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Post by Macmoish on Nov 3, 2010 15:33:20 GMT
It doesn't matter which board. And it doesn't matter who made the posts. But there's a thread on one of our "sister" QPR Mesageboard where the contention is made that Gianni Paladini is a genuine, deep-seated QPR Fan...And that got me to thinking. And to being puzzled.
Frankly that is something I strongly question or doubt. And to be honest, it's something I'm surprised to read anyone truly believe.
Of course the matter of whether or not he's a fan is actually completely irrelevant to whether he was or was not a success as Chairman or Sporting Director. (Just as the desire that a QPR manager or Player be a QPR fan is not too relevant: It's nice. But it's scarcely the be all and end all). I of course don't think he was too great. Others think "He Saved The Club" - That's a different debate.
But back to the matter of Paladini as fan... Because he's watching a game and wants his team of the day to win and is demonstrable about that: Not sufficient. I'm sure he may be more demonstrable than me. I doubt he's a bigger QPR fan.
The true test of a fan is not whether they're involved with the club now (as a paid employee) and want the club to do well. Of that I have no doubt he does. Just as does Neil Warnock or Ian Taylor or various other club employees.
But I doubt in years to come when they've moved on, most of them would subsequently characterize themselves as QPR Fans.
And I doubt when Paladini has moved on (hopefully sooner rather than later), that he will be a deep-seated fan - someone who sacrifices for his club. Rather than be a recipient of such sacrifices.
It's an interesting debate. But of course I admit, of no relevance to his continued QPR future.
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Post by Zamoraaaah on Nov 3, 2010 15:45:10 GMT
A Port Vale fan who only took an interest in us when it appeared he could make some money by 'investing'.
The rest of us support the club without a financial incentive. Well most of us...
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Post by blockhead on Nov 3, 2010 15:45:45 GMT
I can see the point you are making, to open it up a little, are former players fans?
you would think that Les Ferdinand was a spurs fan and Marsh a Man city fan as that is what the bucks are telling them to be expert on when on the radio or telly.
If QPR ever go big time again, then watch them be experts on the rangers yet again.
I would like to think that I would only ever comment on the team I love the most and not be a mercenary.
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Post by Markqpr on Nov 3, 2010 17:10:16 GMT
you would think that Les Ferdinand was a spurs fan Les is a Spurs fan. He's been one since he was a kid growing up in Shepherds Bush! His reason being that at the time QPR didn't look towards local kids for talent so they turned their backs on the club and supported others. The truth being he's a glamour fan who didn't fancy rough and ready QPR, given that he is a bit of a tart.
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finney
Dave Mangnall
Posts: 175
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Post by finney on Nov 3, 2010 18:11:20 GMT
Nope but if i made the amount of money he has had off the club over the years and a big bounus if we get to the prem then i would love that club as well.
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ingham
Dave Sexton
Posts: 1,896
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Post by ingham on Nov 3, 2010 18:18:56 GMT
We're unique, and it isn't only money, it applies to talent too.
Given a choice between any of them and the best person for the Club, we'd choose the best person. We have no vested interest in them, they can't afford to be so detached about it.
They'll opt to take the money even if they aren't the best person, even if they don't represent the best deal.
And if they ARE the best, but the money is better elsewhere, they'll leave. How many of our heroes stayed when better money, bigger clubs, or the prospect of more success beckoned?
Nothing wrong with that. Except that, as this thread shows, it is important not to confuse the two. An investor is an investor because of his investment. Whether he is or isn't a supporter is irrelevant. We must assume that he is motivated by the money he is likely to make out of the Club.
Even a supporter - a genuine one - who plays for the Club, isn't playing because he's a supporter, but because he is a footballer. He arrives and departs for that reason, not for any other.
We can afford to take the 'moral high ground' on the Club's behalf, they can't. But our detachment where money, profit or other advantage is concerned also insulates the Club from our individual egos in a way it doesn't in the case of directors, for example.
They can give full rein to their own personal pathologies through the holding company they control - and the results are usually sadly apparent.
We simply can't. There are too many of us, and our sheer numbers, and the fact that we aren't an organisation, controlled by this or that individual or group, makes us only effective in the way we should be effective.
Collectively, as supporters. To me, that is what the Club is. Not an organisation with membership cards, and votes which can be manipulated by a determined few. But something to which we all belong, and owe allegiance.
That is far more compelling, and far more difficult to handle. Directors, investors and shareholders usually finesse themselves out of the Club in a comparatively short time, having created utter confusion, even in their own areas of interest.
