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Post by Macmoish on May 7, 2012 9:14:07 GMT
I love the photos. And I love the fact that Bushman has the programme and the background. Great stuff from both of you So what was it like back then in terms of crowd swearing. And in terms of crowd reaction to the other team: Abuse, or whatever?
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Post by gramps on May 7, 2012 9:49:34 GMT
I love the photos. And I love the fact that Bushman has the programme and the background. Great stuff from both of you So what was it like back then in terms of crowd swearing. And in terms of crowd reaction to the other team: Abuse, or whatever? Thanks Mac. A few more pics to come. Nothing exciting but will 'doctor' them and put them on for what they are worth. Swearing? To my recollection, nothing like today. Of course a crowd of men will always swear a bit in such situations - a s*d or bu***r or even an occasional bas***d but nothing mega in respect of anything beginning with F or C. Certainly my old man would never have allowed that sort of language in front of his kids. Crowd reaction? Generally not a mega problem in respect of the opposition. Of course we would have a go occasionally but never really in a violent way (although in all cases this excludes Millwall who were always intent on causing aggro and knew they would get it back, of course!). Supporters were all mixed in together in those days - no segregation - and there was seldom any problem although there were the occasional fights after the game. Mainly light hearted banter during the match. I remember an away game against Ipswich where my dad and I had been having banter with some of their supporters during the game. At the end of the match we shook hands with them and said "Cheers lads - see you next time round". A different world then.
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ronski
Gerry Francis
I have some old QPR pictures how do you post them on this site.
Posts: 61
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Post by ronski on May 7, 2012 12:50:26 GMT
The picture shows Reg Allen making a save from a Leeds United forward on December 17th 1949. This was a 1-1 draw and our goal was scored by inside right Tommy Best, his first for the club in only his second game.
Tommy Best was the first black player to play for the Rangers, signed from Cardiff only with us for one season.
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Post by rousdonhoops on May 7, 2012 15:55:18 GMT
interesting to see no Batman Close, where I was brought up, or Mackay House the block outside the SA Road stand
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Post by cpr on May 7, 2012 18:01:11 GMT
Can't believe you're wearing long trousers John! Were they your Sunday best? Short trousers weren't the order of the day? Gret stuff, love it, terrific photos. ;D
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Post by Zamoraaaah on May 7, 2012 18:22:09 GMT
Great thread.
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Post by klr on May 7, 2012 18:58:49 GMT
Young people dressed with a lot more decorum in those days.
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Post by cpr on May 7, 2012 19:00:53 GMT
KLR, you can't see it but his strides are hanging from his arse, trust me!
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Post by gramps on May 7, 2012 19:39:25 GMT
KLR, you can't see it but his strides are hanging from his arse, trust me! Cheeky sod! Seriously though, there was a more down to earth reason that I went into long trousers early on. At the age of five I was hit by a car and nearly lost first my life, then my leg. As a result my left leg was fractured in seven places, half the muscle ripped out and left a mangled mess. As a kid I was very self-conscious about it - hence the long trousers as soon as I could persuade mum to buy me some. Apart from the considerable pain I still get from the injuries it doesn't bother me these days. I also had major head injuries so that would explain a lot of things, wouldn't it? (Thought I would say it before anybody else does.) Incidentally, CPR, I noticed from the Sky highlights of yesterday's game that at one stage the advertising boards had something flashing up about "To subscribe £5 - text "CPR"" Why are you asking people to send you money?
