Post by QPR Report on Oct 29, 2009 6:48:08 GMT
The Times/Oliver Kay
Awaydays for big clubs often hark back to evenings of a violent era
There is still the odd occasion when you can roll up at a football ground and are left to wonder if you have been transported back to the dark days of the 1970s or early 1980s, when hooliganism was rife.
It is usually a cup-tie, with a lower-division club playing host to one of the Premier League’s elite. It is the kind of day that is meant to evoke the romance of cup competition, illuminating the lives of the townsfolk, but the atmosphere around the ground changes as a vast, boisterous army of away fans emerges, surrounded by a formidable police presence, and the mood darkens from one of anticipation into one more akin to the arrival of the Visigoths.
The Carling Cup fourth-round tie between Barnsley and Manchester United at Oakwell on Tuesday evening, was, with the benefit of hindsight, just the sort of occasion when fear and antagonism fill the air. It had many of the ingredients: a heavy police presence, a 6,000-strong away following in a crowd of just under 23,000 and, according to one United supporter, the presence of “50 or so idiots”, who view such matches as a rare opportunity to get tickets and to recreate at least a semblance of the hooliganism that they missed out on in previous decades.
It is not the kind of incident that the Carling Cup needed so soon after the riot at the second-round tie between West Ham United and Millwall, but, as well as being accessible to young supporters — not to mention young players — the competition is, by virtue of low ticket prices and a reduced uptake from the more established support, accessible to troublemakers, potential or known. In the case of the games at Upton Park and Oakwell, the potential for violence was obvious to those present.
Related Links
Carling Cup could become hooligan magnet
Hooligan an English word, Capello told
There are reasons why United’s explosive game against Liverpool at Anfield on Sunday, which featured two red cards, passed off peacefully and the low-key match at Barnsley two nights later ended with seven arrests (not all of them away fans, it should be pointed out). Ask United supporters for their “lairiest” experiences in recent years and, with the exception of Champions League matches away to Roma and Lille, they hark back to cup-ties away to Derby County, Wolverhampton Wanderers, Southampton and now Barnsley. And they will also say it was a great atmosphere at all of them.
Forget the myth of the “prawn sandwich brigade”. Home Office figures for the 2007-08 season state that United had 248 supporters arrested at domestic league and cup matches — and, with the club proud of the low number of arrests at Old Trafford, home to by far the biggest crowds in British club football, it stands to reason that the majority were on away territory. The next highest was Leeds United (156), followed by Chelsea (106) and Arsenal (105). Even the notorious fans of Cardiff City (90) and Millwall (78) cannot begin to compare.
United fans behave differently on away grounds. If they are to be judged only on the noise they make, there is no better group of away supporters in England. But police forces prefer to judge them on their persistent standing and, presumably, by whatever antisocial behaviour, trivial though it might be by 1970s and 1980s standards, leads to the arrests.
Then there is the content of the chants. Much of it is the kind of original terrace humour that has all but vanished elsewhere and should be applauded, but their continuing obsession with the Heysel and Hillsborough disasters does them no credit. Far less offensive are their persistent chants against the England team, but the police at Oakwell reacted hysterically by trying to confiscate a banner that stated “United>England”.
The hostile nature of the policing, which include herding them to a “compound” nearby before the match, has been cited by many United supporters as a factor in the atmosphere at Barnsley. The question is whether the heavy police presence serves to minimise disturbances or to inflame an air of antagonism. However, when catering staff are being terrorised and missiles being thrown, no relaxation is likely.
The price is right?
In a sign of the Carling Cup’s lesser appeal to fans, to fill their stadiums, all three Premier League clubs in action yesterday made tickets available on general sale with significant reductions compared to their usual matchday prices.
Chelsea:
Carling Cup: £19.50
Premier League: £34-64
Arsenal:
Carling Cup: £10-£20
Premier League: £32.50-£92 Manchester City
Carling Cup: £15-20
Premier League: £28-£46
Based on adult ticket prices
www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/article6894747.ece
The Times Carling Cup in danger of becoming magnet for hooligans
United braced for charges after night of shame
James Ducker
Carling, the sponsor of the League Cup, has condemned the hooliganism at Oakwell on Tuesday night but vowed to stand by the competition.
