in the professional leagues, do you think it is visible enough and active enough at grassroots level? And do you think it's more important to invest time in professional leagues or grassroots?Adam Sibley, Plymouth fan
GEOVANNI: I have been really impressed with the Kick It Out campaign since arriving in England, and it has clearly had an impact on the sport in this country. I know that at lower levels, it is harder to get the message across, but it's always important to make sure everyone is on the right track.
ELLIOTT: I definitely feel that Kick It Out has a very clear presence at grassroots level. The campaign awards grants to a number of grassroots clubs and community groups every year, and offers support to those individuals who have been victims of discrimination. It's hard to prioritise one area over another - and I don't see that we should necessarily have to.
There are many cultural reasons why racism still exists in football, but as long as the game attracts a minority of small-minded individuals bent on using football for their own racist agendas - we'll never fully eradicate it from football. We have made massive strides in the UK in recent years especially when comparing us to Spain for example. Racism is still prevalent in our society, in order to get rid of racism in sport I think we should start with confronting it in our society first? Only then can you lay a solid foundation for confronting it in sport, and especially football. What does the panel think? Andrew Harding, Leicester City fan
ELLIOTT: Whilst you make some very important points Andrew, we cannot afford to have a defeatist attitude towards the issues, and the progress that has been made should encourage us and give us hope. The UK certainly leads the way on the issue within Europe, but recent punishments dished out to European sides will make people sit up and take notice.
WINTER: Football provides a high-profile platform for showing that racism is unacceptable. I will never forget walking out of Mestalla, after Arsenal had played Valencia, and bumping into Patrick Vieira, who was furious with the racist abuse he had endured. Mestalla has a nasty pocket of racists in one corner. All the reporters wrote up Vieira's complaint and called on Uefa to act. Valencia got a tiny fine. Fortunately, Uefa, under Michel Platini, now take a stronger line. But the real battleground should be in schools. Only by educating people can racism be eradicated.
My own club Lincoln City became embroiled in a race row with Kettering Town last season, a case that went to court and ended in a mans acquittal. However Kettering felt that they deserved an apology as they became labelled as the 'race row' club. How can we deal with a club reputation being tarnished by one individual? Gary Hutchinson, Lincoln fan
WINTER: Ban the individual for life. From all grounds. However much embarrassment the individual has caused, a clubs reaction at least highlights its stance.
I've been watching lower league Football in this country for nearly 20 years and I've not experienced much in terms of racism. That's not to say it still doesn't go on but I think compared to clubs on the continent it's not really a major issue. I would like to ask do you think FIFA or Uefa should ban the clubs or countries that are found guilty of racist chanting? Or even dock them points? I can't see how handing out a fine like Croatia were given is a punishment - nor is playing a game behind closed doors. Also, a question for mainly Paul Elliott and Geovanni who has obviously played in various countries: How does the racism issue in this country compare with abroad? And do foreign players plying their trade in Britain see it as a big problem here? Many Thanks, Jon Green, Gillingham fan
WINTER: Points deduction are the only punishment clubs take seriously. Spain have a problem but what do you do about their national team? I was in Madrid when Shaun Wright-Phillips was racially abused during an international. The Spanish FA were fined a tiny amount and showed little contrition. For national teams, stadium closure is the only way. For clubs, points deduction.
ELLIOTT: The recent actions of UEFA are a start, and we hope that FIFA will look to follow suit in the future. As you say, the punishments meted out to the likes of Croatia are not a deterrent, and it's important that a precedent is set should such incidents continue to occur. Having played in three different countries during my career, I can say that, first of all, the differences in culture and attitude towards minorities in Italy differs hugely when compared to England and Scotland. I encountered issues in all three countries, but I know without a shadow of a doubt that the problem has improved over here. I'm sure it also has in Italy, but the problems Mario Balotelli currently faces suggest they still have some way to go.
GEOVANNI: England is far ahead of some of the other countries I have played in, and the main difference is how seriously they take the issue. Spain in particular has had problems with racism. I hope we can help set an example in England to help them take steps to kicking it out.