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Post by cpr on May 7, 2012 19:48:09 GMT
KLR, you can't see it but his strides are hanging from his arse, trust me! Cheeky sod! Seriously though, there was a more down to earth reason that I went into long trousers early on. At the age of five I was hit by a car and nearly lost first my life, then my leg. As a result my left leg was fractured in seven places, half the muscle ripped out and left a mangled mess. As a kid I was very self-conscious about it - hence the long trousers as soon as I could persuade mum to by me some. Apart from the considerable pain I still get from the injuries it doesn't bother me these days. I also had major head injuries so that would explain a lot of things, wouldn't it? (Thought I would say it before anybody else does.) Incidentally, CPR, I noticed from the Sky highlights of yesterday's game that at one stage the advertising boards had something flashing up about "To subscribe £5 - text "CPR"" Why are you asking people to send you money? Keeping Rangers alive single-handedly John Being hit by a car must have been quite rare in them days mate, not trying to be funny but you must have been almost unique! You are right, the head bit does explain a lot! I won't tell you about my near death experience on Highlever Road!
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manta
Gordon Jago
Posts: 945
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Post by manta on May 7, 2012 22:09:45 GMT
Nice photos. I love looking at these old b & w pictures of the ground years ago.
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Post by gramps on May 8, 2012 8:47:10 GMT
Another pic on a foggy day! This was that same Hull City match - action in the Hull goalmouth.
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Post by The Scooter on May 8, 2012 9:23:22 GMT
Gramps - thank you so much for sharing these (also Bushman) - we were never well represented in the mainstream (or even the local) press until 1966 so these pictures and archives are vital in preserving our tradition and educating the youngsters! Great to see.
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Post by Lonegunmen on May 8, 2012 11:33:43 GMT
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Post by gramps on May 8, 2012 14:44:16 GMT
;D ;D Nice one Lone. I can get a bigger choir than that, though, with seven grandchildren, five great-grandchildren and another two great grandsons due the first week in August! Didn't dare book our trip to the States before they arrived otherwise 'er indoors would be giving me stick.
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Post by scubahoop on May 8, 2012 20:52:59 GMT
As others have said, many thanks for posting these pictures Gramps. They are incredibly evocative of a different time. I imagine the crowds were pretty good for the Second Divison years, late 40s early 50s. How did the later 50s/early 60s compare? Did it feel like a big decline in the club's fortunes or did it seem more like we had come back down to our natural level again? Also, what chants did the crowd have in those days? What are the main similarities and differences between the 40s and now at football? If anyone could answer these questions I would be extremely grateful. Cheers, Ian.
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Post by gramps on May 8, 2012 21:17:57 GMT
Think I can probably answer most of those questions for you Ian. Watch this space and I'll give you my perspective tomorrow.
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Post by scubahoop on May 9, 2012 6:41:28 GMT
Cheers Gramps, will look forward to that.
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Post by gramps on May 9, 2012 9:34:02 GMT
As others have said, many thanks for posting these pictures Gramps. They are incredibly evocative of a different time. I imagine the crowds were pretty good for the Second Divison years, late 40s early 50s. How did the later 50s/early 60s compare? Did it feel like a big decline in the club's fortunes or did it seem more like we had come back down to our natural level again? Also, what chants did the crowd have in those days? What are the main similarities and differences between the 40s and now at football? If anyone could answer these questions I would be extremely grateful. Cheers, Ian. Crowds: Well, yes, we did get good attendances, especially between '48 and '50 when high 20,000 was not unusual (bearing in mind that it was mainly standing in those days. Attendances dipped a bit in '51-'52 when we were relegated and really sagged when we were back in Division Three. They didn't pick up again seriously until the mid-'60s and early 70s when the increase in gates was dramatically higher due to the influx of "100% loyal fans who claimed to have supported the club all their lives through thick and thin" (I don't think!). I don't think there was a feeling of "coming down to our natural level". Those of us who followed the club through bad times and good always believed we deserved better and, of course, even then the expression "well we are QPR" was still going down when we suffered the usual frustrations. The same expression is still being used and I doubt there is a more frustrating club to support anywhere. Strangely, that is one of the weird attractions of the club. Chants: Don't recall that we really had that many. There was, of course the famous "Rodneeeeeee" chant - oh, and I must not forget that bl**dy bass drum that appeared home and away. BOOM BOOM - BOOM BOOM BOOM - BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM - RANGERS! incessantly; drove me bonkers. As I recall there was a phrase used at the time "Rally round the drum". I don't recall any songs in the early days as these seemed to appear much later. London knows a bit about that era and his memory may be better than mine on this. I have always been a cheerer and clapper - never gone much for 'songs' which are usually totally lacking in melody and singing ability. The differences: Well, on the playing side it was a totally different game. No 3-3-4, 4-4-2, or whatever other formation you care to mention. It was simply 2 backs, 3 half-backs and 5 forwards and just about everybody played that way. Remember too that virtually all the players at every club were 'home grown'; it was rare to find a name that you would have difficulty in pronouncing. Players were tough - far more so than these days. A hard shoulder charge was legitimate and if the goalkeeper was silly enough to stand on or near his line with the ball in his hands then he could be shouldered into the net and you would get a goal. Players who went down got up again quickly and got on with the game without rolling around on the ground with an agonised look on their face. Attempts to con the ref did occasionally happen but were extremely rare as was 'diving'. There were, of course, no yellow or red cards in those days. Bookings were rare but did happen of course. If a player was sent off it was such an event that it would likely make the newspaper headlines the following day. The advent of continental (and further afield) players changed all that. One of my favourite players of the old days was Jimmy Langley, a brilliant full back who we signed from Fulham. He played over a hundred games for us in two years and to the best of my knowledge was never in his entire career booked or sent off (I am open to correction on that) and deservedly became known as "Gentleman Jim". If he challenged a player and that player went down, Jim would always help him to his feet and check that he was OK. From what Mark Lazarus tells me, Jim was a bit of a father figure to the younger players. A good example of this is the picture of him with an arm round Rodney's shoulder when he was overcome with emotion at the end of the League Cup Final that we won. Another thing about those days was that players were far more approachable and enjoyed meeting and chatting with the fans. A lot more togetherness - infinitely more than today when most players consider themselves in a totally different elite world to those of us who pay their inflated salaries. Another point there is that players all those years ago were paid a pittance and had to have a second employment string to their bow. There were also a number of part-time professionals around who could not rely on football to give them a living wage. As I mention in my book, as a young lad I recall talking to players and getting autographs after the match before they got on their push-bike to go home. The equipment was a bit different too. Boots were tough leather and came up to cover the ankles with these really long laces which went under and round the boots to keep them secure. The good thing about this was that injuries like the frequent current day meta-tarsals were virtually unheard of. The match balls were also leather and had a bladder inside which was pumped up hard before the lace secured the opening. That ball was a lot heavier than the lightweight "balloons" used now. If you headed the ball and caught the lace on your forehead it hurt like hell as did a wet ball - remembering that the leather absorbed water on a rainy day and became extremely heavy. I once headed a ball in the days when I played park football and got a nasty cut and severe headache as a result! A final word about referees. Back in the 40s/50s/60s they were of a very high quality, got paid very little and did the job for the love of the game. I know because I was a referee (only minor stuff) for some years and did it because I love the game and I got paid ten shillings (50p) a game. I once ran the line in an Isthmian League game and for that temporary promotion I seem to recall that I got £1. Wow! Of course, refs from time to time made bad decisions but not nearly on the scale they do now. This is one aspect of the game that has deteriorated dreadfully and needs addressing, in my opinion. There was not nearly as much swearing from the crowd in those days (something I mentioned earlier) but it was not unusual to hear the occasional strong language when a bad decision was made; things like "The referee is nasty" and such like! ;D I hope this covers the points you have raised, Ian although I accept that others may well have a different perspective. I am always happy to answer questions like this or even to discuss aspects of the game in those days by phone if anybody ever wants to ring me - a few already have and it always develops into a pleasurable chat. I long for those days but know they will never return. I enjoy football now but it is totally different to my youth. In my opinion the game does not even begin to approach, in so very many ways, what it was when I started going to LR but I guess I am just going to have to live with my memories. What has spoilt it for me? Continental style playing, inflated salaries and the growing gulf between those who play for and administer the club and us, the paying supporters. It is now more of a big business than a sporting game. For all this, I always have been and will to the day I die be a QPR supporter no matter what happens.