Seven people were arrested after trouble flared during Manchester United’s 2-0 fourth-round victory against Barnsley, the second time that crowd trouble has marred the competition this season.
The ugly scenes, which included terrified staff being forced to hide in a storeroom as fans ran riot, came within hours of police releasing pictures of 66 people they want to speak to in connection with the violence that blighted West Ham United’s game against Millwall in the competition in August.
A total of 41 people were arrested after the disorder at Upton Park, of which 29 have been charged and ten are on bail, although both clubs have appealed a total of seven FA charges emanating from the game, including a charge of failing to ensure that fans refrained from racist behaviour.
The violence, combined with incidents at Cardiff and Carlisle earlier in the season, have raised concerns that the lower demand for tickets is in danger of turning English football’s second-tier cup competition into a magnet for troublemakers.
Despite the negative publicity, Carling, which is in the first of a three-year deal with the Football League, has insisted that it will honour its agreement to sponsor a competition it has been associated with since 2003, although the brewer did lead the chorus of condemnation yesterday for the outbreak of thuggish behaviour.
Carling said: “Our sponsorships are intended to strengthen communities, by bringing people together for a sociable event. It is very disappointing that a small minority of so-called fans should spoil it for others.”
United also denounced the actions of those fans who went on the rampage, storming the catering outlets in the concourse of the North Stand that housed the 6,000-strong army of visiting supporters and looting tills, while Barnsley, South Yorkshire Police and the FA — who insisted there was “no place for anti-social or violent behaviour in our game” — stepped up their own investigations.
The FA was sifting through the reports it received yesterday from Chris Foy, the referee, and one of its crowd-control advisers, who was present at the match, as United braced themselves for a series of charges. Barnsley were busy assisting the police as they studied CCTV footage in an effort to identify further culprits.
Four United supporters had been arrested as of yesterday, two men, aged 22 and 24, for public-order offences, a 26-year-old man for theft and a 32-year-old man for throwing a missile on to the pitch. In a separate incident, three Barnsley fans were arrested for invading the pitch towards the end of the game.
The trouble is understood to have flared after some United fans reacted angrily to the Barnsley catering staff’s refusal to serve them alcohol at half-time. Eight caterers were trapped inside a food kiosk and had to barricade themselves in a storeroom for 25 minutes to escape the violence as fans broke in, stealing money and food and causing thousands of pounds’ worth of damage.
Police reacted by lining up with dogs in front of United supporters during the second half and were subsequently pelted with missiles by a minority. One officer suffered a minor facial injury in the process.
Don Rowing, a Barnsley director, is concerned for the future safety of the club’s catering staff and said that the club would now have to install grilles in all bar areas in the section for visiting fans.
“Last night I was disappointed, today I’m very angry,” Rowing said yesterday. “We have pre-match briefings with the police, stewards and clubs before every match and look closely at every risk assessment, but this incident came out of the blue. How do you legislate for the behaviour of idiots?
“What concerns me is not so much the damage, but the way these thugs treated our young staff. Manchester United, in general, have very wellbehaved fans, but there was a minority group hellbent on causing trouble because they could not have what they wanted. We did not allow the sale of alcohol at half-time and they couldn’t accept our decision. It’s mob rule and we have no option other than to protect our staff in the future behind iron bars.”
Jan Framp, area manager for Lindley Catering, the company that ran the kiosks, said that her staff had been left “extremely frightened” by the ordeal. “They kicked the doors in and then ransacked the beer bar,” she said. “They ripped the water boilers off the counters and trashed everything.”
United do not usually get such large allocations for away matches, although the violence is thought to have been mainly the work of a small hardcore mob of between 50 and 100. Only for league matches away to Wigan Athletic and Blackburn Rovers do the club receive ticket allocations of a similar size and games against both of those clubs have passed without incident in recent years.
One United fan present, a solicitor who travels home and away but who asked not to be named, claimed that some of those involved in the skirmishes did not appear to be regular followers of the team and were “intent only on creating trouble”. Others claimed on United forums yesterday that fans entered the ground without tickets.