What do you feel is a fitting punishment for any club/country whose fans are found guilty of racial abuse? Jon Jerome
BADDIEL: Well, I think the first thing is that clubs, or individual country's associations, have to be very strongly encouraged to deal with the problem themselves, rather than imposing the punishment from outside. If the club fails to do so, they should be fined. But it seems to me it's easy enough for clubs, most of whom have a lot of CCTV around the grounds now, to isolate the worst offenders and ban them. And if they aren't doing that, why not? The issue of countries is a bit harder as I don't know if you can fine a country... but certainly I think FIFA should think about withdrawing places in major competitions to any country who's fans are repeatedly heard chanting racist abuse.
ELLIOTT: There's no one answer to this question I'm afraid, and each circumstance is different, but the main constant has to be that the punishments are significant and a legitimate deterrent to further incidents.
As a member of the Jewish community, I have been particularly affected by anti-Semitism in football. Sadly, chants which refer to the Holocaust and the Nazi gas chambers have become increasingly frequent particularly at games involving Tottenham Hotspur (owing to their large Jewish support). Isn't it time that our football stadiums gave stewards the capacity to identify and penalise those who target others for racial abuse? Shouldn't we have a zero tolerance approach which would ban any such offender from every football stadium in the UK (or even in Europe). We need more effective monitoring and harsher punishments. Mark Frazer
BADDIEL: Well, yes I believe this too. With my brother I have written a short film, called The Y-word, for Kick Racism Out of Football, which tries to address this subject. Anti-Semitism is the forgotten racism in football - partly because of the Tottenham thing, where Tottenham fans claim they are chanting the Y-word affectionately - but that fails to address the fact that opposing fans shout it back aggressively, that it often shades into straightforward anti-Semitism that's nothing to do with Tottenham. But most importantly, in a zero tolerance culture, race-hate words can't be used affectionately: consider if a club was chanting the N-word... it's time for it to stop.
HENRY: I have been to Birkenau-Auschwitz three times with England fans (during internationals v Poland in nearby Katowice) and the first time, three fans were drinking beer in the ovens, a truly shocking sight. Since then, there's been a definite improvement in behaviour during visits, which is encouraging, but there is clearly a problem in English football. It doesn't just affect Spurs. Roman Abramovich gets it. Again, there should be a life ban from all grounds for any one found guilty of such chanting.
I hate to bring the subject up, but now John Barnes has gone, there are a severe lack of black coaches in the game. Is this something that should be addressed or is it a question of time for the up-and-coming generation to drift through? Do the panel think this is a huge problem - and do they think black coaches, as has been said in the past, are discriminated against when it comes to getting jobs? Bob Smith
ELLIOTT: Recently, I've read articles suggesting that football follows the path of the NFL in the US, where the 'Rooney Rule' dictates that a minority candidate must be interviewed for every coaching role. There are a number of obstacles standing in the way of this idea being implemented over here, but I definitely feel that something needs to be done. Two permanent black managers from 92 clubs is unacceptable
WINTER: Black managers have to be there on ability alone. Anything else is tokenism. Paul Ince will rise up again as a manager because he has the hunger and ability. The glass ceiling will be broken through, particularly as some of the old-school chairman are leaving the game.
BADDIEL: I think, since there are a lot more black players now then when John Barnes was playing, we should see in the future a lot more black managers, which would be a good thing. I'm sure there is some discrimination - some of it unconscious - but I also think that we shouldn't forgot how quickly managers get sacked, anyway.
GEOVANNI: I know that when I retire I would hope that I would get offered opportunities based on my ability rather than the colour of my skin. It is strange that there are so few black coaches, especially when England has such a diverse culture. Perhaps in the next few years that situation will change, but if not, then a solution should be found.
www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12193_5653704,00.html
One Game, one panel
The Kick It Out panel answer your questions
Last updated: 26th October 2009
To mark its One Game One Community week, the Kick It Out campaign put together an expert panel to answer YOUR questions.
Premier League midfielder Geovanni, Kick It Out ambassador and former Chelsea, Celtic and Pisa star Paul Elliott, comedian and writer David Baddiel and leading football journalist Henry Winter, were all waiting for your queries.
They came in thick and fast on all manner of aspects of racism in football: from grassroots problems, to punishments to the lack of black manager's in our game today.