But we've been around for 120-odd years. Still the same position, still the same attitudes. Still pouring money into the Club - the only people who do - and still with our heads in the real world and our feet on the ground.
If that could be said about anyone else in the game apart from supporters, I'd be very surprised.
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Post by klr on Nov 3, 2010 18:38:39 GMT
When people get on a train, they dont want it to crash.
The above is obviously literal.
But people on the "Gravy Train" dont want that particular train to crash once they have stepped aboard either.
That can apply to anything; The EU, The BBC, Quangocrats, any of these "Gravy Train" institutions.
To say Gianni Paladini is a QPR fan is disgusting & insulting to peoples intelligence, hang your heads.......
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finney
Dave Mangnall
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Post by finney on Nov 3, 2010 19:16:12 GMT
Now i see it is being said i need to back this 500k thing up now i asked it as a question.... But the reason i asked that question was he said on the radio on the time of the takeover that he would Guarantee that he would get a five year deal and 500k when we get to the premier.
Now perhaps ask the man himself why he said that on the radio.
See i never trust a word he says after i heard him say in court on the stand that he never swore in his life and that was a load of shite
Now what about as well when asked about the 140k interest free loan and if was paying it back now some where in the studio with him and can they recall what he said?
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bowles
Dave Sexton
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Post by bowles on Nov 3, 2010 19:40:04 GMT
he is not a Q.P.R fan, he is a very naughty boy!!!!!
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Post by Macmoish on Nov 3, 2010 19:42:21 GMT
... he is a very naughty boy!!!!! - with a very nice "allowance"
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finney
Dave Mangnall
Posts: 175
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Post by finney on Nov 3, 2010 19:42:27 GMT
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Post by cpr on Nov 3, 2010 20:20:39 GMT
Now i see it is being said i need to back this 500k thing up now i asked it as a question.... But the reason i asked that question was he said on the radio on the time of the takeover that he would Guarantee that he would get a five year deal and 500k when we get to the premier. Now perhaps ask the man himself why he said that on the radio. See i never trust a word he says after i heard him say in court on the stand that he never swore in his life and that was a load of shite Now what about as well when asked about the 140k interest free loan and if was paying it back now some where in the studio with him and can they recall what he said? Funnily enough, I noticed the question mark in that particular post. Isn't it a sad indictment on our eduction system when there appears to be so many people incapable of comprehending the use of various punctuation, exclamation etc marks in our rich and wonderful language.
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Post by Macmoish on Nov 3, 2010 20:22:57 GMT
Well as a great man once said ""'You F***ing bastard I am going to kill you. I am going to kill you, you F***ing bastard... where are you, you F***ing... F***ing hell where are you"
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finney
Dave Mangnall
Posts: 175
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Post by finney on Nov 3, 2010 21:05:59 GMT
See to me this thing over will he or wont he get monies if and when we get to the prem is weird the other things he has done in the past are much worse and all i did was ask a question to try and clear an issue he said on the radio. Bit like i would also like to know if he ever got players in for Port Vale as he promised on the radio at the time his takeover fell apart then.
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Post by Lonegunmen on Nov 3, 2010 22:42:43 GMT
When is a question not a question? Only when Finney asks it even with a question mark! DOH, some people who cant read.
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Post by Macmoish on Nov 3, 2010 22:52:01 GMT
And again it's one issue: What's Paladini has done in his time at QPR - Something there are clearly differences about. (And something I've obviously my views clear about on quite a few occasions)..
And then just the simple point: Is Paladini a genuine QPR Fan? Which again is NOT does he want us to do while he's involved with us. I have no reason to doubt that of course he does.
But a year or five or ten years from now, when he's no longer involved with QPR (from my lips to G-d's ear!): Is Gianni going to be a passionate, concerned man about QPR. And that I doubt. Not a fan.
Of course it's ironic, the whole issue of what constitutes a QPR Fan...Since others have raised that about others - who mistakenly believed they were QPR Fans. But that's yet another matter
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Post by Lonegunmen on Nov 3, 2010 23:14:28 GMT
True QPR fans are those whom attend 100% home and away games, full of cheap snidey remarks, smear or attempt to smear anyone whom doesn't believe the bible according to the G-man. (God - for those that can read this site yet continue to say they cannot)
Seriously, is Paladini a true fan? I doubt it. No disrepect to him but most "professionals" in his position in clubs these days are not really fans, they are in it for the money and a career. Look at the guy that left Manure to go to Chelsea?