Tickets were allocated after a ballot of members, according to United, and did not go on open sale. Given the loyalty system in place at Old Trafford, however, season-ticket holders and regular match-day supporters may have applied for tickets but sold them on to others.
Indeed, given that ticket prices are generally lower and not in as great demand for Carling Cup matches as for games in the Barclays Premier League and the Champions League, it is not uncommon to see fans who do not regularly attend United matches at such ties. Clubs’ policies also vary about including Carling Cup matches within season-ticket deals, which can also lead to more tickets available for general sale.
United insist that they will ban any guilty parties for life. They said: “The thugs who spoil the reputations of the team and fellow supporters have no place at Manchester United.”
The latest outbreak of Carling Cup violence is the last thing that the competition needs having regained significance in recent years after several seasons in which it was undermined by top clubs fielding weakened sides.
In an interview unrelated to the hooliganism, Sir Alex Ferguson, the United manager mounted a strong defence of the Carling Cup. He said: “I won’t have it lightly dismissed, because over the years the Carling Cup has enabled me to put some of the younger players into the team alongside more established stars, to see how they react and blend.”
Catalogue of disorder mars competition
Violence has taken place at several Carling Cup ties this season, writes Tom Dart.
August 25 A man was stabbed and there was serious disorder inside and outside Upton Park when West Ham United hosted Millwall. A total of 41 people were arrested, of which 29 have been charged.
August 26 Twelve fans were arrested when police were attacked at Cardiff Central station after a tie between Cardiff City and Bristol Rovers.
September 22 Nine people were arrested, eight from Hampshire, following disturbances in Carlisle after Carlisle United’s match against Portsmouth. There were also three arrests outside Elland Road for public-order offences after Leeds United hosted Liverpool.
• Serious incidents in past years including the death of an Aston Villa steward as Villa and Queens Park Rangers fans fought in 2004.
• A year earlier there were about 100 arrests before and after Tottenham Hotspur played West Ham at White Hart Lane
www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/manchester_united/article6894592.ece
Awaydays for big clubs often hark back to evenings of a violent era
There is still the odd occasion when you can roll up at a football ground and are left to wonder if you have been transported back to the dark days of the 1970s or early 1980s, when hooliganism was rife.
It is usually a cup-tie, with a lower-division club playing host to one of the Premier League’s elite. It is the kind of day that is meant to evoke the romance of cup competition, illuminating the lives of the townsfolk, but the atmosphere around the ground changes as a vast, boisterous army of away fans emerges, surrounded by a formidable police presence, and the mood darkens from one of anticipation into one more akin to the arrival of the Visigoths.
The Carling Cup fourth-round tie between Barnsley and Manchester United at Oakwell on Tuesday evening, was, with the benefit of hindsight, just the sort of occasion when fear and antagonism fill the air. It had many of the ingredients: a heavy police presence, a 6,000-strong away following in a crowd of just under 23,000 and, according to one United supporter, the presence of “50 or so idiots”, who view such matches as a rare opportunity to get tickets and to recreate at least a semblance of the hooliganism that they missed out on in previous decades.
It is not the kind of incident that the Carling Cup needed so soon after the riot at the second-round tie between West Ham United and Millwall, but, as well as being accessible to young supporters — not to mention young players — the competition is, by virtue of low ticket prices and a reduced uptake from the more established support, accessible to troublemakers, potential or known. In the case of the games at Upton Park and Oakwell, the potential for violence was obvious to those present.
Related Links
Carling Cup could become hooligan magnet
Hooligan an English word, Capello told
There are reasons why United’s explosive game against Liverpool at Anfield on Sunday, which featured two red cards, passed off peacefully and the low-key match at Barnsley two nights later ended with seven arrests (not all of them away fans, it should be pointed out). Ask United supporters for their “lairiest” experiences in recent years and, with the exception of Champions League matches away to Roma and Lille, they hark back to cup-ties away to Derby County, Wolverhampton Wanderers, Southampton and now Barnsley. And they will also say it was a great atmosphere at all of them.