The panel did not hold back either, with Baddiel expressing some strong views on anti-Semitism, Winter revealing some shocking scenes on his visits to Second World War concentration camps and Elliott concerned at that lack of black managers in England.
As a relative newcomer to English football, Brazilian Geovanni did offer some hope by highlighting the profile of Kick It Out in our game.
But as you will see from the answers below, the panel all agree there is still plenty of work left to do...
The Kick It Out campaign is highly-visible in the professional leagues, do you think it is visible enough and active enough at grassroots level? And do you think it's more important to invest time in professional leagues or grassroots?Adam Sibley, Plymouth fan
GEOVANNI: I have been really impressed with the Kick It Out campaign since arriving in England, and it has clearly had an impact on the sport in this country. I know that at lower levels, it is harder to get the message across, but it's always important to make sure everyone is on the right track.
ELLIOTT: I definitely feel that Kick It Out has a very clear presence at grassroots level. The campaign awards grants to a number of grassroots clubs and community groups every year, and offers support to those individuals who have been victims of discrimination. It's hard to prioritise one area over another - and I don't see that we should necessarily have to.
There are many cultural reasons why racism still exists in football, but as long as the game attracts a minority of small-minded individuals bent on using football for their own racist agendas - we'll never fully eradicate it from football. We have made massive strides in the UK in recent years especially when comparing us to Spain for example. Racism is still prevalent in our society, in order to get rid of racism in sport I think we should start with confronting it in our society first? Only then can you lay a solid foundation for confronting it in sport, and especially football. What does the panel think? Andrew Harding, Leicester City fan
ELLIOTT: Whilst you make some very important points Andrew, we cannot afford to have a defeatist attitude towards the issues, and the progress that has been made should encourage us and give us hope. The UK certainly leads the way on the issue within Europe, but recent punishments dished out to European sides will make people sit up and take notice.
WINTER: Football provides a high-profile platform for showing that racism is unacceptable. I will never forget walking out of Mestalla, after Arsenal had played Valencia, and bumping into Patrick Vieira, who was furious with the racist abuse he had endured. Mestalla has a nasty pocket of racists in one corner. All the reporters wrote up Vieira's complaint and called on Uefa to act. Valencia got a tiny fine. Fortunately, Uefa, under Michel Platini, now take a stronger line. But the real battleground should be in schools. Only by educating people can racism be eradicated.
My own club Lincoln City became embroiled in a race row with Kettering Town last season, a case that went to court and ended in a mans acquittal. However Kettering felt that they deserved an apology as they became labelled as the 'race row' club. How can we deal with a club reputation being tarnished by one individual? Gary Hutchinson, Lincoln fan
WINTER: Ban the individual for life. From all grounds. However much embarrassment the individual has caused, a clubs reaction at least highlights its stance.
I've been watching lower league Football in this country for nearly 20 years and I've not experienced much in terms of racism. That's not to say it still doesn't go on but I think compared to clubs on the continent it's not really a major issue. I would like to ask do you think FIFA or Uefa should ban the clubs or countries that are found guilty of racist chanting? Or even dock them points? I can't see how handing out a fine like Croatia were given is a punishment - nor is playing a game behind closed doors. Also, a question for mainly Paul Elliott and Geovanni who has obviously played in various countries: How does the racism issue in this country compare with abroad? And do foreign players plying their trade in Britain see it as a big problem here? Many Thanks, Jon Green, Gillingham fan
WINTER: Points deduction are the only punishment clubs take seriously. Spain have a problem but what do you do about their national team? I was in Madrid when Shaun Wright-Phillips was racially abused during an international. The Spanish FA were fined a tiny amount and showed little contrition. For national teams, stadium closure is the only way. For clubs, points deduction.
ELLIOTT: The recent actions of UEFA are a start, and we hope that FIFA will look to follow suit in the future. As you say, the punishments meted out to the likes of Croatia are not a deterrent, and it's important that a precedent is set should such incidents continue to occur. Having played in three different countries during my career, I can say that, first of all, the differences in culture and attitude towards minorities in Italy differs hugely when compared to England and Scotland. I encountered issues in all three countries, but I know without a shadow of a doubt that the problem has improved over here. I'm sure it also has in Italy, but the problems Mario Balotelli currently faces suggest they still have some way to go.