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Post by gramps on May 9, 2012 9:34:44 GMT
PS Apologies if that last post rambled on a bit too much.
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Post by RoryTheRanger on May 9, 2012 9:42:14 GMT
That was great Gramps!!
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Post by scubahoop on May 9, 2012 10:04:58 GMT
Many thanks for answering all of my questions so fully gramps. As you say, football has changed massively in the course of the last 60 years and often not for the better. It's a cliche I know but the game really was much more innocent then. Even in the last 35 years of my memory there has been incredible change. I know a lot of people who have become disilusioned with what the game has become, so it's very pleasing to know that you still enjoy it. I must get hold of a copy of your book - do they sell it in the club shop? If not, I will have a look on Amazon.
I think that the history of football is a big part of the social history of this country, so many thanks for your huge contribution to our knowledge of this gramps.
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Post by gramps on May 9, 2012 10:05:41 GMT
Here's another one for the collection. It shows my idol, Reg Allen making a save in the match v Coventry on New Year's Eve 1949. We won the game 2-0 with goals from Billy McEwan and Tommy Best. Team (2-3-5): Reg Allen; George Powell, Bill Heath; Cyril Hatton, Reg Chapman, Des Farrow; George Wardle, Billy McEwan, Frank Neary, Tommy Best, Johnny Pattison.
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Post by gramps on May 9, 2012 10:10:07 GMT
Many thanks for answering all of my questions so fully gramps. As you say, football has changed massively in the course of the last 60 years and often not for the better. It's a cliche I know but the game really was much more innocent then. Even in the last 35 years of my memory there has been incredible change. I know a lot of people who have become disilusioned with what the game has become, so it's very pleasing to know that you still enjoy it. I must get hold of a copy of your book - do they sell it in the club shop? If not, I will have a look on Amazon. I think that the history of football is a big part of the social history of this country, so many thanks for your huge contribution to our knowledge of this gramps. Not in the club shop - they didn't want to know. Only on Amazon as an e-book. Go to the book website which is: www.qprtheolddays.com You can get full ordering details there. If there is any problem with this, telephone me - my number is on the site - and we can make alternative arrangements. I aim to get copies to those who order (in the UK) within 24 hours of the order being placed, subject to Royal Mail of course.
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Post by Bushman on May 9, 2012 10:54:05 GMT
Here's another one for the collection. It shows my idol, Reg Allen making a save in the match v Coventry on New Year's Eve 1949. We won the game 2-0 with goals from Billy McEwan and Tommy Best. Team (2-3-5): Reg Allen; George Powell, Bill Heath; Cyril Hatton, Reg Chapman, Des Farrow; George Wardle, Billy McEwan, Frank Neary, Tommy Best, Johnny Pattison.
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Post by Lonegunmen on May 9, 2012 11:11:23 GMT
A fantastic number 11 for QPR back then.
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Post by gramps on May 9, 2012 11:26:52 GMT
Bushy does it again. Many thanks.
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Post by gramps on May 10, 2012 9:36:37 GMT
Another pic from the Coventry City game. Once again it's Reg Allen making a save.
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Post by Bushman on May 10, 2012 11:19:56 GMT
From the same season. Spurs won 2-0 in front of a crowd of 29,771 at Loftus Rd.
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Post by superckat on May 10, 2012 11:48:25 GMT
I did say I wouldn't post for a while. But f**k me. What a great thread. Mac you were right. This would cheer me up. Great pictures and programmes guys. Whatever happened to the old 2-3-5 formations. Why don't we play that any more. Perhaps we should adopt it for Sunday.
Look how crammed in the crowd are in that Spurs match nearly 30000. Also don't forget It's not blue and white hoops. It's Royal blue and white hoops.
Brilliant stuff Gramps and Bushman
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