Forget the myth of the “prawn sandwich brigade”. Home Office figures for the 2007-08 season state that United had 248 supporters arrested at domestic league and cup matches — and, with the club proud of the low number of arrests at Old Trafford, home to by far the biggest crowds in British club football, it stands to reason that the majority were on away territory. The next highest was Leeds United (156), followed by Chelsea (106) and Arsenal (105). Even the notorious fans of Cardiff City (90) and Millwall (78) cannot begin to compare.
United fans behave differently on away grounds. If they are to be judged only on the noise they make, there is no better group of away supporters in England. But police forces prefer to judge them on their persistent standing and, presumably, by whatever antisocial behaviour, trivial though it might be by 1970s and 1980s standards, leads to the arrests.
Then there is the content of the chants. Much of it is the kind of original terrace humour that has all but vanished elsewhere and should be applauded, but their continuing obsession with the Heysel and Hillsborough disasters does them no credit. Far less offensive are their persistent chants against the England team, but the police at Oakwell reacted hysterically by trying to confiscate a banner that stated “United>England”.
The hostile nature of the policing, which include herding them to a “compound” nearby before the match, has been cited by many United supporters as a factor in the atmosphere at Barnsley. The question is whether the heavy police presence serves to minimise disturbances or to inflame an air of antagonism. However, when catering staff are being terrorised and missiles being thrown, no relaxation is likely.
The price is right?
In a sign of the Carling Cup’s lesser appeal to fans, to fill their stadiums, all three Premier League clubs in action yesterday made tickets available on general sale with significant reductions compared to their usual matchday prices.
Chelsea:
Carling Cup: £19.50
Premier League: £34-64
Arsenal:
Carling Cup: £10-£20
Premier League: £32.50-£92 Manchester City
Carling Cup: £15-20
Premier League: £28-£46
Based on adult ticket prices
www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/article6894747.ece
The Times Carling Cup in danger of becoming magnet for hooligans
United braced for charges after night of shame
James Ducker
Carling, the sponsor of the League Cup, has condemned the hooliganism at Oakwell on Tuesday night but vowed to stand by the competition.
Seven people were arrested after trouble flared during Manchester United’s 2-0 fourth-round victory against Barnsley, the second time that crowd trouble has marred the competition this season.
The ugly scenes, which included terrified staff being forced to hide in a storeroom as fans ran riot, came within hours of police releasing pictures of 66 people they want to speak to in connection with the violence that blighted West Ham United’s game against Millwall in the competition in August.
A total of 41 people were arrested after the disorder at Upton Park, of which 29 have been charged and ten are on bail, although both clubs have appealed a total of seven FA charges emanating from the game, including a charge of failing to ensure that fans refrained from racist behaviour.
The violence, combined with incidents at Cardiff and Carlisle earlier in the season, have raised concerns that the lower demand for tickets is in danger of turning English football’s second-tier cup competition into a magnet for troublemakers.
Despite the negative publicity, Carling, which is in the first of a three-year deal with the Football League, has insisted that it will honour its agreement to sponsor a competition it has been associated with since 2003, although the brewer did lead the chorus of condemnation yesterday for the outbreak of thuggish behaviour.
Carling said: “Our sponsorships are intended to strengthen communities, by bringing people together for a sociable event. It is very disappointing that a small minority of so-called fans should spoil it for others.”
United also denounced the actions of those fans who went on the rampage, storming the catering outlets in the concourse of the North Stand that housed the 6,000-strong army of visiting supporters and looting tills, while Barnsley, South Yorkshire Police and the FA — who insisted there was “no place for anti-social or violent behaviour in our game” — stepped up their own investigations.
The FA was sifting through the reports it received yesterday from Chris Foy, the referee, and one of its crowd-control advisers, who was present at the match, as United braced themselves for a series of charges. Barnsley were busy assisting the police as they studied CCTV footage in an effort to identify further culprits.
Four United supporters had been arrested as of yesterday, two men, aged 22 and 24, for public-order offences, a 26-year-old man for theft and a 32-year-old man for throwing a missile on to the pitch. In a separate incident, three Barnsley fans were arrested for invading the pitch towards the end of the game.