GEOVANNI: England is far ahead of some of the other countries I have played in, and the main difference is how seriously they take the issue. Spain in particular has had problems with racism. I hope we can help set an example in England to help them take steps to kicking it out.
What do you feel is a fitting punishment for any club/country whose fans are found guilty of racial abuse? Jon Jerome
BADDIEL: Well, I think the first thing is that clubs, or individual country's associations, have to be very strongly encouraged to deal with the problem themselves, rather than imposing the punishment from outside. If the club fails to do so, they should be fined. But it seems to me it's easy enough for clubs, most of whom have a lot of CCTV around the grounds now, to isolate the worst offenders and ban them. And if they aren't doing that, why not? The issue of countries is a bit harder as I don't know if you can fine a country... but certainly I think FIFA should think about withdrawing places in major competitions to any country who's fans are repeatedly heard chanting racist abuse.
ELLIOTT: There's no one answer to this question I'm afraid, and each circumstance is different, but the main constant has to be that the punishments are significant and a legitimate deterrent to further incidents.
As a member of the Jewish community, I have been particularly affected by anti-Semitism in football. Sadly, chants which refer to the Holocaust and the Nazi gas chambers have become increasingly frequent particularly at games involving Tottenham Hotspur (owing to their large Jewish support). Isn't it time that our football stadiums gave stewards the capacity to identify and penalise those who target others for racial abuse? Shouldn't we have a zero tolerance approach which would ban any such offender from every football stadium in the UK (or even in Europe). We need more effective monitoring and harsher punishments. Mark Frazer
BADDIEL: Well, yes I believe this too. With my brother I have written a short film, called The Y-word, for Kick Racism Out of Football, which tries to address this subject. Anti-Semitism is the forgotten racism in football - partly because of the Tottenham thing, where Tottenham fans claim they are chanting the Y-word affectionately - but that fails to address the fact that opposing fans shout it back aggressively, that it often shades into straightforward anti-Semitism that's nothing to do with Tottenham. But most importantly, in a zero tolerance culture, race-hate words can't be used affectionately: consider if a club was chanting the N-word... it's time for it to stop.
HENRY: I have been to Birkenau-Auschwitz three times with England fans (during internationals v Poland in nearby Katowice) and the first time, three fans were drinking beer in the ovens, a truly shocking sight. Since then, there's been a definite improvement in behaviour during visits, which is encouraging, but there is clearly a problem in English football. It doesn't just affect Spurs. Roman Abramovich gets it. Again, there should be a life ban from all grounds for any one found guilty of such chanting.
I hate to bring the subject up, but now John Barnes has gone, there are a severe lack of black coaches in the game. Is this something that should be addressed or is it a question of time for the up-and-coming generation to drift through? Do the panel think this is a huge problem - and do they think black coaches, as has been said in the past, are discriminated against when it comes to getting jobs? Bob Smith
ELLIOTT: Recently, I've read articles suggesting that football follows the path of the NFL in the US, where the 'Rooney Rule' dictates that a minority candidate must be interviewed for every coaching role. There are a number of obstacles standing in the way of this idea being implemented over here, but I definitely feel that something needs to be done. Two permanent black managers from 92 clubs is unacceptable
WINTER: Black managers have to be there on ability alone. Anything else is tokenism. Paul Ince will rise up again as a manager because he has the hunger and ability. The glass ceiling will be broken through, particularly as some of the old-school chairman are leaving the game.
BADDIEL: I think, since there are a lot more black players now then when John Barnes was playing, we should see in the future a lot more black managers, which would be a good thing. I'm sure there is some discrimination - some of it unconscious - but I also think that we shouldn't forgot how quickly managers get sacked, anyway.
GEOVANNI: I know that when I retire I would hope that I would get offered opportunities based on my ability rather than the colour of my skin. It is strange that there are so few black coaches, especially when England has such a diverse culture. Perhaps in the next few years that situation will change, but if not, then a solution should be found.
www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12193_5653704,00.html