Personalities aside, as a senior member of staff he too is open for scrutinisation just as Briatore, Mittals & Ecclestone. Just as Chris Wright, Bill Power and any other senior club officials before him. In Wright he may have been a fan whom got piss poor advice from the earlier forms of self servers, In Power we had our first "fan" chairman since the late Jim Gregory.
Sadly the days of Chairmen being true and devoted fans to their club are gone. I'm sure all the American and Asian & Middle Eastern owners have long since followed the various English clubs they now own since they were kids.
That some fans make the effort to question the club and it's decisions is a good thing, it keeps it almost honest. Those whom are against such questioning are either blind or really dont know what they are on about. Of course asking questions does not mean that one doesn't acknowledge that the team is doing well or wishing ill fortune on the team, but it does mean, that they care more about the club as a whole, not just the team. And those that are blind, well, carry on being blind. Ignorance is not an excuse.
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tonyr1
Dave Mangnall
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Post by tonyr1 on Nov 3, 2010 23:37:18 GMT
I heard Paladini and Power get on really well. We are all supporters in my book. Whether you live abroad, support the club home/away or come into QPR later in life. No defining age to support the superhoops.
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finney
Dave Mangnall
Posts: 175
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Post by finney on Nov 4, 2010 14:51:44 GMT
I heard Paladini and Power get on really well. We are all supporters in my book. Whether you live abroad, support the club home/away or come into QPR later in life. No defining age to support the superhoops. Power and Paladini are friends and have been for a long time.
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finney
Dave Mangnall
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Post by finney on Nov 4, 2010 14:58:16 GMT
When is a question not a question? Only when Finney asks it even with a question mark! DOH, some people who cant read. Thing is why are some more worried about this being true than the fact that we are about by the looks of it to lose our ground for half it's value to people who are members of the board ? (note question mark) Then again someone close to Paladini went on the web and put stories about how i wanted to merge QPR with Glentoran and play i would guess in the part time Irish league as i wanted the games played in Belfast (the fact i live in london bypassed) and the way i was going to do that was to become an agent and get Qpr to buy a player from Linfield see all makes sense, now you may ask what kind of idiot would think up that story well i will give you a clue first letter in his name is P. And thought we won the league cup in 68
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Post by Macmoish on Nov 4, 2010 15:05:20 GMT
I was actually at that 1968 League Cup Final. So I can confirm from first hand experience: QPR were not playing that day! Your "Paladini getting a bonus" throw away line elicited a very strange reaction/response. Especially given that there was a serious matter being considered: What was happening with the future of Loftus Road and what our "owners" are doing.
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Post by Macmoish on Nov 4, 2010 18:12:12 GMT
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Post by Macmoish on Nov 5, 2010 9:53:05 GMT
Thinking back, I guess it's like Stephen Paladini at the time of the attempted Port Vale takeover was revealed to be a Port Vale fan. (And presumably remains one?)
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Post by Lonegunmen on Nov 5, 2010 10:49:27 GMT
As I said... Is Paladini a true fan? I doubt it. No disrepect to him but most "professionals" in his position in clubs these days are not really fans, they are in it for the money and a career. Look at the guy that left Manure to go to Chelsea?
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finney
Dave Mangnall
Posts: 175
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Post by finney on Nov 5, 2010 16:56:26 GMT
Thinking back, I guess it's like Stephen Paladini at the time of the attempted Port Vale takeover was revealed to be a Port Vale fan. (And presumably remains one?) Stephen Paladini is a B'ham city fan well that is what he told me to my face anyway.
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Post by Macmoish on Nov 3, 2012 7:21:26 GMT
Bump....Two years ago today, a discussion on this board...
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Post by canadaranger on Nov 3, 2012 8:17:18 GMT
Wow.
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Post by Roller on Nov 3, 2012 9:59:47 GMT
I watched the Four Year plan again last night (my wife was out). I've always regarded Paladini as a self serving parasite, but his joy and tears after the “no points deduction” announcement look genuine to me. Maybe Amit was right, his heart was in the right place?
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Post by cpr on Nov 3, 2012 10:56:11 GMT
Funny that Roller, it remnded me of that Italian commentator/bookie bloke, totally OTT. Anyway, all the lies notwitstanding, he's a bluenose, is he not?
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Post by Roller on Nov 3, 2012 11:13:04 GMT
Funny that Roller, it reminded me of that Italian commentator/bookie bloke, totally OTT. His an emotional fella, typical Italian. I still well up when I see it. I have to admit that I was wondering if his reaction was more relief, maybe Briatore's hit man was stood down. Anyway, all the lies notwitstanding, he's a bluenose, is he not? Glasgow Rangers! I didn't know that. I should have started reading this forum years ago.....
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