The trouble is understood to have flared after some United fans reacted angrily to the Barnsley catering staff’s refusal to serve them alcohol at half-time. Eight caterers were trapped inside a food kiosk and had to barricade themselves in a storeroom for 25 minutes to escape the violence as fans broke in, stealing money and food and causing thousands of pounds’ worth of damage.
Police reacted by lining up with dogs in front of United supporters during the second half and were subsequently pelted with missiles by a minority. One officer suffered a minor facial injury in the process.
Don Rowing, a Barnsley director, is concerned for the future safety of the club’s catering staff and said that the club would now have to install grilles in all bar areas in the section for visiting fans.
“Last night I was disappointed, today I’m very angry,” Rowing said yesterday. “We have pre-match briefings with the police, stewards and clubs before every match and look closely at every risk assessment, but this incident came out of the blue. How do you legislate for the behaviour of idiots?
“What concerns me is not so much the damage, but the way these thugs treated our young staff. Manchester United, in general, have very wellbehaved fans, but there was a minority group hellbent on causing trouble because they could not have what they wanted. We did not allow the sale of alcohol at half-time and they couldn’t accept our decision. It’s mob rule and we have no option other than to protect our staff in the future behind iron bars.”
Jan Framp, area manager for Lindley Catering, the company that ran the kiosks, said that her staff had been left “extremely frightened” by the ordeal. “They kicked the doors in and then ransacked the beer bar,” she said. “They ripped the water boilers off the counters and trashed everything.”
United do not usually get such large allocations for away matches, although the violence is thought to have been mainly the work of a small hardcore mob of between 50 and 100. Only for league matches away to Wigan Athletic and Blackburn Rovers do the club receive ticket allocations of a similar size and games against both of those clubs have passed without incident in recent years.
One United fan present, a solicitor who travels home and away but who asked not to be named, claimed that some of those involved in the skirmishes did not appear to be regular followers of the team and were “intent only on creating trouble”. Others claimed on United forums yesterday that fans entered the ground without tickets.
Tickets were allocated after a ballot of members, according to United, and did not go on open sale. Given the loyalty system in place at Old Trafford, however, season-ticket holders and regular match-day supporters may have applied for tickets but sold them on to others.
Indeed, given that ticket prices are generally lower and not in as great demand for Carling Cup matches as for games in the Barclays Premier League and the Champions League, it is not uncommon to see fans who do not regularly attend United matches at such ties. Clubs’ policies also vary about including Carling Cup matches within season-ticket deals, which can also lead to more tickets available for general sale.
United insist that they will ban any guilty parties for life. They said: “The thugs who spoil the reputations of the team and fellow supporters have no place at Manchester United.”
The latest outbreak of Carling Cup violence is the last thing that the competition needs having regained significance in recent years after several seasons in which it was undermined by top clubs fielding weakened sides.
In an interview unrelated to the hooliganism, Sir Alex Ferguson, the United manager mounted a strong defence of the Carling Cup. He said: “I won’t have it lightly dismissed, because over the years the Carling Cup has enabled me to put some of the younger players into the team alongside more established stars, to see how they react and blend.”
Catalogue of disorder mars competition
Violence has taken place at several Carling Cup ties this season, writes Tom Dart.
August 25 A man was stabbed and there was serious disorder inside and outside Upton Park when West Ham United hosted Millwall. A total of 41 people were arrested, of which 29 have been charged.
August 26 Twelve fans were arrested when police were attacked at Cardiff Central station after a tie between Cardiff City and Bristol Rovers.
September 22 Nine people were arrested, eight from Hampshire, following disturbances in Carlisle after Carlisle United’s match against Portsmouth. There were also three arrests outside Elland Road for public-order offences after Leeds United hosted Liverpool.
• Serious incidents in past years including the death of an Aston Villa steward as Villa and Queens Park Rangers fans fought in 2004.
• A year earlier there were about 100 arrests before and after Tottenham Hotspur played West Ham at White Hart Lane
www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/manchester_united/article6894592.ece
